never thought I’d ever lose interest in pgatour golf

[Titleist99]

11 minutes ago, billyspan said:

You absolutely have a point here.

 

I think the PGA Tour did MOST things well in the post-Tiger world.  TV contracts grew, uprses continued to grow,  sponsors continued to be signed, number of tournaments was increased thus increasing playing opportunities for the members, the Korn Ferry Tour & PGA Tour America's remained feeder tours for the big show (long-term investment), co-sanctioned events happening around the world, European Tour alliances, etc.

 

However, the TV viewer's experience suffered with choppy telecasts due to heavy commercial load, the Playing Through feature, etc.  This was going to catch up with them at some point.  However, if the networks would only increase $ with greater commercial time...money won out.  If the last hour or 90 mins on the weekend was commercial-free or sponsored, things would be much different IMO.

 

Ads pay for content. Just that simple unless you have a generous Regine that couldn't care less about profit or a return on investments.

 

PS/ I will say that we'll have a limited commercial interruption tournament come the first week in April.

Edited March 11 by Titleist99

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, 3whacker said:

I think you are right about dropping it to 45, but until the mighty USGA drops the age requirements on Seniors, the Champions Tour will remain where it is

This happens to be Greg Normans Idea back in the day. It's now a reality.

[Barnacle]

15 hours ago, idrive said:

 

They've?? You mean Greg?

 

Everything was fine until Greg showed with unlimited funds and a goofy format.

 

They should have named it "The Clowns Ego Circus Exhibition."

Both parties are definitely at fault. PGA used its prestige to punish those who left, instead of just being okay with some players playing both tours just like how PGA players can play on the PGA, the DP, the Asian Tour etc. It turned into a cluster that didn't need to happen. 

That said, of the big names that stayed on the tour most of them are struggling to perform at a consistent level through a tournament. For instance JT got to -7 on the front and finished -3 for the tournament shooting +4 on the back 9. Rory performed well on the DP and then gets over to the PGA and wets the bed. Spieth can't seem to string a couple rounds together. 

Now if Scheffler can dominate by putting like he did Sunday then that could be fun to watch. He's not as animated as Tiger but if his putting is on every aspect of his game is Prime Tiger level. He definitely needs to win at least one major this year. 

[idrive]

11 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Both parties are definitely at fault. PGA used its prestige to punish those who left, instead of just being okay with some players playing both tours just like how PGA players can play on the PGA, the DP, the Asian Tour etc. It turned into a cluster that didn't need to happen. 

That said, of the big names that stayed on the tour most of them are struggling to perform at a consistent level through a tournament. For instance JT got to -7 on the front and finished -3 for the tournament shooting +4 on the back 9. Rory performed well on the DP and then gets over to the PGA and wets the bed. Spieth can't seem to string a couple rounds together. 

Now if Scheffler can dominate by putting like he did Sunday then that could be fun to watch. He's not as animated as Tiger but if his putting is on every aspect of his game is Prime Tiger level. He definitely needs to win at least one major this year. 

 

IMO, you're still missing the fact that none of this PGAT screwed up their response etc. crap would have ever happened if it wasn't for Greg coming in to try and take down the PGAT. Greg is only going to be happy if he is the King/top dog.

 

This has been his goal for the last 30 years after they didn't implement the system he wanted to see. His revenge has been his goal since.

 

Each and every player struggles at some point. Whether it be for a few weeks, a few years or they possibly just lose it entirely.

 

Me thinks there's a lot of history between Greg and the PGAT you're not aware of.  😉

[BURKMI19]

The PGA Tour week-to-week has a problem and it always has because the schedule is too long.  The fact that the tour can't provide a living to regular members unless they play 30 weeks a year is sad and it always will be.  If the PGA Tour took the approach of eliminating all these "categories" and had actual defined membership along with not offering a saturated schedule, we the viewers would get better products.  "We want to provide as many playing opportunities for our members as possible" is such a weak statement which to me means "we believe in quantity over quality".  Quit with this independent contractor garbage and turn it into an actual pro league like the big four.  Have a set membership committed to a schedule plus playoffs and majors.  Every member plays each event and we get a conclusion before NFL starts.  Guarantee a base pay because they sign a contract, each event has a 36-hole cut to the top 72 for the weekend.  Then performance based comp for each event those who make the cut.  With a 16 event season and the majors the guys play 20 weeks spread out between Jan-Aug.  Then we get an actual off season and things like LIV would have no conflict because they can run between sep-dec for anyone who wants.

[italianstallion]

12 minutes ago, BURKMI19 said:

The PGA Tour week-to-week has a problem and it always has because the schedule is too long.  The fact that the tour can't provide a living to regular members unless they play 30 weeks a year is sad and it always will be.  If the PGA Tour took the approach of eliminating all these "categories" and had actual defined membership along with not offering a saturated schedule, we the viewers would get better products.  "We want to provide as many playing opportunities for our members as possible" is such a weak statement which to me means "we believe in quantity over quality".  Quit with this independent contractor garbage and turn it into an actual pro league like the big four.  Have a set membership committed to a schedule plus playoffs and majors.  Every member plays each event and we get a conclusion before NFL starts.  Guarantee a base pay because they sign a contract, each event has a 36-hole cut to the top 72 for the weekend.  Then performance based comp for each event those who make the cut.  With a 16 event season and the majors the guys play 20 weeks spread out between Jan-Aug.  Then we get an actual off season and things like LIV would have no conflict because they can run between sep-dec for anyone who wants.

 

With purses where they're at, if someone plays 30 events a year and can't provide a living for themselves then that's a personal problem and not a TOUR problem.

[clinkinfo]

On 3/7/2024 at 4:37 AM, juliette91 said:

but i have and it felt like a loss at first.  but now i have more time to actually do things other than watch golf on tv!

 

Me too.  Used to love to watch, now it's pretty painful and pathetic most weeks.  I think the pga underestimated the impact of liv

[jimb6golf]

Seems that after all the PIF, LIV and SSG talk the PGA Tour has become a little boring lately.  The bigger name players only play in the premier events and even then don't really shine and may only be there for the guaranteed money.  Rory barely contends and looks bored playing, and the rest of them show little to no emotion.  I'm a big golf fan and watch most events but even I am having trouble lately.  The swings have become robotic and there's less characters than in the past with Arnie, Lee, Stadler, Seve, etc. who showed emotion while playing.  I know I'm only venting but wondering about others thoughts.  And not for nothing LIV is unwatchable too.

[me05501]

1 hour ago, BURKMI19 said:

The PGA Tour week-to-week has a problem and it always has because the schedule is too long.  The fact that the tour can't provide a living to regular members unless they play 30 weeks a year is sad and it always will be.  If the PGA Tour took the approach of eliminating all these "categories" and had actual defined membership along with not offering a saturated schedule, we the viewers would get better products.  "We want to provide as many playing opportunities for our members as possible" is such a weak statement which to me means "we believe in quantity over quality".  Quit with this independent contractor garbage and turn it into an actual pro league like the big four.  Have a set membership committed to a schedule plus playoffs and majors.  Every member plays each event and we get a conclusion before NFL starts.  Guarantee a base pay because they sign a contract, each event has a 36-hole cut to the top 72 for the weekend.  Then performance based comp for each event those who make the cut.  With a 16 event season and the majors the guys play 20 weeks spread out between Jan-Aug.  Then we get an actual off season and things like LIV would have no conflict because they can run between sep-dec for anyone who wants.

 

I think a player who earns a PGAT card should get a stipend for each week he plays in a PGAT event, at least enough to cover his expenses for traveling there, playing in the Pro Am, paying his caddie and having a place to sleep at night. 

[stinger_gc]

13 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

I think a player who earns a PGAT card should get a stipend for each week he plays in a PGAT event, at least enough to cover his expenses for traveling there, playing in the Pro Am, paying his caddie and having a place to sleep at night. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/pga-tour-announces-sweeping-changes-including-guaranteed-money-elevated-events
 

Already happening as of last year:

 

“The Tour will also add an earnings assurance program, which guarantees players at the Korn Ferry Tour priority category and above will earn at least $500,000, with the circuit funding any gap in earnings at the end of the season. Rookies and other players earning their way onto the PGA Tour will have the option to receive an upfront payment. The Tour will also start a travel stipend program, giving $5,000 to each player for every missed cut for non-exempt members (126-150 category and below).”

 

 

[Titleist99]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:29 AM, jordan2240 said:

I agree it's not the same, but watching some of the unknowns fight for a first win has been more entertaining than I thought it would be.

Not too long ago (approx. 2 years ago) Scottie Scheffler was basically unknown as a professional. Just look at him now.

[Titleist99]

6 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/pga-tour-announces-sweeping-changes-including-guaranteed-money-elevated-events
 

Already happening as of last year:

 

“The Tour will also add an earnings assurance program, which guarantees players at the Korn Ferry Tour priority category and above will earn at least $500,000, with the circuit funding any gap in earnings at the end of the season. Rookies and other players earning their way onto the PGA Tour will have the option to receive an upfront payment. The Tour will also start a travel stipend program, giving $5,000 to each player for every missed cut for non-exempt members (126-150 category and below).”

 

 

Last year this only affected eight players. It's an advancement on future earnings.

[SurfDuffer]

3 hours ago, Barnacle said:

Both parties are definitely at fault. PGA used its prestige to punish those who left, instead of just being okay with some players playing both tours just like how PGA players can play on the PGA, the DP, the Asian Tour etc. It turned into a cluster that didn't need to happen. 

That said, of the big names that stayed on the tour most of them are struggling to perform at a consistent level through a tournament. For instance JT got to -7 on the front and finished -3 for the tournament shooting +4 on the back 9. Rory performed well on the DP and then gets over to the PGA and wets the bed. Spieth can't seem to string a couple rounds together. 

 

Thank you for stating that better than I did.   It didn't have to be that way.  For that I place most of the blame on the PGA Tour.

[Dutch1008]

3 hours ago, Barnacle said:

Both parties are definitely at fault. PGA used its prestige to punish those who left, instead of just being okay with some players playing both tours just like how PGA players can play on the PGA, the DP, the Asian Tour etc. It turned into a cluster that didn't need to happen. 

 

That's not how any of this works. Players we're never allowed to simply bounce around tours. There has always been an established protocol for conflicting event releases. It never had anything to do with punishing players, it was about protecting the value of the business. The PGAT is in the business of hosting tournaments and selling the media rights of those tournaments. The value of those rights are a function of the assets those rights cover. 

 

Perhaps this is best explained by looking at another sport in absolute turmoil, college football. The broadcast rights for the Pac-12 conference were worth a lot more before USC and UCLA decided to jump ship to the Big 10. That domino led to others leaving and has ultimately left the Pac-2 rights worthless. That is was the PGAT was fighting against. 

 

LIV was not designed to compliment or supplement the tour. It was structured to replace the PGAT as the premier golf association. Top players are going to play ~25x / year. Exclude the majors and your down to 21 events. Pull out 14 LIV events and your down to 7. How valuable are the PGAT media rights when they only have the top players for 7 of the 40+ events they conduct? 

 

Unless the players committed to playing a lot more golf, or the PIF lowered their ambitions, there was never going to be a workable solution. 

 

 

[beluga99]

Agree with the OP, PGA tour was ok before now it's dull.  Seems very homogenized.  I did enjoy the villainy and the competition between the top players prior to LIV, which has now diminished.  Not really interested in "he was waiting tables and living in the boot of his car trying to get status only two years ago..." stories.  Yawn.  The growing interest in the Majors is a positive side effect, as it's "good vs evil" when both tour's players come back together. 

 

I'm no LIV apologist, but I did enjoy Brooks and Phil playing so well in the Masters last year, especially when LIV was being called a tinpot retirement tour, and non competitive.  Cream always rises to the top. 

 

I wonder if they'll still keep trying to label The Players as the "5th major" this week, even though it's clearly not, and now the field is weaker than it's ever been.  Probably.

[Barnacle]

6 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

That's not how any of this works. Players we're never allowed to simply bounce around tours. There has always been an established protocol for conflicting event releases. It never had anything to do with punishing players, it was about protecting the value of the business. The PGAT is in the business of hosting tournaments and selling the media rights of those tournaments. The value of those rights are a function of the assets those rights cover. 

 

Perhaps this is best explained by looking at another sport in absolute turmoil, college football. The broadcast rights for the Pac-12 conference were worth a lot more before USC and UCLA decided to jump ship to the Big 10. That domino led to others leaving and has ultimately left the Pac-2 rights worthless. That is was the PGAT was fighting against. 

 

LIV was not designed to compliment or supplement the tour. It was structured to replace the PGAT as the premier golf association. Top players are going to play ~25x / year. Exclude the majors and your down to 21 events. Pull out 14 LIV events and your down to 7. How valuable are the PGAT media rights when they only have the top players for 7 of the 40+ events they conduct? 

 

Unless the players committed to playing a lot more golf, or the PIF lowered their ambitions, there was never going to be a workable solution. 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, idrive said:

 

IMO, you're still missing the fact that none of this PGAT screwed up their response etc. crap would have ever happened if it wasn't for Greg coming in to try and take down the PGAT. Greg is only going to be happy if he is the King/top dog.

 

This has been his goal for the last 30 years after they didn't implement the system he wanted to see. His revenge has been his goal since.

 

Each and every player struggles at some point. Whether it be for a few weeks, a few years or they possibly just lose it entirely.

 

Me thinks there's a lot of history between Greg and the PGAT you're not aware of.  😉

I think you both are missing my point that regardless of how you feel about who's at fault or what should or shouldn't have happened, what did happen has left the PGAT as not as exciting to watch. If LIV and PGA had worked something out so players could play 5-8 tournaments a year outside of the Majors plus the Ryder/President Cups then I would be a lot more invested in watching Golf. Not saying I don't tune in, but I watch maybe 1 hour total Thur-Sat and then 1 hour Sunday but unless its a Major I don't even carve out time to watch. I don't watch LIV at all. I find myself watching old tournaments more than current golf more often than not. 

I deal with a lot of negotiation in my line of work and one thing I've learned is that no one ever walks away happy but the goal is that both parties can walk away OK with the outcome and some mutual respect towards each other. LIV and the PGAT went scorched earth and we as the consumer of the product are currently suffering. 

That all said, if I can I will always go to a tournament nearby in person if I can regardless of who is playing. Something about watching these guys IRL just hits different. 

[beluga99]

1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

 

I think you both are missing my point that regardless of how you feel about who's at fault or what should or shouldn't have happened, what did happen has left the PGAT as not as exciting to watch. If LIV and PGA had worked something out so players could play 5-8 tournaments a year outside of the Majors plus the Ryder/President Cups then I would be a lot more invested in watching Golf. Not saying I don't tune in, but I watch maybe 1 hour total Thur-Sat and then 1 hour Sunday but unless its a Major I don't even carve out time to watch. I don't watch LIV at all. I find myself watching old tournaments more than current golf more often than not. 

I deal with a lot of negotiation in my line of work and one thing I've learned is that no one ever walks away happy but the goal is that both parties can walk away OK with the outcome and some mutual respect towards each other. LIV and the PGAT went scorched earth and we as the consumer of the product are currently suffering. 

That all said, if I can I will always go to a tournament nearby in person if I can regardless of who is playing. Something about watching these guys IRL just hits different. 

Nice post @Barnacle I agree it's incumbent on both parties.  Does anyone actually think the PGA Tour is better than 5 years ago?  Are more people tuning in?  Is it a great product that continues to grow and gain interest?  Are the best players showing up week in and week out to compete like most other leagues and sports?  I don't think so.

 

If Monahan left as commissioner tomorrow, would the tour be in a better place than when he took over?  For me, that's a no.  He seems massively out of his depth for someone on a reported $18mm annual compensation package.  Such a shame.

 

 

[wedgegame]

32 minutes ago, beluga99 said:

Nice post @Barnacle I agree it's incumbent on both parties.  Does anyone actually think the PGA Tour is better than 5 years ago?  Are more people tuning in?  Is it a great product that continues to grow and gain interest?  Are the best players showing up week in and week out to compete like most other leagues and sports?  I don't think so.

 

If Monahan left as commissioner tomorrow, would the tour be in a better place than when he took over?  For me, that's a no.  He seems massively out of his depth for someone on a reported $18mm annual compensation package.  Such a shame.

 

 

Viewership was up in 2023 so more people were tuning in, and Monahan just secured $3bn in capital.  I'm not a fan of Monahan, but I think the tour saw a ROI on his $18mm compensation package.

 

With the SSG deal I think the tour is in a better place than it was without it, and the PIF was going to do PIF things regardless of who was at the helm at the PGAT.

[st1800e]

11 hours ago, clinkinfo said:

I think the pga underestimated the impact of liv

I think Jay underestimated the impact of not meeting with them.  
 

p.s.   it’s the pga TOUR 

[WhostherealSlimShady]

13 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

I think a player who earns a PGAT card should get a stipend for each week he plays in a PGAT event, at least enough to cover his expenses for traveling there, playing in the Pro Am, paying his caddie and having a place to sleep at night. 

Already happened---

[NormanFan]

The TOUR is in desperate need of a new commissioner who knows what they are doing at this point.  All this schedule shakeup, these limited field/signature events, etc. are just making the season less relevant by signaling to sponsors that certain events are not worth their interest or time.  Feels like the PGA is doing so much movement its like NASCAR trying to figure out what their Chase series was supposed to look like post-2005 or so and viewership and interest went down significantly as a result.

[Barfolomew]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:23 AM, jimb6golf said:

 The swings have become robotic and there's less characters than in the past with Arnie, Lee, Stadler, Seve, etc. who showed emotion while playing.

 

Been saying for too many years that it would take so little to become a fan/media favorite..... players are so boring robotic and show no character.  Which is strange cause many of them are funny off the course... 

 

Has to be they don't want any more spot light on them while playing and want to fly under the radar to take some of the pressure/expectations off...

[SurfDuffer]

On 3/11/2024 at 11:30 AM, Barnacle said:

Both parties are definitely at fault. PGA used its prestige to punish those who left, instead of just being okay with some players playing both tours just like how PGA players can play on the PGA, the DP, the Asian Tour etc. It turned into a cluster that didn't need to happen. 

That said, of the big names that stayed on the tour most of them are struggling to perform at a consistent level through a tournament. For instance JT got to -7 on the front and finished -3 for the tournament shooting +4 on the back 9. Rory performed well on the DP and then gets over to the PGA and wets the bed. Spieth can't seem to string a couple rounds together. 

100% correct!!!!!!!

[beluga99]

On 3/12/2024 at 6:48 AM, Titleist99 said:

Not too long ago (approx. 2 years ago) Scottie Scheffler was basically unknown as a professional. Just look at him now.

I'm pretty sure he was World Number 1 this time two years ago!  LOL.  "Basically unknown professional".  He won Korn Ferry PoY and RoY in 2019, PGA RoY in 2019-20 and was top of the PGA Money List in 21-22.  He's a unique/memorable player given his footwork and name.  I guess if you only watch the PGA when Tiger or Rory play then he probably wouldn't be known. 😉

[Dutch1008]

57 minutes ago, beluga99 said:

I'm pretty sure he was World Number 1 this time two years ago!  LOL.  "Basically unknown professional".  He won Korn Ferry PoY and RoY in 2019, PGA RoY in 2019-20 and was top of the PGA Money List in 21-22.  He's a unique/memorable player given his footwork and name.  I guess if you only watch the PGA when Tiger or Rory play then he probably wouldn't be known. 😉

 

To be fair to @Titleist99 casual fans complained about Stricker picking Scheffler for the Ryder Cup. He hadn't yet won anything and people thought the team would be better off with a match play bulldog like Kisner. Casual fans don't follow college golf, the KFT, or start to see the pattern of some unknown player consistently posting top 10s. They're only recognizable after a win and to many fans, only after winning a major. 

[Titleist99]

15 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

To be fair to @Titleist99 casual fans complained about Stricker picking Scheffler for the Ryder Cup. He hadn't yet won anything and people thought the team would be better off with a match play bulldog like Kisner. Casual fans don't follow college golf, the KFT, or start to see the pattern of some unknown player consistently posting top 10s. They're only recognizable after a win and to many fans, only after winning a major. 

100%. When he manhandled Rahm at Whistling Straits Rahm was #1 and Scheffler was an afterthought. Scheffler did putt like a Ninja in that match though.