How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to pos

Albatross85Albatross85 Tiger is the GOATSt. Louis, MOMembers Posts: 2,830 ✭✭
edited Sep 18, 2014 in WRX Club Techs #1
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Post edited by Unknown User on
Titleist TS3 8.5* ............................Tensei Pro White 70TX proto 44.5" D5
Titleist TS2 15.75* .......................Tensei Pro White 80TX proto 42.5" D4
Mizuno MP18 Fli-Hi #2 17.5* Handcrafted HZRDUS 105 6.5 39.75" D2
Titleist 712U 4 iron ....................C-taper S+ 125 D2
Wilson FG Tour V6 5-P .............PX LZ 6.5 +3/8" D3.5 off 46* PW
SM6 50.12F ...................................PX LZ 6.5 + 3/8"" D5
Mizuno T7 55.09 .........................PX LZ 6.5 35.5" D6
Mizuno T7 60.10 .........................Tour Issue Onyx S400 35.5" D6
Odyssey Tour Only Jailbird Mini Versa BWB Plumbers Neck WHP insert
Bridgestone Tour B XS


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Comments

  • jldavis73jldavis73 Posts: 1,061 ✭✭
    For once, I feel a little bit smarter after watching something on YouTube. Thanks!
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  • Night trainNight train Members Posts: 2,818 ✭✭
    ..............so I'm not really crazy after all





    Every adjustable driver I've owned I prefered hitting in the stock configuration
  • erock9174erock9174 North Canton, OHMembers Posts: 3,928 ✭✭
    So let me know if I got this straight.



    Adjustable driver:

    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down



    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle

    Driver: Ping Rhapsody 16*
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    Hybrids: Exotics XRail 23*/26*
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    Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne H


  • Fantastic video. Thanks.
  • harold bainesharold baines Members Posts: 3,509


    ..............so I'm not really crazy after all





    Every adjustable driver I've owned I prefered hitting in the stock configuration




    Right there with you, adjusted from standard always played poorly for me. I'd go from liking a club to hating its feel with a small adjustment
  • TomWishonTomWishon Sponsors Posts: 3,653 ✭✭
    erock9174 wrote:


    So let me know if I got this straight.



    Adjustable driver:

    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down



    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle




    Absolutely correct, but in both cases the lie angle does also change with the change in the hosel device for any of the adj hosel drivers.
  • Sean2Sean2 #TheWRX (Callaway Trip) Members Posts: 30,826 ✭✭
    Isn't that the gentleman Kadin is teaching?
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  • wolfpackwolfpack Members Posts: 2,636
    Good stuff Tom
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  • golf9596golf9596 Members Posts: 2,076 ✭✭
    Tom,



    I prefer to look at an open face, therefore I choose a higher loft in order to open the face and lower the loft…Am I on the right track??? Thanks for the great video.
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  • Kadin 25Kadin 25 BIG K Members, Featured Writer Posts: 6,652
    Sean2 wrote:


    Isn't that the gentleman Kadin is teaching?
    Oh my freind you have it a little backwards. Tom is the master and I am the student image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

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  • ctgolfnut66ctgolfnut66 Posts: 441 ✭✭
    Excellent video, Tom. This should be a pre-requisite for everyone here.
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  • ImBurningStarIVImBurningStarIV Members Posts: 672 ✭✭
    I'm actually growing tired of these wishon adjustable driver threads.....I can change shafts whenever, and easily, who gives a f***. I'm a ho.
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  • vinaxvinax Members Posts: 279
    As a "shaft-toid" all I use adjustable drivers for is to quickly change shafts.



    I also hook open face drivers and slice closed face drivers so all this adjustment **** doesn't work for me.



    Give me a square face driver and I will put it down there in the middle of the fairway.
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  • EzgolferEzgolfer Members Posts: 3,162 ✭✭
    Great..
  • EmthreeEmthree M3+3 now Posts: 858
    That was an education. I had heard something about not grounding modern drivers, this explains it in much better detail. Did not know folks did such trickery with wooden clubs though!
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  • WalleyeDaveWalleyeDave Members Posts: 1,414
    So I have finally done something right by always squaring up the head before I hit the ball. I have found adjustable drivers to do as advertised, but still just prefer to hit a fixed head model.

    Thanks for the info Tom.
  • TomMatreyekTomMatreyek Head Pro, Margaritaville Golf Club Members Posts: 118 ✭✭
    This needs to be pinned.
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  • articaartica Members Posts: 1,100 ✭✭
    I only like having the ability to adjust it from open, close or neutral. I tend to go close the majority of the time but if I start hooking, putting it in the open position for the back nine has helped.... It could be placebo though
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  • Wow this guy has forgotten more about golf technology than most of us will ever know.. Well done!
  • dunndunn Members Posts: 6,361 ✭✭
    I too just prefer a glue in....never had a problem with drivers the way they were....you just can't find any anymore....I too usually go for more loft and then open face turning the loft down......



    On square or open face drivers I never touch the adjustment.....



    Always kinda thought adjustable hosels were a waste of time



    Just make drivers square or closed in designated lofts



    Or like wishon has done...soft neck that's bendable
  • Ri_RedneckRi_Redneck Leather for Life!! Members Posts: 5,433 ✭✭
    Thank you Tom for taking that HUMONGOUS thread we all participated in and putting it in a simple 20 min video. Now we no longer have to try to get people to spend a day and a half reading through that thing to understand how these clubs are designed to work with various golfers. As a player who started out squaring the face at address, I always knew how the new adjustable drivers worked. The problem was relating this to those who DO NOT square the face. Tom is spot on with every aspect of adjustable woods with this video.



    I agree..... PIN THIS BABY!!!!



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  • MitchellMitchell Members Posts: 5,451 ✭✭
    Thanks for the concise explanation that can be used for easy reference
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  • vinaxvinax Members Posts: 279
    edited Sep 18, 2014 #24
    Why dont adjustable drivers come with grips where the grip is marked all around the club (just like the adjustable hosel is marked) so that gripping around it would automatically build the grip around the square face angle? Why not just teach golfers to build their grip around the marking on the grip rather than holding the face visually square and trying to grip around it? Holding a face square visually probably causes more parallax errors that sets up the golfer for failure (by gripping stronger or weaker without knowing it) even before they have swung the club. Hope this makes sense to someone here.



    Form example put the same marking as the sleeve below onto the grip that comes with the driver? So a 12 position hosel would need 12 markings on the grip to line up and they could be run down first 6" of the grip so golfer could correctly grip around it.



    $_35.JPG



    And put the matching markings on the grip



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  • rebbyrebby CNH 320 ClubWRX Posts: 2,178 ✭✭
    TomWishon wrote:

    erock9174 wrote:


    So let me know if I got this straight.



    Adjustable driver:

    Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down



    Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle




    Absolutely correct, but in both cases the lie angle does also change with the change in the hosel device for any of the adj hosel drivers.




    That actually makes sense and, when I pictured it in my head, that's always what I assumed was going on.



    Now what happens when we throw in a sole plate like the R11/R11S? In this case do we actually have access to all 3 variables in a single adjustable club? On the surface, it would certainly appear to be the case, although, perhaps, not in the exact manner that TM advertises it? IIRC, TM advertises the sole plate as what changes the face angle, wouldn't the sole plate change the loft (and conversely, the hosel would change the face angle, not the loft)? In picturing what would happen to the measurements of my driver in a Mitchell machine when making the aforementioned modifications, the converse to TM's advertising makes a lot more sense.



    As if I'm not confusing the situation enough already... It seems that Tour Edge Exotics is being even more/less confusing about what their adjustments are doing. I have to ask however, how are they getting a "loft" adjustment while still disclosing what's going on w/the face angle?



    Performance Guide). What's the meaning of the * on their "grid"? I can't seem to find it on their website. Are they actually disclosing the exact phenomenon that Tom so clearly explained in the documentation included with the club?



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  • knock it closeknock it close Members Posts: 7,945 ✭✭
    edited Sep 18, 2014 #26
    rebby wrote:


    Then there is Titleist with their Sure-Fit adapter (see the Performance Guide). What's the meaning of the * on their "grid"? I can't seem to find it on their website. Are they actually disclosing the exact phenomenon that Tom so clearly explained in the documentation included with the club?



    The star used to denote effective loft (I have an old book and that what it says at the bottom), so loft when the face angle is square, so pretty much exactly what Mr. Wishon was explaining.

    Great video Tom! Thanks for going to the effort to put it together.
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  • JRSJRS Members Posts: 957 ✭✭
    bending/adjusting the hosel fore an aft changes face angle AND loft, maybe not by the technical definition but in relative terms in comparison to it's previous face orientation. and not just because the face angle change affects effective loft when squared.



    if the lie angle was 90 deg bending the hosel fore or aft would result in a loft change only. and of course, if the lie angle was zero the fore/aft bend would change the face angle only. up/down bending only affects lie in either case.



    because our lie angles are between 90 and zero the fore/aft bend changes both in similar amounts. with a right handed club, if you bend the hosel forward the face will point more left and more up than it did previously.



    this is true for irons and woods or pretty much any object you mount on the end of a stick that's held at a near to 45 degree angle to the ground and then bend the bottom of the stick. but for some reason the golf club industry treats woods and irons differently because one likes to sit on the ground in a certain way.



    in my opinion driver loft should be measured like an iron, with the shaft clamped at the lie angle and neutral shaft lean. then the golfer can compare apples to apples. if you have 2 10 degree "loft" drivers one with an open face and one closed they will play as 2 different lofts, assuming the reason for selecting an open or closed face driver was to promote a square face at impact.
  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Members Posts: 5,033 ✭✭
    Great video, great information. for myself, I have been a ball flight and trajectory

    kind of player. Regardless of how the modern adjustable drivers are set up. All in

    all, the adjustable drivers are fine, but like everything else, there are limits.


    Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....
  • JCAGJCAG John Curry Members Posts: 2,057 ClubWRX
    edited Sep 18, 2014 #29
    Vin



    As far as grip alignment. Many people were taught to grip the club with the grip aligned in their hands in a specific way. The old Golf Pride Green Victory grip was a favorite of teachers for this reason.



    Somebody mentioned old wooden club tricks. One was to align the crown decals a few degrees off for optical reasons. Many aligned the decal (especially the longer face to heel ones) so shifting it a few degrees would cause them to align the face different as their eyes saw the decal.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • pafillpafill Members Posts: 51


    [media=]




    My thought has always been that specifications on a club were based on a machine swinging from a fixed, consistant position. I know that the way I swing the club is different than the machine and nearly all of you. My best results from adjusting my R1 came from adding impact paper to the face and hitting balls and adjusting all aspects until I reached a point of where I was more consistant in hitting the sweet spot. The settings I've settled on have been a surprise but my contact has improved my driving.
  • TomWishonTomWishon Sponsors Posts: 3,653 ✭✭
    rebby wrote:




    Now what happens when we throw in a sole plate like the R11/R11S? In this case do we actually have access to all 3 variables in a single adjustable club? On the surface, it would certainly appear to be the case, although, perhaps, not in the exact manner that TM advertises it? IIRC, TM advertises the sole plate as what changes the face angle, wouldn't the sole plate change the loft (and conversely, the hosel would change the face angle, not the loft)?




    It is an attempt to have access to face angle with loft, but the loft measurement indicated on the hosel sleeve and the face angle measurement indicated on the sole dial are not what the club measures for either spec when placed in the soled position. And for the sole dial to even have a chance to affect face angle, the head has to sit on its sole. I have all measurements of loft, lie and face angle for each of the 64 different combinations of the hosel sleeve and sole dial if anyone wants to see them but with 64 lines and 3 columns that's too many numbers to post here to flood everyone out. Also, the company says nothing about lie being affected from either the hosel sleeve or the sole dial but it most certainly does change with each different rotation of the hosel sleeve.




    rebby wrote:


    As if I'm not confusing the situation enough already... It seems that Tour Edge Exotics is being even more/less confusing about what their adjustments are doing. I have to ask however, how are they getting a "loft" adjustment while still disclosing what's going on w/the face angle?






    I have not had one of these Tour Edge drivers to measure but a quick inspection shows that it uses a rotational hosel sleeve just like all the others. And the ONLY way ANY of these hosel sleeves can be made is to have the bore at an angle to the outside plane of the sleeve so that upon rotation to different positions, the shaft is angled differently into the head and with relation to the sole plane. There is no other possible way that a hosel sleeve can be engineered. Therefore there just is no way that ANY adjustable hosel driver can change both loft and face angle when the head is soled. And if the head is held at a 0 face position, obviously that locks face angle always at 0, so that orientation of the head won't allow the loft and face angle to change together with each hosel adjustment.
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