Does anyone still game Ping Eye 2's?

[Tim Schoch]

Wow, Tom, thank you so much for taking the time to educate me and the board here. You're a great guy.

 

I've been a marketing professional all my life, mostly on the creative copywriting side, not the advertising business side. My job as a copywriter representing a product or client is to tell the truth to the right target audience. Now, this might be the absolutely truth, or it might involve using my expertise to tell a biased form of the truth that will be perceived as universal truth. If it is the truth or perceived as the truth, same thing, as long as it benefits whoever you are trying to reach with the benefit they desire and need.

 

I say all that because I guess I want to believe that the golf club manufacturers and their marketing teams are telling us the truth. The game of golf has its roots in the truth, and clubs are part of that experience. I guess it is naive to think there isn't competition for my dollars and various forms of the truth coming at me from different sources. But are they lying to me about their technology? Probably not totally, and probably I am not reading the wordage closely enough.

 

As a golfer and and consumer what matters to me is not distance from my irons, but accuracy. Not forgiveness, because you could get a forgiving toe hit that will go just as far into the lake as if you hit it pure. I'm talking about confidence in direction, distance control, and shaping (high/low, draw/fade). Anyway.

 

I had a set of the AP1s and the 43-degree PW. Yup, it went farther. Just as far as my Hogan 9-iron. That made my brain explode and I sold them.

 

I'm going to share your post with my son, who plays to a 7 and is about to search for new clubs.

 

Many thanks.

 

TIm, thanks for sharing your experience. When you made the comment - using my expertise to tell a biased form of the truth that will be perceived as universal truth - really made me think about how much your professional field must have changed in the last 15-20 yrs !

 

It's not really what the OEM golf companies with big marketing campaigns tell you in their advertising that matters. It's what they do not tell you and ignore completely.

 

I had the pleasure to know Bob Kuntz, one of the co-founders of the Golf Collectors' Society. Bob used to put on talks and seminars at various golf events and functions, enlightening golfers about the history of every aspect of the game from clubs to publications to art to you name it. One of his best was when he would get up and tell everyone he was depressed with his own game because he was not hitting his driver 397 yards like all the golf ball ads said he should be !

 

At which point he then showed slides of one ball maker's ads in golf publications over a 20+ year period. "This year's Spalding Dot is 4.3 yards longer !!" "This years Dot is now 3.6 yds longer!" And so on. . . He added up all the successive years of new ads, all claiming the new model ball was longer than before and when added to his driver distance, it came out to the point that based on the ads, he should be hitting his driver 397 yards !!

 

So, was Spalding lying in their ads? Or how about any company that makes a numerical distance increase claim for the ball or club they are selling? As I have been told, truth in advertising law only requires the company to have one incident of their claim being true. So heck, they can go out and find one golfer who hits their new ball 4.2 yds farther than he hit whatever ball he had before and they are covered. Or stage a hit test in which they can show the distance increase and they are covered. Or a golfer who hits this new driver 12 yds longer than his old one without saying a thing about how ill fit the old driver was for whatever reason(s). And when it comes to distance, every golfer knows it is easy to manipulate test conditions or test data to the company's advantage. Who's going to catch them on it? Golf's not that important for a "whistleblower" former employee to step up with proof of any manipulation of claims. That might get a resounding "yawn" from the golfing masses. And then they all go on ooohing and aaahing about the next new club or ball product.

 

So the claims for specific performance of a product made by big golf companies are not lying in the sense of a complete fabrication. Not at all.

 

But remember, the marketing is all about the ball, or the clubhead or occasionally the shaft or grip. That's where the whole attention of marketing is placed in golf equipment. Not HOW the club is made or HOW it could be made to perform better. Yes, the components on their own might lead to this or that golfer improving his performance. But the head, shaft, grip have to eventually be put together to make a finished club. And that's where it ends with the big golf companies in the form of them NOT telling you things about equipment that could help you improve your play.

 

Ever read or listened to copy that went like this . . . . . . . ?

 

"The new shorter length of our XYZ Driver will have you hitting more fairways, more accurately and even with more distance because you'll hit the ball more on center with more control !"

 

"Our new ABC Fitting System will ensure you get the set makeup best for your game. No more buying irons in your set that you can't hit well enough to put in the bag! You'll only need to buy the irons you need and not a full set ! "

 

"Our new MNO Shaft Fitting Sensor technology will enable you to wade through the confusion of thousands of shafts at a huge range in price to find THE right shaft for your swing at THE most economical price!"

 

Hate to say it because it makes me sound like an old curmudgeon but this all really took a turn for the worst from a "the consumers come FIRST" point of view when Ely Callaway took his company public back in the early 90s. Prior to that time, no golf company was larger than around $70 million in annual revenue. The top 5 companies in the game had combined annual revenues of around $250 million. Ads were quite mellow, competition was friendly, and a new club model could last for 2 to 3 years before it saturated the market and moved aside for the next new model. Retailers made decent margins and at the industry trade shows employees of the golf companies really were friends who looked forward to seeing each other.

 

But then Ely walked into the golf industry with his depth of consumer marketing experience from other industries and it all changed. He in fact called the golf equipment industry "a very ripe orchard of low hanging fruit".

 

He finds a little known company called S2H2 backed by two very good club engineers, starts Callaway Golf and as quick as possible, takes the company public to raise all sorts of cash to be used in a much larger and more consumer claim targeted marketing campaign. Almost immediately Callaway became both the first $100 million/year company and the first publicly traded company in golf equipment. Then it was $200 mill, $400 mill and onward from there.

 

Some of the other leading companies at the time saw this and realized if they did not follow, they'd risk being left in the dust. By the early 00s thetop 5 golf equipment companies had combined annual revenues of over $3 billion and 4 of the 5 were publicly traded or subs of larger publicly traded corporations. Each of the 4 with the real pressure to keep stock prices up. And the 5th who remained private just had the pressure to keep up with the others. Ad copy became more hype and sensational to excite more demand, new models could only last 6 months to 1 yr before saturation set in, and the one year or less product life cycle put huge pressure on retailers to control their inventory because the $300 new driver in March became the $149 close out in October. "Distance Sells" was still the driving mantra behind the marketing so driver lengths got longer and iron lofts continued to get even lower.

 

Unfortunately that was when it became far more about the short term success of the companies than the well being of the consumer golfer. But because few of the tens of millions of consumer golfers knew that 45-46" drivers, 23* #5 irons, and standard off the rack clubs were not the best for their game, and because the image campaigns of the big companies bred brainwashed trust from the consumers, no one has or can really take them to task on this shift in priority in their business model from consumer first to bottom line first.

 

Anyway, it is what it is, and not unlike how it has evolved in many other industries in the world today. I just rail on about it in golf equipment because I think it is so important for golfers to know this stuff so they can have a chance to get the best bang for their golf equipment bucks and in the process have a chance to play a little better and enjoy this great game a little more.

 

Tom, thanks very much for the historical context and compelling examples. As elusive as some language seems to be in the retail market, nothing is worse than politics, and based on this we vote in people responsible for 300 million lives. No wonder the golf world has a thick skin.

 

My work in the marketing world was not in retail. I worked primarily for huge nonprofits, where marketing messages drove potential customers to the sales team, who would answer questions and attempt to form long-term relationships with clients. In other words, the stuff I promoted you could not buy and walk away with. Plus, my audience was in the areas of healthcare, social work, engineering and computer science--people who knew far more than I about the products I was writing about. Differentiating a new product to those crowds, who saw right through hype, was extremely difficult and a fun creative challenge. Very often, marketing messages were written in such a way as to not answer key questions or leave a dangling question that would provide the sales team an opportunity to look good and provide the beneficial explanation, while bonding with the potential client. That is very similar to how smart companies today market on social media.

 

Hype can reach a saturation point and become decreasingly effective without a change in strategy. On the other hand, consumers in the golf world, like the cellphone world, crave and anticipate the newest set of clubs and pretty much go deaf and don't seem to notice the rising accumulation of B.S.

 

About your statement that marketing is about the product, not about how it is made. What marketing is really about is the consumer--feeling great because you're finally hitting it farther than your buddies, hitting it closer to the pin and finally beating a loudmouth, feeling sexy and strong and attractive, etc. If that promise of emotional benefit isn't there as the positive result of using a product, the ad is pretty flat. The benefit is farther drives, but the sales benefit is that people will have a higher opinion of you. Golfers are kind of pack oriented--they like to belong to a like-minded group, share knowledge, play similar equipment. The viral sales of the Epic driver are evidence of that.

 

Anyway, thanks.

[TomWishon]

 

Hype can reach a saturation point and become decreasingly effective without a change in strategy. On the other hand, consumers in the golf world, like the cellphone world, crave and anticipate the newest set of clubs and pretty much go deaf and don't seem to notice the rising accumulation of B.S.

 

About your statement that marketing is about the product, not about how it is made. What marketing is really about is the consumer--feeling great because you're finally hitting it farther than your buddies, hitting it closer to the pin and finally beating a loudmouth, feeling sexy and strong and attractive, etc. If that promise of emotional benefit isn't there as the positive result of using a product, the ad is pretty flat. The benefit is farther drives, but the sales benefit is that people will have a higher opinion of you. Golfers are kind of pack oriented--they like to belong to a like-minded group, share knowledge, play similar equipment. The viral sales of the Epic driver are evidence of that.

 

 

These are really good statements you make above - but then you are a professional in the field !!! I guess the part that depresses/frustrates me is the statement you make about golfers being pack oriented. I guess I have had the polyanna attitude that golfers wanted to be a little more distinctive and unique to get just what's best for THEM, meaning they should have the ability to discern features and benefits when clearly presented. But then our whole world these days is all about what pack are we each in?

 

Guess I better shut this down or else I might start getting threats from the off the rack pack.

[jplroper]

Had a window of opportunity to day and took the Eye 2's out for 9 holes, tying my PR with them. The irons that I used to shoot the same score earlier this year where also Eye 2's. They just work and I really like the zz lite shafts.

[sdandrea]

I clicked in expecting to read wonderful tales of exploits with Eye 2s.

 

??????????????????

 

Thank you. I scored my 3rd ACE this past Tuesday at Crystal River GC, in Crystal River FL with my Eye 2 8 iron. Best club Solheim ever designed. :taunt:

[shart6]

I clicked in expecting to read wonderful tales of exploits with Eye 2s.

 

??????????????????

 

Thank you. I scored my 3rd ACE this past Tuesday at Crystal River GC, in Crystal River FL with my Eye 2 8 iron. Best club Solheim ever designed. :taunt:

 

Congrats

[jplroper]

I clicked in expecting to read wonderful tales of exploits with Eye 2s.

 

??????????????????

 

Thank you. I scored my 3rd ACE this past Tuesday at Crystal River GC, in Crystal River FL with my Eye 2 8 iron. Best club Solheim ever designed. :taunt:

3 Aces, wow still waiting for the first one. Where you able to see it go in from the tee?

[Conrad1953]

I clicked in expecting to read wonderful tales of exploits with Eye 2s.

 

??????????????????

 

Thank you. I scored my 3rd ACE this past Tuesday at Crystal River GC, in Crystal River FL with my Eye 2 8 iron. Best club Solheim ever designed. :taunt:

 

Now, that's more like it! :D

[sdandrea]

I clicked in expecting to read wonderful tales of exploits with Eye 2s.

 

??????????????????

 

Thank you. I scored my 3rd ACE this past Tuesday at Crystal River GC, in Crystal River FL with my Eye 2 8 iron. Best club Solheim ever designed. :taunt:

3 Aces, wow still waiting for the first one. Where you able to see it go in from the tee?

 

Yes. 125 yard par 3 - pin was in the middle. Nice high shot landed green front, rolled about 15 feet and curled into the cup! My playing partner had never witnessed and ace - he nearly sharted! We were talking about it again today.

[sdandrea]

Just ordered another set of Eye 2 heads from a WRX member. Gonna try some CFS shafts in them, but am tempted to go Nippon. Hmmmmmm................

[Conrad1953]

Just ordered another set of Eye 2 heads from a WRX member. Gonna try some CFS shafts in them, but am tempted to go Nippon. Hmmmmmm................

 

Live large and go Nippon............though you can get CFS pulls for cheap, so there's

that. I bought an old set of Cobra irons last year just so I could get the Nippon shafts

out of them, lol. I haven't tried them yet though. Have been too busy.

[1970.gpp]

Just ordered another set of Eye 2 heads from a WRX member. Gonna try some CFS shafts in them, but am tempted to go Nippon.

You could get a set of AWT 2.0 shafts (made by Nippon) on the cheap. There are tons of new pulls on the 'Bay...

[sdandrea]

Was planning to use the CFS shafts because I already have them. Thanks for the reminder that the current AWT is a Nippon..... I'd forgotten that!

[jplroper]

Was planning to use the CFS shafts because I already have them. Thanks for the reminder that the current AWT is a Nippon..... I'd forgotten that!

 

What characteristics are you looking for to be different with the change from the ZZ lite shaft? I'm a fan of the ZZ lite.

[shart6]

Was planning to use the CFS shafts because I already have them. Thanks for the reminder that the current AWT is a Nippon..... I'd forgotten that!

 

What characteristics are you looking for to be different with the change from the ZZ lite shaft? I'm a fan of the ZZ lite.

 

I was too but but I hit Dynamics better so I used them. My latest iron fitting shows I would better off playing a Shimada Tour Lite or Nippon Modus 3 105. So test clubs will be built and which ever works best will be installed in my last set of "others pending" square groove heads.

[Night Putter]

Can't leave well enough alone...

 

I just went back to Eye2's. Sold my too stiff s300 minty MP 33 for $90 3-9 eye2+ k shaft w original aqua dylagrips. ( I already have becu w & SW ).

 

Very interesting. .5" shorter, much lighter swing wt, hi-pitch click on contact, perfect divots, Gr8 on hills, super easy 4 & 5 iron, look stylish in the bag.

 

Might replace the hard, but no cracking, grips.

 

Over 26 years this is my 3rd set of eye2. (1991. Becu 2001) I like the semi mod lofts on these + models.

 

The k shaft is responsive and much better than the telephone pole kt. Km.

Feels similar to zzlites but not as demanding and better suited to my age.

 

The lack of any modern dampner really imparts a definite thwack on contact in contrast to muted swoosh.

 

I could hold onto these for a long time.

[Tim Schoch]

Can't leave well enough alone...

 

I just went back to Eye2's. Sold my too stiff s300 minty MP 33 for $90 3-9 eye2+ k shaft w original aqua dylagrips. ( I already have becu w & SW ).

 

Very interesting. .5" shorter, much lighter swing wt, hi-pitch click on contact, perfect divots, Gr8 on hills, super easy 4 & 5 iron, look stylish in the bag.

 

Might replace the hard, but no cracking, grips.

 

Over 26 years this is my 3rd set of eye2. (1991. Becu 2001) I like the semi mod lofts on these + models.

 

The k shaft is responsive and much better than the telephone pole kt. Km.

Feels similar to zzlites but not as demanding and better suited to my age.

 

The lack of any modern dampner really imparts a definite thwack on contact in contrast to muted swoosh.

 

I could hold onto these for a long time.

 

Excellent description. My Eye2 steels are 1986 and my BeCus are 1985. I think I like the steels better, but your description of hi=pitch click on contact is *almost* right, because when I hit it pure, I hear and feel nothing. ZZLites I love. I even love the old lofts (50.5 PW and 57.5 SW). They are my old friends, 2nd in the bag to my Hogans. The BeCu putter I use is freaking awesome feeling. "Players" around here talk about butter, that putter is butter.

[loki993]

I still play with a set but I'm thinking about switching because seriously every hit off of them feels like a shank...

[Night Putter]

I'm learning the dylagrips look cool but aren't in the same league as today's multi compound grips.

[Froo Shon Tay]

I'm back to my eye 2s.... again... sucked me back in. Becu set with microtapers.. only problem is I'm missing the 8 Iron.. but I make do. They are just too good.

[HoosierHacker89]

I'm back to my eye 2s.... again... sucked me back in. Becu set with microtapers.. only problem is I'm missing the 8 Iron.. but I make do. They are just too good.

 

If you call ping with a serial number they can send you a replacement.

[shart6]

I'm back to my eye 2s.... again... sucked me back in. Becu set with microtapers.. only problem is I'm missing the 8 Iron.. but I make do. They are just too good.

 

There are quite a few copper 8 irons on Ebay with microtapers.

[JFM628]

I'm back to my eye 2s.... again... sucked me back in. Becu set with microtapers.. only problem is I'm missing the 8 Iron.. but I make do. They are just too good.

I would go back to Eye 2's in a minute...but I have gotten so accustomed to the modern lofts that mentally would have to adjust and recalibrate...also I have my wedges in line with the modern lofts.

 

If there was a way to adjust the Eye 2 lofts, that would be a set!

[Tim Schoch]

I'm back to my eye 2s.... again... sucked me back in. Becu set with microtapers.. only problem is I'm missing the 8 Iron.. but I make do. They are just too good.

I would go back to Eye 2's in a minute...but I have gotten so accustomed to the modern lofts that mentally would have to adjust and recalibrate...also I have my wedges in line with the modern lofts.

 

If there was a way to adjust the Eye 2 lofts, that would be a set!

 

Don't know how modern your lofts are, but the Ping Eye 2+ irons are close.

[PixlPutterman]

I have an Eye 2 one iron and it's money off the tee

[Cwebb]

I'm back to my eye 2s.... again... sucked me back in. Becu set with microtapers.. only problem is I'm missing the 8 Iron.. but I make do. They are just too good.

I would go back to Eye 2's in a minute...but I have gotten so accustomed to the modern lofts that mentally would have to adjust and recalibrate...also I have my wedges in line with the modern lofts.

 

If there was a way to adjust the Eye 2 lofts, that would be a set!

 

Don't know how modern your lofts are, but the Ping Eye 2+ irons are close.

 

He's probably used to sets that work the specs off a 45-46* "Pw". The Eye2+ is a 48 Pw.

 

It's hard for many to go back in distance with the club numbers they're used to. If the theoretical set only had lofts stamped, he could probably do it no problem. I wish more companies would do this, because it nearly erases a lot of the back and forth explaining and figuring we always run into with different specs.

 

I liked it back when Titleist and others did only loft stamps on their fairways and hybrids. We didn't have to worry about explaining whether something was a 4,5, or 7 wood....it just was a given loft. Call them whatever you want, but if someone else wants to call them something different, then they can without having an odd club number on there

[jplroper]

I'm back to my eye 2s.... again... sucked me back in. Becu set with microtapers.. only problem is I'm missing the 8 Iron.. but I make do. They are just too good.

I would go back to Eye 2's in a minute...but I have gotten so accustomed to the modern lofts that mentally would have to adjust and recalibrate...also I have my wedges in line with the modern lofts.

 

If there was a way to adjust the Eye 2 lofts, that would be a set!

Can't you send them back to Ping to have the lofts strengthened a degree or two? Playing a couple rounds should get you used to what to hit from a given yardage I would think.

[ppl4golf]

Seriously the one part that I don’t get is why anyone would alter the lofts of the Eye2+ / Eye2 irons ???

 

You have to realize that is part of the magic that gives the proper gapping and your ability to actually carry 3/4/5 irons and have any meaning use of them.

 

Maybe I shouldn’t be the one to complain because since switched to KBS Tour stiff in the Eye2+...honestly the distance I am getting is the same as modern sets....very optimized for me in this combo.

[sdandrea]

Was planning to use the CFS shafts because I already have them. Thanks for the reminder that the current AWT is a Nippon..... I'd forgotten that!

 

What characteristics are you looking for to be different with the change from the ZZ lite shaft? I'm a fan of the ZZ lite.

 

I love ZZ Lite shafts. I bought heads only and I have a set of CFS shafts, so.........................

[ppl4golf]

Was planning to use the CFS shafts because I already have them. Thanks for the reminder that the current AWT is a Nippon..... I'd forgotten that!

 

What characteristics are you looking for to be different with the change from the ZZ lite shaft? I'm a fan of the ZZ lite.

 

I love ZZ Lite shafts. I bought heads only and I have a set of CFS shafts, so.........................

 

My story is similar as well... Picked up a set of Eye2+ with mismatched KT shafts that had to go anyways... Just happened to have some KBS Tour pulls which were +0.5" and went in perfecto resulting +0.25" @ D1 across and no lead tapes no nothing.

 

PING house shafts are great and certainly no lacking in performance and consistency.

My only issue with them is they are a little demanding and can be a bit of work to hit when the swing is off... (typical of any shafts a tad on the stiff side)

[Jordan Speeth]

No, but a friend of mine does. We played together yesterday and I couldn't help but grab one and check it out. It didn't look half bad and brought back nice memories. It's still a great looking club but it's hard to imagine how so many golfers at the time just immediately switched to something so dramatically different than what had come before it. Changes to sports equipment and particularly golf has always been sort of evolutionary instead of great macro leaps like that one. I guess players were just tired of suffering and a promise of a better game was all it took. I could easily play with them again. I mean, Tiger Woods even played them through high school and college....everybody did. I still have a thing for clubs with an angled toe, just not that much anymore. I'm sure happy that the present trend is more traditional...much better imo.