Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?

[EKELLY]

4 capper gets killed

 

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards. Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

 

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

[iteachgolf]

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

 

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.

[pinhigh27]

No one said they're average. Scratch is like 95th+%. I don't think anyone thinks a 4 would beat an avg lpga tour player. Make it scratxh and it's a different story.

 

You guys are drastically underestimating the difference in talent between the studs and avg lpga players. We're not saying scratxh kid will beat ko. Look at the stats, they aren't even close. Again it's literally 4 shots a round between ko and avg lpga tour player.

 

Edit it's 4 shots just looked

[iteachgolf]

4 capper gets killed

 

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards. Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

 

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

[gunmetal]

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

 

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.

 

I would disagree. Top 10 LPGA players get the ball up and down just as much if not more than top 10 PGA.

[iteachgolf]

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

 

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.

 

I would disagree. Top 10 LPGA players get the ball up and down just as much if not more than top 10 PGA.

 

Again it's not even close. Hole locations are WAY easier on LPGA Tour with slower and softer greens and less rough. Annika who had the best short game on LPGA tour after playing with guys said her shortgame was mediorce compared to even an average PGA tour player. It motivated her to work even harder on it. If they played with the same conditions the PGA tour guys would be head and shoulders about the LPGA around the greens

[McCann1]

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

 

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.

This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

[pinhigh27]

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

 

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.

This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

 

we're stating objective factors, such as course conditions and coupling that with anecdotes as well as feedback from the ladies themselves when they tried to play with the men.

 

this is no different than any other sports. in most sports the u18 mens team beats the women's team of all -stars. has happened in basketball and soccer in recent times.

 

the u17 men's soccer team beat the usa womens soccer team 8-2 a few years ago. the women which are ranked #1 in the world for the national team rankings.

 

What basis do you have?

[goobers80]

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

 

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.

This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

 

I can definitely say that it is almost true that women are always going to be put down even if you claim you are not. Even if you claim you respect women golfers , men still will put them down whether they realize it or not. Both sides constantly have to compare , but guys seem eager to put women athletes down or be condescending while complimenting them. Having played against top amateurs and professional golfers on the women's side in actual tournaments , i can say froms experience , even scratch golfers would have troubles unless they can take it around the country.

 

I could agree on the short game argument , except men have to be as good as they are ands women have to be as good as they are. If the courses were set up harder , the women would adapt. A lot will just chip it on ands make bogey at worst , which is not a bad thing usually. I have played many courses in tournaments that are near 13 ands sloping greens , ands it is not *rocket science* on how to adjust from easier greens.

 

However , it is stupid to compare the two , since it is all different.

[chocolate_rehab]

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

 

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.

This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

 

I can definitely say that it is almost true that women are always going to be put down even if you claim you are not. Even if you claim you respect women golfers , men still will put them down whether they realize it or not. Both sides constantly have to compare , but guys seem eager to put women athletes down or be condescending while complimenting them. Having played against top amateurs and professional golfers on the women's side in actual tournaments , i can say froms experience , even scratch golfers would have troubles unless they can take it around the country.

 

I could agree on the short game argument , except men have to be as good as they are ands women have to be as good as they are. If the courses were set up harder , the women would adapt. A lot will just chip it on ands make bogey at worst , which is not a bad thing usually. I have played many courses in tournaments that are near 13 ands sloping greens , ands it is not *rocket science* on how to adjust from easier greens.

 

However , it is stupid to compare the two , since it is all different.

 

Bingo. And if one more person compares a basketball team of men beating a basketball team of women as reason why women aren't as good as men, I swear to god.

[McCann1]

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

 

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.

This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

 

we're stating objective factors, such as course conditions and coupling that with anecdotes as well as feedback from the ladies themselves when they tried to play with the men.

 

this is no different than any other sports. in most sports the u18 mens team beats the women's team of all -stars. has happened in basketball and soccer in recent times.

 

the u17 men's soccer team beat the usa womens soccer team 8-2 a few years ago. the women which are ranked #1 in the world for the national team rankings.

 

What basis do you have?

Because I have grown up playing golf competitively and play with many good professional golfers now, men and women. I see it first hand. All you have are your opinions based on hypothetical situations. If women's courses were tougher they would adapt. That's what the best in the world do. I don't even know why I'm going back and forth with you on this, but I digress..

[glcoach]

This thread is silly, yes a 4 handicap would get beaten, badlly. That's not even a real scenario.

 

However, I would like to see what most 4 handicaps would do to a 6100 yard course with every pin in the middle of the green on fantastic rolling 10 stimp greens and little to no rough (which is the setup at most LPGA events) in a CASUAL(yet rule following) round. IMO, most of them would shoot a career low score...

[chocolate_rehab]

This thread is silly, yes a 4 handicap would get beaten, badlly. That's not even a real scenario.

 

However, I would like to see what most 4 handicaps would do to a 6100 yard course with every pin in the middle of the green on fantastic rolling 10 stimp greens and little to no rough (which is the setup at most LPGA events) in a CASUAL(yet rule following) round. IMO, most of them would shoot a career low score...

 

If you think playing a round on tour (yes, even the much maligned LPGA tour) is ever "casual," there's a huge amount of cognitive dissonance happening.

[iteachgolf]

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

 

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.

This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

 

I can definitely say that it is almost true that women are always going to be put down even if you claim you are not. Even if you claim you respect women golfers , men still will put them down whether they realize it or not. Both sides constantly have to compare , but guys seem eager to put women athletes down or be condescending while complimenting them. Having played against top amateurs and professional golfers on the women's side in actual tournaments , i can say froms experience , even scratch golfers would have troubles unless they can take it around the country.

 

I could agree on the short game argument , except men have to be as good as they are ands women have to be as good as they are. If the courses were set up harder , the women would adapt. A lot will just chip it on ands make bogey at worst , which is not a bad thing usually. I have played many courses in tournaments that are near 13 ands sloping greens , ands it is not *rocket science* on how to adjust from easier greens.

 

However , it is stupid to compare the two , since it is all different.

 

I respect the women a ton. The women at the top of the game are phenomenal. There simply isn't as much depth. The top 10 on the LPGA tour are scary good. I wouldn't want to play Stacy Lewis, even from 7100 yards, for money. But the women in he bottom half in another story. There is a massive gap in skill level between the 100th ranked woman and the top 10. The depth has improved drastically in the last 10 years but it still has a ways to go. In another 10 years I think it will be more competitive.

 

I know a girl who top 100 in scoring average and around 100th in money on the LPGA Tour. Has been out there a few years now and only has 2 career top 10s. Its a lot like how the PGA Tour was 60 years ago. Just because I don't think the talent pool is as deep doesn't mean I don't respect them

[MtlJeff]

We are getting so sidetracked here. The thread is about 4 handicaps vs LPGA pros. As almost everyone has said, a 4 handicap would get destroyed by the ladies

 

We get sidetracked by people who want to label posters as sexist, and by people posting about different scenarios than what the OP asked.

 

It's not sexist to say that men have a physical advantage over women. One poster has referenced games between the US women's national soccer team and teenage boys, which the women lost. Men also tend to compete with women in track and field in the same gaps, a 15-16 year old top sprinter will beat olympic champion women. I don't mean that to sexist...it's not sexist, it's just a fact. It's nothing against women. So if someone posts that a top amateur 15 year old boy could beat an LPGA pro, it's not a shot at women and it's not sexist....it's just most likely true

 

But a 4 handicap, the subject of the thread. Would get killed....

 

We don't have to pretend men and women are the same physically. It's not insulting anyone to concede that

[goobers80]

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

[iteachgolf]

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

 

There's more women than men in the US. There's no reason women sports can't be every bit as deep. Will take time obviously but I think women's sports will look different top to bottom in 10-15 years.

[chocolate_rehab]

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

 

I've been playing for a year, and I've heard variations of "a male X HCP golfer could beat an LPGA player" at least a dozen times. At least. It's ignorant and off-putting. You simply cannot compare one with the other on a professional level due to a myriad of physical and social factors which should be dumb dumb obvious. But golfers of ANY level should know that a 4 HCP is not coming anywhere near an LPGA player.

 

And yes, I also find it incredibly disrespectful.

[Cape]

A good high school golfer in FL is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list. The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

 

This is very surprising.. Would've never guessed

[MtlJeff]

Pay determines everything. Women's sports will be as deep as men when the pay merits that they make the same sacrifices as men do to make it.

 

The 100th ranked LPGA woman has made 78000$ YTD, and then you have to discount expenses etc...

 

I know a lot of women who make that kind of money, and they are suffice to say, not the 100th best at their profession in the world.

 

The money isn't there for women, which is why there is imbalance

[Jacob Mac]

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

 

I've been playing for a year, and I've heard variations of "a male X HCP golfer could beat an LPGA player" at least a dozen times. At least. It's ignorant and off-putting. You simply cannot compare one with the other on a professional level due to a myriad of physical and social factors which should be dumb dumb obvious. But golfers of ANY level should know that a 4 HCP is not coming anywhere near an LPGA player.

 

And yes, I also find it incredibly disrespectful.

 

Why? It seems pretty self evident that the distance gap precludes women from being as good as men. Not a knock on anyone, just a fact.

 

I get beat all the time bc I can't hit it out of my own shadow. And if I play a couple tees up, I'm not playing the same game. If you pointed out I'm not any good it isn't disrespectful, it is true.

[MtlJeff]

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

 

I've been playing for a year, and I've heard variations of "a male X HCP golfer could beat an LPGA player" at least a dozen times. At least. It's ignorant and off-putting. You simply cannot compare one with the other on a professional level due to a myriad of physical and social factors which should be dumb dumb obvious. But golfers of ANY level should know that a 4 HCP is not coming anywhere near an LPGA player.

 

And yes, I also find it incredibly disrespectful.

 

It's not ignorant to say something that is true. Why pretend we are the same when we are not? Yes an X male handicap could beat an LPGA pro....so what?

 

Yes you can't compare the physical differences, that's why X male would beat the LPGA pro. It's not a shot at women. That's just the physical differences.

 

We don't need to pretend, we're all grown ups here and understand the differences. Not many posters are insulting women here.

[TB07]

4 capper gets killed

 

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards. Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

 

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

 

What's the course rating playing at from 6400 and easier pins ? Generally speaking of course.

[chocolate_rehab]

Pay determines everything. Women's sports will be as deep as men when the pay merits that they make the same sacrifices as men do to make it.

 

The 100th ranked LPGA woman has made 78000$ YTD, and then you have to discount expenses etc...

 

I know a lot of women who make that kind of money, and they are suffice to say, not the 100th best at their profession in the world.

 

The money isn't there for women, which is why there is imbalance

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

 

I've been playing for a year, and I've heard variations of "a male X HCP golfer could beat an LPGA player" at least a dozen times. At least. It's ignorant and off-putting. You simply cannot compare one with the other on a professional level due to a myriad of physical and social factors which should be dumb dumb obvious. But golfers of ANY level should know that a 4 HCP is not coming anywhere near an LPGA player.

 

And yes, I also find it incredibly disrespectful.

 

Why? It seems pretty self evident that the distance gap precludes women from being as good as men. Not a knock on anyone, just a fact.

 

I get beat all the time bc I can't hit it out of my own shadow. And if I play a couple tees up, I'm not playing the same game. If you pointed out I'm not any good it isn't disrespectful, it is true.

 

First of all, there are two separate things I'm jumping in on.

 

One, is this idea that men and women need to be judged from equal distances (playing off the same tee) - that is false. A few posters have mentioned playing off the red/women's tees and shooting better scores, etc. "I played from the women's tees and shot a 59.." etc. Well no s***, I play pretty great on kids 9-hole courses. That doesn't men a damned thing. I'm absolutely taking the physical differences between men and women into account by saying judging men and women against each other from the same distance is inherently unfair and no, women will never be able to compete there. It's an evolutionary fact - men have more muscle, strength, and less body fat than women on average which lends itself to an easier time generating power and distance. So for me, ANY discussion about men vs. women on the same tees is about as stupid as having Olympic softball players hit in little league stadiums. My argument is that any discussion that includes an argument like "well they shoot 6400.." or anything like that is stupid and sexist.

 

Two, I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that women's sports are a LONG way away from men's sports in terms of development, prestige, participation (the depth argument), and talent because women's sports have only been promoted, socially accepted, and properly funded relatively recently. I mean, this should be patently obvious. Culturally, women's sports have been (and continue to be) second class (interesting to study is Korean women's golf, which gets first class treatment in their country - and surprise, surprise, their female golfers are the best in the world right now). Historically girls weren't encouraged to go out and pursue athletics in the same manner and with the same zeal as men. Yes, this is changing, but it takes a long time to change the foundations of a sport. My grandmother didn't have "gym" class available to her. Even on a purely recreational level, my female friends (20s) play far less sports than men of our same age due to a myriad of factors.

 

My frustration comes from the ignorance of both above factors when male golfers jump into the "could beat an LPGA player" discussions, and the HUGE overestimation of the average male golfer's talent compared to a woman.

[TapIn4Dbl]

A good high school golfer in FL is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list. The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

 

I respect what you do immensely but I have never read such an ignorant comment. I really hope this is laced with sarcasm that I'm missing.

[iteachgolf]

4 capper gets killed

 

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards. Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

 

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

 

What's the course rating playing at from 6400 and easier pins ? Generally speaking of course.

 

Generally course ratings in the 70-72 range.

[TB07]

4 capper gets killed

 

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards. Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

 

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

 

What's the course rating playing at from 6400 and easier pins ? Generally speaking of course.

 

Generally course ratings in the 70-72 range.

 

So what handicap would you say the average/below average lpga player is? I'm thinking a 4 on a good day would at least come close on the lpga's bad day. Obviously not consistently but on a good day for the 4.

[chocolate_rehab]

A good high school golfer in FL is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list. The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

 

I respect what you do immensely but I have never read such an ignorant comment. I really hope this is laced with sarcasm that I'm missing.

 

I'd like to see stats to back this up. Not even being snarky, it just didn't sound right to me, having witnessed a high school state tournament and an LPGA tournament, though obviously my sample size is small.

 

I just checked the 2015-16 FHSAA State Series Golf Results and the 40th ranked boys junior scored a +16 (84 & 76) and the #100 ranked LPGA player, Celine Herbin, has these recent rounds:

 

[iteachgolf]

A good high school golfer in FL is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list. The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

 

I respect what you do immensely but I have never read such an ignorant comment. I really hope this is laced with sarcasm that I'm missing.

 

Please explain how it is ignorant. The cut line in 13-15 age group was +1 from 6700 yards. The 16-18 year old kids played from 7100 yards and the winner was -12. The LPGA player ranked 75-100 using the scoring averages (averages over 72 but less than 73) from the shorter and easier courses they play would have missed the cut in both age groups. If we account for the yardage differences there's no chance the 75th-100th ranked woman would have made the cut.

 

I know a LPGA player that is ranked right in that range and have played with her and seen her play plenty of times. She's played with me and some mini tour players from 6900 yards and she shoots respectable scores. But the high school team that practices at that same course, who had all 5 players shoot par or better in multiple tournaments, would have the same or better averages out there. My statement is the opposite of ignorant. It's based of real world experience and factual stats.

[iteachgolf]

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

 

What's the course rating playing at from 6400 and easier pins ? Generally speaking of course.

 

Generally course ratings in the 70-72 range.

 

So what handicap would you say the average/below average lpga player is? I'm thinking a 4 on a good day would at least come close on the lpga's bad day. Obviously not consistently but on a good day for the 4.

 

The one I know would be a 0 to +1 form the tips using men's rating.