My Friend Cheats At Golf

[lefty1978]

If not playing against you or for money, I don't care. 

[nitram]

20 hours ago, gaffs said:

I have had a golf friend now for the best part of 6 years who cheats.

 

I have seen him drop balls when looking for his as well as improve his lie. Then he will often "miscount" his score on a hole. He will start the hole with a callaway and end with a titleist.

 

The whole thing is puts me off my game. 

 

Despite this, he is a good guy. We have a lot in common and he is someone who has connected me to other players who I now call friends. He is kind of the "glue guy" that connects a lot people together, especially on golf trips we have been on where there have been 8, 12 or even 16 guys. He knows way more people than I do.

 

Im going on a 4 man golf trip with him in a couple of weeks, but im already starting to think about his cheating and how it puts me off.

 

What would you guys do?

Has any of the 8-16 playing partners ever say anything about it to him, or amongst yourselves?

[mshills]

This topic pops up all the time....all good, it's a discussion board after all but it's a head-scratcher for me.  Here's my position:

 

OP, if you're not playing for anything, you gotta get over it.  Worry more about your score and less about his.  If we aren't playing for anything you can post a 67 for all I care.

 

As soon as we are playing for anything, from a post-round cocktail to a $1500 Nassau, all of that B.S. stops, and you've got to be very direct with him before anyone hits their first shot.

 

The highest level of cheating IMO is sandbagging, and that I have no tolerance for, that's where a cheat can really make out.

[naval2006]

I think it is usual among golf buddies to play for something, or sign up on a tournament, or a golf trip.  In all those cases a cheat can be really disruptive.  My dad and his pals have had golf trips for years: they always organize matches and team competitions.  They found a guy cheating twice.  Different trip, different guy.  In both cases they didn't have a most memorable trip.  Those guys were never invited again.  

 

 

[gaffs]

3 hours ago, nitram said:

Has any of the 8-16 playing partners ever say anything about it to him, or amongst yourselves?

 

I think because he is kind-of "the glue" guy that has linked quite a lot of people together, they may be reluctant to call it out. 

[mshills]

What are y'all playing for?

 

Most golf trips involve some stakes, and like I said above, if there are any stakes whatsoever, cheating isn't going to fly in my group.  If there are no stakes and the guy is a vanity cap, in one ear and out the other!

 

A golf trip with absolutely nothing to play for is not what I'm accustomed to, however.

[Soloman1]

As everyone gathered on the first tee, Tony handed out a paper of the rules for the matches.

 

”And if any of youse guys get caught cheating, Vinny here has a baseball bat and will assess a two stroke penalty to your knees, get it?” Tony said as he glared at Gary, “The Glue,” Gilroy.

[Kdaniel72]

If he cheats at golf he cheats on a lot of other things. You learn a lot about a man from his golf game.

[kiwigolf72]

Call him out on it, if you don't you're just accepting your mate cheating as part of the game.

[Hawkeye77]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:15 AM, Soloman1 said:

If you don’t any money or comparing scores on the line, I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s a social event. Is he a tax accountant?

 

 

I had a friend I saw tossing one down when he thought nobody was looking and we were playing for $ (not a lot) - I let it go, just wasn’t worth it on a hot summer afternoon playing with some other fellow grad student friends but never looked at him the same. A few months later at his wedding reception I found out he’d just accepted a job with the CIA, lol, I congratulated him and told him most sincerely the job should be a perfect fit! 

[MountainKing]

On 10/9/2023 at 10:29 AM, gaffs said:

I have had a golf friend now for the best part of 6 years who cheats.

 

I have seen him drop balls when looking for his as well as improve his lie. Then he will often "miscount" his score on a hole. He will start the hole with a callaway and end with a titleist.

 

The whole thing is puts me off my game. 

 

Despite this, he is a good guy. We have a lot in common and he is someone who has connected me to other players who I now call friends. He is kind of the "glue guy" that connects a lot people together, especially on golf trips we have been on where there have been 8, 12 or even 16 guys. He knows way more people than I do.

 

Im going on a 4 man golf trip with him in a couple of weeks, but im already starting to think about his cheating and how it puts me off.

 

What would you guys do?

 

The old "cheats at golf" but "is a good guy".  If he cheats at golf, especially being obvious about it, then he is 100% doing shady things elsewhere in life (especially behind closed doors) when more important things are on the line.  I'd bet my life savings he is not a good guy. No way I'd go on a trip with him, and I would have dropped him from the golf group yesterday.

[rainkingjr]

Is your friend's name Smails?

[Strategery]

I view intentionally not playing by the rules and cheating as 2 different things. Cheating involves the intent to deceive. It's a lowlife move, hard to look past.

 

[EagleGSU]

As some others have said, if no money is on the line, or it's not specifically stated that it's going to be a straight up match then I wouldn't care at all. My goal is not to beat the people I happen to be playing with, it's to beat the goals I set for myself.

 

And I'd feel like such a loser calling someone out who struggles to break 90 on taking a free mulligan, or giving themselves a good lie in a casual round of golf. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by EagleGSU

[manku]

Unless you're playing for money or a tournament, it's not cheating.   Not everyone plays by the USGA rules, and it's still golf...as much as sticklers may not want to acknowlege.

 

I played 2 vs 1 Pickleball the other day, which probably isn't covered by the rules...yet no one will ever convince me that I wasn't playing pickelball.

 

Or 3 on 3 Basketball.

 

Or a Softball game with extra (or fewer) fielders.

 

For some reason, many golfers go nuts when people don't play by "the rules".

[miss0033]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:34 PM, manku said:

Unless you're playing for money or a tournament, it's not cheating.   Not everyone plays by the USGA rules, and it's still golf...as much as sticklers may not want to acknowlege.

 

I played 2 vs 1 Pickleball the other day, which probably isn't covered by the rules...yet no one will ever convince me that I wasn't playing pickelball.

 

Or 3 on 3 Basketball.

 

Or a Softball game with extra (or fewer) fielders.

 

For some reason, many golfers go nuts when people don't play by "the rules".

 

But in your 2v1 pickleball did you outright change a few rules?  Or did you still generally play within the rules of the game?  Other than number of players, did you decide to just ignore a host of other rules?  For 3on3 basketball, did one side determine that some of their shots were worth 4 points instead of 3?  I believe even though playing a different format, everyone agrees to a general set of rules.  In your 2v1 pickleball did you determine an out-of-bounds shot was actually in-bounds because the line marker was in a spot you didn't agree with?  If you aren't playing by the basketball rules, then you aren't playing basketball, you're just playing 3v3 "throw a ball around".  In pickleball you cannot just hit a shot wherever you want and say "no, that was in, that line indicating out of bounds is just arbitrary, and I don't agree with it."  The format can change; match play, stableford, nassau, etc. but the rules are generally still the rules.  If they aren't, then you aren't really playing golf.

 

Generally, yes, if we aren't playing for money and are just having fun, then who cares.  But if we are playing for money and/or you want the satisfaction of saying you "beat" me, then you sure as heck better be playing to the same agreed upon rules of golf the rest of us are.  The stuff that bugs me the most isn't the gray area rules.  Is the flat out ignoring penalty strokes, taking free relief when not warranted, and the oft 'miracle' found ball in woods/hazard that is strangely playable and a decent lie.  You started the hole with a pro V1, and finished with a really weathered Nike Mojo, yet you have no penalties?  The complete fabricated scores and then telling me you beat me.  That doesn't sit right with me, and I no longer want to play golf, or any other game for that matter, with that person.

 

[kiwigolf72]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:34 AM, manku said:

Unless you're playing for money or a tournament, it's not cheating.   Not everyone plays by the USGA rules, and it's still golf...as much as sticklers may not want to acknowlege.

 

I played 2 vs 1 Pickleball the other day, which probably isn't covered by the rules...yet no one will ever convince me that I wasn't playing pickelball.

 

Or 3 on 3 Basketball.

 

Or a Softball game with extra (or fewer) fielders.

 

For some reason, many golfers go nuts when people don't play by "the rules".

agree to disagree, you're playing something that looks like golf.

[mshills]

15 hours ago, miss0033 said:

But in your 2v1 pickleball did you outright change a few rules?  Or did you still generally play within the rules of the game?  Other than number of players, did you decide to just ignore a host of other rules?  For 3on3 basketball, did one side determine that some of their shots were worth 4 points instead of 3?  I believe even though playing a different format, everyone agrees to a general set of rules.  In your 2v1 pickleball did you determine an out-of-bounds shot was actually in-bounds because the line marker was in a spot you didn't agree with?  If you aren't playing by the basketball rules, then you aren't playing basketball, you're just playing 3v3 "throw a ball around".  In pickleball you cannot just hit a shot wherever you want and say "no, that was in, that line indicating out of bounds is just arbitrary, and I don't agree with it."  The format can change; match play, stableford, nassau, etc. but the rules are generally still the rules.  If they aren't, then you aren't really playing golf.

 

Generally, yes, if we aren't playing for money and are just having fun, then who cares.  But if we are playing for money and/or you want the satisfaction of saying you "beat" me, then you sure as heck better be playing to the same agreed upon rules of golf the rest of us are.  The stuff that bugs me the most isn't the gray area rules.  Is the flat out ignoring penalty strokes, taking free relief when not warranted, and the oft 'miracle' found ball in woods/hazard that is strangely playable and a decent lie.  You started the hole with a pro V1, and finished with a really weathered Nike Mojo, yet you have no penalties?  The complete fabricated scores and then telling me you beat me.  That doesn't sit right with me, and I no longer want to play golf, or any other game for that matter, with that person.

 

I think a primary difference is this weird grey area in golf.  If we aren't playing for anything, are we really competing and playing against each other?  I think we should be and I prefer to, however it just seems like it's more clear cut in other sports -- two on a basketball court, check ball and flip it to you, it's on, you are absolutely competing!  For whatever reason it gets weird in golf.

 

I've gotten where if it's not either an organized game / event or something tangible at stake (post round drink, a $0.25 Nassau, a $500 Nassau, whatever...), you do you and keep your own card.  Life's too short to go chasing some guy I've never met to make sure he takes that unplayable lie off the tree root versus "I'm taking relief so I don't get hurt. 🙄"

[manku]

17 hours ago, miss0033 said:

 

But in your 2v1 pickleball did you outright change a few rules?  Or did you still generally play within the rules of the game?  Other than number of players, did you decide to just ignore a host of other rules?  For 3on3 basketball, did one side determine that some of their shots were worth 4 points instead of 3?  I believe even though playing a different format, everyone agrees to a general set of rules.  In your 2v1 pickleball did you determine an out-of-bounds shot was actually in-bounds because the line marker was in a spot you didn't agree with?  If you aren't playing by the basketball rules, then you aren't playing basketball, you're just playing 3v3 "throw a ball around".  In pickleball you cannot just hit a shot wherever you want and say "no, that was in, that line indicating out of bounds is just arbitrary, and I don't agree with it."  The format can change; match play, stableford, nassau, etc. but the rules are generally still the rules.  If they aren't, then you aren't really playing golf.

 

Generally, yes, if we aren't playing for money and are just having fun, then who cares.  But if we are playing for money and/or you want the satisfaction of saying you "beat" me, then you sure as heck better be playing to the same agreed upon rules of golf the rest of us are.  The stuff that bugs me the most isn't the gray area rules.  Is the flat out ignoring penalty strokes, taking free relief when not warranted, and the oft 'miracle' found ball in woods/hazard that is strangely playable and a decent lie.  You started the hole with a pro V1, and finished with a really weathered Nike Mojo, yet you have no penalties?  The complete fabricated scores and then telling me you beat me.  That doesn't sit right with me, and I no longer want to play golf, or any other game for that matter, with that person.

 

 

When I play Pickleball, I frequently hit back shots that are out...and never argue over a call.  If the person cares that much, he can have the point.  It's a silly fun game, and I'm not going to get worked up over it.

 

We both agree on playing by the rules when money is on the line or its an organized tournament/event.  

 

But people seem to get all bent out of shape when strangers or their friends play by their own rules during non-competitive rounds...I just don't understand that.  

 

Friendships have ended over rules infractions or gambling disagreements, which are big reasons I no longer play competitively with my friends.   

[new2g0lf]

If it's not a tournament and/or money isn't involved I don't care what someone else does with regards to their score.  If it's a tournament, or we're playing for money I would either call them out or not play again with them for money.  We have a guy in our club who cheats frequently, he drops balls, throws his ball marker 3" past the ball, improves his lie, etc.  Some of his old buddies accept his cheating and will play in money games with him, but most won't.   In most cases it's about vanity, these guys can't handle they aren't as good a golfer as they want to be, and they don't want their handicap to go beyond a certain number.   Once you're labeled a cheater in a club it's a hard thing to come back from.