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How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to pos

 Albatross85 ·  
Albatross85Albatross85 Tiger is the GOATSt. Louis, MOMembers  3045WRX Points: 252Handicap: +2.1Posts: 3,045 Titanium Tees
Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2014 in WRX Club Techs #1
[media=]
Posted:
  • Cobra LTD Pro 8* - Diamana D+ Limited 70TX
  • SIM Ti 14.25* - Fuji Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 7X
  • Callaway Apex 18* - KBS Proto Hybrid 85X
  • Adams Idea Pro Tour Prototype 23* - KBS Proto Hybrid 95X
  • Adams CMB/MB2 5-p - PX LZ 6.5 
  • Wilson FG Tour V4 50* - PX LZ 6.5 
  • Mizuno T7 55.09  - PX LZ 6.5
  • Titleist Vokey Japan TVD 60M - DG TI Onyx S400
  • Odyssey Tour Only Jailbird plumbers neck - WHP insert - Stability Shaft
  • Bridgestone Tour B XS


Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • jldavis73jldavis73 Members  1068WRX Points: 115Posts: 1,068 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2
    For once, I feel a little bit smarter after watching something on YouTube. Thanks!
    Posted:
    Srixon Z785 
    Cleveland Classic XL 14*, Black Tie X
    Srixon Z945 3-PW, Project X 6.5
    Cleveland RTX 3 52*, 56* 60*, Dynamic Gold 
    Odyssey Sabretooth Backstryke w/Flat Cat 
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  • Night trainNight train Members  2885WRX Points: 262Posts: 2,885 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #3
    ..............so I'm not really crazy after all<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Every adjustable driver I've owned I prefered hitting in the stock configuration
    Posted:
  • erock9174erock9174 North Canton, OHMembers  4190WRX Points: 257Handicap: 10.5Posts: 4,190 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #4
    So let me know if I got this straight.<br />
    <br />
    Adjustable driver:<br />
    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down<br />
    <br />
    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle
    Posted:

    Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 

    Callaway Epic Flash 7w

    Exotics Xrail  4h | 5h

    Cobra  T-Rail 6-SW

    Cleveland CBX 60* 

    Callaway Sure Out 64*

    Exotics Wingman 01

    Titleist ProV1x Yellow

    Handicap: 9.2


  • steviethevsteviethev Members  364WRX Points: 0Handicap: 5Posts: 364
    Joined:  #5
    Fantastic video. Thanks.
    Posted:
  • harold bainesharold baines Members  3509WRX Points: 1Handicap: 13Posts: 3,509 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #6
    <br />
    ..............so I'm not really crazy after all<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Every adjustable driver I've owned I prefered hitting in the stock configuration<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Right there with you, adjusted from standard always played poorly for me. I'd go from liking a club to hating its feel with a small adjustment
    Posted:
  • TomWishonTomWishon Sponsors  3663WRX Points: 125Posts: 3,663 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #7
    erock9174 wrote:
    <br />
    So let me know if I got this straight.<br />
    <br />
    Adjustable driver:<br />
    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down<br />
    <br />
    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Absolutely correct, but in both cases the lie angle does also change with the change in the hosel device for any of the adj hosel drivers.
    Posted:
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  • Sean2Sean2 Members  32903WRX Points: 3,455Posts: 32,903 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #8
    Isn't that the gentleman Kadin is teaching?
    Posted:

    Treat yourself as if you were someone you are responsible for helping. Jordan Peterson

    Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest thing of all is to see life as it is, and not as it should be. Cervantes

    In golf, the human mind has much higher capabilities to screw things up than the physics has to make things better. Unknown

     

  • wolfpackwolfpack Members  2636WRX Points: 3Posts: 2,636 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #9
    Good stuff Tom
    Posted:
    Cobra Bio Cell 11*
    F6 Baffler 17.5
    Hibore Hybrid 22*
    850 Forged 5-GW
    MP-T10 54, EYE 2 61
    Odyssey 7
  • golf9596golf9596 Members  2157WRX Points: 166Handicap: 4.5Posts: 2,157 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #10
    Tom,<br />
    <br />
    I prefer to look at an open face, therefore I choose a higher loft in order to open the face and lower the loft…Am I on the right track??? Thanks for the great video.
    Posted:
    Driver...TM Sim w/ Hzrdus Green-S
    TM....Sim Max Ti 3 Wood w/Hulk-70 gram-s
    TM..Stage 2 w/Speeder HB-80-S
    MP20  MPs w/$-Tapper 120-S 4PW
    Callaway 50* , 54*, 58* PM Grind
    Scotty Cameron Big Sur Pro Platinum 
    Ping Crazy-E lite 
    TM TP5-X
  • Kadin 25Kadin 25 BIG K Members, Featured Writer  6652WRX Points: 41Posts: 6,652 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #11
    Sean2 wrote:
    <br />
    Isn't that the gentleman Kadin is teaching?<br />
    Oh my freind you have it a little backwards. Tom is the master and I am the student <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:

                Featured Writer For GolfWRX.com
                    Editor Product Reviews
                    Product Tester/Review Panel
                    Winner TMag Naples Trip 2012
                    See ya on the green...Kadin

  • ctgolfnut66ctgolfnut66 Members  455WRX Points: 82Posts: 455 Greens
    Joined:  #12
    Excellent video, Tom. This should be a pre-requisite for everyone here.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Max 9* (+1*) / Oban Kyoshi HB 65 04
    Ping G410 14.5* (+1.5*) / Accra TourZ X275 M4
    Ping G400 19* / Alta CB 70 S
    Titleist 716 TMB 4, 716 AP2 5-PW / KBS Tour 120 S
    Titleist Vokey SM8 Raw 50-12 F, 54-14 F, 58-12 D
    Scotty Cameron Phantom X 6STR 33"
    Titleist ProV1x
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  • ImBurningStarIVImBurningStarIV Members  674WRX Points: 97Handicap: 6.1Posts: 674 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #13
    I'm actually growing tired of these wishon adjustable driver threads.....I can change shafts whenever, and easily, who gives a f***. I'm a ho.
    Posted:
    TM M3 - Diamana D+
    TM M3 13° - Diamana D+
    TM M1 3HL - Diamana D+
    Miura ICL-601 18°- Crazy STP
    Miura CB 57 - Monaco TX
    Miura WS 53° & 59° - Monaco TX
    Bettinardi Tour Stock BB1 DASS / Miura KM-005 / Nike Origin B2-01 / TM Kia Ma Daytona / Yes Callie Fc
  • vinaxvinax Members  279WRX Points: 0Posts: 279
    Joined:  #14
    As a "shaft-toid" all I use adjustable drivers for is to quickly change shafts. <br />
    <br />
    I also hook open face drivers and slice closed face drivers so all this adjustment crap doesn't work for me.<br />
    <br />
    Give me a square face driver and I will put it down there in the middle of the fairway.
    Posted:
    Cleveland XL Custom 9* 6M3 X
    Wilson DXI 15* 18* Voodoo X
    Wildon DXI 22* Vooodoo S
    Srixon ZTX-2 5-PW w/ S300
    Cleveland 588 51* 56* 60* w/ S400
    Seemore FGP Mallet CB 36"
  • EzgolferEzgolfer Members  3185WRX Points: 152Posts: 3,185 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #15
    Great..
    Posted:
  • EmthreeEmthree M3+3 now Members  859WRX Points: 51Handicap: +1.1Posts: 859 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #16
    That was an education. I had heard something about not grounding modern drivers, this explains it in much better detail. Did not know folks did such trickery with wooden clubs though!
    Posted:
    910D3 8.5* 
    910F 17* 
    AP2 (714) 3-PW 
    Cleveland 588 Forged 50*/54*/60* 
    SC Newport2 Pro Platinum
  • WalleyeDaveWalleyeDave Members  1416WRX Points: 46Handicap: 7.2Posts: 1,416 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #17
    So I have finally done something right by always squaring up the head before I hit the ball. I have found adjustable drivers to do as advertised, but still just prefer to hit a fixed head model.<br />
    Thanks for the info Tom.
    Posted:
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  • TomMatreyekTomMatreyek Head Pro, Margaritaville Golf Club Members  119WRX Points: 57Posts: 119 Bunkers
    Joined:  #18
    This needs to be pinned.
    Posted:
    Driver: Cleveland 310 9.5
    FW: Titleist 913F 13.5
    Irons: Titleist AP-2 712 3-AW
    Wedges: Vokey SM4 56, 60
    Putter: Cameron Pro Platinum Newport 2
  • articaartica Overland Park, KSMembers  1156WRX Points: 105Handicap: 12Posts: 1,156 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #19
    I only like having the ability to adjust it from open, close or neutral. I tend to go close the majority of the time but if I start hooking, putting it in the open position for the back nine has helped.... It could be placebo though
    Posted:
    Tmag M3 9.0 - Tour AD TP 5s
    Ping G410 LST 3W - Tour AD MJ 7s
    Ping G 3H - Tour AD DI H85s 
    Cobra F7 one - 4i Steelfiber i110cw
    Miura P9005g - 5i-PW Steelfiber i110cw 
    48* - SM7 10 Steelfiber i110cw
    54* - Glide 3.0 eye Modus 120s 
    58* - Big toe  Modus 120s 
    Scotty Cameron Select 1.5
    WITB Link
  • pgagolfstuffpgagolfstuff Members  452WRX Points: 53Posts: 452 Greens
    Joined:  #20
    Wow this guy has forgotten more about golf technology than most of us will ever know.. Well done!
    Posted:
  • dunndunn Members  6362WRX Points: 163Handicap: 5Posts: 6,362 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #21
    I too just prefer a glue in....never had a problem with drivers the way they were....you just can't find any anymore....I too usually go for more loft and then open face turning the loft down......<br />
    <br />
    On square or open face drivers I never touch the adjustment.....<br />
    <br />
    Always kinda thought adjustable hosels were a waste of time<br />
    <br />
    Just make drivers square or closed in designated lofts<br />
    <br />
    Or like wishon has done...soft neck that's bendable
    Posted:
  • Ri_RedneckRi_Redneck Leather for Life!! Members  5950WRX Points: 469Handicap: 8Posts: 5,950 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #22
    Thank you Tom for taking that HUMONGOUS thread we all participated in and putting it in a simple 20 min video. Now we no longer have to try to get people to spend a day and a half reading through that thing to understand how these clubs are designed to work with various golfers. As a player who started out squaring the face at address, I always knew how the new adjustable drivers worked. The problem was relating this to those who DO NOT square the face. Tom is spot on with every aspect of adjustable woods with this video.<br />
    <br />
    I agree..... PIN THIS BABY!!!!<br />
    <br />
    BT
    Posted:

    Bag 1

    Cobra King LTD Pro 9.5* HZRDUS Black 7 6.0 @ 44.5"
    King LTD 14.5 - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43"
    F6 5-7 @ 17.5 - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5"
    Mizuno MP5 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
    Mizuno MP-T5 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge
    Grips - Grip Master Master Perforated Midsize

    Bag 2
    F7 9.5* - Aldila Copperhead 70TX @ 44.5
    King LTD Blk 14.5* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43
    King LTD Blk 19* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5
    Mizuno MP15 4-pw - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
    Mizuno MP-T5 Black 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge
    Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

    Bag 3
    Mizuno ST190 9.5* - Diamana "Flowerband" Whiteboard 73 S @ 44.5"
    Mizuno ST190 14.5* - Aldila RIP Phenom 80 S @ 43"
    Epic Flash Heavenwood 19* - Aldila RIP Phenom 80 S @ 42" 
    Mizuno MP25 4-pw - Recoil Proto 125 F4
    Mizuno MP-T5 Satin 52, 56, & 60 TT Wedge
    Grips - Grip Master Roo Midsize





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  • MitchellMitchell Members  5723WRX Points: 570Posts: 5,723 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #23
    Thanks for the concise explanation that can be used for easy reference
    Posted:
    Titleist 910d3 9.5* (d4 surefit) Fujikura Motore Speeder 7.2s
    Tour Edge Exotics cbx 16.5* Aldila RIP beta 80s 
    Titleist 962b 3-pw s300
    Vokey sm8 raw S 54* s300
    Vokey sm8 raw M 60* s300
    Ping Zing2 BeCu
  • vinaxvinax Members  279WRX Points: 0Posts: 279
    Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2014 #24
    Why dont adjustable drivers come with grips where the grip is marked all around the club (just like the adjustable hosel is marked) so that gripping around it would automatically build the grip around the square face angle? Why not just teach golfers to build their grip around the marking on the grip rather than holding the face visually square and trying to grip around it? Holding a face square visually probably causes more parallax errors that sets up the golfer for failure (by gripping stronger or weaker without knowing it) even before they have swung the club. Hope this makes sense to someone here.<br />
    <br />
    Form example put the same marking as the sleeve below onto the grip that comes with the driver? So a 12 position hosel would need 12 markings on the grip to line up and they could be run down first 6" of the grip so golfer could correctly grip around it.<br />
    <br />
    $_35.JPG<br />
    <br />
    And put the matching markings on the grip<br />
    <br />
    Cleveland_CG_Velvet_Golf_Grip.jpg
    Posted:
    Cleveland XL Custom 9* 6M3 X
    Wilson DXI 15* 18* Voodoo X
    Wildon DXI 22* Vooodoo S
    Srixon ZTX-2 5-PW w/ S300
    Cleveland 588 51* 56* 60* w/ S400
    Seemore FGP Mallet CB 36"
  • rebbyrebby CNH 320 ClubWRX  2190WRX Points: 149Posts: 2,190 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #25
    TomWishon wrote:
    <br />
    erock9174 wrote:
    <br />
    So let me know if I got this straight.<br />
    <br />
    Adjustable driver:<br />
    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down<br />
    <br />
    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Absolutely correct, but in both cases the lie angle does also change with the change in the hosel device for any of the adj hosel drivers.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    That actually makes sense and, when I pictured it in my head, that's always what I assumed was going on.<br />
    <br />
    Now what happens when we throw in a sole plate like the R11/R11S? In this case do we actually have access to all 3 variables in a single adjustable club? On the surface, it would certainly appear to be the case, although, perhaps, not in the exact manner that TM advertises it? IIRC, TM advertises the sole plate as what changes the face angle, wouldn't the sole plate change the loft (and conversely, the hosel would change the face angle, not the loft)? In picturing what would happen to the measurements of my driver in a Mitchell machine when making the aforementioned modifications, the converse to TM's advertising makes a lot more sense.<br />
    <br />
    As if I'm not confusing the situation enough already... It seems that Tour Edge Exotics is being even more/less confusing about what their adjustments are doing. I have to ask however, how are they getting a "loft" adjustment while still disclosing what's going on w/the face angle?<br />
    <br />
    Performance Guide). What's the meaning of the * on their "grid"? I can't seem to find it on their website. Are they actually disclosing the exact phenomenon that Tom so clearly explained in the documentation included with the club?<br />
    <br />
    Posted:
    G400, Atmos FOH 6x | TEE CB Pro F2, Atmos Blue 8x
    Miura 1957 2/4-PW, KBS Tour-V 125 - TM P730 3-PW, KBS $-Taper 125
    Ben Hogan Equalizer 53/58, KBS Tour-V 120
    Mann Mini - Cameron CT | TP5x | My WITB Thread
  • knock it closeknock it close Members  7979WRX Points: 193Handicap: +2.4Posts: 7,979 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2014 #26
    rebby wrote:
    <br />
    Then there is Titleist with their Sure-Fit adapter (see the Performance Guide). What's the meaning of the * on their "grid"? I can't seem to find it on their website. Are they actually disclosing the exact phenomenon that Tom so clearly explained in the documentation included with the club?<br />
    <br />
    The star used to denote effective loft (I have an old book and that what it says at the bottom), so loft when the face angle is square, so pretty much exactly what Mr. Wishon was explaining.<br />
    Great video Tom! Thanks for going to the effort to put it together.
    Posted:
    M2, maybe
    915 FD
    913 HD
    712u 3
    714 AP2 4-p
    SM5 53, 59
    Circa62
  • JRSJRS Members  988WRX Points: 110Posts: 988 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #27
    bending/adjusting the hosel fore an aft changes face angle AND loft, maybe not by the technical definition but in relative terms in comparison to it's previous face orientation. and not just because the face angle change affects effective loft when squared.<br />
    <br />
    if the lie angle was 90 deg bending the hosel fore or aft would result in a loft change only. and of course, if the lie angle was zero the fore/aft bend would change the face angle only. up/down bending only affects lie in either case.<br />
    <br />
    because our lie angles are between 90 and zero the fore/aft bend changes both in similar amounts. with a right handed club, if you bend the hosel forward the face will point more left and more up than it did previously.<br />
    <br />
    this is true for irons and woods or pretty much any object you mount on the end of a stick that's held at a near to 45 degree angle to the ground and then bend the bottom of the stick. but for some reason the golf club industry treats woods and irons differently because one likes to sit on the ground in a certain way.<br />
    <br />
    in my opinion driver loft should be measured like an iron, with the shaft clamped at the lie angle and neutral shaft lean. then the golfer can compare apples to apples. if you have 2 10 degree "loft" drivers one with an open face and one closed they will play as 2 different lofts, assuming the reason for selecting an open or closed face driver was to promote a square face at impact.
    Posted:
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  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Summer/ Michigan-- Winter/ FloridaMembers  5556WRX Points: 538Handicap: 6.3 HCIPosts: 5,556 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #28
    Great video, great information. for myself, I have been a ball flight and trajectory <br />
    kind of player. Regardless of how the modern adjustable drivers are set up. All in<br />
    all, the adjustable drivers are fine, but like everything else, there are limits.
    Posted:


    Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....

    4 HC
  • JCAGJCAG John Curry Members  2213WRX Points: 175Posts: 2,213 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2014 #29
    Vin<br />
    <br />
    As far as grip alignment. Many people were taught to grip the club with the grip aligned in their hands in a specific way. The old Golf Pride Green Victory grip was a favorite of teachers for this reason.<br />
    <br />
    Somebody mentioned old wooden club tricks. One was to align the crown decals a few degrees off for optical reasons. Many aligned the decal (especially the longer face to heel ones) so shifting it a few degrees would cause them to align the face different as their eyes saw the decal.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • pafillpafill Members  51WRX Points: 0Handicap: 18Posts: 51
    Joined:  #30
    <br />
    [media=] />
    <br />
    <br />
    My thought has always been that specifications on a club were based on a machine swinging from a fixed, consistant position. I know that the way I swing the club is different than the machine and nearly all of you. My best results from adjusting my R1 came from adding impact paper to the face and hitting balls and adjusting all aspects until I reached a point of where I was more consistant in hitting the sweet spot. The settings I've settled on have been a surprise but my contact has improved my driving.
    Posted:
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  • TomWishonTomWishon Sponsors  3663WRX Points: 125Posts: 3,663 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #31
    rebby wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    Now what happens when we throw in a sole plate like the R11/R11S? In this case do we actually have access to all 3 variables in a single adjustable club? On the surface, it would certainly appear to be the case, although, perhaps, not in the exact manner that TM advertises it? IIRC, TM advertises the sole plate as what changes the face angle, wouldn't the sole plate change the loft (and conversely, the hosel would change the face angle, not the loft)? <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    It is an attempt to have access to face angle with loft, but the loft measurement indicated on the hosel sleeve and the face angle measurement indicated on the sole dial are not what the club measures for either spec when placed in the soled position. And for the sole dial to even have a chance to affect face angle, the head has to sit on its sole. I have all measurements of loft, lie and face angle for each of the 64 different combinations of the hosel sleeve and sole dial if anyone wants to see them but with 64 lines and 3 columns that's too many numbers to post here to flood everyone out. Also, the company says nothing about lie being affected from either the hosel sleeve or the sole dial but it most certainly does change with each different rotation of the hosel sleeve. <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    rebby wrote:
    <br />
    As if I'm not confusing the situation enough already... It seems that Tour Edge Exotics is being even more/less confusing about what their adjustments are doing. I have to ask however, how are they getting a "loft" adjustment while still disclosing what's going on w/the face angle?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I have not had one of these Tour Edge drivers to measure but a quick inspection shows that it uses a rotational hosel sleeve just like all the others. And the ONLY way ANY of these hosel sleeves can be made is to have the bore at an angle to the outside plane of the sleeve so that upon rotation to different positions, the shaft is angled differently into the head and with relation to the sole plane. There is no other possible way that a hosel sleeve can be engineered. Therefore there just is no way that ANY adjustable hosel driver can change both loft and face angle when the head is soled. And if the head is held at a 0 face position, obviously that locks face angle always at 0, so that orientation of the head won't allow the loft and face angle to change together with each hosel adjustment.
    Posted:
17

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