Is Etiquette taught anymore?

I am beginning to wonder if the instructors of today wouldn't be a little better off taking a little less time teaching a 2 minute pre shot routine and teach a little etiquette. I remember the very first lesson I got before I got to touch a club I was told a long list of things like; here is the proper place to stand when others are hitting, when someone is hitting and your in sight of them stay still, try to be reasonably quiet, etc.

It seems to me less of this is known or practiced by golfers these days. I've played in lots of tournaments where it's unreal how little course manners some have. Blasting music, making big practice swings on the tee box right behind other players while they're teeing off, walking up close to the hole while others are chipping or putting, etc.

Now I am not trying to sound like that guy and I don't like the stuffy old guy who hears a whisper or something and gets mad but it seems like fewer today are conscious of their actions on the course of even really care.

I make an effort to never be behind the hole or too close to them when others are hitting, Try to stay still and reasonably quiet when they are hitting but move quickly to my ball and be ready to hit while they are in their getting ready for their shot. It isn't really that hard in my opinion.

Am I the only one that notices this?

What? God forbid you suggest that someone in today's age might be able to improve upon the way they go about things. Good chance they'll get hurt emotionally and need to retreat to their safe space. You should probably be a little more sensitive to "their" needs you crusty old dude.

@miket_81 when do you want to tee it up??!! I think we'll get along great.

Short answer: no. I don’t think etiquette is taught anymore, and that applies to more than just the golf course. We have become a society that has raised people to expect everything without a second thought or guess. With the “me me me” mentality out there, is there really ever a wonder as to why people don’t display proper etiquette on or off the course? And I’m not just ragging on the younger generation, as I’ve seen my fair share of 30 year olds and above displaying abhorrent behavior (especially when alcohol is involved).

Yes I think it is. Because I teach it. Sure hope most long term golfers do when they are are out with a new player.

I have found newer golfers actually really appreciate learning the finer points of how to conduct themselves on the course as they are always a bit nervous that they are doing something wrong given the many minor points of good etiquette.

For instance I recall explaining not walking in someone’s putting line to a new golfer. It was like light bulb went off for him as he finally understood why people walk so weird to their ball when on the green. He thought we we were doing some weird ritual.

> @1s1k said:

> @miket_81 when do you want to tee it up??!! I think we'll get along great.

Anytime, I do as well.

2BGood I am glad to see there are some teaching it still.

I think it also like others mentioned society is just a lot less self aware than it used to be. You'll see people completely unaware of their surroundings at a stop sign texting while people wait on them to go and things like that.

I know when I play before I make any action whether it be take off my glove, start my cart, take off walking or open a beer I always take a look around to make sure my actions don't negatively affect anyone else. I am not saying I don't accidentally do something like take off when someone is on the other side of a tree or something that I can't see but it's very rare. I can't imagine what is going through some peoples heads where this isn't automatic.

You almost have to wonder if they don't know that what they do might affect others or just really don't care.

I’ve been around a long time and I’ve seen many things.

I can tell you this. Golfing etiquette has been in a nosedive since 1918-1920. It’s only gotten worse since then.

Don’t fool yourself that it was great in the 1950s or after. It can’t hold a candle to the glory days.

The First Tee camps still teach etiquette. Where to stand. All that stuff. But that’s for kids.

Adults who take up the game have zero clue and zero training. Most, I would guess, get invited to a company, or charity, scramble, have fun, and decide to give golf a try more often. They learn their etiquette from observing others on the course. And, as you’ve observed, MOST folks don’t have etiquette. The blind leading the blind, so to speak.

Better players that grew up in the game seek out better players and usually they play early to get ahead of the unwashed and their Bluetooth blasting 5-hour rounds.

Unless you grew up in the game and/or had a mentor to show you the ropes on etiquette, most won’t figure it out without being told.

I think a lot of it you learn by doing. Even where to stand; yes you're taught out of line of sight but it seems then every person has their own preference where other people are when they shoot.

I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

Agreed.

Yesterday I played on a reciprocal at a traditional players club (no cell phones, no hats in the grill room, etc.) We teed off at 11 am with the only other group that morning having gone off about 45 minutes earlier. It was a foursome of men in their 60s and older. (Interestingly, none appeared to be members or they were newly minted as they asked several times as to where holes were and they’d asked me directions in the clubhouse earlier.)

As best as we could tell, they didn’t fix any ball marks. My playing partner and I fixed multiple fresh ball marks on most holes.

Relevant to this thread, we didn’t complain about it nor did we bemoan the poor manners of these gentlemen. Instead we simply scouted the greens for ball marks, fixed said ball marks, enjoyed each other’s company, and took pleasure in the day.

It is not and it is unfortunate.

Yes, it is taught today. My wife took a series of group lessons and they spent a lot of time on etiquette.

The problem is many beginners don't take lessons.

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

I don't think age has anything to do with etiquette.

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

I think etiquette is in direct relation to how you are as a person.

To answer the OP's question at some private clubs golf etiquette is fostered and taught but generally elsewhere "NO". Manners can make up for etiquette training but outside of parochial schools, those are seldom taught today due to the lack of parenting. Least that's the case in the states I frequent.

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

>

> I don't think age has anything to do with etiquette.

> @Warrior42111 said:

> > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

>

> I think etiquette is in direct relation to how you are as a person.

Agreed. I was out this week after some rain in the area and the course had very few people on it. I teed off ahead of some young men and their, I presume, coach. So, behind me were 4 young guys carrying their bag and one middle aged guy in a golf cart giving them pointers and tips and whatnot. I was a single. I get to the 14th tee and this group is on the green. They must has skipped around. I was a bit perturbed they teed off on 15 instead of waiting for me to go ahead of them. I mean, that's just rude to jump in front of someone and slow them down. Due to the emptiness of the course, I just jumped to an open hole. If a guy thinks he knows enough to coach people, he should know enough to not jump in front of people.

> @LeoLeo99 said:

>

> Agreed. I was out this week after some rain in the area and the course had very few people on it. I teed off ahead of some young men and their, I presume, coach. So, behind me were 4 young guys carrying their bag and one middle aged guy in a golf cart giving them pointers and tips and whatnot. I was a single. I get to the 14th tee and this group is on the green. They must has skipped around. I was a bit perturbed they teed off on 15 instead of waiting for me to go ahead of them. I mean, that's just rude to jump in front of someone and slow them down. Due to the emptiness of the course, I just jumped to an open hole. If a guy thinks he knows enough to coach people, he should know enough to not jump in front of people.

Not doubting your experience but I must say the high school golf team that pretty much has the run of our course (in fairness, quite a few of the kids' families are members) ought to be role models for the rest of us tubby, middle-aged guys out there with us. I mean, they actually fix divots and ball marks and rake bunkers (imagine that!) and also go out of their way to wave any singles through or to stay out of the way of other groups.

Somewhere or another, they had some very positive coaching effects. Whether from the guy who coaches their team, their parents, their teaching pros, someone. Which is the only way stuff like this ever gets taught. It has to be learned from someone the young player looks up to and it has to be someone who is actually courteous and thoughtful in his own right.

I used to teach college courses on beginner and intermediate golf and always made a point to cover some etiquette basics. It really takes people saying something or guiding them during an actual round when they do something that’s not ok. I always had older brothers to do that.

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @LeoLeo99 said:

> >

> > Agreed. I was out this week after some rain in the area and the course had very few people on it. I teed off ahead of some young men and their, I presume, coach. So, behind me were 4 young guys carrying their bag and one middle aged guy in a golf cart giving them pointers and tips and whatnot. I was a single. I get to the 14th tee and this group is on the green. They must has skipped around. I was a bit perturbed they teed off on 15 instead of waiting for me to go ahead of them. I mean, that's just rude to jump in front of someone and slow them down. Due to the emptiness of the course, I just jumped to an open hole. If a guy thinks he knows enough to coach people, he should know enough to not jump in front of people.

>

> Not doubting your experience but I must say the high school golf team that pretty much has the run of our course (in fairness, quite a few of the kids' families are members) ought to be role models for the rest of us tubby, middle-aged guys out there with us. I mean, they actually fix divots and ball marks and rake bunkers (imagine that!) and also go out of their way to wave any singles through or to stay out of the way of other groups.

>

> Somewhere or another, they had some very positive coaching effects. Whether from the guy who coaches their team, their parents, their teaching pros, someone. Which is the only way stuff like this ever gets taught. It has to be learned from someone the young player looks up to and it has to be someone who is actually courteous and thoughtful in his own right.

The course my golf league plays was host to USGA youth qualifier a few weeks ago. The course was closed all day and we went out the first group after the tournament. I told the course management when we finished that the youths took good care of the course. The bunkers were raked and there were far less ball marks on the greens than typical. Although, I did hear about some blatant cheating.

> @Warrior42111 said:

> > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

>

> I think etiquette is in direct relation to how you are as a person.

With some people I’m sure it is. Those people who don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves. But I really believe the epidemic of poor etiquette is because people aren’t taught. This is going to get me flamed, but I believe it’s still true. It’s the “Tiger growing the game” effect. Along with the kids he brought to the game, he also brought a mass of adults, who mostly thought golf was a game for the old “fuddie-duddies”. This crew who normally would have been playing slo-pitch softball instread, (I can say that since I played ?) took to the course. And brought along the game type atmosphere, without knowing any of the basics of etiquette. They went out and bought clubs, bought beer, rented a cart and cranked the music. And off they go.......

I've been playing for about 50 years, and nobody taught me any etiquette except be quiet, and stand still while someone else is hitting. Everything else, I learned through experience.

I tech etiquette every time the opportunity presents itself. My wife is playing now, and I teach her the proper etiquette in whatever situation every time we are on the course. I think it needs to be taught more than it is.

> @bigred90gt said:

> I tech etiquette every time the opportunity presents itself. My wife is playing now, and I teach her the proper etiquette in whatever situation every time we are on the course. I think it needs to be taught more than it is.

I had a hard time getting my wife onto the golf course just as a spectator because she was afraid she'd violate an etiquette protocol. She did great. After a few holes she fully understood where to stand and what to do. It's not difficult if you want to learn.

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > @Warrior42111 said:

> > > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > > I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

> >

> > I think etiquette is in direct relation to how you are as a person.

>

> With some people I’m sure it is. Those people who don’t give a **** about anyone but themselves. But I really believe the epidemic of poor etiquette is because people aren’t taught. This is going to get me flamed, but I believe it’s still true. It’s the “Tiger growing the game” effect. Along with the kids he brought to the game, he also brought a mass of adults, who mostly thought golf was a game for the old “fuddie-duddies”. This crew who normally would have been playing slo-pitch softball instread, (I can say that since I played ?) took to the course. And brought along the game type atmosphere, without knowing any of the basics of etiquette. They went out and bought clubs, bought beer, rented a cart and cranked the music. And off they go.......

>

I agree and I play soft pitch too so I get it. I was more leaning towards; if I am doing someone wrong and someone politely corrects me, I will take that as learning on the fly, ad will incorporate it. If someone does the same and ignores it I guarantee that they're a selfish person in real life.

> @caniac6 said:

> I've been playing for about 50 years, and nobody taught me any etiquette except be quiet, and stand still while someone else is hitting. Everything else, I learned through experience.

Those are the two primary things I see lots of folks deficient at...

@"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > @Warrior42111 said:

> > > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > > I see more poor etiquette from middle aged guys than young folks.

> >

> > I think etiquette is in direct relation to how you are as a person.

>

> With some people I’m sure it is. Those people who don’t give a **** about anyone but themselves. But I really believe the epidemic of poor etiquette is because people aren’t taught. This is going to get me flamed, but I believe it’s still true. It’s the “Tiger growing the game” effect. Along with the kids he brought to the game, he also brought a mass of adults, who mostly thought golf was a game for the old “fuddie-duddies”. This crew who normally would have been playing slo-pitch softball instread, (I can say that since I played ?) took to the course. And brought along the game type atmosphere, without knowing any of the basics of etiquette. They went out and bought clubs, bought beer, rented a cart and cranked the music. And off they go.......

>

I agree but I call it The ESPNification of golf. It made everyone a bunch of money for a while, but good lord.

I didn’t fully realize how fortunate I was at the time, but I was a caddy as a youngster, and learned everything about golf from that. Well, except how to shoot a decent score.

My observations are that players who learned the game as kids or even better, grew up caddying, typically have an innate sense of etiquette.

I’ve seen more ridiculous behavior from guys who took up golf in their mid 20s or after. I get that these groups may not have had much instruction at all and certainly weren’t schooled by a caddy master or assistant pro, but I don’t accept this as an excuse.

You don’t have to know every little nuance. I do not care one bit if you don’t know not to walk on my “through line” on a 30 foot putt! It only requires a small sense of situational awareness to do the basics - be ready to play your shot, and leave the course slightly better than you found it. If more players just had the sense to do that..........

My introduction to golf was by working as a country club caddie as a teenager. For several years I ended up caddying for the same foursome pretty much every weekend as we got along well, and they were pretty laid back. They were not good golfers - probably three 90s shooters and an older one who struggled to break 100 - but they had textbook perfect etiquette. I learned pretty much everything I know about golf etiquette from caddying for and observing those guys. I was fortunate to have had that experience that most did not have. I do try to remind myself of that when I get paired with someone who is utterly clueless in terms of etiquette.