never thought I’d ever lose interest in pgatour golf

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, RobS said:

It's difficult to evaluate the leadership without being on the inside.  You can also look at the current state from different angles.  On the positive side, the Tour backfilled and is fully sponsored this season, secured a $3b investment partner and got rid of potentially crippling LIV lawsuits.  Eliminating the litigation with no strings attached other than dropping their countersuit is the most significant accomplishment of the 3 mentioned.  4 years ago the Tour secured a TV deal that is exceptionally high for the relative popularity of the sport.  139 players last year had winnings of $1m or more.  7 made over $10m.  Considering the golf is a niche sport, I believe it's overachieved.

There are a number of areas where the Tour can be criticized but on balance, the Tour is fairing well, despite the challenges of an irrationally spending competitor with money to burn.  If the Tour successfully moves forward, having already killed litigation and not having to give up equity to the PIF, I think they'll have done a great job.  I get that the players are upset over the bombshell framework agreement announcement but they fail to realize that the deal likely doesn't materialize outside of the confidential negotiations of the top decision makers.  Monahan rolled the dice, alienating himself from a lot of players but I think it was worth it to dispose of the lawsuits that could have become fatal to the Tour.  Who knows if they ever fully intended to even go forward with the framework agreement?  One could also argue that Monahan & Co exposed them to the lawsuits and they may be right as it's fair to say they made some mistakes in fighting off LIV.

100%^^^^ I would ask that you bookmark your soliloquy and insert it when some posters start with the foolishness regarding the demise of the PGAT. 

 

I think that things transpired exactly like you presented it. I do think the deal takes place because it adds revenue to the PGAT and they would never let an opportunity like that slip away.

 

PS/ early call, the deal is announced before the Masters. Don't quote me on that though.🤣

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, RobS said:

It's difficult to evaluate the leadership without being on the inside.  

 

You don't need to be "inside" the PGA Tour to know what it was in the late 60s/early 70s and was by 2018 - pretty easy to evaluate the leadership with readily available information.  

[mosesgolf]

This weekend’s leaderboard is looking mighty exciting.

You know you’re gonna watch!!!

[bcjim]

5 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

This weekend’s leaderboard is looking mighty exciting.

You know you’re gonna watch!!!

Sir,  the OP only watches when the top *5* 3rd round leaders are major champions. Top 3 is inadequate and clearly indicative of a Korn ferry-like field. 

[Frankensteins Monster]

[SurfDuffer]

I agree with the OP.  The PGA Tour has certainly lost its mojo.  Its hard to watch when many of the best players in the world and the most interesting to watch are on that other tour.  They need to fix it and re-unite sooner rather than later.  

[BlackDiamondPar5]

4 minutes ago, SurfDuffer said:

I agree with the OP.  The PGA Tour has certainly lost its mojo.  Its hard to watch when many of the best players in the world and the most interesting to watch are on that other tour.  They need to fix it and re-unite sooner rather than later.  

If you don't think this API leaderboard is close and compelling then you're not really a fan of professional golf.

[SurfDuffer]

1 minute ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

If you don't think this API leaderboard is close and compelling then you're not really a fan of PGA Tour professional golf anymore.

 

I fixed that for you. 

[mosesgolf]

18 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

If you don't think this API leaderboard is close and compelling then you're not really a fan of professional golf.

Im not sure what the OP is talking about.  Even the American Express was Uber exciting this year. Ask Nick Dunlap and he’ll tell you the same.   

[Pastit]

11 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

Im not sure what the OP is talking about.  Even the American Express was Uber exciting this year. Ask Nick Dunlap and he’ll tell you the same.   

Over the Watta there’s general disappointment with both tours. I now only watch the last hour of the final days. 

Edited March 10 by Pastit
Spelling

[SurfDuffer]

5 hours ago, Pastit said:

Over the Watta there’s general disappointment with both tours. I now only watch the last hour of the final days. 

I've pretty much tuned it all out.  They've ruined a good thing.

[idrive]

3 hours ago, SurfDuffer said:

I've pretty much tuned it all out.  They've ruined a good thing.

 

They've?? You mean Greg?

 

Everything was fine until Greg showed with unlimited funds and a goofy format.

 

They should have named it "The Clowns Ego Circus Exhibition."

[HackerDave]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:58 AM, byoshio82 said:

Totally agree with your post. It’s lame that half the worlds best don’t get world rankings points and can’t play in PGA Tour events. Make the fields way more watered down for the PGA. Half the time if I see it on tv the leaderboard is a bunch of guys I have never heard of or I’m not interested in watching them. 

You know they signed on for that, right?   What did you think the bags of cash were for?

[byoshio82]

2 hours ago, HackerDave said:

You know they signed on for that, right?   What did you think the bags of cash were for?

Yes I get that 100% and I would have taken the bag. With that said professional golf as a whole has suffered and more specifically the PGA. The product is watered down and a lot of the guys people love to cheer for just don’t have the ability to play in certain tourney that would increase viewership for the PGA Tour. 
 

I don’t think any of the LIV guys regret getting generational wealth for jumping ship. They’ll both come back together at some point I’m sure. 

[SnowbirdTom]

6 hours ago, byoshio82 said:

Yes I get that 100% and I would have taken the bag. With that said professional golf as a whole has suffered and more specifically the PGA. The product is watered down and a lot of the guys people love to cheer for just don’t have the ability to play in certain tourney that would increase viewership for the PGA Tour. 
 

I don’t think any of the LIV guys regret getting generational wealth for jumping ship. They’ll both come back together at some point I’m sure. 

That’s how independent contracting works!  As one, you get to pick the one company you wish to work for because the one you just quit doesn’t want you having access to trade secrets, future business planning and their customer base.  
 

Only way those players that left will ever have access to the PGA again will be if LIV folds or their contract expires and they ask to

come back with PGA approval.  Don’t blame the PGA, the issue lies with the IC’s choice.

[Titleist99]

8 hours ago, byoshio82 said:

Yes I get that 100% and I would have taken the bag. With that said professional golf as a whole has suffered and more specifically the PGA. The product is watered down and a lot of the guys people love to cheer for just don’t have the ability to play in certain tourney that would increase viewership for the PGA Tour. 
 

I don’t think any of the LIV guys regret getting generational wealth for jumping ship. They’ll both come back together at some point I’m sure. 

"The product is watered down and a lot of the guys people love to cheer for just don’t have the ability to play in certain tourney that would increase viewership for the PGA Tour. "

---------------------

 

I and most people that I know don't believe this at all. Players are interchangeable. Because a few players left the Tour it left an opportunity for others to step up and make a name for themselves. Players leave the tour all the time due to injury, loss of form. age, etc. 

 

Just a matter of finding other players to cheer for. Happens in sports all the time.

 

No one is bigger than the PGAT. They'll continue to cultivate talent. IMO

[SurfDuffer]

13 hours ago, idrive said:

 

They've?? You mean Greg?

 

Everything was fine until Greg showed with unlimited funds and a goofy format.

 

They should have named it "The Clowns Ego Circus Exhibition."

 

By "They've" I'm referring to both sides in the circus.  The PGA Tour totally botched its response to what you described and painted itself into a corner by trying to be the tough guy.  Neither side is blameless and now we have two watered down tours to choose from and neither side represents the best of the best.

[One Putter]

Anybody that complains about "weaker fields" isn't a golf fan to begin with. There have always been tournaments where the biggest stars don't play. Those tournaments are great proving grounds for unproven players. It's literally never been an issue until two years ago when a certain incredibly small faction of people decided it WAS a problem and that they would rather do away with those tournaments altogether to have more money for themselves. This faction of people is operating through pure greed, plain and simple. Gives zero you-know-whats about the fans or what we want.

 

What an absolutely spoiled and selfish generation of people. Yall seem to think every tournament should be a 12-way tie between the top 12 players in the world every Sunday. That's just never been what golf is about. And it will never be that way.

Edited March 11 by One Putter

[SurfDuffer]

1 minute ago, One Putter said:

Anybody that complains about "weaker fields" isn't a golf fan to begin with. There have always been tournaments where the biggest stars don't play. Those tournaments are great proving grounds for unproven players. It's literally never been an issue until two years ago when a certain incredibly small faction of people decided it WAS a problem and that they would rather do away with those tournaments altogether to have more money for themselves. This faction of people is operating through pure greed, plain and simple. Gives zero you-know-whats about the fans or what we want.

 

The Puerto Rico Open was as good as any other tournament this weekend......right?

[One Putter]

1 minute ago, SurfDuffer said:

 

The Puerto Rico Open was as good as any other tournament this weekend......right?

It went to a playoff so it was more exciting than watching Scottie blow everyone away.

[billyspan]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:51 PM, stinger_gc said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-08/amazon-microsoft-boosting-saudi-offices-amid-state-pressure 

I get what you’re saying but the PIF money is so intertwined with sports and the global economy that I’ve stopped caring about it. PIF just partnered with ATP, own soccer teams, and are invested in f1

Things are working according to the plan... 

[billyspan]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:39 AM, Pepperturbo said:

I've been close to some tour players, the game of golf and tournament golf course management for many years.   It's not as simple as some people make it sound. 

 

The PGA Tour is American, and should remain so; NOT become a world tour, feeding Norman's desire; yet that appears to be slowly happening.  Buying into being poached = weak character and values, as has been demonstrated by players publicly flip-flopping on LIV.  

 

Where the money comes from and how it's infecting PGA Tour management and players, fuels the downfall of the tour.  Youngsters don't appreciate being able to play on tour for better than average money.  Lots of them want salaries and no cuts, jets, etc., which isn't good for an independent contractor profession.  

 

The PGA Tour has always been driven by integrity, and charity... both are waning.  To compete with LIV, PGA Tour is making questionable decisions, and appearing as if a merger is in the offing.  To make matters worse, they have seriously increased the buy-in for sponsors, so sponsors are dropping out.  Associated cost vs exposure value are now upside-down; leaving the PGA to avail large socialistic AT&T to step in and cover events lacking sponsors.  Nothing good is happening.  My 2 cents.

I can distill an important point from your post: If you (PGA Tour) are trying to be everything for everyone, you will always be chasing.  You risk alienating and losing your core audience chasing.

 

I'll argue the PGA Tour is a North American tour.  Mexico could have another event in Mexico City and Canada should have more than a single event!!  Probably way too long ago, but there were events in Tijuana and Vancouver.

[billyspan]

On 3/7/2024 at 2:29 PM, phizzy30 said:

I watch both LIV and PGA Tour on TV.  However, I find LIV more interesting because of the team and individual format plus they have more talent across the board albeit some of the players are past their prime. 

I feel you.  LIV feels a little bit like the Jr. Senior Tour.  There is a market for that.  You could make a point that the min. age for the Champions Tour could be lowered to 45.  This is not unheard of, many Senior competitions used to have a 55 year age min.  Mid-Pro Tour? 🙂

[3whacker]

3 minutes ago, billyspan said:

I feel you.  LIV feels a little bit like the Jr. Senior Tour.  There is a market for that.  You could make a point that the min. age for the Champions Tour could be lowered to 45.  This is not unheard of, many Senior competitions used to have a 55 year age min.  Mid-Pro Tour? 🙂

I think you are right about dropping it to 45, but until the mighty USGA drops the age requirements on Seniors, the Champions Tour will remain where it is

[mosesgolf]

So this is what Scotty is capable of when he putts a little better.  

[billyspan]

On 3/9/2024 at 11:55 AM, Hawkeye77 said:

 

You don't need to be "inside" the PGA Tour to know what it was in the late 60s/early 70s and was by 2018 - pretty easy to evaluate the leadership with readily available information.  

Adam Schupak's book on Dean Beman, "Golf's Driving Force" should be required reading!  🙂

[DoughBack18]

58 minutes ago, One Putter said:

It went to a playoff so it was more exciting than watching Scottie blow everyone away.

But the reality is nobody talks about it. Where was the PR Open thread with Notables, etc… This may be the first time that event was even mentioned on here!

 

People that are really into golf will watch pretty much anything that involves it. People on the fringes like big names. Its just like any other sport.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, SurfDuffer said:

 

The Puerto Rico Open was as good as any other tournament this weekend......right?

The Puerto Rico Open was as good as the opposite field tournaments has always been.

 

There will be four opposite field events this year giving the players that don't make the signature events an opportunity.

[billyspan]

On 3/9/2024 at 6:25 AM, Fairways_and_Greens said:

*8 hours of run time with 4.5 hours of repetitive commercials in HD

You absolutely have a point here.

 

I think the PGA Tour did MOST things well in the post-Tiger world.  TV contracts grew, uprses continued to grow,  sponsors continued to be signed, number of tournaments was increased thus increasing playing opportunities for the members, the Korn Ferry Tour & PGA Tour America's remained feeder tours for the big show (long-term investment), co-sanctioned events happening around the world, European Tour alliances, etc.

 

However, the TV viewer's experience suffered with choppy telecasts due to heavy commercial load, the Playing Through feature, etc.  This was going to catch up with them at some point.  However, if the networks would only increase $ with greater commercial time...money won out.  If the last hour or 90 mins on the weekend was commercial-free or sponsored, things would be much different IMO.

 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, One Putter said:

Anybody that complains about "weaker fields" isn't a golf fan to begin with. There have always been tournaments where the biggest stars don't play. Those tournaments are great proving grounds for unproven players. It's literally never been an issue until two years ago when a certain incredibly small faction of people decided it WAS a problem and that they would rather do away with those tournaments altogether to have more money for themselves. This faction of people is operating through pure greed, plain and simple. Gives zero you-know-whats about the fans or what we want.

 

What an absolutely spoiled and selfish generation of people. Yall seem to think every tournament should be a 12-way tie between the top 12 players in the world every Sunday. That's just never been what golf is about. And it will never be that way.

100%....Outside of the Major tournaments there's only a couple of tournaments where the big name players meet, and one will be the Players Championship coming up. 

 

Always been that way .....now, all of a sudden, it's a big problem in some people's mind. 🤣