Am I being unreasonable? Cally Tour Issue Paradym 3D dispute.

[crsmith1234]

1 minute ago, golffeen007 said:

I feel like I’m the twilight zone. 
 

That request plainly shows you @crsmith1234 are requesting a $200 refund??? Why the heck would you do that for a cracked unusable driver head?

 

when it would be sent in I would get a retail TD replacement head which is worth about 200 less than I paid for the tour head.  Or a full refund is fine then he can deal with this.  I have work to do so I am out everyone have a great day 

[toc]

6 minutes ago, crsmith1234 said:

 you threw a fit like my 6 year old. Then escalated it to PayPal so let PayPal decide then.  

So the seller initiated a PayPal dispute?  

[golffeen007]

4 minutes ago, crsmith1234 said:

when it would be sent in I would get a retail TD replacement head which is worth about 200 less than I paid for the tour head.  Or a full refund is fine then he can deal with this.  I have work to do so I am out everyone have a great day 

It’d be a cold day in hell if I asked for a partial refund on a cracked head I felt was 0 responsibility of my on doing. I know we’ve made great deals in the past , but this one stinks a bit. 

[third-times-a-charm]

1 hour ago, golffeen007 said:

Being I am one that got a caved TC Mavrik head replaced through my buddies shop with a Mavrik LS head, I know it happens. I didn’t buy it from CPO. They just said they can’t replace it with a TC head and was I fine with that. I wasn’t even expecting it to be replaced. 

Also got my buddies TC head replaced with a cracked face. Not sure where you’re getting the info they DONT and never will unless from CPO. 

Yes the assumption is that youll get a TC head back which is not the case. If you send in a TC head youll get a F or V serial back. So I guess there is an asterisk to the statement.

[puresurfr]

Ive dealt with CRsmith many times in the past and never have had an issue with him, and his feedback speaks volumes about him.  

 

 

 Summary :

 

*it appears that Chris is asking for a $200 price adjustment because the head is cracked .  He paid $520 for the tour issued head and is reasonably confident that Callaway will replace it with a stock retail head which has a value of about $350 on the BST market.

 

**the seller nocalhack says the scratch/crack was not there when he sold it but is willing to take the club back for $300 , this would amount to roughly a $220 restocking fee for hitting the club and possibly damaging it.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by puresurfr

[bcflyguy1]

That whole exchange went exactly the way I thought it would. Thanks again, @NoCalHack

[ilikegolf26]

4 minutes ago, puresurfr said:

Ive dealt with CRsmith many times in the past and never have had an issue with him, and his feedback speaks volumes about him.  

 

 

 Summary :

 

*it appears that Chris is asking for a $200 price adjustment because the head is cracked .  He paid $520 for the tour issued head and is reasonably confident that Callaway will replace it with a stock retail head which has a value of about $350 on the BST market.

 

**the seller nocalhack says the scratch/crack was not there when he sold it but is willing to take the club back for $300 , this would amount to roughly a $220 restocking fee for hitting the club and possibly damaging it.

 

 

I think you should add the fact that 18 days went by between receiving the head and asking the seller for the $200 back…..

[NoCalHack]

15 minutes ago, puresurfr said:

Ive dealt with CRsmith many times in the past and never have had an issue with him, and his feedback speaks volumes about him.  

 

 

 Summary :

 

*it appears that Chris is asking for a $200 price adjustment because the head is cracked .  He paid $520 for the tour issued head and is reasonably confident that Callaway will replace it with a stock retail head which has a value of about $350 on the BST market.

 

**the seller nocalhack says the scratch/crack was not there when he sold it but is willing to take the club back for $300 , this would amount to roughly a $220 restocking fee for hitting the club and possibly damaging it.

 

 

 

 

No.  He never mentioned he would send it back to Callaway.  This was his response to people rightfully asking why he's asking for a partial refund on a cracked head.  Tell you what.  If Chris can prove to me the club is cracked, then we can talk.  But I don't understand why he didn't tell me "hey, the club is cracked.  I'm sending it back to Callaway.  I only hit it 5 times and it must be a defective head.  I'm going to take a hit on this one."    I also don't know why he didn't mention this when I offered him $300 for the cracked driver back.  So by your logic, he wants to resell a new replacement Callaway head for $350 so he won't take the $300 for this one.  This assumes he knows that Callaway would even warrantee the product.  Come on.  This makes no sense.  He is going through all this trouble to try and stiff me out of $200.  Which is what makes it such a head scratcher to me.  And he won't willingly get a dime from me.

 

I don't charge "restocking fees".  I pointed this out to indicate he knows it's not cracked.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by NoCalHack

[jacob7071]

2 hours ago, crsmith1234 said:

when it would be sent in I would get a retail TD replacement head which is worth about 200 less than I paid for the tour head.  Or a full refund is fine then he can deal with this.  I have work to do so I am out everyone have a great day 

So you bought a clubhead that either (i) was cracked when you received it, or (ii) cracked within your first 5 swings.  

 

If it was cracked when you received it, why did you hit it at all?

 

If it cracked only after you hit it, why is it the seller's fault?  

[player922000]

The buyer's actions here make absolutely no sense to me. If the head is in fact cracked and was cracked when he received it, the ONLY logical thing to do would be to request a full refund. Add to that the fact that it took over TWO weeks for the issue to be brought up. Then we add in the scratches that were clearly not there in the OG ad. All of this is extremely shady and I completely understand why the seller would not be inclined to issue a full refund, much less the stupid AF partial refund the buyer asked for. If he issued a partial refund he would be eating $200 and not even get the club head back, in what universe does that make any sense at all? 

[aypeeone]

The fact that the buyer didn’t report the “issue” for 18 days makes me inclined to think it happened in his possession and not the sellers. 
 

Idk in what world any seller would refund a buyer after that amount of time for a used item. What happened in days 1-17 of ownership of the head from the buyer? 
 

OP, wish you the best in this situation and hoping that PayPal sides with you. 

[Pudgelewis]

20 hours ago, player922000 said:

The buyer's actions here make absolutely no sense to me. If the head is in fact cracked and was cracked when he received it, the ONLY logical thing to do would be to request a full refund. Add to that the fact that it took over TWO weeks for the issue to be brought up. Then we add in the scratches that were clearly not there in the OG ad. All of this is extremely shady and I completely understand why the seller would not be inclined to issue a full refund, much less the stupid AF partial refund the buyer asked for. If he issued a partial refund he would be eating $200 and not even get the club head back, in what universe does that make any sense at all? 

 

At the same time, if it doesn't make sense for the seller to eat the $200, it doesn't make sense for the buyer to send it back for $300 and eat the $220. The buyer's reasoning in asking for the $200 in order to compensate for the likelihood of Callaway sending him a retail head as a replacement at the very least makes sense and is a logical conclusion if you felt you got something that was damaged when you received it after you hit it. I'll admit the initial comment that he was requesting a partial refund didn't make any sense.

 

While the 18 days does muddy the issue, anyone who has too much of a problem with it must avoid eBay at all costs, because 18 days in eBay's world is nothing.  If the head was in fact damaged, and it happened after only say a few rounds, I think most of us here would probably inquire with the seller to see what could be done, even though it's unlikely the seller would cover it if they knew it was fine when they sent it. And I could see the $200 offer being the buyer's way of saying this isn't my fault, but since it's been 18 days I'll mess with getting it rectified, but not all at my expense.

 

It's a crappy situation all around, but the buyer's extensive feedback doesn't exactly mean nothing. And the seller being so attacking in his responses and just assuming the buyer is attempting to scam him is a little off-putting (see EDIT below). Just my initial observations from the available info, lol. 

 

EDIT: After reading it again, it seems the seller took issue with the buyer saying he felt he was trying to dump a defective head, so I can kind of get the responses after that.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Pudgelewis

[NoCalHack]

2 minutes ago, Pudgelewis said:

 

At the same time, if it doesn't make sense for the seller to eat the $200, it doesn't make sense for the buyer to send it back for $300 and eat the $220. The buyer's reasoning in asking for the $200 in order to compensate for the likelihood of Callaway sending him a retail head as a replacement at the very least makes sense and is a logical conclusion if you felt you got something that was damaged when you received it after you hit it. I'll admit the initial comment that he was requesting a partial refund didn't make any sense.

 

While the 18 days does muddy the issue, anyone who has too much of a problem with it must avoid eBay at all costs, because 18 days in eBay's world is nothing.  If the head was in fact damaged, and it happened after only say a few rounds, I think most of us here would probably inquire with the seller to see what could be done, even though it's unlikely the seller would cover it if they knew it was fine when they sent it. And I could see the $200 offer being the buyer's way of saying this isn't my fault, but since it's been 18 days I'll mess with getting it rectified, but not all at my expense.

 

It's a crappy situation all around, but the buyer's extensive feedback doesn't exactly mean nothing. And the seller being so attacking in his responses and just assuming the buyer is attempting to scam him is a little off-putting. Just my initial observations from the available info, lol. 

 

 

I'm sorry you find it off-putting.   I don't like being scammed.   I think he's basically filing a bogus claim to get me to just settle it.   Like someone who files a frivolous lawsuit hoping it gets settled.  I'm calling him out for this.  Maybe he does this repeatedly and wins a couple because someone at PayPal who is reviewing cases makes a mistake.   And btw, he has not retracted his claim, which he can do at anytime.

 

re: the $300 offer.   This exchange for a retail head is a convenient way for him to get out of why he only asked for $200.  He never mentioned any such thing to me.   I don't believe it's cracked. I made the offer to buy it back under the assumption that a cracked club is worthless.  I certainly didn't crack it, and if I believe him that he did indeed hit it 5 times, then I highly doubt he cracked it also.  When I made the offer, I didn't think Callaway would possibly warrantee a tour-issue club.  I was trying to call him out on his $200 claim.   If you are claiming he's trying to recoup some of the loss from a cracked club by sending it back to Callaway, I don't believe that was his intention at all.  He never mentioned it to me once.  If I'm guessing, his intention is to recoup $200 on a club he doesn't like or maybe to recoup $200 on a club he knows that he himself cracked.  

 

I will stand by this.  If the buyer can prove to me that the club is cracked, and Callaway is replacing a club of that serial number with a new retail club because it is cracked as a result of a defective head, then I will pay him $200.  I want to see an invoice and proof that they deemed the club with that serial # defective.  Not walking into PGATSS and having them hand him a new head.   If that's the case, I would be eating $200.

 

 

You make it sound like he's could be an innocent consumer who bought a defective head.  If this happened, he would not have acted in the way he did.  

If I bought a cracked head, I'd be pissed about it.  I'd call the seller immediately and ask for a full refund immediately.  I'd provide evidence of a crack, which is not all that hard to find.  I wouldn't take a picture of a scratch and say I don't hit it 300 yards. Maybe I'd take a video of me hitting the club side by side another and take launch monitor numbers and show the ball speed is down X MPH.  Maybe I'd find a real crack on the face and take a picture of it.  Also, I'd probably explain why I got around to hitting the club 18 days later.  But none of this happened.

 

These are facts

- Shows scratches on the club face that aren't there when I sent them to him.  He sends pictures to PayPal as part of a dispute and indicates I misrepresented the product. Indicates scratches are evidence of a crack.  And indicates that the only reason those scratches aren't on the original pics are because I didn't clear the face.  Both are bogus and clear from the pictures. 

- Waits 18 days to mention anything.  He asked the club to be shipped by the weekend of July 8, and it got there July 7.  Then claims he hit it for the first time 3 days ago.   Sure. We all spend $520 on a new driver, can't wait to get it be the weekend, then finally get around to hitting it 18 days later and hit 5 balls with it.  His exact claim was something like "I hit 5 balls and I didn't want to hit more because I was worried the club would break".   

- Claims I escalated the situation.  He filed the PayPal claim, which he 100% knows is bogus.  I was completely civil and prompt in my responses to him, but no.  I never offered to pay him anything.  

 

So sorry to off-put you.

 

 

[Dpavs]

This is perhaps totally off topic -

 

Any maybe this is just morbid curiosity on my part at this point, but was the head hot melted at any point?

I had purchased a head that had been and the hot melt shook loose and re-positioned itself on the face.

After that the face was deader than a door nail and driving distance went in the tank.

[NoCalHack]

1 minute ago, Dpavs said:

This is perhaps totally off topic -

 

Any maybe this is just morbid curiosity on my part at this point, but was the head hot melted at any point?

I had purchased a head that had been and the hot melt shook loose and re-positioned itself on the face.

After that the face was deader than a door nail and driving distance went in the tank.

 

If it was, it was hot melted by the Callaway tour van. I’m guessing not because it had 2 nine gram weights on it.  It was built with a ventus red at 45.25 or so. 

[golffeen007]

23 minutes ago, Dpavs said:

This is perhaps totally off topic -

 

Any maybe this is just morbid curiosity on my part at this point, but was the head hot melted at any point?

I had purchased a head that had been and the hot melt shook loose and re-positioned itself on the face.

After that the face was deader than a door nail and driving distance went in the tank.

Sounds like you might have gotten some cheap rat glue , hot melt doesn't just break away , but stays pliable in the head. It could melt under very intense heat from a torch to be repositioned , but it doesn't shake loose and it wouldn't cause the kind of distance loss you're referring to , by reducing the trampoline effect. 

[Dpavs]

23 minutes ago, golffeen007 said:

Sounds like you might have gotten some cheap rat glue , hot melt doesn't just break away , but stays pliable in the head. It could melt under very intense heat from a torch to be repositioned , but it doesn't shake loose and it wouldn't cause the kind of distance loss you're referring to , by reducing the trampoline effect. 

 

Could be... it certainly was a factor though. It was a certified preowned head from a manufacturer so it was a non-issue for me other than than the hassle of returning it.

[ws6]

Maybe I missed it, but - Has the buyer checked to see if the head is cracked?

[crsmith1234]

1 minute ago, ws6 said:

Maybe I missed it, but - Has the buyer checked to see if the head is cracked?

After hitting the club 5 times and it going no where something is wrong with the head.  I am not hitting it more to watch it implode or fly apart.   

[Pudgelewis]

1 hour ago, NoCalHack said:

 

 

I'm sorry you find it off-putting.   I don't like being scammed.   I think he's basically filing a bogus claim to get me to just settle it.   Like someone who files a frivolous lawsuit hoping it gets settled.  I'm calling him out for this.  Maybe he does this repeatedly and wins a couple because someone at PayPal who is reviewing cases makes a mistake.   And btw, he has not retracted his claim, which he can do at anytime.

 

re: the $300 offer.   This exchange for a retail head is a convenient way for him to get out of why he only asked for $200.  He never mentioned any such thing to me.   I don't believe it's cracked. I made the offer to buy it back under the assumption that a cracked club is worthless.  I certainly didn't crack it, and if I believe him that he did indeed hit it 5 times, then I highly doubt he cracked it also.  When I made the offer, I didn't think Callaway would possibly warrantee a tour-issue club.  I was trying to call him out on his $200 claim.   If you are claiming he's trying to recoup some of the loss from a cracked club by sending it back to Callaway, I don't believe that was his intention at all.  He never mentioned it to me once.  If I'm guessing, his intention is to recoup $200 on a club he doesn't like or maybe to recoup $200 on a club he knows that he himself cracked.  

 

I will stand by this.  If the buyer can prove to me that the club is cracked, and Callaway is replacing a club of that serial number with a new retail club because it is cracked as a result of a defective head, then I will pay him $200.  I want to see an invoice and proof that they deemed the club with that serial # defective.  Not walking into PGATSS and having them hand him a new head.   If that's the case, I would be eating $200.

 

 

You make it sound like he's could be an innocent consumer who bought a defective head.  If this happened, he would not have acted in the way he did.  

If I bought a cracked head, I'd be pissed about it.  I'd call the seller immediately and ask for a full refund immediately.  I'd provide evidence of a crack, which is not all that hard to find.  I wouldn't take a picture of a scratch and say I don't hit it 300 yards. Maybe I'd take a video of me hitting the club side by side another and take launch monitor numbers and show the ball speed is down X MPH.  Maybe I'd find a real crack on the face and take a picture of it.  Also, I'd probably explain why I got around to hitting the club 18 days later.  But none of this happened.

 

These are facts

- Shows scratches on the club face that aren't there when I sent them to him.  He sends pictures to PayPal as part of a dispute and indicates I misrepresented the product. Indicates scratches are evidence of a crack.  And indicates that the only reason those scratches aren't on the original pics are because I didn't clear the face.  Both are bogus and clear from the pictures. 

- Waits 18 days to mention anything.  He asked the club to be shipped by the weekend of July 8, and it got there July 7.  Then claims he hit it for the first time 3 days ago.   Sure. We all spend $520 on a new driver, can't wait to get it be the weekend, then finally get around to hitting it 18 days later and hit 5 balls with it.  His exact claim was something like "I hit 5 balls and I didn't want to hit more because I was worried the club would break".   

- Claims I escalated the situation.  He filed the PayPal claim, which he 100% knows is bogus.  I was completely civil and prompt in my responses to him, but no.  I never offered to pay him anything.  

 

So sorry to off-put you.

 

 

 

Not sure how long it took you to post that reply, but I edited the original reply regarding "being off-putting" just a couple minutes after posting it which isn't in your reply.

 

It IS a bit difficult to get any firm conclusion from the pics in the ad, IMO.  Cleaning the tee marks off would in fact have helped, so not sure why we're holding that part against him. It may not have been noticeable before he bought it, but it at least maybe could've been definitive looking back knowing where they're at in his pics.

 

And, yes, I absolutely do believe he COULD be an innocent consumer in all this which doesn't equate to you being a scammer, either. I would think his feedback would at least get him the allowance that MAYBE he's not scamming you for $200. Maybe that's just the issue I'm having is that you both appear to be automatically assuming the worst of each other from the get-go.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Pudgelewis

[ws6]

Not that hard to test it to see if it’s cracked. 
 

A video showing bubbles from a crack would have prevented this train wreck thread. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by ws6

[NoCalHack]

22 minutes ago, crsmith1234 said:

After hitting the club 5 times and it going no where something is wrong with the head.  I am not hitting it more to watch it implode or fly apart.   

 

do these look like cracks to anyone?  Tell me. 
 

and it’s pretty clear that they were not on the club I sent. The area is clear in the pics. Granted my pics aren’t that high res but there is nothing there. 
 

 

[NoCalHack]

25 minutes ago, Pudgelewis said:

 

Not sure how long it took you to post that reply, but I edited the original reply regarding "being off-putting" just a couple minutes after posting it which isn't in your reply.

 

It IS a bit difficult to get any firm conclusion from the pics in the ad, IMO.  Cleaning the tee marks off would in fact have helped, so not sure why we're holding that part against him. It may not have been noticeable before he bought it, but it at least maybe could've been definitive looking back knowing where they're at in his pics.

 

And, yes, I absolutely do believe he COULD be an innocent consumer in all this which doesn't equate to you being a scammer, either. I would think his feedback would at least get him the allowance that MAYBE he's not scamming you for $200. Maybe that's just the issue I'm having is that you both appear to be automatically assuming the worst of each other from the get-go.

 

yeah. Maybe he cracked it. It would suck for him if it did.

 

but fabricating a bogus complaint with bogus photos  to get me to pay for his misfortune is in no way innocent. Sorry. 

[lipw87]

7 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

 

do these look like cracks to anyone?  Tell me. 
 

and it’s pretty clear that they were not on the club I sent. The area is clear in the pics. Granted my pics aren’t that high res but there is nothing there. 
 

 

his pictures are high res and under direct light, yours arent.

[NoCalHack]

1 minute ago, lipw87 said:

his pictures are high res and under direct light, yours arent.

 

Your point about the image quality is fair. I blew up my images and looked in that exact spot. I don’t see anything. But even so. Do those look like cracks?

[aypeeone]

To me the biggest thing is still the timing. Buyer requested to have the head specifically by the weekend of 7/8 to what I can assume use the driver that weekend. There is no correspondence until 18 days later.
 

He could’ve played 6 rounds of golf and hit 1000 balls in that time and cracked/scratched the face so how can this in any way fall on the seller?
 

I think if the buyer reached out that same weekend of 7/8 with these concerns, things would’ve played out a lot differently. 

[Darom87]

260 is still a pretty good drive, no?  Or is it a sin for tour issue heads to go no less than 300?  

 

"Me hit ball far... this go not far."

 

Haha, just josh'in!

[NoCalHack]

1 minute ago, aypeeone said:

To me the biggest thing is still the timing. Buyer requested to have the head specifically by the weekend of 7/8 to what I can assume use the driver that weekend. There is no correspondence until 18 days later.
 

He could’ve played 6 rounds of golf and hit 1000 balls in that time and cracked/scratched the face so how can this in any way fall on the seller?
 

I think if the buyer reached out that same weekend of 7/8 with these concerns, things would’ve played out a lot differently. 

 

100%. 

And I would never in a million years misrepresent anything I sell. I’d rather just keep something or give it away rather that try to misrepresent and item that won’t satisfy a buyer to make a few extra bucks. 
 

[tilasan]

4 minutes ago, aypeeone said:

To me the biggest thing is still the timing. Buyer requested to have the head specifically by the weekend of 7/8 to what I can assume use the driver that weekend. There is no correspondence until 18 days later.
 

He could’ve played 6 rounds of golf and hit 1000 balls in that time and cracked/scratched the face so how can this in any way fall on the seller?
 

I think if the buyer reached out that same weekend of 7/8 with these concerns, things would’ve played out a lot differently. 

And he says he only hit it 5 times.

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

I keep reading that the club was fine when it was sent, but you can not definitively say that there were no scratches when it was sold, because the pictures are too pixilated to discern anything when you zoom in, plus the face is caked in tee marks.

 

Sad all of this is over $200.