Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?

[gunmetal]

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

 

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.

 

I would disagree. Top 10 LPGA players get the ball up and down just as much if not more than top 10 PGA.

 

Again it's not even close. Hole locations are WAY easier on LPGA Tour with slower and softer greens and less rough. Annika who had the best short game on LPGA tour after playing with guys said her shortgame was mediorce compared to even an average PGA tour player. It motivated her to work even harder on it. If they played with the same conditions the PGA tour guys would be head and shoulders about the LPGA around the greens

 

While I absolutely don't agree with the premise that PGA events always have faster, firmer greens, and more rough it's a little naive to assume that an LPGA player couldn't adjust to those conditions. Did you happen to see the woman's PGA championship this year that Brooke Henderson won up in sammamish, wa? I haven't seen a course on the PGA tour with huge tree lined Fairways so tight... and the greens were lightning fast. Even still, I know many players who putt better on faster greens than slower greens. You really think course conditions were so much easier in Rio when Verchenovas 62 beat Kuchars course record?

 

The random + 2 golfer stands no chance against an LPGA Pro. If you think that he puts up the scores that he's posting now when he has cameras, galleries, and there pressure of playing for his livelihood on the line think again.

[wobgon]

The whole point of the argument is a bunch of people don't believe a kid who barely makes the cut at the state junior could beat an LPGA tour player.

 

No, the whole point of the argument was whether a 4HCP could beat an LPGA player. The resounding answer was HELL NO.

 

Then you started throwing out "well, but this young boy could beat this LPGA player" type arguments for no apparent reason other than to prove male players are superior. Which is really not necessary.

 

Actually I didn't say that at all. I said the middle of the road LPGA player is of a similar level to a good male high school golfer in FL.

 

You're the one trying to make it sexist and turn into something I never said or did. You're trying to be a white night and be a hero when nobody is being sexist at all.

Except one.

[chocolate_rehab]

Okay, then please, enlighten me as to what these posts were aiming to convey?

 

And you're barking up the wrong tree with the white knight stuff. I'm not a man trying to earn female favor on the internet, I'm a woman who is seriously tired of these kinds of threads and endless need to identify the point at which men would beat women at the top of their sport.

 

A good high school golfer in FL is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list. The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

 

The 75th scoring average on LPGA Tour is over 72 and the 100th is nearly 73. And that's from 6400 yards.

 

The 8th and 9th graders played from 6700 yards and the cut was 1 over. Most would have missed the cut even if they shot their same average on a longer tougher course. The upper class man played from nearly 7100 yards. They'd have to of shot their same average they did at 6400 yards at 7100 yards just to come in top 20. If anything I was being optimistic. No way they finish in top 60 of the 16-18 age group. And they'd miss the cut in the lower age group. The winner shot -12.

[wobgon]

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

 

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.

 

I would disagree. Top 10 LPGA players get the ball up and down just as much if not more than top 10 PGA.

 

Again it's not even close. Hole locations are WAY easier on LPGA Tour with slower and softer greens and less rough. Annika who had the best short game on LPGA tour after playing with guys said her shortgame was mediorce compared to even an average PGA tour player. It motivated her to work even harder on it. If they played with the same conditions the PGA tour guys would be head and shoulders about the LPGA around the greens

 

While I absolutely don't agree with the premise that PGA events always have faster, firmer greens, and more rough it's a little naive to assume that an LPGA player couldn't adjust to those conditions. Did you happen to see the woman's PGA championship this year that Brooke Henderson won up in sammamish, wa? I haven't seen a course on the PGA tour with huge tree lined Fairways so tight... and the greens were lightning fast. Even still, I know many players who putt better on faster greens than slower greens. You really think course conditions were so much easier in Rio when Verchenovas 62 beat Kuchars course record?

 

The random + 2 golfer stands no chance against an LPGA Pro. If you think that he puts up the scores that he's posting now when he has cameras, galleries, and there pressure of playing for his livelihood on the line think again.

Do you think there is more pressure in an lpga tournament than in the U.S. Amature.

[drewtaylor21]

 

And comparing males hitting from women's tees, or women hitting from men's tees is not, and will never be "apples to apples."

 

Well how dare the PGA Tour ask Annika to play the same tees as the rest of the field back at the Colonial. By your logic, she should have played an LPGA set of tees in order for things to be "level."

 

The point of the discussion here is to compare the skillsets of two different groups of players. Why wouldn't you want to have both groups start at the same place?

[Shilgy]

4 capper gets killed

 

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards. Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

 

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

I gotta ask. What do you think a +2 will average from 6400 at a decent course? Let's say course rating of 71.4 127 slope? By USGA notes a player averages about 3 strokes over their cap. By that logic the +2 will average 72.4 on that course. Number 82 woman, sounds average to me, averages 72.2 under tournament conditions.

[Shilgy]

much bigger talent difference than Day vs avg pga tour player. we did the stats a long time ago and I think it was like 2.5 shots/ round separated pga tour avg from #1. It was 5.5 for lpga

3 from number one to number 82. How far down are you calling average?

[2bGood]

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

 

Sorry I should address this point too. It is an interesting one to look at. I don't think golf has ever been studied, but simple sports like Running and Swimming have. So far the gap between the fastest men and fastest women has stayed the same. So in theory it may stay the same for ever. However, in may pursuits the women of 2016 are faster then the men of the 1960's. So another theory is the men will eventually reach a limit where they can no longer improve, and at that point women will close the gap.

 

Anyhow - 'never' is a long time.

[wobgon]

Okay, then please, enlighten me as to what these posts were aiming to convey?

 

And you're barking up the wrong tree with the white knight stuff. I'm not a man trying to earn female favor on the internet, I'm a woman who is seriously tired of these kinds of threads and endless need to identify the point at which men would beat women at the top of their sport.

 

A good high school golfer in FL is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list. The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

 

The 75th scoring average on LPGA Tour is over 72 and the 100th is nearly 73. And that's from 6400 yards.

 

The 8th and 9th graders played from 6700 yards and the cut was 1 over. Most would have missed the cut even if they shot their same average on a longer tougher course. The upper class man played from nearly 7100 yards. They'd have to of shot their same average they did at 6400 yards at 7100 yards just to come in top 20. If anything I was being optimistic. No way they finish in top 60 of the 16-18 age group. And they'd miss the cut in the lower age group. The winner shot -12.

Me too.....Let's just all agree that what is bothering you is true and then we will have no more need for these type of threads.

[Shilgy]

No one said they're average. Scratch is like 95th+%. I don't think anyone thinks a 4 would beat an avg lpga tour player. Make it scratxh and it's a different story.

 

You guys are drastically underestimating the difference in talent between the studs and avg lpga players. We're not saying scratxh kid will beat ko. Look at the stats, they aren't even close. Again it's literally 4 shots a round between ko and avg lpga tour player.

 

Edit it's 4 shots just looked

At the top of the page you said 5.5. It's 3 from 1-82.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

A 4hdcp couldn't beat David Toms let alone a longer hitter like Lydia Ko, or Mo Martin.

[iteachgolf]

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

 

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.

 

I would disagree. Top 10 LPGA players get the ball up and down just as much if not more than top 10 PGA.

 

Again it's not even close. Hole locations are WAY easier on LPGA Tour with slower and softer greens and less rough. Annika who had the best short game on LPGA tour after playing with guys said her shortgame was mediorce compared to even an average PGA tour player. It motivated her to work even harder on it. If they played with the same conditions the PGA tour guys would be head and shoulders about the LPGA around the greens

 

While I absolutely don't agree with the premise that PGA events always have faster, firmer greens, and more rough it's a little naive to assume that an LPGA player couldn't adjust to those conditions. Did you happen to see the woman's PGA championship this year that Brooke Henderson won up in sammamish, wa? I haven't seen a course on the PGA tour with huge tree lined Fairways so tight... and the greens were lightning fast. Even still, I know many players who putt better on faster greens than slower greens. You really think course conditions were so much easier in Rio when Verchenovas 62 beat Kuchars course record?

 

The random + 2 golfer stands no chance against an LPGA Pro. If you think that he puts up the scores that he's posting now when he has cameras, galleries, and there pressure of playing for his livelihood on the line think again.

 

You do know I've taught LPGA Tour players and know the current 88th ranked LPGA player in scoring average. I watched a kid with a +1 handicap beat her by 2 from the same tees.

 

Rio had no rough and soft greens. I'm not naive. I've been inside the ropes of both the LPGA Tour and the PGA Tour and the level of short games aren't comparable. The PGA Tour absolutely has more rough, faster greens, and WAY tougher hole locations. Anyone whose been around both knows this. Annika after playing in Colonial said her shortgame was mediocre compared to the guys and admitted that's where the biggest skill gap was

[iteachgolf]

4 capper gets killed

 

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards. Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

 

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

I gotta ask. What do you think a +2 will average from 6400 at a decent course? Let's say course rating of 71.4 127 slope? By USGA notes a player averages about 3 strokes over their cap. By that logic the +2 will average 72.4 on that course. Number 82 woman, sounds average to me, averages 72.2 under tournament conditions.

 

He said tourney +2. Meaning only tournament scores. On an LPGA setup with perfect greens and pretty benine hole locations I think he'd shoot close to his handicap and average 71 or a bit better.

[Shilgy]

The head pro at my old club played on the PGA Tour for 11 years.

 

He used to tell his son and mine, when they were in high school, that they would win every LPGA tournament if they played in them.

 

They were/are good players - better than 4 handicappers, scratch at the time - then both D-1 college players who have had long careers as pros.

 

The reason my pro said it was that the high school kids hit it close to 300 yes off the tees. LPGA players, even with today's equipment do not hit it very far - Lexi Thompson being the exception. Inbee Park and Paula Creamer only drive the ball 230 yes now - even with the long rolls, wide fairways, and no fairway hazards on today's LPGA courses.

 

The high schoolers could nearly drive at least 1/2 the par 4s, and hit irons on in 2 on every par 5.

 

That's what a former long time PGA Tour pro thought.

 

Texsport

You really should look things up before you post. Creamer averages 256+ and Park 250+ this year. Does anyone think their average is their max? Or their average?

[iteachgolf]

Okay, then please, enlighten me as to what these posts were aiming to convey?

 

And you're barking up the wrong tree with the white knight stuff. I'm not a man trying to earn female favor on the internet, I'm a woman who is seriously tired of these kinds of threads and endless need to identify the point at which men would beat women at the top of their sport.

 

A good high school golfer in FL is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list. The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

 

The 75th scoring average on LPGA Tour is over 72 and the 100th is nearly 73. And that's from 6400 yards.

 

The 8th and 9th graders played from 6700 yards and the cut was 1 over. Most would have missed the cut even if they shot their same average on a longer tougher course. The upper class man played from nearly 7100 yards. They'd have to of shot their same average they did at 6400 yards at 7100 yards just to come in top 20. If anything I was being optimistic. No way they finish in top 60 of the 16-18 age group. And they'd miss the cut in the lower age group. The winner shot -12.

 

Ok than you are getting offended over nothing. Very simple ther were to show the line or parallel where you see similar abilities. I'm stating facts. You don't like the facts, do something about them and change them. Get more girls involved in the game. I get girls involved in golf and help them earn scholarships, what do you do for girls golf?

 

You don't want to be compared then don't see equality. You can't have it both ways. You can't beg for equality and then complain when held to a similar standard or when people make comparisons between the sexes. Women's golf is great. But there is a big talent gap. Pointing it out isn't being sexist.

 

There have been a bunch of women who have played in men's events the last 15 years to test themselves and their games. Most state that they want to see their weaknesses relative to the men so they can work on it. Lincicome has played quite a few men's mini tour events here in FL to prepare for the LPGA season and believe it helps her to compare herself and test herself against her male counterparts

[Shilgy]

 

 

Again it's not a high school event. It's a nationally ranked event with big galleries and over 50 college coaches in attendance. These kids are playing for their future. They're playing to get scholarship offers and opportunities. Mattiace played in the US Junior where there are plenty of cameras and galleries.

 

Btw he was ranked 223rd in the state

http://www.unfospreys.com/news/2016/4/27/mens-golf-ospreymgolf-adds-local-product-michael-mattiace-for-2016-17.aspx

Any relation to Len? I guess ask is the 223 rating due to fewer starts?

[fbang]

A 4 would be humbled. They don't hit it far but they hit it straight and have their wedges dialed in. And they make putts. Most 4s need to be better at that.

[Shilgy]

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

 

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.

 

I would disagree. Top 10 LPGA players get the ball up and down just as much if not more than top 10 PGA.

 

Again it's not even close. Hole locations are WAY easier on LPGA Tour with slower and softer greens and less rough. Annika who had the best short game on LPGA tour after playing with guys said her shortgame was mediorce compared to even an average PGA tour player. It motivated her to work even harder on it. If they played with the same conditions the PGA tour guys would be head and shoulders about the LPGA around the greens

 

While I absolutely don't agree with the premise that PGA events always have faster, firmer greens, and more rough it's a little naive to assume that an LPGA player couldn't adjust to those conditions. Did you happen to see the woman's PGA championship this year that Brooke Henderson won up in sammamish, wa? I haven't seen a course on the PGA tour with huge tree lined Fairways so tight... and the greens were lightning fast. Even still, I know many players who putt better on faster greens than slower greens. You really think course conditions were so much easier in Rio when Verchenovas 62 beat Kuchars course record?

 

The random + 2 golfer stands no chance against an LPGA Pro. If you think that he puts up the scores that he's posting now when he has cameras, galleries, and there pressure of playing for his livelihood on the line think again.

Not to mention Verchenova is not a top line player. Never had been.

Carry on...

[iteachgolf]

 

 

Again it's not a high school event. It's a nationally ranked event with big galleries and over 50 college coaches in attendance. These kids are playing for their future. They're playing to get scholarship offers and opportunities. Mattiace played in the US Junior where there are plenty of cameras and galleries.

 

Btw he was ranked 223rd in the state

http://www.unfospreys.com/news/2016/4/27/mens-golf-ospreymgolf-adds-local-product-michael-mattiace-for-2016-17.aspx

Any relation to Len? I guess ask is the 223 rating due to fewer starts?

 

His nephew. No. He can be inconsistent. When he's good he's good. He's a pretty short hitter with some unique things going on in his swing. He finished 2nd in boys junior the year before and then top 20 his senior year. Played in US Jr. But also events where he missed the cut and shot high 70s. His tournament stroke average was 74 iirc. If anything he was hurt by playing too many events and finishing middle of the pack in smaller events. Some kids get highly ranked with small sample sizes and only play big events so they don't risk dropping in rankings. Long term playing as often as possible will help him.

 

Florida has some ridiculously good golfers. There are probably 10 boarding academies in the state where it's essentially golf all the time.

[Shilgy]

4 capper gets killed

 

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards. Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

 

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

I gotta ask. What do you think a +2 will average from 6400 at a decent course? Let's say course rating of 71.4 127 slope? By USGA notes a player averages about 3 strokes over their cap. By that logic the +2 will average 72.4 on that course. Number 82 woman, sounds average to me, averages 72.2 under tournament conditions.

 

He said tourney +2. Meaning only tournament scores. On an LPGA setup with perfect greens and pretty benine hole locations I think he'd shoot close to his handicap and average 71 or a bit better.

Does not matter. You are taking the woman players average score and the tourney +2' s better half. Get to + 4 and we're talking.

[iteachgolf]

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

 

Then you aren't a +2. Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

I gotta ask. What do you think a +2 will average from 6400 at a decent course? Let's say course rating of 71.4 127 slope? By USGA notes a player averages about 3 strokes over their cap. By that logic the +2 will average 72.4 on that course. Number 82 woman, sounds average to me, averages 72.2 under tournament conditions.

 

He said tourney +2. Meaning only tournament scores. On an LPGA setup with perfect greens and pretty benine hole locations I think he'd shoot close to his handicap and average 71 or a bit better.

Does not matter. You are taking the woman players average score and the tourney +2' s better half. Get to + 4 and we're talking.

 

Again I don't think you get it. LPGA setups are generally very easy. Hole locations towards middle of the green and the greens at ideal speed, fast and smooth but not scary, with virtually no rough. And the tourney +2 is used to being a +2 from 7,000 yards plus. He'd be hitting driver wedge to par 4s and reaching par 5s in two with irons. On tight holes he no longer has to hit driver all but eliminating the big numbers. If anything he'd play BETTER from the LPGA setup and to a lower handicap.

[Shilgy]

 

 

Again it's not a high school event. It's a nationally ranked event with big galleries and over 50 college coaches in attendance. These kids are playing for their future. They're playing to get scholarship offers and opportunities. Mattiace played in the US Junior where there are plenty of cameras and galleries.

 

Btw he was ranked 223rd in the state

http://www.unfospreys.com/news/2016/4/27/mens-golf-ospreymgolf-adds-local-product-michael-mattiace-for-2016-17.aspx

Any relation to Len? I guess ask is the 223 rating due to fewer starts?

 

His nephew. No. He can be inconsistent. When he's good he's good. He's a pretty short hitter with some unique things going on in his swing. He finished 2nd in boys junior the year before and then top 20 his senior year. Played in US Jr. But also events where he missed the cut and shot high 70s. His tournament stroke average was 74 iirc. If anything he was hurt by playing too many events and finishing middle of the pack in smaller events. Some kids get highly ranked with small sample sizes and only play big events so they don't risk dropping in rankings. Long term playing as often as possible will help him.

 

Florida has some ridiculously good golfers. There are probably 10 boarding academies in the state where it's essentially golf all the time.

I think your last paragraph is the key. When you state the average, or good, Florida high school boy is better than the woman pro it reads in print like the averaged high schooler. Florida with its academies is certainly a different animal.

But I will stand by my other statements that comparing a lpga players average score to a handicap is incorrect. Same as thinking a players driving average is their max. Same as thinking the typical course set up for the ladies is "easy".

[chocolate_rehab]

Ok than you are getting offended over nothing. Very simple ther were to show the line or parallel where you see similar abilities. I'm stating facts. You don't like the facts, do something about them and change them. Get more girls involved in the game. I get girls involved in golf and help them earn scholarships, what do you do for girls golf?

 

Sure, you're stating facts, but why do these discussions always just happen to turn into "this amateur man/junior/high schooler would beat an LPGA player"?

 

You don't want to be compared then don't see equality. You can't have it both ways. You can't beg for equality and then complain when held to a similar standard or when people make comparisons between the sexes. Women's golf is great. But there is a big talent gap. Pointing it out isn't being sexist.

 

Don't see equality? I don't know what you mean by that. I'm not begging for equality. And a "similar" standard, to you, means men and women hitting from the same distance? Really? You dutifully ignore why men and women hit from different tees in the first place.

 

My posts in this thread have been: a) no, a 4HCP wouldn't stand a chance in hell against and LPGA player, b) males possess a strength advantage that dictates "equality" takes this into effect - the rest of the world sees this as appropriate tees, and c) I don't understand why people feel the need to find, identify and highlight the point at which amateur men would beat professional women at their sport. It comes up over and over and over and over again.

 

There have been a bunch of women who have played in men's events the last 15 years to test themselves and their games. Most state that they want to see their weaknesses relative to the men so they can work on it. Lincicome has played quite a few men's mini tour events here in FL to prepare for the LPGA season and believe it helps her to compare herself and test herself against her male counterparts

 

Okay? And? PGA events are at a higher difficulty level than LPGA events...this isn't groundbreaking stuff.

[Peanut191]

Are some posts getting deleted or modified? It looks like some posters are replying to themselves, almost like the post they are trying to reply to has dissappeared.

[iteachgolf]

Ok than you are getting offended over nothing. Very simple ther were to show the line or parallel where you see similar abilities. I'm stating facts. You don't like the facts, do something about them and change them. Get more girls involved in the game. I get girls involved in golf and help them earn scholarships, what do you do for girls golf?

 

Sure, you're stating facts, but why do these discussions always just happen to turn into "this amateur man/junior/high schooler would beat an LPGA player"?

 

You don't want to be compared then don't see equality. You can't have it both ways. You can't beg for equality and then complain when held to a similar standard or when people make comparisons between the sexes. Women's golf is great. But there is a big talent gap. Pointing it out isn't being sexist.

 

Don't see equality? I don't know what you mean by that. I'm not begging for equality. And a "similar" standard, to you, means men and women hitting from the same distance? Really? You dutifully ignore why men and women hit from different tees in the first place.

 

My posts in this thread have been: a) no, a 4HCP wouldn't stand a chance in hell against and LPGA player, b) males possess a strength advantage that dictates "equality" takes this into effect - the rest of the world sees this as appropriate tees, and c) I don't understand why people feel the need to find, identify and highlight the point at which amateur men would beat professional women at their sport. It comes up over and over and over and over again.

 

There have been a bunch of women who have played in men's events the last 15 years to test themselves and their games. Most state that they want to see their weaknesses relative to the men so they can work on it. Lincicome has played quite a few men's mini tour events here in FL to prepare for the LPGA season and believe it helps her to compare herself and test herself against her male counterparts

 

Okay? And? PGA events are at a higher difficulty level than LPGA events...this isn't groundbreaking stuff.

 

The LPGA women play the same tees that amateur men play. They play the men's tee. And why I used high schools kids as my example because they average about the same distance as LPGA tour players.

 

The point I was making was that the women at the top of the LPGA tour have no problem comparing themselves to men and actively seek out the competition and comparison while you're getting offended about it for them. If they don't have an issue with it why do you

[Jp k]

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

 

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.

BS, the low capper ladies i know have such incredible low speed feel. anything 50 yards and in is up and down.

[iteachgolf]

 

 

Again it's not a high school event. It's a nationally ranked event with big galleries and over 50 college coaches in attendance. These kids are playing for their future. They're playing to get scholarship offers and opportunities. Mattiace played in the US Junior where there are plenty of cameras and galleries.

 

Btw he was ranked 223rd in the state

http://www.unfospreys.com/news/2016/4/27/mens-golf-ospreymgolf-adds-local-product-michael-mattiace-for-2016-17.aspx

Any relation to Len? I guess ask is the 223 rating due to fewer starts?

 

His nephew. No. He can be inconsistent. When he's good he's good. He's a pretty short hitter with some unique things going on in his swing. He finished 2nd in boys junior the year before and then top 20 his senior year. Played in US Jr. But also events where he missed the cut and shot high 70s. His tournament stroke average was 74 iirc. If anything he was hurt by playing too many events and finishing middle of the pack in smaller events. Some kids get highly ranked with small sample sizes and only play big events so they don't risk dropping in rankings. Long term playing as often as possible will help him.

 

Florida has some ridiculously good golfers. There are probably 10 boarding academies in the state where it's essentially golf all the time.

I think your last paragraph is the key. When you state the average, or good, Florida high school boy is better than the woman pro it reads in print like the averaged high schooler. Florida with its academies is certainly a different animal.

But I will stand by my other statements that comparing a lpga players average score to a handicap is incorrect. Same as thinking a players driving average is their max. Same as thinking the typical course set up for the ladies is "easy".

 

It is set up easy compared to men's tournaments. I'd love to play the setups they use daily. Again I'm not basing anything based on handicaps or anything else but what I've seen with my own eyes and over 15 years of playing with top women then teaching top women and men. What I've witnessed with my own eyes and I've watched LPGA Tour players get beat by scratch club golfers straight up.

[ksgolfcoach]

Ok than you are getting offended over nothing. Very simple ther were to show the line or parallel where you see similar abilities. I'm stating facts. You don't like the facts, do something about them and change them. Get more girls involved in the game. I get girls involved in golf and help them earn scholarships, what do you do for girls golf?

 

Sure, you're stating facts, but why do these discussions always just happen to turn into "this amateur man/junior/high schooler would beat an LPGA player"?

 

You don't want to be compared then don't see equality. You can't have it both ways. You can't beg for equality and then complain when held to a similar standard or when people make comparisons between the sexes. Women's golf is great. But there is a big talent gap. Pointing it out isn't being sexist.

 

Don't see equality? I don't know what you mean by that. I'm not begging for equality. And a "similar" standard, to you, means men and women hitting from the same distance? Really? You dutifully ignore why men and women hit from different tees in the first place.

 

My posts in this thread have been: a) no, a 4HCP wouldn't stand a chance in hell against and LPGA player, b) males possess a strength advantage that dictates "equality" takes this into effect - the rest of the world sees this as appropriate tees, and c) I don't understand why people feel the need to find, identify and highlight the point at which amateur men would beat professional women at their sport. It comes up over and over and over and over again.

 

There have been a bunch of women who have played in men's events the last 15 years to test themselves and their games. Most state that they want to see their weaknesses relative to the men so they can work on it. Lincicome has played quite a few men's mini tour events here in FL to prepare for the LPGA season and believe it helps her to compare herself and test herself against her male counterparts

 

Okay? And? PGA events are at a higher difficulty level than LPGA events...this isn't groundbreaking stuff.

 

I agree. Seems like this always turns into a "what level guy can compete with an lpga player" post. I'm done with it.

 

So the new pc question:

 

Can a 4 handicap lady beat a top 50 player on the pga tour? Once it gets to about 7000 yards I think she might struggle to beat him

[Jp k]

Again it's not a high school event. It's a nationally ranked event with big galleries and over 50 college coaches in attendance. These kids are playing for their future. They're playing to get scholarship offers and opportunities. Mattiace played in the US Junior where there are plenty of cameras and galleries.

 

Btw he was ranked 223rd in the state

http://www.unfosprey...or-2016-17.aspx

Any relation to Len? I guess ask is the 223 rating due to fewer starts?

 

His nephew. No. He can be inconsistent. When he's good he's good. He's a pretty short hitter with some unique things going on in his swing. He finished 2nd in boys junior the year before and then top 20 his senior year. Played in US Jr. But also events where he missed the cut and shot high 70s. His tournament stroke average was 74 iirc. If anything he was hurt by playing too many events and finishing middle of the pack in smaller events. Some kids get highly ranked with small sample sizes and only play big events so they don't risk dropping in rankings. Long term playing as often as possible will help him.

 

Florida has some ridiculously good golfers. There are probably 10 boarding academies in the state where it's essentially golf all the time.

I think your last paragraph is the key. When you state the average, or good, Florida high school boy is better than the woman pro it reads in print like the averaged high schooler. Florida with its academies is certainly a different animal.

But I will stand by my other statements that comparing a lpga players average score to a handicap is incorrect. Same as thinking a players driving average is their max. Same as thinking the typical course set up for the ladies is "easy".

 

It is set up easy compared to men's tournaments. I'd love to play the setups they use daily. Again I'm not basing anything based on handicaps or anything else but what I've seen with my own eyes and over 15 years of playing with top women then teaching top women and men. What I've witnessed with my own eyes and I've watched LPGA Tour players get beat by scratch club golfers straight up.

That doesn't make them worse, only different conditions. If the women played in tall grass around the greens their short games would need to be better and they would be. But, that's not how to get paid on the LPGA. Given the same environment, women have better fine motor skills (e.g. soft hands at low speed) and guys can hit it further. Other than that, no difference.

[Mcgeeno]

Maybe a tournament tested +2 beats a mid tier LPGA pro one round out of four in a tournament depending on the track, but not a 4 capper.

 

I'm a 4 handicap and wouldn't come close.

 

Those girls are really good.