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How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to pos

 Albatross85 ·  
Albatross85Albatross85 Tiger is the GOATSt. Louis, MO 2931WRX Points: 202Members Posts: 2,931
Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2014 in WRX Club Techs #1
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Posted:
Titleist TS3 8.5* ...........................................Tensei Pro White 70TX proto 44.5" D5
Titleist TS2 13.5*..........................................Tensei Pro White 70TX 42.75" D2
Ping G410 19* H..........................................GD AD IZ 95X 40.25" D4
Adams Idea Pro Tour Prototype 23*....Aldila Proto By You 80X D3
Wilson FG Tour V6 5-Gw .........................PX LZ 6.5 +3/8" D2-D5 off 46* Pw
Mizuno T7 55.09 .........................................PX LZ 6.5 35.5" D6
Vokey TVD 60M...........................................DG TI Onyx S400 35.5" D6
Tour Only Odyssey Jailbird Mini Versa | BWB | plumbers neck | WHP insert | BGT Stability shaft
Bridgestone Tour B XS


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Comments

  • jldavis73jldavis73  1068WRX Points: 113Members Posts: 1,068
    Joined:  #2
    For once, I feel a little bit smarter after watching something on YouTube. Thanks!
    Posted:
    Srixon Z785 
    Cleveland Classic XL 14*, Black Tie X
    Srixon Z945 3-PW, Project X 6.5
    Cleveland RTX 3 52*, 56* 60*, Dynamic Gold 
    Odyssey Sabretooth Backstryke w/Flat Cat 
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  • Night trainNight train  2885WRX Points: 258Members Posts: 2,885
    Joined:  #3
    ..............so I'm not really crazy after all





    Every adjustable driver I've owned I prefered hitting in the stock configuration
    Posted:
  • erock9174erock9174 North Canton, OH 4100WRX Points: 217Members Posts: 4,100
    Joined:  #4
    So let me know if I got this straight.



    Adjustable driver:

    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down



    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle
    Posted:

    Callaway Epic Flash 12*

    Exotics Xrail 3h | 4h | 5h

    Cleveland  588 Altitude 6-PW

    Cleveland CBX 50*/56*/60* - Callaway Sure Out 64*

    Ping Sigma 2 Tyne 4 Platinum

    Titleist ProV1x Yellow

    Handicap: 8.5


  • steviethevsteviethev  364WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 364
    Joined:  #5
    Fantastic video. Thanks.
    Posted:
  • harold bainesharold baines  3509WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 3,509
    Joined:  #6


    ..............so I'm not really crazy after all





    Every adjustable driver I've owned I prefered hitting in the stock configuration




    Right there with you, adjusted from standard always played poorly for me. I'd go from liking a club to hating its feel with a small adjustment
    Posted:
  • TomWishonTomWishon  3660WRX Points: 109Sponsors Posts: 3,660
    Joined:  #7
    erock9174 wrote:


    So let me know if I got this straight.



    Adjustable driver:

    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down



    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle




    Absolutely correct, but in both cases the lie angle does also change with the change in the hosel device for any of the adj hosel drivers.
    Posted:
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  • Sean2Sean2  31031WRX Points: 240Members Posts: 31,031
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    Isn't that the gentleman Kadin is teaching?
    Posted:
  • wolfpackwolfpack  2636WRX Points: 2Members Posts: 2,636
    Joined:  #9
    Good stuff Tom
    Posted:
    Cobra Bio Cell 11*
    F6 Baffler 17.5
    Hibore Hybrid 22*
    850 Forged 5-GW
    MP-T10 54, EYE 2 61
    Odyssey 7
  • golf9596golf9596  2111WRX Points: 152Members Posts: 2,111
    Joined:  #10
    Tom,



    I prefer to look at an open face, therefore I choose a higher loft in order to open the face and lower the loft…Am I on the right track??? Thanks for the great video.
    Posted:
    Driver..Ping G410 LST-PO-70S
    3 Wood Cally Epic Flash Sub Zero 15* w/Smoke 70 gram-S
    Cally Flash Hybrid 18.* Speeder VC8-S
    Adams MB2 4-PW w/110SteelFibers
    Putter.....Scott Cameron Select 1.5 Squareback
    Bettinardi BB1F (2020) on order 
    Mac Daddy... PM..52* & PM 58*
    Titleist 4up Carry
    TM TP5-X
  • Kadin 25Kadin 25 BIG K  6652WRX Points: 41Members, Featured Writer Posts: 6,652
    Joined:  #11
    Sean2 wrote:


    Isn't that the gentleman Kadin is teaching?
    Oh my freind you have it a little backwards. Tom is the master and I am the student image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:

                Featured Writer For GolfWRX.com
                    Editor Product Reviews
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                    Winner TMag Naples Trip 2012
                    See ya on the green...Kadin

  • ctgolfnut66ctgolfnut66  453WRX Points: 82Members Posts: 453
    Joined:  #12
    Excellent video, Tom. This should be a pre-requisite for everyone here.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Max 9* (+1*) / Oban Kyoshi HB 65 04
    Ping G410 17.5* (-1*) / Accra TourZ X275 M4
    Ping G400 19* / Alta CB 70 S
    New Level 902 Forged 4-PW / KBS Tour 120 S
    TBD Wedges
    Scotty Cameron Phantom X 6 STR 33"
    Titleist ProV1x
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  • ImBurningStarIVImBurningStarIV  674WRX Points: 92Members Posts: 674
    Joined:  #13
    I'm actually growing tired of these wishon adjustable driver threads.....I can change shafts whenever, and easily, who gives a f***. I'm a ho.
    Posted:
    TM M3 - Diamana D+
    TM M3 13° - Diamana D+
    TM M1 3HL - Diamana D+
    Miura ICL-601 18°- Crazy STP
    Miura CB 57 - Monaco TX
    Miura WS 53° & 59° - Monaco TX
    Bettinardi Tour Stock BB1 DASS / Miura KM-005 / Nike Origin B2-01 / TM Kia Ma Daytona / Yes Callie Fc
  • vinaxvinax  279WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 279
    Joined:  #14
    As a "shaft-toid" all I use adjustable drivers for is to quickly change shafts.



    I also hook open face drivers and slice closed face drivers so all this adjustment crap doesn't work for me.



    Give me a square face driver and I will put it down there in the middle of the fairway.
    Posted:
    Cleveland XL Custom 9* 6M3 X
    Wilson DXI 15* 18* Voodoo X
    Wildon DXI 22* Vooodoo S
    Srixon ZTX-2 5-PW w/ S300
    Cleveland 588 51* 56* 60* w/ S400
    Seemore FGP Mallet CB 36"
  • EzgolferEzgolfer  3172WRX Points: 145Members Posts: 3,172
    Joined:  #15
    Great..
    Posted:
  • EmthreeEmthree M3+3 now  858WRX Points: 1Members Posts: 858
    Joined:  #16
    That was an education. I had heard something about not grounding modern drivers, this explains it in much better detail. Did not know folks did such trickery with wooden clubs though!
    Posted:
    910D3 8.5* PX 8A4 7.0
    910F 17* PX 8A4 7.0
    AP2 (714) 3-PW PX 7.0
    Cleveland 588 Forged 50*/54*/60* PX 5.5
    SC Newport2 Pro Platinum
  • WalleyeDaveWalleyeDave  1414WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 1,414
    Joined:  #17
    So I have finally done something right by always squaring up the head before I hit the ball. I have found adjustable drivers to do as advertised, but still just prefer to hit a fixed head model.

    Thanks for the info Tom.
    Posted:
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  • TomMatreyekTomMatreyek Head Pro, Margaritaville Golf Club  119WRX Points: 57Members Posts: 119
    Joined:  #18
    This needs to be pinned.
    Posted:
    Driver: Cleveland 310 9.5
    FW: Titleist 913F 13.5
    Irons: Titleist AP-2 712 3-AW
    Wedges: Vokey SM4 56, 60
    Putter: Cameron Pro Platinum Newport 2
  • articaartica Overland Park, KS 1132WRX Points: 97Members Posts: 1,132
    Joined:  #19
    I only like having the ability to adjust it from open, close or neutral. I tend to go close the majority of the time but if I start hooking, putting it in the open position for the back nine has helped.... It could be placebo though
    Posted:
    M1 460 9.5 - Oban Kiyoshi Gold 65g 04
    - Testing G400 9* - Tour 65 stiff shaft
    M1 3W - Oban Kiyoshi White 65g 04
    M1 5w - Oban Devotion 75g 04
    PXG 0311xf - 4-GW Steelfiber i125 Stiff
    RTX 3.0 CB - 54*, 58* TG - DG Wedge
    Scotty Cameron Select 1.5
    WITB Link
  • pgagolfstuffpgagolfstuff  445WRX Points: 45Members Posts: 445
    Joined:  #20
    Wow this guy has forgotten more about golf technology than most of us will ever know.. Well done!
    Posted:
  • dunndunn  6362WRX Points: 160Members Posts: 6,362
    Joined:  #21
    I too just prefer a glue in....never had a problem with drivers the way they were....you just can't find any anymore....I too usually go for more loft and then open face turning the loft down......



    On square or open face drivers I never touch the adjustment.....



    Always kinda thought adjustable hosels were a waste of time



    Just make drivers square or closed in designated lofts



    Or like wishon has done...soft neck that's bendable
    Posted:
  • Ri_RedneckRi_Redneck Leather for Life!!  5625WRX Points: 281Members Posts: 5,625
    Joined:  #22
    Thank you Tom for taking that HUMONGOUS thread we all participated in and putting it in a simple 20 min video. Now we no longer have to try to get people to spend a day and a half reading through that thing to understand how these clubs are designed to work with various golfers. As a player who started out squaring the face at address, I always knew how the new adjustable drivers worked. The problem was relating this to those who DO NOT square the face. Tom is spot on with every aspect of adjustable woods with this video.



    I agree..... PIN THIS BABY!!!!



    BT
    Posted:
    Bag 1
    F7 9.5* - Aldila Copperhead 70TX @ 44.5
    King LTD Blk 14.5* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43
    King LTD Blk 19* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5
    Mizuno MP15 4-pw - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
    Mizuno MP-T5 Black 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge

    Bag 2
    Mizuno ST180 9.5* - Diamana Kai'Li 70 X
    Mizuno GPX850 14.5* - Motore Speeder TS 7.3 S
    Mizuno GPX850 20* - Motore Speeder TS 8.3
    Mizuno MP25 4-pw - Recoil Proto 125 F4
    Mizuno MP-T5 Satin 52, 56, & 60 TT Wedge
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  • MitchellMitchell  5588WRX Points: 429Members Posts: 5,588
    Joined:  #23
    Thanks for the concise explanation that can be used for easy reference
    Posted:
    Taylormade r510tp 10.5* Speeder TS Evo 661
    Taylormade V Steel TP 13* ATX Tour Blue 85
    Taylormade V Steel 16.5* ATX Tour Blue 85
    Titleist 818h1 21* Atmos Blue TS HB 8
    Titleist 962b 2-pw s400 (dependent upon course, hybrid and fairways used)
    Artisan 53* s400
    Artisan 58* s400
    Odyssey White Hot Pro #2
  • vinaxvinax  279WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 279
    Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2014 #24
    Why dont adjustable drivers come with grips where the grip is marked all around the club (just like the adjustable hosel is marked) so that gripping around it would automatically build the grip around the square face angle? Why not just teach golfers to build their grip around the marking on the grip rather than holding the face visually square and trying to grip around it? Holding a face square visually probably causes more parallax errors that sets up the golfer for failure (by gripping stronger or weaker without knowing it) even before they have swung the club. Hope this makes sense to someone here.



    Form example put the same marking as the sleeve below onto the grip that comes with the driver? So a 12 position hosel would need 12 markings on the grip to line up and they could be run down first 6" of the grip so golfer could correctly grip around it.



    $_35.JPG



    And put the matching markings on the grip



    Cleveland_CG_Velvet_Golf_Grip.jpg
    Posted:
    Cleveland XL Custom 9* 6M3 X
    Wilson DXI 15* 18* Voodoo X
    Wildon DXI 22* Vooodoo S
    Srixon ZTX-2 5-PW w/ S300
    Cleveland 588 51* 56* 60* w/ S400
    Seemore FGP Mallet CB 36"
  • rebbyrebby CNH 320  2190WRX Points: 139ClubWRX Posts: 2,190
    Joined:  #25
    TomWishon wrote:

    erock9174 wrote:


    So let me know if I got this straight.



    Adjustable driver:

    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down



    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle




    Absolutely correct, but in both cases the lie angle does also change with the change in the hosel device for any of the adj hosel drivers.




    That actually makes sense and, when I pictured it in my head, that's always what I assumed was going on.



    Now what happens when we throw in a sole plate like the R11/R11S? In this case do we actually have access to all 3 variables in a single adjustable club? On the surface, it would certainly appear to be the case, although, perhaps, not in the exact manner that TM advertises it? IIRC, TM advertises the sole plate as what changes the face angle, wouldn't the sole plate change the loft (and conversely, the hosel would change the face angle, not the loft)? In picturing what would happen to the measurements of my driver in a Mitchell machine when making the aforementioned modifications, the converse to TM's advertising makes a lot more sense.



    As if I'm not confusing the situation enough already... It seems that Tour Edge Exotics is being even more/less confusing about what their adjustments are doing. I have to ask however, how are they getting a "loft" adjustment while still disclosing what's going on w/the face angle?



    Performance Guide). What's the meaning of the * on their "grid"? I can't seem to find it on their website. Are they actually disclosing the exact phenomenon that Tom so clearly explained in the documentation included with the club?



    Posted:
    G400, Atmos FOH 6x | TEE CB Pro F2, Atmos Blue 8x
    Miura 1957 2/4-PW, KBS Tour-V 125 - TM P730 3-PW, KBS $-Taper 125
    Ben Hogan Equalizer 53/58, KBS Tour-V 120
    Mann Mini - Cameron CT | TP5x | My WITB Thread
  • knock it closeknock it close  7970WRX Points: 175Members Posts: 7,970
    Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2014 #26
    rebby wrote:


    Then there is Titleist with their Sure-Fit adapter (see the Performance Guide). What's the meaning of the * on their "grid"? I can't seem to find it on their website. Are they actually disclosing the exact phenomenon that Tom so clearly explained in the documentation included with the club?



    The star used to denote effective loft (I have an old book and that what it says at the bottom), so loft when the face angle is square, so pretty much exactly what Mr. Wishon was explaining.

    Great video Tom! Thanks for going to the effort to put it together.
    Posted:
    M2, maybe
    915 FD
    913 HD
    712u 3
    714 AP2 4-p
    SM5 53, 59
    Circa62
  • JRSJRS  988WRX Points: 109Members Posts: 988
    Joined:  #27
    bending/adjusting the hosel fore an aft changes face angle AND loft, maybe not by the technical definition but in relative terms in comparison to it's previous face orientation. and not just because the face angle change affects effective loft when squared.



    if the lie angle was 90 deg bending the hosel fore or aft would result in a loft change only. and of course, if the lie angle was zero the fore/aft bend would change the face angle only. up/down bending only affects lie in either case.



    because our lie angles are between 90 and zero the fore/aft bend changes both in similar amounts. with a right handed club, if you bend the hosel forward the face will point more left and more up than it did previously.



    this is true for irons and woods or pretty much any object you mount on the end of a stick that's held at a near to 45 degree angle to the ground and then bend the bottom of the stick. but for some reason the golf club industry treats woods and irons differently because one likes to sit on the ground in a certain way.



    in my opinion driver loft should be measured like an iron, with the shaft clamped at the lie angle and neutral shaft lean. then the golfer can compare apples to apples. if you have 2 10 degree "loft" drivers one with an open face and one closed they will play as 2 different lofts, assuming the reason for selecting an open or closed face driver was to promote a square face at impact.
    Posted:
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  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Summer/ Michigan-- Winter/ Florida 5306WRX Points: 425Members Posts: 5,306
    Joined:  #28
    Great video, great information. for myself, I have been a ball flight and trajectory

    kind of player. Regardless of how the modern adjustable drivers are set up. All in

    all, the adjustable drivers are fine, but like everything else, there are limits.
    Posted:


    Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....

    4 HC
  • JCAGJCAG John Curry  2136WRX Points: 148Members Posts: 2,136
    Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2014 #29
    Vin



    As far as grip alignment. Many people were taught to grip the club with the grip aligned in their hands in a specific way. The old Golf Pride Green Victory grip was a favorite of teachers for this reason.



    Somebody mentioned old wooden club tricks. One was to align the crown decals a few degrees off for optical reasons. Many aligned the decal (especially the longer face to heel ones) so shifting it a few degrees would cause them to align the face different as their eyes saw the decal.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • pafillpafill  51WRX Points: 0Members Posts: 51
    Joined:  #30


    [media=]




    My thought has always been that specifications on a club were based on a machine swinging from a fixed, consistant position. I know that the way I swing the club is different than the machine and nearly all of you. My best results from adjusting my R1 came from adding impact paper to the face and hitting balls and adjusting all aspects until I reached a point of where I was more consistant in hitting the sweet spot. The settings I've settled on have been a surprise but my contact has improved my driving.
    Posted:
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  • TomWishonTomWishon  3660WRX Points: 109Sponsors Posts: 3,660
    Joined:  #31
    rebby wrote:




    Now what happens when we throw in a sole plate like the R11/R11S? In this case do we actually have access to all 3 variables in a single adjustable club? On the surface, it would certainly appear to be the case, although, perhaps, not in the exact manner that TM advertises it? IIRC, TM advertises the sole plate as what changes the face angle, wouldn't the sole plate change the loft (and conversely, the hosel would change the face angle, not the loft)?




    It is an attempt to have access to face angle with loft, but the loft measurement indicated on the hosel sleeve and the face angle measurement indicated on the sole dial are not what the club measures for either spec when placed in the soled position. And for the sole dial to even have a chance to affect face angle, the head has to sit on its sole. I have all measurements of loft, lie and face angle for each of the 64 different combinations of the hosel sleeve and sole dial if anyone wants to see them but with 64 lines and 3 columns that's too many numbers to post here to flood everyone out. Also, the company says nothing about lie being affected from either the hosel sleeve or the sole dial but it most certainly does change with each different rotation of the hosel sleeve.




    rebby wrote:


    As if I'm not confusing the situation enough already... It seems that Tour Edge Exotics is being even more/less confusing about what their adjustments are doing. I have to ask however, how are they getting a "loft" adjustment while still disclosing what's going on w/the face angle?






    I have not had one of these Tour Edge drivers to measure but a quick inspection shows that it uses a rotational hosel sleeve just like all the others. And the ONLY way ANY of these hosel sleeves can be made is to have the bore at an angle to the outside plane of the sleeve so that upon rotation to different positions, the shaft is angled differently into the head and with relation to the sole plane. There is no other possible way that a hosel sleeve can be engineered. Therefore there just is no way that ANY adjustable hosel driver can change both loft and face angle when the head is soled. And if the head is held at a 0 face position, obviously that locks face angle always at 0, so that orientation of the head won't allow the loft and face angle to change together with each hosel adjustment.
    Posted:
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