Weak grip...wow

[reefrash1043]

Have always been a stronger grip player but saw a video the other day where it said if you have a slower swing that a weaker grip might work better for you. I played two rounds where my left thumb was right in line with the shaft (pretty weak) and I was absolutely flushing the ball. Maybe its a matchup thing or a swing speed/tempo thing but I was pretty blown away.

 

Anyone else experience this?

 

[aramirez24]

I've found some success with a weaker grip, but it was more of a bandaid to keep me from slamming the face closed at impact. It worked for a bit, but eventually I stopped matching up the face at impact and blasting balls right or flipping it closed to save it and hooking it left. It helped with driver more than anything, but I ended up going back to the drawing board.

[Ri_Redneck]

I believe your grip is dependent on your muscular/skeletal makeup. The grip that works best for you is usually the one you should be using, UNLESS you have a major swing flaw that requires it.

 

BT

[ShortGolfer]

I can play a weak grip for much shorter shots with the lob wedge but need a stronger grip to be consistent with my 22* 5 iron.

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, reefrash1043 said:

Have always been a stronger grip player but saw a video the other day where it said if you have a slower swing that a weaker grip might work better for you. I played two rounds where my left thumb was right in line with the shaft (pretty weak) and I was absolutely flushing the ball. Maybe its a matchup thing or a swing speed/tempo thing but I was pretty blown away.

 

Anyone else experience this?

 

Numerous people that use strong grips, think comparatively neutral grip is weak; it just feels that way to people use to using strong grip.  Neutral is played by more tour players than any other grips.  I been using a neutral grip since taking up golf 30+yrs back, learned it from Ben Hogan.  It has nothing to do with SS/tempo either.  My SS is above normal for my age and tempo & transition has always been fast, and still playing to a 4 index.

 

Simple determination: stand upright with your arms hanging at your side.  Note the direction your hands point.  My left hand is slightly inclined towards the right, aiming at approximately 1 o'clock = neutral.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[golfarb1]

A weak lead hand grip requires more of the reverse motorcycle move in the later backswing / transition to square the clubface , while a strong lead hand grip requires

little of this movement .

All of those touring pros who have their lead wrist bowed at the top ( with the exception of Dustin Johnson , whose range of motion is off of the charts) have weak lead hand grips. For almost all golfers it is anatomically impossible to bow or even flatten the lead hand wrist with a strong lead hand grip. 

[Ri_Redneck]

3 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Numerous people that use strong grips, think comparatively neutral grip is weak; it just feels that way to people use to using strong grip.  Neutral is played by more tour players than any other grips.  I been using a neutral grip since taking up golf 30+yrs back, learned it from Ben Hogan.  It has nothing to do with SS/tempo either.  My SS is above normal for my age and tempo & transition has always been fast, and still playing to a 4 index.

 

Simple determination: stand upright with your arms hanging at your side.  Note the direction your hands point.  My left hand is slightly inclined towards the right, aiming at approximately 1 o'clock = neutral.

I use this same process, however mine is at about 45°. So my grip is somewhat strong. If you watch the old Bobby Jones videos from the 30's, when he's standing like that addressing the audience, all you see is the back of his hands. That's what made me start thinking that way about hand orientation. I struggled horribly at the game until I found the proper orientation for my hands. Wish I had seen those videos when I was in my 20's!!

 

BT

Edited September 25, 2023 by Ri_Redneck

[Dan_Woden]

Finding the correct grip for you is about matching to your individual release pattern and swing mechanics. That's why we see every grip imaginable through the history of golf.

 

Many of the best players had weak grips - Miller, Mickelson (lead hand), Speith, Rahm and of course the greatest.... Nicklaus.

[Simpsonia]

On 9/25/2023 at 1:37 PM, golfarb1 said:

A weak lead hand grip requires more of the reverse motorcycle move in the later backswing / transition to square the clubface , while a strong lead hand grip requires

little of this movement .

All of those touring pros who have their lead wrist bowed at the top ( with the exception of Dustin Johnson , whose range of motion is off of the charts) have weak lead hand grips. For almost all golfers it is anatomically impossible to bow or even flatten the lead hand wrist with a strong lead hand grip. 

 

I think this is mostly right, but it's not that it's impossible to bow with a strong lead grip. How much the lead hand can bow is more a function of range of motion in extension of the trail hand in conjunction with the strength of the trail hand grip. The weaker the lead hand grip in comparison to the strength of the trail hand grip, the more difficult it will be to bow the lead wrist. DJ's trail grip is very strong, but so is his lead hand. Morikawa and Hovland have much weaker lead hand grips, but also weaker trail hand grips. 

 

That said, most people can bow their wrist far more than they think they can, they are just carrying far too much wrist tension to do it effectively in the swing. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Simpsonia

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

I've always striven for a neutral grip. Any adjustments made are have to be counterbalanced. I've experimented in a few ways and for me have just found weak is a no go.... a complete no go.

I try to keep the central fold between the thumb and index finger of my left hand "centered" on the shaft and tuck my left thumb down into the area where my right palm will rest. I place my right hand on the bottom ensuring the right index finger's lower pad is in opposition on the bottom and then wrap it. That generally allows the "V" to point up toward my right shoulder(ish). Having the thumb in there makes it feel nice and tight and I don't have to generate additional pressure or tension.

When I consider it in memory, I feel like the left hand appears a bit strong, but the right hand stays fairly neutral. I keep my elbow tight in position and as I initiate very little movement occurs in the wrists at all until release. I'm a big believer that the grip is central to enabling a natural swing motion with minimal thought; which for me generates greatest efficiency.

I suspect an instructor would rule my grip "slightly strong" but I honestly try to strive for neutral.

Though, there really isn't a "correct" grip per se; it's just that most of us amateur golfers don't possess the knowledge and experience to execute the weak or strong grips correctly. Eventually, with practice, though, one learns. But neutral is the best starting point in my opinion.

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

 

 

 

That said, most people can bow their wrist far more than they think they can….

Correct.  Grip does not preclude you from any wrist motion.  All good players of all grips flex the lead wrist at some point in the swing.  It’s common sense since basically all of them start extending at p6 and basically none of them are extended at impact.  Understanding release patterns, seeing results of hack motion use in hundreds of lessons of golfers of different skill levels and grips is far superior than adhering to age old misconceptions and myths.  It’s no different than people calling recentering a reverse pivot, syncing the arms on time not a ground up swing and ulnar deviating properly is casting.  

[KMeloney]

Ok, so let's say I've got nearly 45°s of turn-in of my hands when letting them hang. Which hand does that test dictate should be on the club "strong"? The lead (my left) hand would make sense. But then it also stands to reason that putting my right hand on strong is very much counter to the way it hangs, and so it's always wanting to get back to its "neutral" and shut the face down.

 

I've always had a strong grip -- with both hands strong. I've been tinkering with weakening it for a couple month now, and whereas I've had some success with it, I think it's going to take a lot of reps to make it feel reliable. To be clear, my miss with the strong grip has always been a draw/hook, and that's why I've sought to weaken it. It's just that with my right hand weaker, I feel like I can't get "behind" the shot as well (but also am less inclined to hook the ball).

 

I really need to get my grip figured out once and for all and just stick with it. But it's been mostly strong for 25+ years now, and maybe I just need to figure out better movement match-ups to play and rely on a slight draw with a strong grip.

[golfarb1]

Hardly an old wives tale ! 
The normal range of motion for both extension and flexion of the wrists is around 70 degrees with flexion usually a little more . Gripping the club with a strong lead hand grip means that you are starting out by gripping the club with  considerable extension . Even if the  lead hand correctly moves TOWARDS flexion by impact , the lead hand will still be in the extension at impact , unless the golfer has far above normal range of motion 

The following quotes are from the “ Hackmotion  “website  and refer to the lead hand . 

” A popular belief is you need to be flexed ( with the lead wrist ) at impact , which is a misconception 

What you actually need  to be is more flexed at impact than your address position , which happens if you have shaft lean .If you have a strong lead grip , I.e. 40 degrees of extension , you can remove 30 degrees of extension and still be extended ( at impact) . This is normal . “
 

“ For players with a strong grip , the impact position will be more extended than with a weak grip”

” Many tour players are slightly extended at impact “

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by golfarb1

[phizzy30]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:55 AM, aramirez24 said:

I've found some success with a weaker grip, but it was more of a bandaid to keep me from slamming the face closed at impact. It worked for a bit, but eventually I stopped matching up the face at impact and blasting balls right or flipping it closed to save it and hooking it left. It helped with driver more than anything, but I ended up going back to the drawing board.

Same boat as you.  I used to have a strong grip and hooked the s*** outta the ball so I changed to a really weak grip to compensate.  It worked for awhile but I was too inconsistent with it face angle wise at impact.  Now I'm back to a neutral grip and have better face angle control.  My face angle control is good with mid irons down, but still a bit wonky with long irons and up but I'll take that over hooking everything. 

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

Didn't Slicefixer say, "grip it strong and try to fade it."

[Lefty_3Jack]

Glad to hear someone could switch grips and have success immediately.  I have a 3.5 knuckle lead hand and weak trail hand and any change at all results in weak, weak push fades.  Worked on going to a 2.5 knuckle lead hand w/ matching trail hand for a month and never hooked the ball once, but I also didn't hit many playable balls on the range either.  

[larrybud]

On 9/25/2023 at 12:34 PM, Ri_Redneck said:

I believe your grip is dependent on your muscular/skeletal makeup. The grip that works best for you is usually the one you should be using, UNLESS you have a major swing flaw that requires it.

 

BT

Agreed. If I stand in front of a mirror and just let my arms hand, the back of my hands face forward more than most people, so the orientation between my two hands is different than how most (all?) instructors describe the relationship between the two hands. I end up with more of a strong left/weak right than typical

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

The way your hands hang has zero to do with what grip works best. This has to be one of the biggest myths in golf. The best grip for anyone is the one that squares the club face based on how their body moves.

[Dan_Woden]

8 hours ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

The way your hands hang has zero to do with what grip works best. This has to be one of the biggest myths in golf. The best grip for anyone is the one that squares the club face based on how their body moves.

Exactly. The golf swing is a dynamic move. Like using any other tool - has nothing to do with how the hands hang.

[IUBB]

I could talk forever about this.  About five years ago I was struggling with things.  I was about a 4-5 handicap and a little lost.  I went to a top 100 teacher who was a disciple of Mike Adams.  Long story short, I let my arms hang and he determined I HAD to have a stronger grip.  Subsequently I hit it further and my ball striking got much better.  I'm now a 1-2 handicap, but because of the strong grip I've gotten worse around the greens, my wedge game is gross, and on the off days my misses are brutal (two way / and long pulls).  I think the strong grip got me closed at address, and I've been hitting "pulls" towards my target instead of setting up square and using my body (instead of my hands) to square the club.  I think my strong grip lowers my ceiling for improvement - so I'm working on getting back to neutral or slightly strong.

 

Anyone actually tried hack-motion?  I'm not a gadgets guy - but I'm intrigued.  Also intrigued to hear others weigh in on the "arm hang" method of determining grip.  It is something that is definitely being tough nowadays.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by IUBB

[bm11]

13 minutes ago, IUBB said:

Anyone actually tried hack-motion?  I'm not a gadgets guy - but I'm intrigued.  Also intrigued to hear others weigh in on the "arm hang" method of determining grip.  It is something that is definitely being tough nowadays.  

I have one. I think it's amazing, but I'm a data-driven guy. Sometimes what you think your hands are doing is not at all what your hands are doing, and it's a great way to measure what's actually going on. 

[Ri_Redneck]

I will agree to disagree. But to my point, I believe it is reckless to ignore an anatomical trait when seeking proper hand placement. Anatomy is considered in all other aspects, why not here?

 

In my own endeavor (my hands hang at approx a 45* angle when at rest), I found that a stronger grip suits my swing and allows me to close the clubface reliably without having to worry about "training" myself to make any other motions such as excessive shallowing, pronating, etc. My swing feels totally natural and I just swing the club the way my body swings it the most comfortably. At 61, I have found my CHS is a high (110+/-) as it has been in the last 30 yrs as is my ball striking and scoring. The hardest part was forgetting all the things I had ingrained while trying to make the more neutral grip work. If any of those creep back in, i usually suffer from hooks. It's pretty rare these days, it typically only shows up when the arthritis in my hips flares up.

 

Relating IUBB's post, I haven't had any problems with my short game. My 100-in game is stronger than ever and chipping/putting has also improved. I find the key is ball placement and setup with the short game. Depending on the shot at hand, I place the ball at the appropriate point relating to the low point and everything is good.

 

As I mentioned at the start, I see no reason to argue because the truth of the matter is different things work for different people. So I see all of this as sharing of experiences so everyone can just make their own decisions. Case in point, if I had heard about this 20-30 yrs ago, it would have saved me a ton of frustration!

 

BT 

[IUBB]

1 hour ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I will agree to disagree. But to my point, I believe it is reckless to ignore an anatomical trait when seeking proper hand placement. Anatomy is considered in all other aspects, why not here?

 

In my own endeavor (my hands hang at approx a 45* angle when at rest), I found that a stronger grip suits my swing and allows me to close the clubface reliably without having to worry about "training" myself to make any other motions such as excessive shallowing, pronating, etc. My swing feels totally natural and I just swing the club the way my body swings it the most comfortably. At 61, I have found my CHS is a high (110+/-) as it has been in the last 30 yrs as is my ball striking and scoring. The hardest part was forgetting all the things I had ingrained while trying to make the more neutral grip work. If any of those creep back in, i usually suffer from hooks. It's pretty rare these days, it typically only shows up when the arthritis in my hips flares up.

 

Relating IUBB's post, I haven't had any problems with my short game. My 100-in game is stronger than ever and chipping/putting has also improved. I find the key is ball placement and setup with the short game. Depending on the shot at hand, I place the ball at the appropriate point relating to the low point and everything is good.

 

As I mentioned at the start, I see no reason to argue because the truth of the matter is different things work for different people. So I see all of this as sharing of experiences so everyone can just make their own decisions. Case in point, if I had heard about this 20-30 yrs ago, it would have saved me a ton of frustration!

 

BT 

 

I am not necessarily criticizing the idea of the arm hang method.  It did, in fact, improve my swing speed and ball contact.  I will say though, even the rounds I hit it great, my grip feels uncomfortable.  It's like I have to contort my body to make it feel right.  That leads to gripping too tight and I think the tension creates a move that leads to a pull.  It's amazing that when you change other parts of your swing, your hands take a while to adapt to the other body movements.  That's why, in my humble opinion, the grip is by far the most important part of a proper golf swing.  I'm still searching for the perfect grip.  I have what I would call the "grip yips" standing over the ball trying to make sure I get it right.  Those days are no fun

[Ri_Redneck]

2 minutes ago, IUBB said:

 

I am not necessarily criticizing the idea of the arm hang method.  It did, in fact, improve my swing speed and ball contact.  I will say though, even the rounds I hit it great, my grip feels uncomfortable.  It's like I have to contort my body to make it feel right.  That leads to gripping too tight and I think the tension creates a move that leads to a pull.  It's amazing that when you change other parts of your swing, your hands take a while to adapt to the other body movements.  That's why, in my humble opinion, the grip is by far the most important part of a proper golf swing.  I'm still searching for the perfect grip.  I have what I would call the "grip yips" standing over the ball trying to make sure I get it right.  Those days are no fun

"Contort" sounds a lot like what I had to go through to get back to what's normal now. When I first tried the stronger grip, it was snap-hook city! But as I got away from the setup and swing that I had learned over the years to accommodate for the "weaker" grip I was taught from the beginning, the feeling of "contorting" disappeared. Once I got used to the new setup, I realized that I was much more comfortable over the ball and felt that I was in a much more powerful position. Even though I've been playing this grip for almost 10 yrs, I STILL catch myself drifting into those old positions from time to time.

 

BT

[golferdude54]

I found that a weak top hand grip along with a strong enough bottom hand grip that gets the forearms and elbows parallel to target line works far better than a weak bottom hand grip.

 

With a weak bottom hand grip, it felt like I was unnaturally rotating the face open in the takeaway and that made me close it too much in the downswing and hook it, the opposite effect of what a weak bottom hand grip “should” do.
 

That was because my back forearm and elbow was way too “on top” from that grip, and the excessive opening in the takeaway were my forearms/elbows trying to get to neutral parallel.

[KMeloney]

Strong-grippers: Where in your stance are you playing the ball (for, say, a 7-iron)? And are you trying to hit the ball straight, or are you typically playing for a draw and trying to start it right and bring it back to your target?

[nitram]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:09 AM, KMeloney said:

Strong-grippers: Where in your stance are you playing the ball (for, say, a 7-iron)? And are you trying to hit the ball straight, or are you typically playing for a draw and trying to start it right and bring it back to your target?

2-1/2 knuckle lead hand grip, so not the strongest but definitely not weak either. Ball is played a ball width inside left heel, My stock 7-iron (170 yards) is a slight (3 yard) draw.

[Soloman1]

Here's a little test.

 

Take your stance with an iron, the face square against a flat surface like a door jam.

 

Move your entire body to your impact position.

 

Is the face still square against the door jam?

 

If it's open, a little stronger grip may work better for you.

[Obee]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:48 AM, reefrash1043 said:

Have always been a stronger grip player but saw a video the other day where it said if you have a slower swing that a weaker grip might work better for you. I played two rounds where my left thumb was right in line with the shaft (pretty weak) and I was absolutely flushing the ball. Maybe its a matchup thing or a swing speed/tempo thing but I was pretty blown away.

 

Anyone else experience this?

 

Yes. 
 

as I have aged and lost clubhead, speed and flexibility, I have switched to a much weaker grip—which has necessitated a completely different golf swing.

 

I played pretty good golf for years, with a very strong left-hand grip and a moderately, strong, right hand. I played very low. Trap draws, and low cuts with that grip. But it required a lot of side bend to get into a impact position.

 

I can no longer get into that position except when it is very warm and my body is feeling wonderful and I am hopped up on pain medication Also, because of my lack of clubhead speed, I have a difficult time hitting the ball high enough with that grip/move.

 

So I switched to a weaker grip and I am now able to hit the ball higher when I need to. The new move has also taken significant strain off of my back because it requires much less side bend at impact. Curious as to @MonteScheinblum's take here. Is what I am describing "a thing" for older golfers, other than myself?

[Jtgavigan]

I recently did the Mike Adams/Terry Rowles grip tests and found my right hand was way to strong for me. I have struggled with pull draws/hooks "out of the blue" for years now. 

 

I have played 3 rounds with the weaker grip and haven't had to worry about the big left miss again. I went from what they call "side/under" to "side/cover" and it started me on the right path. 

 

I am a big believer in their methodology. It gives everyone a starting point based on their own anatomy and capabilities.