My Friend Cheats At Golf

[elwhippy]

He wouldn't be coming on a trip with me, or any of my playing partners. We play by the rules. Integrity is part of the game. 

[gaffs]

46 minutes ago, airjammer said:

I had a friend like this…among other things we are no longer friends. He was a really good athlete when he was a kid and then when puberty hit, he just got left behind and never recovered. That never stopped him from thinking he was still the best and who do whatever it took to remain that way in his mind. 
 

I’ve known people over the years similar to this friend and in general they aren’t people you want to do business with as they’ve had the tendency to put you down to keep themselves elevated. 

 

I think there is a little bit of that in there.

 

He is competitive in nature and has a good career, life etc. So perhaps finds it hard that he is not as good at golf as other people.

[miss0033]

2 hours ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

I don't really care until folks start bragging. Then it gets under my skin. Should it? Nahh.... But it does.

At least some folks will unknowingly post errant scores by a few strokes if they miscount penalties. I don't always assume everybody does it all the time on purpose. Though, when I see a guy shank not only his first drive, but his rehit, and then post a flattering score..... it bothers me to some extent.

Though, the factor of how much it bothers depends on how badly I'm playing..... LOL

 

 

 

This has been my thing lately.  A guy I used to play with is a similar skill level, and we didn't play for money, but he was always bragging about beating me by 2 or 3 strokes.  With his miraculous found ball in the woods/penalty area, consistently making me recount his strokes - "oh, yeah, I forgot that one..."  It gets old losing, even for no money, to someone not playing honestly.  Less enjoyable.  If he was playing honestly, then its a push to get better, but losing to a cheater sucks.  "Looks like I got you by 2 again"  F off.

 

The other thing bugging me.  I am an 18.2 handicap that cannot avoid the blow-up holes.  I keep reading articles about "the average golfer" scores this, shoots this, etc.  Well, I am also convinced the average golfer is a freaking liar.  The number of people I get paired with who hit breakfast balls on multiple holes, re-tee and don't count it as S&D, incorrect drops, automatic 2 putts, etc... its most of them.  "Write me down for a bogey" -- "Oh, okay. Wer'e just forgetting your OB off the tee and your 'practice shot' in the bunker, and the fact you picked up an 8' putt?"  Several fabricated holes on their way to a 78.  If people are satisfied with a falsified score, good for them I guess.  I'd rather have pars and birdies be actual pars and birdies.  Maybe I am playing with mostly with that average golfers or are just having bad days, but odds are over time I am not.

Edited October 9, 2023 by miss0033

[AmateurAmateur]

2 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Agreed. I once moved a ball off a tree root in a friendly match with an ex-pro, no money on the line, he called me out on it, and never played golf with me again because I said I had par when I didn’t. Lesson learned the hard way, because he is a good dude.

In friendly games, the only rule I won’t abide by is the fairway divot rule, and I will move it to the fairway. 

Hardly your fault. If someone is willing to end a friendship or acquaintanceship over your desire to not break your wrist, I say they're doing you a favour. Consistently fluffing lies under the illusion you're getting away with an advantage is completely different. 

[AmateurAmateur]

I think at the end of the day you have to ask what benefits not just you but the others you play golf with more: his friendship or his score. If you mention it to him and he lies to your face about it, then that says a lot about who he is as a person and something I would constitute as a red flag. If he simply owns up to it, there's no harm. He's not pretending to be someone he's not and nobody is at a loss for him doing so. 

If it really bothers you, just mention it to him. If he lies about it then you know about his character. 

[RoyalMustang]

One of my friends in the same way: he brags about his scores but when we play, it's pretty obvious that his scores aren't factoring in his mulligans (he takes 2 every round) and his hazards. Or his "gimmie" putts which I would never give. It adds up to 7-10 strokes a round. 

 

We don't play for money; I made that pretty obvious when he asked. We "score" differently is a polite way of saying it. 

 

I have worked with this guy in the past and he, unlike most golf cheats, doesn't seem to be that way outside of golf. He just thinks that golf should have mulligans and do-overs and likes to quote a cap that is unrealistic due to this. If he starts playing competitively, he'll learn real quickly that he's wrong. 

 

One thing my grandpa told me when I was young however: people who actively cheat in golf do so in real life as well. It's a game of honor, just like (most of) life is. It's what you do when people aren't looking that counts. Cheats aren't trustworthy. It always bothers me when I see golfers supporting a well-known golf cheat for a certain high level nationally elected office. I can't wrap my head around the cognitive dissonance.  

[RoyalMustang]

16 minutes ago, AmateurAmateur said:

Hardly your fault. If someone is willing to end a friendship or acquaintanceship over your desire to not break your wrist, I say they're doing you a favour. Consistently fluffing lies under the illusion you're getting away with an advantage is completely different. 

yeah, the pro should have noted "hey, you should just take an unplayable lie there: it's a one stroke penalty". That seems like an easy-fair remedy, especially if in your group, you move the ball not to gain advantage but to avoid injury. I know that's not the rules per-se but it's akin to giving someone a lift-clean-place drop in an unmaintained bunker. Also not in the rules but in a gentleman's game, it would be pretty typical or even the default rule if the course isn't well-maintained. 

 

 

[ALX]

3 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Agreed. I once moved a ball off a tree root in a friendly match with an ex-pro, no money on the line, he called me out on it, and never played golf with me again because I said I had par when I didn’t. Lesson learned the hard way, because he is a good dude.

In friendly games, the only rule I won’t abide by is the fairway divot rule, and I will move it to the fairway. 

Seems like a pretty hardo move to NEVER play with you again lol Especially if he was a pro, you'd figure he would give you some leeway assuming he's good enough to make up for that stroke anyway, plus no money on the line.

[ShortGolfer]

Last time I did a tree root shot I just tapped the ball onto the fairway with a very soft grip.  I took a chunk out of the tree root but didn't feel anything different in my hands.

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

3 hours ago, Phabs said:

I could careless if any of my buddies cheat when we play golf.  It's a game have fun...  You lost 5 balls and made par?  Cool next hole 

So that means you care. 😄

[Phabs]

2 minutes ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

So that means you care. 😄

Nah not really. 

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

Just now, Phabs said:

Nah not really. 

 

I totally get that; I was just being a smart aleck about the exact wording.... 😄 

[Phabs]

5 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Agreed. I once moved a ball off a tree root in a friendly match with an ex-pro, no money on the line, he called me out on it, and never played golf with me again because I said I had par when I didn’t. Lesson learned the hard way, because he is a good dude.

In friendly games, the only rule I won’t abide by is the fairway divot rule, and I will move it to the fairway. 

Yep pretty much my only two breaks I'll give myself in casual play.   I'm not tearing my wrist/elbow/arm up on a tree rootish lies and if my balls in the middle of the fairway in a divot I'm moving it. 

[elsie451]

I don't play for money or in tournaments, so I don't get too worked up over cheating, but I do get annoyed when a playing partner rubs a birdie in my face after he takes 2 mulligans off the tee and improves his lie in the rough.

[puttnforthe8]

2 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

I never said anything about him being wrong or an issue - maybe you should read my comment again. We weren’t playing for anything, and I just came off a broken hand so I get it, I took a 4 when it was a 5. Like I said, all good, I understood his reasoning.

No worries. my bad.   But I am never interacting with you again on this post! 🤣

[zengineer]

We all seem to be ignoring or avoiding the real dilemma.   The guy cheats and it bothers you...but he is also your social director and sort of the linchpin to a group that he brought you into. It's like the hot girl who smokes Camel non-filters or has bad table manners...it's a dilemma. 

 

You don't want to say anything to him because he might "cut you off" (in keeping with the analogy).  That may be a risk worth taking.

Edited October 9, 2023 by zengineer

[brutus27]

6 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Agreed. I once moved a ball off a tree root in a friendly match with an ex-pro, no money on the line, he called me out on it, and never played golf with me again because I said I had par when I didn’t. Lesson learned the hard way, because he is a good dude.

In friendly games, the only rule I won’t abide by is the fairway divot rule, and I will move it to the fairway. 

I get it, it was a match. Also, dude just didn’t like you. You learned something, as did he . In my opinion, play it as it lies even in divots is the rule. It so satisfying to hit a decent shot out of a bad lie. You have to in tournaments so you might as well always play it down. Guys that are known to have cheated never can shake that label. At the end of the day we all know, especially better players knows who is shady. 

Just my two cents.

[sailfishchris]

I don’t say this lightly………. Stick him with the bar tab. 

[st1800e]

Say things like this, not directly to him but to the group, or to no one in particular:

 

I made a six on the last hole, with the same ball I started with...

I had a really bad lie on my second shot, but I somehow managed to dig it out, and made a pretty good bogey....

 

Or whatever fits the situation.  Eventually he might catch on 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by st1800e

[Brooks_Cupcake]

17 minutes ago, brutus27 said:

I get it, it was a match. Also, dude just didn’t like you. You learned something, as did he . In my opinion, play it as it lies even in divots is the rule. It so satisfying to hit a decent shot out of a bad lie. You have to in tournaments so you might as well always play it down. Guys that are known to have cheated never can shake that label. At the end of the day we all know, especially better players knows who is shady. 

Just my two cents.

Not accurate, it wasn’t a match, we weren’t even playing against each other. And definitely wasn’t the case that he didn’t like me, he was the one inviting me out to play and also setting up times. I also play tournament golf, so I’m well aware of all rules and ensuring following them or at least asking for clarification if I think I may or may not have broken a rule. For example, I once missed the inter-club team by one shot because I walked into a bunker on day 2 of Qualifying, on the 17th hole and threw a rake behind me. I proceeded to get up and down, marked my 3 and went on to birdie the last. I made it under the number by one. My playing partner let me know of the penalty after I turned in my scorecard for “testing the sand.”  I didn’t even know that was a rule, nor did I even intend to break that rule, but I learned the hard way there. Bush league call IMO as I didn’t even look at the rake, nor did I throw it in my line of site, but before the rule was changed, that was a penalty. I also never talked to that guy again.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Brooks_Cupcake

[kiwigolf72]

44 minutes ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Not accurate, it wasn’t a match, we weren’t even playing against each other. And definitely wasn’t the case that he didn’t like me, he was the one inviting me out to play and also setting up times. I also play tournament golf, so I’m well aware of all rules and ensuring following them or at least asking for clarification if I think I may or may not have broken a rule. For example, I once missed the inter-club team by one shot because I walked into a bunker on day 2 of Qualifying, on the 17th hole and threw a rake behind me. I proceeded to get up and down, marked my 3 and went on to birdie the last. I made it under the number by one. My playing partner let me know of the penalty after I turned in my scorecard for “testing the sand.”  I didn’t even know that was a rule, nor did I even intend to break that rule, but I learned the hard way there. Bush league call IMO as I didn’t even look at the rake, nor did I throw it in my line of site, but before the rule was changed, that was a penalty. I also never talked to that guy again.

what? I would have got a second opinion on that ruling.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

6 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

what? I would have got a second opinion on that ruling.

It was before they changed the rule apparently. All good! 

[2bGood]

6 hours ago, Fuscinator said:

The next time you catch him cheating, chuckle about it and tell him how my wife tees her ball up in the fairway because she can't hit it off the ground.  (She also runs between shots so she won't hold anyone up.)

 

I agree with this 100%. The guys I play with enjoy joking around. When someone pulls a cheating move, it is not a serous intervention, it is guys making fun of them. The cheating is pointed out and they will be the butt of the joke for a while. One guys still hears about his cheating years later. If that does not work, people tend to stop playing with them.

[2bGood]

7 hours ago, ApostateDrive said:

 

Never playing golf with you again is ridiculous. We aren't sponsored by the OEM's, so I'm not gonna potentially wreck a club on a freaking tree root. So silly.

 

7 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

I’d be much more concerned about wrists than my club. 
 

And yes, no betting with a cheater. 

 

4 hours ago, AmateurAmateur said:

Hardly your fault. If someone is willing to end a friendship or acquaintanceship over your desire to not break your wrist, I say they're doing you a favour. Consistently fluffing lies under the illusion you're getting away with an advantage is completely different. 

 

It is a slippery slope. Most people breaking the rules, rationalise why it is okay. "I don't want to break my wrist on a root" is just another rationalisation. You hit a bad shot in the woods, take your medicine. If you don't like the lie, take an unplayable or chip or putt the ball off the root. No need to break a club or damage your wrist, you have lots of other options at the cost of one stroke. Why trade one stroke for your integrity. 

 

Now if you are out playing a hit and giggle for fun, then sure go ahead, there are no rules any way but if you are playing by the rules, then follow the rules.

 

 

[brutus27]

1 hour ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Not accurate, it wasn’t a match, we weren’t even playing against each other. And definitely wasn’t the case that he didn’t like me, he was the one inviting me out to play and also setting up times. I also play tournament golf, so I’m well aware of all rules and ensuring following them or at least asking for clarification if I think I may or may not have broken a rule. For example, I once missed the inter-club team by one shot because I walked into a bunker on day 2 of Qualifying, on the 17th hole and threw a rake behind me. I proceeded to get up and down, marked my 3 and went on to birdie the last. I made it under the number by one. My playing partner let me know of the penalty after I turned in my scorecard for “testing the sand.”  I didn’t even know that was a rule, nor did I even intend to break that rule, but I learned the hard way there. Bush league call IMO as I didn’t even look at the rake, nor did I throw it in my line of site, but before the rule was changed, that was a penalty. I also never talked to that guy again.

Sorry, my bad, you stated friendly “match”. 
As poster mentioned above, I guess it was hit and giggle golf.

[Nickb333]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

 

 

It is a slippery slope. Most people breaking the rules, rationalise why it is okay. "I don't want to break my wrist on a root" is just another rationalisation. You hit a bad shot in the woods, take your medicine. If you don't like the lie, take an unplayable or chip or putt the ball off the root. No need to break a club or damage your wrist, you have lots of other options at the cost of one stroke. Why trade one stroke for your integrity. 

 

Now if you are out playing a hit and giggle for fun, then sure go ahead, there are no rules any way but if you are playing by the rules, then follow the rules.

 

 

I didn’t suggest not counting an unplayable in a tournament, match or other competition was ok. My comment was purely a priority issue. Longevity of health vs a damaged club. 

[2bGood]

42 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

I didn’t suggest not counting an unplayable in a tournament, match or other competition was ok. My comment was purely a priority issue. Longevity of health vs a damaged club. 

 

Like I say, if you are not playing by the rules then sure why not, do as you please. Have fun.

 

If you are playing by the rules, even for fun, then why not just take the extra stroke? I am not suggesting you have to damage your club or hurt yourself, the rules allow you to move the ball. You just need to count the stroke for taking unplayable penalty relief to do it. 

 

It is really pretty funny to me that people will say they are playing for fun, but then are worried about counting the extra stroke. Which is it? 

 

[Nickb333]

8 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

 

Like I say, if you are not playing by the rules then sure why not, do as you please. Have fun.

 

If you are playing by the rules, even for fun, then why not just take the extra stroke? I am not suggesting you have to damage your club or hurt yourself, the rules allow you to move the ball. You just need to count the stroke for taking unplayable penalty relief to do it. 

 

It is really pretty funny to me that people will say they are playing for fun, but then are worried about counting the extra stroke. Which is it? 

 

Again, I never suggested it was OK to ignore the rules. 

[llewol007]

If you aren’t playing for money or are in a tournament, don’t get too caught up in it. I have a lot of buddies and see a lot of player bump the ball every chance they get and I don’t call them on it. At the end of the day, it’s their score and game that they are okay with. I had a golf buddy who would wait for anybody to give him his putt on the green when he was about 2 to 3 feet out. It became routine to the point where he expected. We all played in a little club championship and sure enough, he could not make a putt inside 3 feet. When the player has to actually show up, not bump and putt everything out, it will reveal itself.

[Jackal]

We have a guy that does that.

He's in his mid 60s and cheats on his handicap.

His buddy will turn in handicaps, while playing from the white/gold tees.

Then play from the golds.

He is only 52, but insists on playing the golds.

No one will play with those 2, or let them in tournaments.

I don't get to play or practice much, and I'm proud to shoot my 90.

 It is what it is.

I have fun, and it doesn't slow the others down that are in my group.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Jackal