I have a lot of club questions about new irons, please help me out before I do something stupid

[loki993]

Ive played golf on and off for the better part of 30 years. A lot of that time its been a handful of rounds a year, a couple outings, a couple rounds here and there.  There have been time's in my life where Ive played more and times where Ive played less. The past 2 years Ive been working on trying to play a lot more and get legitimately better. My swing has always been just ok and Ive struggled on and off, mostly on , with poor contact and thins and tops, toe shots mostly. Im working on that, getting some lessons and working it out. 

 

I need to get on a monitor I know and I will, but right now Im estimating my swing speed to be anywhere around 90 to 95 MPH. I can hit my driver anywhere from 220 to 240 which I think puts me in that speed range. 

 

I am currently probably a 20 HDC when Im hitting it OK. My goal is to get into the single digits. I think I can do it with a bit of work, practice and a few lessons. My chipping is decent, could always be better, and I'm a good putter. I really need better approach shots and decent tee shots. Solving my contact issues will help a lot with that obviously and I can go from there. 

 

So all that background, I want a set of new irons, Ive never had a new set in my life and I want to treat myself to something nice. Something nice is expensive and if I get a new set I want to be able to keep them for a while so Im thinking of getting maybe what I think I would want to be playing with in 2 or 3 years instead of what I probably should be using now. 

 

Im probably in a full game improvement iron right now. I used a set of hand me down Eye 2s for many years and currently Im gaming a set of Raptures I got off of Ebay. Im not necessarily a Ping "person" just for whatever reason that's what's found its way into my bag. 

 

This isn't really a question of brand but more game improvement vs players distance and shaft flex. 

 

What advantage do I get going to a players distance iron vs game improvement?

 

What are the signs that I shouldn't be using game improvement irons anymore?

 

P790s, HM Pros, T200s for example, all of these talk about being very forgiving so is the game improvement vs players distance irons line being majorly blurred at this point to the point where the difference may not even matter all that much? Smaller heads and less offset is that it anymore? How much of a difference does that really make?

I hear tons of people talk about how forgiving a P790 is for example but when I look at it I feel like I have no business playing that with my handicap even though I love the look and feel of these irons. Being over the top of something like a p790 or similar it feels good, they look great. None of that matters if I cant hit them though. 

 

When do people usually transition to a players distance irons and why? 

                     I hear "workability" but what if I'm not particularly interested in that right now? When does not having workability become an issue?

                     Feel?

 

If I should be using a game improvement iron how much am I punishing myself using a players distance iron.

 

What about shaft flex? I use regular right now but with at least some shafts I'm right on the line for stiff. Also as I get better I would like to add some swing speed so when would not having a stiff enough shafts become an issue with irons specifically. If its even an issue at all. 

 

 

If you read this far thanks, sorry for the book. 

 

If you didn't the TL:DR of it is Im a 20 HDC working on getting better. I'm thinking about getting a set of player distance irons with stiff shafts because I think that's what I will need in the next 2 years, maybe even much less, as I get better. How badly would I be screwing myself and now much will they make me hate the game if I did that?

 

[nitram]

Millions of aspiring golfers have honed their craft with PING EYE 2's, and to date, they are the most played iron on the planet. Learn how to score better with them and then treat yourself.

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

I fully agree with the above.

 

Get yourself to a point where you feel like you could try any club on the fitter's shelves and decide from a wider variety.

Swing speed is largely a function of fundamental swing mechanics, and nearly anybody can improve them to learn how to swing faster. It usually starts when you realize that swinging fast and swinging hard are not the same thing..... 😄 😄

 

So yeah, get your game in order and hone your skills. You'll know when you're ready.

[RogerinNewZealand]

Upgrade Now....

Nitram is old school...

I,m far more modern.S58🤗

 

CONTACT/IMPACT.

Start with feet together and 20% effort...

Then say feet 6 inches apart...ball centre ish... 7 iron..whatever comfy with.

 

Waste of money new clubs as you are.

Mizuno mp 63 64 53 54

Titleist cb or ap2 714/6/8

Get solid strike first/ stable core/ with a lovely relaxed swing eg 70% to a high finish (balanced)and rediscover Golf.

 

[Kai Slater]

I agree with working on your swing first, then maybe changing irons later on.  But, ultimately, you should just play whatever you like and forget about all the pre-conceived ideas about who should play whatever clubs, etc...just play whatever looks and feels good to you.  As Nitram said above, a generation of golfers learned on the Eye2 irons (I also have a set  of those, black dot, that I still use, great irons!!) and scores of golfers of all levels played using old blades.  I think it comes down to your individual swing technique.

 

A guy I used to play with years ago would routinely shoot under par from the blue tees (around 6400 yards) using generic "Dunlop"  cavity back irons from Walmart, never caring about spending money on higher end clubs; but his swing was so on-point and he just didn't see what newer, "nicer" clubs would do for him.  That's just an example, but I'd say just get whatever you like and will give you confidence standing over the ball.  There are so many good choices out there these days.

[Colin Walker]

You only need to change a club if (1) you can’t use it, (2) you find it restrictive, (3) no longer fits a gap/purpose or (4) you like spending money on new toys. If you’re mishitting raptures then work on your swing first. After that then research, literally hundreds if not thousands of decent shaft/head combos over the past decade, and try things that suite your swing, eye, game, and budget.

[WristySwing]

9 hours ago, loki993 said:

Ive played golf on and off for the better part of 30 years. A lot of that time its been a handful of rounds a year, a couple outings, a couple rounds here and there.  There have been time's in my life where Ive played more and times where Ive played less. The past 2 years Ive been working on trying to play a lot more and get legitimately better. My swing has always been just ok and Ive struggled on and off, mostly on , with poor contact and thins and tops, toe shots mostly. Im working on that, getting some lessons and working it out. 

 

I need to get on a monitor I know and I will, but right now Im estimating my swing speed to be anywhere around 90 to 95 MPH. I can hit my driver anywhere from 220 to 240 which I think puts me in that speed range. 

 

I am currently probably a 20 HDC when Im hitting it OK. My goal is to get into the single digits. I think I can do it with a bit of work, practice and a few lessons. My chipping is decent, could always be better, and I'm a good putter. I really need better approach shots and decent tee shots. Solving my contact issues will help a lot with that obviously and I can go from there. 

 

So all that background, I want a set of new irons, Ive never had a new set in my life and I want to treat myself to something nice. Something nice is expensive and if I get a new set I want to be able to keep them for a while so Im thinking of getting maybe what I think I would want to be playing with in 2 or 3 years instead of what I probably should be using now. 

 

Im probably in a full game improvement iron right now. I used a set of hand me down Eye 2s for many years and currently Im gaming a set of Raptures I got off of Ebay. Im not necessarily a Ping "person" just for whatever reason that's what's found its way into my bag. 

 

This isn't really a question of brand but more game improvement vs players distance and shaft flex. 

 

What advantage do I get going to a players distance iron vs game improvement?

 

What are the signs that I shouldn't be using game improvement irons anymore?

 

P790s, HM Pros, T200s for example, all of these talk about being very forgiving so is the game improvement vs players distance irons line being majorly blurred at this point to the point where the difference may not even matter all that much? Smaller heads and less offset is that it anymore? How much of a difference does that really make?

I hear tons of people talk about how forgiving a P790 is for example but when I look at it I feel like I have no business playing that with my handicap even though I love the look and feel of these irons. Being over the top of something like a p790 or similar it feels good, they look great. None of that matters if I cant hit them though. 

 

When do people usually transition to a players distance irons and why? 

                     I hear "workability" but what if I'm not particularly interested in that right now? When does not having workability become an issue?

                     Feel?

 

If I should be using a game improvement iron how much am I punishing myself using a players distance iron.

 

What about shaft flex? I use regular right now but with at least some shafts I'm right on the line for stiff. Also as I get better I would like to add some swing speed so when would not having a stiff enough shafts become an issue with irons specifically. If its even an issue at all. 

 

 

If you read this far thanks, sorry for the book. 

 

If you didn't the TL:DR of it is Im a 20 HDC working on getting better. I'm thinking about getting a set of player distance irons with stiff shafts because I think that's what I will need in the next 2 years, maybe even much less, as I get better. How badly would I be screwing myself and now much will they make me hate the game if I did that?

 

 

I think a lot of people are glossing over the fact you already have a decent set of irons.  Play the Raptures for now to at least give you some forgiveness.  The Eye2's are good but they are also 40 years old at this point.  At least with the Raptures you are getting some technology from this century, they have a high MOI (resistance to twisting) a titanium, flexing face for more ball speed, and so on.  Those will hold you over while you get lessons. You probably won't need many to at least get you in a spot where you feel halfway confident that going for a fitting is going to be a decent exercise (i.e. you have a somewhat repeatable swing, the tops/thins/shanks are becoming less and less frequent).  From there, you let the fitter do their job.  Your only job is to provide feedback on what you are feeling during the fitting and whether you like that feeling or not. 

 

You have a lot of questions and that's good, but a lot of these questions are not that relevant to you.  You shouldn't worry yourself about offset and smaller heads.  You're a 20 handicap.  The offset and larger heads are there to help get the face back to square more easily, launch the ball higher, and twist less during the swing. People will typically transition to a player's distance iron when they are a bit more shallow but still need the help of a GI iron, or they want something with a bit more aesthetically pleasing looks.  That's really about the only difference here.  Again, just to hammer it home, don't get bogged down in the technicals.  You need to play what works for you not what the internet says will work for you.  None of us have seen you hit a ball.  When you go into the fitting, go in with an open mind about what clubs will work for you.  Shaft flex will sort itself out there but generally anything > 80mph with a 6/7i is typically a stiff flex and then 80 <> 70 is a regular.  However, again, this too is fluid and not very cut and dry, which is why its important to just be a blank canvas when you walk in.  

 

The only two things you need to concern yourself with when you are at your fitting are 1) a hard and fast realistic budget you want to stick to.  Any good fitter will be able to find a club in your price point that works for you.  Will it be THE PERFECT CLUB?  Unlikely as those rarely exist and if it does, it might not be within the budget, so just be aware of that and make sure you have a good plan B in case plan A is out of your price range.  2) Have a two-way conversation with the fitter.  Don't just let them tell you what they want to see, tell them your goals, and what feels good and doesn't.  However, this comes with a caveat.  Don't get too starry-eyed about your future there is a chance you may not get there.  Play the clubs that fit you now and you can always reassess as needed in 5 years or whenever if you get there.

[Hat Trick]

First, golf is an expensive sport we play.  I believe what many have already said above.  Over time as we improve and age, I think it's important that some money be set each year for upgrades to what's in our bags.  I personally have a budget for equipment needs each year.  This year I purchased a new driver.  A year ago irons and two years ago hybrids.  Wedges are up next year.  Now I'm retired and play over 100 rounds a year so switching out certain clubs every 4-6 years is just what I decided to do.  When I turned 60 two years ago I just felt it was important to be refitted and yes some flexes went from stiff to regular.  

 

So be realistic based on how much you play and how much better you improve and you will know when you need to upgrade your clubs.  Having the right tools as we improve and age is just part of being a golfer.

[philly2kuk]

Sounds like you’d benefit from lessons first then changing clubs later. If you just want to change clubs go for it, but one of the best players in our club uses titleist t300 off scratch. His reason why? Because when he mishits them they still go the same distance instead of being short like his old blades. He had regular sessions with his coach instead.

[cmatthews77]

I’ll weigh in a little different… sometimes people just want a new set of clubs and then start practicing especially if they’re getting back into it. Here are my iron opinions and they’re just that my opinions…

1. Iron forgiveness to a point becomes overrated. Manufacturers make these gigantic “max forgiveness” irons but to me at a point they become harder to hit. They don’t get through the turf well, soles too big, too much offset. Just too much. 
 

2. I think the sweet spot for forgiveness is something that keeps ball speed up if you hit it a couple of grooves low or out on the toe. If you’re struggling with the low point of your swing and hitting shots fat then there isn’t an iron model that can fix that. I mean at some point a 9-iron is a 9-iron. 
 

3. Irons like P790 from Taylor Made; Callaway Apex, Titleist T200, Srixon ZX5 and whatever the Ping equivalent is are all sure to be great choices and plenty forgiving! Just test or get the ones you like the best for whatever reason and go for it. They’re all pretty similar. 
 

4. With sub 100mph swing speed with driver the stronger lofts will help you somewhat. Irons like above mentioned can help maintain proper gapping. 
 

5. Don’t buy “the whole set” like they have off the rack. The stronger lofted irons are still often sold 4-W but you may be MUCH better off not carrying past 6i. If the loft on the 7i is 30 degrees or less then I wouldn’t get the 5i with your speed most likely. Go 6i through GW (maybe even 7-GW) as your ball speed gaps in the longer irons will likely get too close. Find somewhere that will maybe even let you gap test the set once you commit to buying so you can find what you need. If the 6i is 26-28 degrees of loft that’s likely as low loft as I would go and then fill your bag with either a 24-25 degree hybrid and then a higher lofted fairway next (18-20 degrees). 
 

6. At sub 100 driver speed don’t bother with a 15 degree 3W. Get something at 16.5 or most likely go straight to a 5W. Modern 5W go plenty long and are more versatile from both tee and ground. 

[loki993]

1 hour ago, WristySwing said:

 

I think a lot of people are glossing over the fact you already have a decent set of irons.  Play the Raptures for now to at least give you some forgiveness.  The Eye2's are good but they are also 40 years old at this point.  At least with the Raptures you are getting some technology from this century, they have a high MOI (resistance to twisting) a titanium, flexing face for more ball speed, and so on.  Those will hold you over while you get lessons. You probably won't need many to at least get you in a spot where you feel halfway confident that going for a fitting is going to be a decent exercise (i.e. you have a somewhat repeatable swing, the tops/thins/shanks are becoming less and less frequent).  From there, you let the fitter do their job.  Your only job is to provide feedback on what you are feeling during the fitting and whether you like that feeling or not. 

 

You have a lot of questions and that's good, but a lot of these questions are not that relevant to you.  You shouldn't worry yourself about offset and smaller heads.  You're a 20 handicap.  The offset and larger heads are there to help get the face back to square more easily, launch the ball higher, and twist less during the swing. People will typically transition to a player's distance iron when they are a bit more shallow but still need the help of a GI iron, or they want something with a bit more aesthetically pleasing looks.  That's really about the only difference here.  Again, just to hammer it home, don't get bogged down in the technicals.  You need to play what works for you not what the internet says will work for you.  None of us have seen you hit a ball.  When you go into the fitting, go in with an open mind about what clubs will work for you.  Shaft flex will sort itself out there but generally anything > 80mph with a 6/7i is typically a stiff flex and then 80 <> 70 is a regular.  However, again, this too is fluid and not very cut and dry, which is why its important to just be a blank canvas when you walk in.  

 

The only two things you need to concern yourself with when you are at your fitting are 1) a hard and fast realistic budget you want to stick to.  Any good fitter will be able to find a club in your price point that works for you.  Will it be THE PERFECT CLUB?  Unlikely as those rarely exist and if it does, it might not be within the budget, so just be aware of that and make sure you have a good plan B in case plan A is out of your price range.  2) Have a two-way conversation with the fitter.  Don't just let them tell you what they want to see, tell them your goals, and what feels good and doesn't.  However, this comes with a caveat.  Don't get too starry-eyed about your future there is a chance you may not get there.  Play the clubs that fit you now and you can always reassess as needed in 5 years or whenever if you get there.

 

Yeah, I think some assumed I was still playing the Eye2s, Which had served me will, but yeah I was looking for something a bit more modern. Was going to get something new then but I decided to go the used inexpensive route for the time being. I sold the eye2s a couple months ago when I got the Raptures. So the raptures are what's in the bag now. They were an experiment, they have light graphite shafts and area a half an inch short. I'm 5'7 so I thought going a little shorter may be helpful. Im still on the fence about the length but I don't think its mattered all that much.

 

I don't think I like the graphite shafts or at least not an ultralight shaft. They have some older, apparently quite expensive at the time, 75 gram Fubuki shafts in them and I don't know I just think something steel in the 95 to 100 gr range would feel better for me but again these are things that will come up in a fitting to be sure about. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, philly2kuk said:

Sounds like you’d benefit from lessons first then changing clubs later. If you just want to change clubs go for it, but one of the best players in our club uses titleist t300 off scratch. His reason why? Because when he mishits them they still go the same distance instead of being short like his old blades. He had regular sessions with his coach instead.

 

 

Yeah I am 100 percent sure ill never used blades, I don't hate myself that much lol.

 

He definitely makes a lot of sense though and that's sort of my mentality and a bit of why I am asking.

 

Im not sure I see a point in my game or the course I play where I would need something other than a GI iron. That said I was looking at some t200s, p790s at the store the other day and they look great, but we don't play with aesthetics performance is what matters. 

[philly2kuk]

6 minutes ago, loki993 said:

 

Yeah, I think some assumed I was still playing the Eye2s, Which had served me will, but yeah I was looking for something a bit more modern. Was going to get something new then but I decided to go the used inexpensive route for the time being. I sold the eye2s a couple months ago when I got the Raptures. So the raptures are what's in the bag now. They were an experiment, they have light graphite shafts and area a half an inch short. I'm 5'7 so I thought going a little shorter may be helpful. Im still on the fence about the length but I don't think its mattered all that much.

 

I don't think I like the graphite shafts or at least not an ultralight shaft. They have some older, apparently quite expensive at the time, 75 gram Fubuki shafts in them and I don't know I just think something steel in the 95 to 100 gr range would feel better for me but again these are things that will come up in a fitting to be sure about. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I am 100 percent sure ill never used blades, I don't hate myself that much lol.

 

He definitely makes a lot of sense though and that's sort of my mentality and a bit of why I am asking.

 

Im not sure I see a point in my game or the course I play where I would need something other than a GI iron. That said I was looking at some t200s, p790s at the store the other day and they look great, but we don't play with aesthetics performance is what matters. 

If you’ve got the time to play often, I say play blades. I played mp32 when I was at university but I was golfing 3-4 times a week and at the range at least twice to get to my 4 handicap. But you’ve got to be playing lots of golf to play blades in my opinion.

 

Now I play on average once a week and I’ve crept up to 12. No way I could play blades now and enjoy the game with so little practice. I’m also yet to meet the mythical high handicapper that is a ball striker but can’t putt. I’d always tell people to aspire to play blades but unless you can put the time in to practice then don’t do it as you’ll just struggle.

[Ghostwedge]

To the OP, if you like to tinker pull the grips and put one half inch extensions in the clubs. Get hem back to standard length then they should feel heavier. 

Bonus...new grips. At 5'7 you can still play regular length clubs and might be easier Nicklaus on  the back.

[ApostateDrive]

59 minutes ago, cmatthews77 said:

Don’t buy “the whole set” like they have off the rack. The stronger lofted irons are still often sold 4-W but you may be MUCH better off not carrying past 6i. If the loft on the 7i is 30 degrees or less then I wouldn’t get the 5i with your speed most likely. Go 6i through GW (maybe even 7-GW) as your ball speed gaps in the longer irons will likely get too close. Find somewhere that will maybe even let you gap test the set once you commit to buying so you can find what you need. If the 6i is 26-28 degrees of loft that’s likely as low loft as I would go and then fill your bag with either a 24-25 degree hybrid and then a higher lofted fairway next (18-20 degrees). 

 

6. At sub 100 driver speed don’t bother with a 15 degree 3W. Get something at 16.5 or most likely go straight to a 5W. Modern 5W go plenty long and are more versatile from both tee and ground. 

 

This man speaks the truth. My driver swing is 95ish and I hopped back into golf with a 9.5° driver, 15° 3 wood, 19° 3 hybrid, and 20° 4i. It was not the correct thing to do and I was miserable trying to get the ball up high enough to carry a good distance. I've since gone to 11.5° driver, 18° 5 wood, 21° 7 wood, and 26° 5 iron. 

[loki993]

1 hour ago, cmatthews77 said:

I’ll weigh in a little different… sometimes people just want a new set of clubs and then start practicing especially if they’re getting back into it. Here are my iron opinions and they’re just that my opinions…

1. Iron forgiveness to a point becomes overrated. Manufacturers make these gigantic “max forgiveness” irons but to me at a point they become harder to hit. They don’t get through the turf well, soles too big, too much offset. Just too much. 
 

2. I think the sweet spot for forgiveness is something that keeps ball speed up if you hit it a couple of grooves low or out on the toe. If you’re struggling with the low point of your swing and hitting shots fat then there isn’t an iron model that can fix that. I mean at some point a 9-iron is a 9-iron. 
 

3. Irons like P790 from Taylor Made; Callaway Apex, Titleist T200, Srixon ZX5 and whatever the Ping equivalent is are all sure to be great choices and plenty forgiving! Just test or get the ones you like the best for whatever reason and go for it. They’re all pretty similar. 
 

4. With sub 100mph swing speed with driver the stronger lofts will help you somewhat. Irons like above mentioned can help maintain proper gapping. 
 

5. Don’t buy “the whole set” like they have off the rack. The stronger lofted irons are still often sold 4-W but you may be MUCH better off not carrying past 6i. If the loft on the 7i is 30 degrees or less then I wouldn’t get the 5i with your speed most likely. Go 6i through GW (maybe even 7-GW) as your ball speed gaps in the longer irons will likely get too close. Find somewhere that will maybe even let you gap test the set once you commit to buying so you can find what you need. If the 6i is 26-28 degrees of loft that’s likely as low loft as I would go and then fill your bag with either a 24-25 degree hybrid and then a higher lofted fairway next (18-20 degrees). 
 

6. At sub 100 driver speed don’t bother with a 15 degree 3W. Get something at 16.5 or most likely go straight to a 5W. Modern 5W go plenty long and are more versatile from both tee and ground. 

 

Few things here I agree with most of them, I generally use a 10.5 driver, right now I have a Rogue 9 degree that I've lofted up to 10. I could even go one more to 11 and I may try it but if I hit it well as is It gets up in the air well right now. 

 

As for the irons here is a rub, I absolutely hate hybrids, cant hit them, never could and I've tried. I even have one in the bag right now because I had a huge gap between my 5i and 3 wood and I still hate it, its probably a mental block but I just never felt like I could hit them well, I prefer fairway woods or long irons over hybrids. I've always had at least a 4 iron if not a 3. I hit a 4 ok but yeah it didn't really get in the air but I was also having swing issues too. The Rapture set starts at a 5 iron and I hit that fine. I've been toying with the idea of putting a 7 wood in instead of a hybrid because I hit fairway woods decently. Not having a 4i though makes me uncomfortable. Im sure it mental but it is what it is.  

 

As for the 3 wood, I don't know what it is but I have an r580 XD 3 wood and I hit it great. Its dead straight and 200 yards, its one of the clubs in my bag that I know if I do my part I know exactly where its going and how far its going to go. I also tried to replace it with a stealth 3HL, which is a 16.5 so a 4 wood and had nothing but issue with it. I sliced the crap out of it. I see no reason for having a fairway wood that I slice so I got rid of it and put the 3 back in. 

 

Yes I understand and agree that my swing speed says I shouldn't be able to hit that 3 wood well but for some reason I do. One of life's mysteries I suppose. 

 

 

1 hour ago, philly2kuk said:

If you’ve got the time to play often, I say play blades. I played mp32 when I was at university but I was golfing 3-4 times a week and at the range at least twice to get to my 4 handicap. But you’ve got to be playing lots of golf to play blades in my opinion.

 

Now I play on average once a week and I’ve crept up to 12. No way I could play blades now and enjoy the game with so little practice. I’m also yet to meet the mythical high handicapper that is a ball striker but can’t putt. I’d always tell people to aspire to play blades but unless you can put the time in to practice then don’t do it as you’ll just struggle.

 

Yeah I do not and will not have time to play 3 or 4 times a week. I have 2 kids, 5 and 7 that are just starting sports, we were pretty busy this summer and its only going to get busier the older they get. I will be pushing it to play once a week soon I fear but I'm going to try as much as I can. Getting into a league next year will make me play once a week so that's what Im going to do. Luckily I have a supportive SO and if I say I want to play once a week in a league we will make it work. 

 

 

All that said there is no place for blades in my golfing future. If I don't stick with a GI club something like a forgiving players distance is my final stopping place. I am not looking to make the game harder than it needs to be. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by loki993

[fwilliam]

Golf is a journey, not a destination. My SS is close to yours and I have transitioned from stiff steel to S/R graphite shafts due to age and back issues. I have the same game improvement Ping G410 iron heads, 5-GW and simply reshafted, as needed. The newer generation irons make the game more fun, and I believe will aid your learning curve, but a fitting will be needed at some point (once your overall swing is more or less stable). Playing off a 3 Hdcp (age 69) I see most golfers at my club needing work on 1. GPA-grip posture, alignment 2. takeaway and 3. Impact ,all of which are readily trainable. Good luck!

Edited August 7, 2023 by fwilliam

[NJBigFish22]

I say go get fit, you don’t have to buy, but you will get great info, provided your fitter is knowledgeable.  I had a fitting yesterday with Titleist and it was eye opening.  I learned a lot, biggest takeaway is my current set is probably harming my game more than helping.  New clubs are an investment/expensive, that is why I would get fit, you can take those specs and try to find used.

[Chunkitgood]

I will be more explicit than some above.

 

There are two ways generally to use the club: the right way, to hit down on the ball, and the wrong way, to hit up on it.  If you do it the right way you get divots in front of the ball, if you do it the wrong way you could fat it or thin it either way as you bottom out before the ball is struck.

 

The overwhelming majority of people hit the all the wrong way, because it is the “natural” way they learn on their own.  This includes many low cappers and probably includes you.  It may include your club champion or even your club pro.  It is nevertheless wrong.  Not surprisingly most clubs are designed for and marketed to the people who use the club wrong.  Almost everybody in this category would be better off using as much “game improvement” as they can stand to look at…unless they want to learn to use the club right, in which case there is an argument to be made that it is better to learn with clubs without too much “game improvement.”

 

So, either use whatever clubs you have, the Eye 2’s if you still have them, to learn to use the club right, then get whatever strikes your fancy, or get a whole lot GI.

 

To put it any other way, chances are anything other than high GI, whether so called players distance or whatever, will hurt your score using your (assumed loft adding) current swing.  As long as you have such a swing, you need not think about “upgrading.”

 

And even after you learn to use the club right you might still want a lot of GI.

 

[boggyman]

Guy in our regular group still plays Copper Eye 2s he bought new! Been reshafted several time he says. Routinely shoots high 60s into mid 70s with ease from senior tees.

With your busy life with young kids, I’d keep playing the Raptures and practice as time allowed to get better. Just enjoy the game! 

[ShortGolfer]

I think you need to work on consistent contact with your irons before getting new clubs.

If you don't have time for that, and that is understandable with kids, maybe it isn't time for new clubs?

 

If my help to have the lofts and lies checked, particularly if one club seems a bit off.  The wrong lie angle can make the ball go left or right to where it should go.

If you have two irons that go the same distance just leave one out of the bag for now!  Most beginners carry too many clubs.  Like the 3W or 4I they never use.

Edited August 7, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[mantan]

I would see a fitter and make see if the irons were the right length/lie for you and if the shaft fits.  PING generally used shafts that fit a wide range of swings back in the day, so you should be fine there.

 

You asked a lot of questions about Players distance vs GI irons. Golf is weird in that as we get better we get the idea that our equipment may be 'holding us back'...even though there are undoubtedly players with half your handicap playing the same irons.

It's natural though. As we get better, we hear the siren song of the next category of irons and think it will make good better.   IMO, iron choices should be about what YOU need for your game.  One thing I love that my fitter said is first and foremost you have to love to look at them. If you type of iron doesn't suit your eye, you'll never be happy with it.

 

But from there it's about what you value. Maximum forgiveness. Workability. Feel. Maximum distance. Everybody is different.  You have to determine what you need/want the most and that'll drive what type of iron you want. If you crave distance, it may end up being some of the hollow body/strong shafted irons you listed.  Some people want something that will give them max forgiveness, even if it's a little bulkier. Some people want a club with forgiveness, but that still feels good at impact.

 

 

 

[loki993]

49 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

I will be more explicit than some above.

 

There are two ways generally to use the club: the right way, to hit down on the ball, and the wrong way, to hit up on it.  If you do it the right way you get divots in front of the ball, if you do it the wrong way you could fat it or thin it either way as you bottom out before the ball is struck.

 

The overwhelming majority of people hit the all the wrong way, because it is the “natural” way they learn on their own.  This includes many low cappers and probably includes you.  It may include your club champion or even your club pro.  It is nevertheless wrong.  Not surprisingly most clubs are designed for and marketed to the people who use the club wrong.  Almost everybody in this category would be better off using as much “game improvement” as they can stand to look at…unless they want to learn to use the club right, in which case there is an argument to be made that it is better to learn with clubs without too much “game improvement.”

 

So, either use whatever clubs you have, the Eye 2’s if you still have them, to learn to use the club right, then get whatever strikes your fancy, or get a whole lot GI.

 

To put it any other way, chances are anything other than high GI, whether so called players distance or whatever, will hurt your score using your (assumed loft adding) current swing.  As long as you have such a swing, you need not think about “upgrading.”

 

And even after you learn to use the club right you might still want a lot of GI.

 

 

Exactly what I'm working on is "hitting it the right way" and its working, even though Ive known for some time what I was supposed to be doing it was just the doing it part that was challenging. Right now, currently after 1 lesson, I'm doing it, I'm curious to see if it keeps up. Was messing around at GG the other day and wanted to see if I could do it with some other clubs because I was hitting my pings so well during the lesson...t200 4 iron, pured, t150 5 iron pured, they just happened to have a bunch of titlists in the demo bag so.. anyway we will see if it keeps up. I've had bouts over the years where I think I get it and then it goes to crap again, so I have a bit of skepticism right now but maybe this the time time I've finally gotten it I'm definitely using a different mentality than I ever have before so who maybe it finally sticks.  

 

Obviously I need to get out on the course and see what my ball flight looks like but I know what a well stuck shot feels like and Ive had quite a few lately. We shall see. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, boggyman said:

Guy in our regular group still plays Copper Eye 2s he bought new! Been reshafted several time he says. Routinely shoots high 60s into mid 70s with ease from senior tees.

With your busy life with young kids, I’d keep playing the Raptures and practice as time allowed to get better. Just enjoy the game! 

 

 

I always enjoy the game even when I'm not playing well so there is that otherwise I wouldn't have played for as long as I have, I wouldn't have decided at 45 that I was going to set a goal of getting into single digits. I would just like to be better that's all and the competitive side of me want to be as good as I can be within reason with the somewhat limited time that I have. 

[ShortGolfer]

18 minutes ago, loki993 said:

 

Was messing around at GG the other day and wanted to see if I could do it with some other clubs because I was hitting my pings so well during the lesson...t200 4 iron, pured, t150 5 iron pured, they just happened to have a bunch of titlists in the demo bag so.. anyway we will see if it keeps up. I've had bouts over the years where I think I get it and then it goes to crap again, so I have a bit of skepticism right now but maybe this the time time I've finally gotten it I'm definitely using a different mentality than I ever have before so who maybe it finally sticks.  

 

Obviously I need to get out on the course and see what my ball flight looks like but I know what a well stuck shot feels like and Ive had quite a few lately. We shall see. 

 

Hitting on a mat can be deceptive as it can mask swing flaws.  Hitting the same shot over and over again is different that hitting irons on a golf course.  On my hilly course I may not see two identical lies in the same round.

 

I have SGI irons.  A lot of my misses land quite close to where a good shot lands.  The luxury of playing on an empty Executive course.  I can hit the ball again compare two shots.

 

I have two nice sets of clubs.  One based on a Club Champion fitting.  Another with Big Bertha woods and Mavrik Max irons.  I upgraded the woods in my 2nd set to have the same shafts as my expensive CC clubs!

That could be an option, to have two sets of clubs if you can afford it.

Edited August 7, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[boggyman]

31 minutes ago, loki993 said:

 

Exactly what I'm working on is "hitting it the right way" and its working, even though Ive known for some time what I was supposed to be doing it was just the doing it part that was challenging. Right now, currently after 1 lesson, I'm doing it, I'm curious to see if it keeps up. Was messing around at GG the other day and wanted to see if I could do it with some other clubs because I was hitting my pings so well during the lesson...t200 4 iron, pured, t150 5 iron pured, they just happened to have a bunch of titlists in the demo bag so.. anyway we will see if it keeps up. I've had bouts over the years where I think I get it and then it goes to crap again, so I have a bit of skepticism right now but maybe this the time time I've finally gotten it I'm definitely using a different mentality than I ever have before so who maybe it finally sticks.  

 

Obviously I need to get out on the course and see what my ball flight looks like but I know what a well stuck shot feels like and Ive had quite a few lately. We shall see. 

 

 

 

 

I always enjoy the game even when I'm not playing well so there is that otherwise I wouldn't have played for as long as I have, I wouldn't have decided at 45 that I was going to set a goal of getting into single digits. I would just like to be better that's all and the competitive side of me want to be as good as I can be within reason with the somewhat limited time that I have. 

Glad you enjoy the game. It can beat one up easily and very consistently. I set a goal like yours couple seasons ago. Got to a single digit, 7.4 when I quit tracking it. I got too caught up in the numbers game though and quit tracking my HC.  I saw what and where I was suffering and went to work. Worked hard on my putting and short game, 100 yards and in, AND stuck to one set of irons that year. I’m away from the game for 6 months outta the year, 28 days on the job, 28 days off! It can be done!! Good luck to ya!! 

[loki993]

9 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

 

Hitting on a mat can be deceptive as it can mask swing flaws.  Hitting the same shot over and over again is different that hitting irons on a golf course.  On my hilly course I may not see two identical lies in the same round.

 

I have SGI irons.  A lot of my misses land quite close to where a good shot lands.  The luxury of playing on an empty Executive course.  I can hit the ball again compare two shots.

 

I have two nice sets of clubs.  One based on a Club Champion fitting.  Another with Big Bertha woods and Mavrik Max irons.  I upgraded the woods in my 2nd set to have the same shafts as my expensive CC clubs!

That could be an option, to have two sets of clubs if you can afford it.

 

I understand that which was why I said I need to get out on the course to be sure. Also though I know when Im hitting on a mat when I don't hit it well. I can feel it. if I hit the mat before the ball I can feel the club grab, I know I've hit it fat regardless of what the ball actually does. 

[ChipNRun]

 

Comments inserted in blue Georgia text.

 

17 hours ago, loki993 said:

My swing has always been just ok and Ive struggled on and off, mostly on , with poor contact and thins and tops, toe shots mostly. Im working on that, getting some lessons and working it out. 

 

Definitely get your swing stabilized. Then, use launch data to guide you toward a fitted set.

 

17 hours ago, loki993 said:

When do people usually transition to a players distance irons and why?

 

Players Distance irons can be a touchy area. Basically, you need to have enough clubhead speed that you can launch the ball high enough to get good carry and spin. Many PD models have stronger lofts than comparable GI models, which can cause problems on decent launch.

 

In my case, I tried Mavrik standard irons (PD-ish) vs. Mavrix MAX irons. Hit 7 irons with same Regular flex shaft. The MAX had higher loft, and I hit them a club longer than the std Mavs because I got better launch. You have to do a side-by-side (PD vs GI) to know for sure.

  

                     I hear "workability" but what if I'm not particularly interested in that right now? When does not having workability become an issue? Workability involves the golfer and the clubs. It's the ability to produce - when wanted - something other than a straight-ish standard shot with the club.

 

Anyone who understands the golf swing and ball flight rules should be able to produce a basic fade or draw with most golf clubs. But, more exotic shot shapings require practice. Advice for iron design engineers: To hit a shot into the wind, the average golfer should just select an extra club or two.  

 

                     Feel? Feel is an odd thing to discuss. It's more important to some golfers than others. Basically, if the iron model doesn't feel good, don't buy it! Others can share insights on this one.

 

If I should be using a game improvement iron how much am I punishing myself using a players distance iron.

Uhhh, you are violating the basic rule for golfers who don't break 80: Get clubs that won't hurt your game. Get clubs for the swing you have today, not the swing you hope to have next year.

PD irons + GI swing leads to: Inconsistent launch / low spin and poor stop-power / inconsistent distance yardstick / fighting the shaft --> poor swing tempo / and other bad things.

 

One big thing: If you have GI-level swing speed, you will get more consistent distance yardstick and better spin/bite on your iron shots with GI irons. Some better players have commented that PD clubs messed up the distance yardstick for longer irons. 

 

[gvogel]

17 hours ago, loki993 said:

Ive played golf on and off for the better part of 30 years. A lot of that time its been a handful of rounds a year, a couple outings, a couple rounds here and there.  There have been time's in my life where Ive played more and times where Ive played less. The past 2 years Ive been working on trying to play a lot more and get legitimately better. My swing has always been just ok and Ive struggled on and off, mostly on , with poor contact and thins and tops, toe shots mostly. Im working on that, getting some lessons and working it out. 

 

I need to get on a monitor I know and I will, but right now Im estimating my swing speed to be anywhere around 90 to 95 MPH. I can hit my driver anywhere from 220 to 240 which I think puts me in that speed range. 

 

I am currently probably a 20 HDC when Im hitting it OK. My goal is to get into the single digits. I think I can do it with a bit of work, practice and a few lessons. My chipping is decent, could always be better, and I'm a good putter. I really need better approach shots and decent tee shots. Solving my contact issues will help a lot with that obviously and I can go from there. 

 

So all that background, I want a set of new irons, Ive never had a new set in my life and I want to treat myself to something nice. Something nice is expensive and if I get a new set I want to be able to keep them for a while so Im thinking of getting maybe what I think I would want to be playing with in 2 or 3 years instead of what I probably should be using now. 

 

Im probably in a full game improvement iron right now. I used a set of hand me down Eye 2s for many years and currently Im gaming a set of Raptures I got off of Ebay. Im not necessarily a Ping "person" just for whatever reason that's what's found its way into my bag. 

 

This isn't really a question of brand but more game improvement vs players distance and shaft flex. 

 

What advantage do I get going to a players distance iron vs game improvement?

 

What are the signs that I shouldn't be using game improvement irons anymore?

 

P790s, HM Pros, T200s for example, all of these talk about being very forgiving so is the game improvement vs players distance irons line being majorly blurred at this point to the point where the difference may not even matter all that much? Smaller heads and less offset is that it anymore? How much of a difference does that really make?

I hear tons of people talk about how forgiving a P790 is for example but when I look at it I feel like I have no business playing that with my handicap even though I love the look and feel of these irons. Being over the top of something like a p790 or similar it feels good, they look great. None of that matters if I cant hit them though. 

 

When do people usually transition to a players distance irons and why? 

                     I hear "workability" but what if I'm not particularly interested in that right now? When does not having workability become an issue?

                     Feel?

 

If I should be using a game improvement iron how much am I punishing myself using a players distance iron.

 

What about shaft flex? I use regular right now but with at least some shafts I'm right on the line for stiff. Also as I get better I would like to add some swing speed so when would not having a stiff enough shafts become an issue with irons specifically. If its even an issue at all. 

 

 

If you read this far thanks, sorry for the book. 

 

If you didn't the TL:DR of it is Im a 20 HDC working on getting better. I'm thinking about getting a set of player distance irons with stiff shafts because I think that's what I will need in the next 2 years, maybe even much less, as I get better. How badly would I be screwing myself and now much will they make me hate the game if I did that?

 

I'm a pretty good player from time to time, and I am playing T300, and AP1 before that.  I like to make golf easier.  Getting the right shaft is key.  I was using Nippon 105T before, and I have gone to a lighter Nippon, the 950 NEO because I am 70 now.

 

If I wanted something sexier, I would be looking at Srixon ZX5 MKII irons.  They get some good write-ups, and the lofts are not crazy strong.  If you can't stand offset, Mizuno 923 Forged would work.  I happen to like some offset.

 

Last time out I used a mini driver, 13.5 loft tuned to 14 or so.  I hit lots of fairways, which makes the game easier.  So there's that.

[cmatthews77]

7 hours ago, loki993 said:

 

Few things here I agree with most of them, I generally use a 10.5 driver, right now I have a Rogue 9 degree that I've lofted up to 10. I could even go one more to 11 and I may try it but if I hit it well as is It gets up in the air well right now. 

 

As for the irons here is a rub, I absolutely hate hybrids, cant hit them, never could and I've tried. I even have one in the bag right now because I had a huge gap between my 5i and 3 wood and I still hate it, its probably a mental block but I just never felt like I could hit them well, I prefer fairway woods or long irons over hybrids. I've always had at least a 4 iron if not a 3. I hit a 4 ok but yeah it didn't really get in the air but I was also having swing issues too. The Rapture set starts at a 5 iron and I hit that fine. I've been toying with the idea of putting a 7 wood in instead of a hybrid because I hit fairway woods decently. Not having a 4i though makes me uncomfortable. Im sure it mental but it is what it is.  

 

As for the 3 wood, I don't know what it is but I have an r580 XD 3 wood and I hit it great. Its dead straight and 200 yards, its one of the clubs in my bag that I know if I do my part I know exactly where its going and how far its going to go. I also tried to replace it with a stealth 3HL, which is a 16.5 so a 4 wood and had nothing but issue with it. I sliced the crap out of it. I see no reason for having a fairway wood that I slice so I got rid of it and put the 3 back in. 

 

 

Definitely got to do what works best for you! There’s no one way and everyone is unique. 
 

For the record on long irons it’s not as much hitting the ball high enough (that’s part of it) it’s just maintaining proper gaps. Most (not all) people who swing driver at 100mph won’t carry a 5i more than few yards further than their 6i and certainly not 12-15 yards further. Even moreso with 5 to 4. But you can change models to help. 

[miles2go]

If I can’t hit a club acceptably 9 out of 10 times then it goes to the donation box after a few test sessions. Of course 30 years of grooving a swing helps to identify the clubs that won’t work very quickly. Gotta find what works for you. 

[loki993]

4 hours ago, cmatthews77 said:

For the record on long irons it’s not as much hitting the ball high enough (that’s part of it) it’s just maintaining proper gaps. Most (not all) people who swing driver at 100mph won’t carry a 5i more than few yards further than their 6i and certainly not 12-15 yards further. Even moreso with 5 to 4. But you can change models to help. 

 

That makes sense and definitely possible. I'd have to try it out on the range to see if data backs it up. What I really need is a 7 wood I can git as well as my 3. Maybe I'll find an old v steel and give it a try on the cheap.