How would Tom Watson fare today?

[elwhippy]

A man with Tom's determination would do just fine. He was a tough competitor and knew how to win. 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

Addiction?  Alcohol? 

Nicklaus had a catty comment at one point that if Tom put in the work at putting as much as he did a wine list, he wouldn't have the yipping problem he later picked up.

 

Whether this was said in the wake of Watson kicking his butt again, I couldn't tell you.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

I am still pissed off at Stewart Cink from the 2009 British Open.  That aside, Watson would be a top 25 player, top 10 in the category of "gentleman golfer" and top 5 in marital trouble. 

 

 

It was a different time, as far as the last one goes.  It's interesting to think of how previous vintage sports celebrities would have coped with today's 24-hour media and omnipresent camera phones.  The groupies, such as they are, on the PGA Tour back then were very attractive.

 

John Daly has to be at least on the Mt. Rushmore of that trait, right?

[gvogel]

1 minute ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Nicklaus had a catty comment at one point that if Tom put in the work at putting as much as he did a wine list, he wouldn't have the yipping problem he later picked up.

 

Whether this was said in the wake of Watson kicking his butt again, I couldn't tell you.

I believe that Jack was helpful in getting Tom the help he needed.  The two of them helped Feherty.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

30 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

Today, Tom Watson would still be competitive. Modern drivers and custom shafts would help him keep also.

 

Also, Watson would have edge on tournament courses set up with harsh playing conditions. He grew up getting it done on courses not as nicely manicured as those of today. He could pull off shots not all modern pros have mastered. Case in point, 1982 US Open.

 

 

It's an easier shot than it looks.  It funnels right to the hole from there, IME.

 

Albeit I didn't have the alfalfa field rough when I did it, it certainly wasn't under Open pressure or crowds, and I'm sure the greens were a teensy bit faster than they are for resort play.

 

I think Tom would be very successful if mid-20s Tom Watson appeared on the 2024 PGA Tour.  Lots of guys using their brains now though to get ahead.

[mosesgolf]

Tom Watson best Jack often especially at Majors so he'd likely do very well today too.  

[Dutch1008]

7 hours ago, gvogel said:

How would the Tom Watson of 1975 - 1983 do in today's professional world?  I am thinking of the Watson who really made a great move through the ball with his woods and irons.

 

Would he have been outstanding, or just part of the pack?

 

What's the argument that he wouldn't have been outstanding? I see two scenarios...

 

The time travel scenario - Doc Brown picks up Tom Watson in 1977 and brings him to 2024 in his DeLorean. This Tom probably becomes just one of the pack but probably still talented enough to adjust to the modern game and be a professional. 

 

The born in 2000 scenario. The natural talent (hand eye coordination, mental toughness, etc) is still there but now he grows up watching Tiger, strength training, prioritizing speed. This Tom is likely outstanding.   

 

 

[manku]

All these comments about Watson remind of the famous quote...not sure who said it first:

 

"90% of my money I spent on broads and booze.   I blew the rest"

 

YOLO!

[stinger_gc]

He’d be the captain for the 4ACES and we’d get Gary Player! 

[PeterJP]

It seems like a difficult/complicated question, and maybe it is. But to me it's simple: one of the premier ball-strikers and iron players of all time, who hit it so solid that he could win 5 Opens and compete for a 6th at 59 years old, who had the ideal temperament for golf and much mental toughness, and who once had a truly outstanding short game on and around the greens, would fare very well indeed -- any time, any place, and against any competition. The fact that he actually did just that, in the modern-Tiger era (i.e., as late as 2009), is more than enough proof, and the icing on the cake. 

 

Edited March 6 by PeterJP

[Shilgy]

8 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Oh boy.

 

Could Judah Ben Hur win the Daytona 500?

Based on some of the comments Ol’ Ben would win the Indy 500 in his chariot against these guys today.

 

That said Tom was a great player.  I would put him in the top 5 today with a Xander Schauffele type of game.

 

One thing he’d have to watch out for if my memory serves is as he aged and the greens on tour sped up he had a bit of an issue with the comeback putts.  He was a very aggressive first putter and when he was younger and the greens were slower was very adept at making the comeback putt.  Would that translate today? He’d probably figure out a more conservative pace.

 

All said? More of a Rory type career with 20-25 wins and a few majors. Nothing to sneeze at but less than the 39 & 8 he won then.

[widow-maker]

Tom Watson won 8 Majors and played high level golf into his early 60's.  What are we talking about here.  Today's equipment would only make him better.  It's what's between the ears and sheer will that set Watson apart from most of the other players he competed against.  I'd assume he'd still be bringing those characteristics to the table with him.  Nice guy Tom was an image he portrayed.  The guy was a killer on the golf course.  If Greg Norman had Tom Watson's grit on the golf course he'd have won double digit Majors.  

[mosesgolf]

The man won 5.99 Opens.  Unlucky bounce on 18th prevented #6 at the age of 59.  Jack came in 2nd 4 times in Tom Watson's 8 major wins.  That speaks volumes.    The all time greats would be all time greats in any era.   His record speaks for itself.    Well maybe not so for Gary Player.   He will do all the speaking for himself lol.  

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, widow-maker said:

Tom Watson won 8 Majors and played high level golf into his early 60's.  What are we talking about here.  Today's equipment would only make him better.  It's what's between the ears and sheer will that set Watson apart from most of the other players he competed against.  I'd assume he'd still be bringing those characteristics to the table with him.  Nice guy Tom was an image he portrayed.  The guy was a killer on the golf course.  If Greg Norman had Tom Watson's grit on the golf course he'd have won double digit Majors.  

I guess that’s why there’s really only two players, imo, on golf’s Mount Rushmore.  They had the skills and the grit to persevere.

 

Jack and Tiger.

2 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

The man won 5.99 Opens.  Unlucky bounce on 18th prevented #6 at the age of 59.  Jack came in 2nd 4 times in Tom Watson's 8 major wins.  That speaks volumes.    The all time greats would be all time greats in any era.   His record speaks for itself.    Well maybe not so for Gary Player.   He will do all the speaking for himself lol.  

I've always questioned the bolded a bit.  Some have said, quite a few really have said, “the greats would be all time greats in any era” and some will add they would win the same amount in any era.  Which is a premise the math just doesn’t work.

 I’m not going to go back and do the math again but here’s the point:

Move Snead Hogan Nelson and there insanely high percentage of wins to the Jack Arnie Gary Tom Johnny Casper era.  There’s not enough events for them all to win at the same clip.

 

Go to the extreme and have those players plus Tiger Phil Seve Faldo Jones Hagen Sarazen and company join the players above.  Maybe just take ALL of the top 50 winners of all time on the PGA Tour and have them play a full season…or even a decade.

 

Theyre all “all time greats but they can’t all win the same percentage of events as they did in their era.  The reason is, of course, there are not enough events to go around.  Couple that with the fact that as time goes on and the depth increases it is more difficult to win many tens of times.

 

Look at this list of all time wins on tour and see how many were born well over a century ago and tell me it’s apples to apples.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_golfers_with_most_PGA_Tour_wins

 

 

 

[isaacbm]

Watson was shooting under his age at 65 on the champions tour. He came second in a major almost as recently as Rory won his last.
 

I think he’d do alright. 

[iBanesto]

A fantastic day of golf.

 

[jamiesd]

Simply one of the greats. 

[NevinW]

As with Nicklaus, He would dominate.  

[mosesgolf]

13 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I guess that’s why there’s really only two players, imo, on golf’s Mount Rushmore.  They had the skills and the grit to persevere.

 

Jack and Tiger.

I've always questioned the bolded a bit.  Some have said, quite a few really have said, “the greats would be all time greats in any era” and some will add they would win the same amount in any era.  Which is a premise the math just doesn’t work.

 I’m not going to go back and do the math again but here’s the point:

Move Snead Hogan Nelson and there insanely high percentage of wins to the Jack Arnie Gary Tom Johnny Casper era.  There’s not enough events for them all to win at the same clip.

 

Go to the extreme and have those players plus Tiger Phil Seve Faldo Jones Hagen Sarazen and company join the players above.  Maybe just take ALL of the top 50 winners of all time on the PGA Tour and have them play a full season…or even a decade.

 

Theyre all “all time greats but they can’t all win the same percentage of events as they did in their era.  The reason is, of course, there are not enough events to go around.  Couple that with the fact that as time goes on and the depth increases it is more difficult to win many tens of times.

 

Look at this list of all time wins on tour and see how many were born well over a century ago and tell me it’s apples to apples.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_golfers_with_most_PGA_Tour_wins

 

 

 

IMO we will never see win rates of yesteryear, 8 or majors and 40+ wins in our lifetime or ever.   We will likely never see another Tigeresque career ever again.  Even doing what Phil did will be quite difficult (30+ wins & 6 majors).  What I meant in my post was that the All Time Greats like a Tom Watson would be a dominant player in todays game.  By dominant I mean that he would be one of the best of any generation he plays in.  Today's global super deep depth fields means that anyone who gets 20+ wins and 4-5 majors will be quite the achievement.    This imo would be Tom Watson's achievement if he were to play today.

 

Tom Watson was a closer.  When he got the lead or near the lead his tendency was to close them out for the win which is something we don't see much of these days.

[golferdude54]

Any player who won the Vardon Trophy for lowest scoring average, was the tour's leading money winner and victory leader (most wins in the year/season), and won 2 majors in the same year, would do well in any era. Such was the case for Tom Watson in 1977.

[m d g]

 

Well, he's 74 years old, so probably not so great...

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

IMO we will never see win rates of yesteryear, 8 or majors and 40+ wins in our lifetime or ever.   We will likely never see another Tigeresque career ever again.  Even doing what Phil did will be quite difficult (30+ wins & 6 majors).  What I meant in my post was that the All Time Greats like a Tom Watson would be a dominant player in todays game.  By dominant I mean that he would be one of the best of any generation he plays in.  Today's global super deep depth fields means that anyone who gets 20+ wins and 4-5 majors will be quite the achievement.    This imo would be Tom Watson's achievement if he were to play today.

 

Tom Watson was a closer.  When he got the lead or near the lead his tendency was to close them out for the win which is something we don't see much of these days.

Which pretty much jives with what I had said earlier.👍

[Golfnutgalen]

2 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

IMO we will never see win rates of yesteryear, 8 or majors and 40+ wins in our lifetime or ever.   We will likely never see another Tigeresque career ever again.  Even doing what Phil did will be quite difficult (30+ wins & 6 majors).  What I meant in my post was that the All Time Greats like a Tom Watson would be a dominant player in todays game.  By dominant I mean that he would be one of the best of any generation he plays in.  Today's global super deep depth fields means that anyone who gets 20+ wins and 4-5 majors will be quite the achievement.    This imo would be Tom Watson's achievement if he were to play today.

 

Tom Watson was a closer.  When he got the lead or near the lead his tendency was to close them out for the win which is something we don't see much of these days.

 

I want to agree with you, but never? That seems like hyperbole. Koepka already has 5 majors he's proven it's possible theoretically to reach 8+. Rory could have done it based on his career trajectory.

 

What Tiger did winning 82 events was absurd and even makes Phil's 45 wins look paltry in comparison or Tom Watson's 39 for that matter. But we are talking about Tom and Phil, two players who deserve to be ranked alongside Arnold Palmer, Gary Player and even Hogan, Snead, and Nelson as the greatest who ever played this game. Their careers are over, the modern generation has just begun. Rory for example already has 24 wins, I say he's guaranteed to win 30 and 40 is still not completely out of reach.

 

A Player with the ability of Tiger or Jack could still win 10+ majors and 50+ events. But those guys are rare and we shouldn't expect so see anyone like that soon. 

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

How would Tom do today? 

[Shilgy]

24 minutes ago, Golfnutgalen said:

 

I want to agree with you, but never? That seems like hyperbole. Koepka already has 5 majors he's proven it's possible theoretically to reach 8+. Rory could have done it based on his career trajectory.

 

What Tiger did winning 82 events was absurd and even makes Phil's 45 wins look paltry in comparison or Tom Watson's 39 for that matter. But we are talking about Tom and Phil, two players who deserve to be ranked alongside Arnold Palmer, Gary Player and even Hogan, Snead, and Nelson as the greatest who ever played this game. Their careers are over, the modern generation has just begun. Rory for example already has 24 wins, I say he's guaranteed to win 30 and 40 is still not completely out of reach.

 

A Player with the ability of Tiger or Jack could still win 10+ majors and 50+ events. But those guys are rare and we shouldn't expect so see anyone like that soon. 

 

 

Agreed Rory has a great chance at 30 and much lesser chance to hit 40.  But he’s certainly not guaranteed to make 30.

 

Back in the day everyone was saying Tiger was a lock to hit 100 wins and 25 majors.  Sounds silly now but he had amassed 71 wins and 14 majors by the time he was Rory’s age.

[Golfnutgalen]

20 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Agreed Rory has a great chance at 30 and much lesser chance to hit 40.  But he’s certainly not guaranteed to make 30.

 

Back in the day everyone was saying Tiger was a lock to hit 100 wins and 25 majors.  Sounds silly now but he had amassed 71 wins and 14 majors by the time he was Rory’s age.

All but guaranteed then. 6 wins is nothing - for a player of Rory's caliber.

 

Even Tiger post scandal and injury ridden was able to do that in just 2012-2013.

 

Rory is still the #2 ranked player on the planet and the best driver of a golf ball outside of maybe Bryson. I guess a freak accident could stop him.

Edited March 7 by Golfnutgalen

[Nickb333]

1 hour ago, Golfnutgalen said:

All but guaranteed then. 6 wins is nothing - for a player of Rory's caliber.

 

Even Tiger post scandal and injury ridden was able to do that in just 2012-2013.

 

Rory is still the #2 ranked player on the planet and the best driver of a golf ball outside of maybe Bryson. I guess a freak accident could stop him.

Or his short game…

 

Mostly kidding. But seriously, Jack and Tiger kind of broke the mold for dominance. With a bit in their teeth, coming down the stretch, they never needed to be hit with the whip. They were holding the whip.

 

These days it seems rare to see a player as focused as those two. Maybe Rahm once in a while? 
 

Anyway, Tom would likely have done everything and more today. Skilled competitors like him raise their performance to beat their opponents. That’s just the way human nature works.