Do I open my mouth and complain to the GM about slow play?

Brought out guests yesterday (good friends). Beautiful day. We were the first tee time after the Thursday Seniors group who are fit in starting at Hole 15 @ 9:00 am (7 groups, not all foursomes), playing a par 3,5,3,4 (15-18). Many have HC flags (allowing them to drive right to the green).

We were off 1 @ 10:30 and probably teed off @ 10:35.

From hole 2 on we waited varying degrees of time every hole. Were we way behind Time Par? No, but the course really should be 3:45 not 4:15 as only one water hazard and have to hit it really bad to be losing balls (heck we had searches too as one guest was wonky off the tee). Thankfully done after 14 and at least the last four holes were at the proper POP.

Yes the POP bothered my guests and wondering whether I should say something to the GM. Guest fees are expensive and if they were clients, I'd be upset.

When you become GM you can change your time par. Otherwise it sounds like the groups in front of you were on time.

Hmm...part of me says "yes", but the other part says that it's a Thursday Seniors group that it appears you had knowledge about it...with the potential impact to pace of play issue. In my mind, there are times when a course or club will have events or regular weekly outings that may impact the "normal" pace of play. To expect a faster POP when playing directly during those events is like the dude who goes out as a single on a weeknight right after leagues start and grumbles about not being able to play thru.

My gut says this Seniors group may not have the ability to play much faster than a 4 or 4.25 hr round and they were slotted at a day and time when it would be less impactful to other members who are conscientious about being timely.

So if you complain...what do you want the result to be? Do you want to GM to go tell these seniors to play faster or get out of the way (I assume they pay the similar fees as other members)? Do you want him to move the Senior grouping to a different day/time? Do you want him to refund your guest fees or have the proshop proactively tell members when setting a tee time that another regular outing might impact the POP? I would recommend you think about what you feel is a fair solution before you complain...if it's pushing this group of seniors to play faster when they were already slotted to a weekday morning time slot...I don't think you'll get a lot of support. If it's consideration that the proshop advise you of potential impacts to POP when you call to set a time...I think that's fair.

Nope.

The expected pace of play at this course is 4:15 and you played faster than that. There is nothing to complain about when it comes to that round.

In a separate, but related issue, you do not like what the expected pace of play is at the course. This is something you can look into and encourage change about. Is it a public course? If so- talk to the GM. Is it a private course? If so, look in to the governance system that make the decision about the pace. At many clubs this is a committee or a board etc. then go talk to the relevant person and learn more what things are the way they are. You may find out you are alone in not like the pace, or you may find you are one of many members with concerns. You may even find a way to volunteer to help make these decisions.

Many years back I chaired a committee to change pace of play at our club as I thought it was too slow. It was not easy, we did open house session with about 400 members and surveyed everyone to understand what members really wanted. I had angry members calling me on all side o the issues and some really interesting conversations.

In the end we went to graduated pace program (the earlier you tee'd off the faster you needed to play) with a punch clock to monitor times. It has worked great as fast players have a time to play and slower players know not to tee off early in the morning.

By the way the fast time is max of 3:30. We are a walking course and almost everyone agrees that is fast enough with the exception of a foursome who "plays"(golf is secondary it is more about a brisk walk) in 2:45 who we always send out first to never be seen again.

I'm sure the GM hears complaints all the time. He can deal with it, just part of the job. Complain if you feel you must.

But there's no chance at all that complaining will change anything. Once a course published an expected pace of play, you've just got to assume it will take you that long to play unless you're the first group off in the morning. The scenario described is, they sent out a bunch of known slowpokes who none the less managed to play in less than the posted time. That's pretty much the best-case scenario. It's not going to get any better than that.

I guess there's an outside chance that the course might lower the published "time par" from 4:15 to 4:00 or something if enough people complain. But if you and your guests had shown up and playing in 4:00 hours you'd probably still feel frustrated, right?

Did you know you were going out right after the old guys? Do you generally know the old guys? Have you watched the old guys with the flags take 60 seconds to walk from the green to the cart? If you are at a private club the answer to all 3 is probably "yes". You played under time par so really no room to complain. And honestly playing @ 4:15 is really not that slow (certainly not fast but certainly not a GM conversation). I do understand it can be frustrating at time. There have been several occasions when I am in a foursome or even a 5some waiting on every shot sort of muttering under my breath, but then make the turn and realize we just played 9 in 1:55.

> @Skaffa77 said:

> Hmm...part of me says "yes", but the other part says that it's a Thursday Seniors group that it appears you had knowledge about it...with the potential impact to pace of play issue. In my mind, there are times when a course or club will have events or regular weekly outings that may impact the "normal" pace of play. To expect a faster POP when playing directly during those events is like the dude who goes out as a single on a weeknight right after leagues start and grumbles about not being able to play thru.

>

> My gut says this Seniors group may not have the ability to play much faster than a 4 or 4.25 hr round and they were slotted at a day and time when it would be less impactful to other members who are conscientious about being timely.

>

> So if you complain...what do you want the result to be? Do you want to GM to go tell these seniors to play faster or get out of the way (I assume they pay the similar fees as other members)? Do you want him to move the Senior grouping to a different day/time? Do you want him to refund your guest fees or have the proshop proactively tell members when setting a tee time that another regular outing might impact the POP? I would recommend you think about what you feel is a fair solution before you complain...if it's pushing this group of seniors to play faster when they were already slotted to a weekday morning time slot...I don't think you'll get a lot of support. If it's consideration that the proshop advise you of potential impacts to POP when you call to set a time...I think that's fair.

Maybe they make the first time available after the seniors 30 minutes later. Sorry we were teeing off 1:30 after they were to have played 5 holes (15-18 & #1)!!!!! 2 Par 3's, 2 Par 4's & a 5...... and were waiting starting hole 2.

Yes they have blocked tee times, but this was the first time I booked after them and brought guests. Our guest fees are not cheap and one friend was unhappy with the POP.

At my club, unfortunately a 4:15 round is no longer a rarity. 15 years ago that would have been seen as a huge disaster, now it's just life on the weekends during prime season. But there are a couple regular groups known to far exceed that at least some of the time.

So the pro shop does leave a couple tee times blocked out behind the slow groups. Generally no other group is going to be sent out within half an hour of the ones that are likely to be out there 4-1/2 hours.

You know what happens? Almost invariably, the group that is scheduled half an hour behind the slowpokes notices that there's nobody on the tee. So they go ahead and tee off 15 minutes early. Then they catch up to the slow guys in about three holes and spend the rest of the day fuming.

You just can't win. Short of someone telling people they simply can not tie up the course for 4-1/2 hours there's going to be p.o.'d people behind them.

To the OP, it depends on what you perceive as slow play. If it's truly measured as slow play than yes, but do it politely via email. I am not one to complain but if I experience any negative events during golf I will email the GM and head Pro.

Absolutely complain to the GM. Maybe there should be a restriction on when these oldsters could play. Monday evening from 6-8? Old members should not be cluttering up the course while you and your guests are trying to play at some accelerated pace. Sheesh.

As a club member I just figured out what the slow events/groups/people were and avoided those times by getting out well ahead of them or playing well after with enough of a buffer so as not to catch them. The beauty of an online tee sheet with the player's names is that it is easy to avoid the known slowpokes unless they go stealth and walk on without a tee time at the last minute.

> @farmer said:

> Absolutely complain to the GM. Maybe there should be a restriction on when these oldsters could play. Monday evening from 6-8? Old members should not be cluttering up the course while you and your guests are trying to play at some accelerated pace. Sheesh.

Yeah and they should install warning signs at the clubhouse and on every tee stating...

_**"Warning handicapped seniors playing at the course designated pace of play may not keep up with your pace of play"**_

But in all sincerity.. should you have complained... probably not unless you were just trying to show your one friend that you were concerned about his being unhappy. At that point I think it's a ceremonial gesture at best but if it meant something to him, politely expressing concern to the GM isn't going to hurt anything I suppose. (emphasis added on the politely expressing)

> @Under2hours said:

> > @Skaffa77 said:

> > Hmm...part of me says "yes", but the other part says that it's a Thursday Seniors group that it appears you had knowledge about it...with the potential impact to pace of play issue. In my mind, there are times when a course or club will have events or regular weekly outings that may impact the "normal" pace of play. To expect a faster POP when playing directly during those events is like the dude who goes out as a single on a weeknight right after leagues start and grumbles about not being able to play thru.

> >

> > My gut says this Seniors group may not have the ability to play much faster than a 4 or 4.25 hr round and they were slotted at a day and time when it would be less impactful to other members who are conscientious about being timely.

> >

> > So if you complain...what do you want the result to be? Do you want to GM to go tell these seniors to play faster or get out of the way (I assume they pay the similar fees as other members)? Do you want him to move the Senior grouping to a different day/time? Do you want him to refund your guest fees or have the proshop proactively tell members when setting a tee time that another regular outing might impact the POP? I would recommend you think about what you feel is a fair solution before you complain...if it's pushing this group of seniors to play faster when they were already slotted to a weekday morning time slot...I don't think you'll get a lot of support. If it's consideration that the proshop advise you of potential impacts to POP when you call to set a time...I think that's fair.

>

> Maybe they make the first time available after the seniors 30 minutes later. Sorry we were teeing off 1:30 after they were to have played 5 holes (15-18 & #1)!!!!! 2 Par 3's, 2 Par 4's & a 5...... and were waiting starting hole 2.

>

> Yes they have blocked tee times, but this was the first time I booked after them and brought guests. Our guest fees are not cheap and one friend was unhappy with the POP.

Aren’t you covering his fee? He’s got no complaint.

You weren’t? He still has no complaint as a guest, should still just say “thank you”. Don’t ask him back.

You knew what you were getting into when you scheduled it. Perhaps you evidenced a little more anxiety and frustration that affected the guests’ experience?

Led Zeppelin-“Nobody’s Fault But Mine”

> @Under2hours said:

> Brought out guests yesterday (good friends). Beautiful day. We were the first tee time after the Thursday Seniors group who are fit in starting at Hole 15 @ 9:00 am (7 groups (not all foursomes), playing a par 3,5,3,4 (15-18). Many have HC flags (allowing them to drive right to the green).

>

> We were off 1 @ 10:30 and probably teed off @ 10:35.

>

> From hole 2 on we waited varying degrees of time every hole. Were we way behind Time Par? No,

How dare these inconsiderate seniors show up for their EVERY-WEEK THURSDAY game, didn't they know you were bringing friends? In spite of being movement-restricted severely enough to warrant the handicapped flag on the carts, they managed to maintain a pace of play that was consistent with the clubs pace of play policy, since you weren't behind the "time par". What did you really expect, that you would be able to race around the course by yourselves?

If you think the time-par should be shorter, that's something to take up with the management. To me, 4:15 seems fairly reasonable, but I don't know the golf course. But a weekly seniors group deserves a place on the golf course, and to expect them to play a whole lot faster is probably unrealistic.

> @davep043 said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > Brought out guests yesterday (good friends). Beautiful day. We were the first tee time after the Thursday Seniors group who are fit in starting at Hole 15 @ 9:00 am (7 groups (not all foursomes), playing a par 3,5,3,4 (15-18). Many have HC flags (allowing them to drive right to the green).

> >

> > We were off 1 @ 10:30 and probably teed off @ 10:35.

> >

> > From hole 2 on we waited varying degrees of time every hole. Were we way behind Time Par? No,

>

> How dare these inconsiderate seniors show up for their EVERY-WEEK THURSDAY game, didn't they know you were bringing friends? In spite of being movement-restricted severely enough to warrant the handicapped flag on the carts, they managed to maintain a pace of play that was consistent with the clubs pace of play policy, since you weren't behind the "time par". What did you really expect, that you would be able to race around the course by yourselves?

> If you think the time-par should be shorter, that's something to take up with the management. To me, 4:15 seems fairly reasonable, but I don't know the golf course. But a weekly seniors group deserves a place on the golf course, and to expect them to play a whole lot faster is probably unrealistic.

>

>

Yep. Some folks should belong to clubs of which they are the only member.

The bloom is apparently off the proverbial rose for the OP. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1651968/spoiled-by-being-a-member-of-a-golf-club#latest

I don't get it.

We have a couple of weekly groups that are slower than our normal pace (ladies competitive league, but tbh, *nothing* is worse than the elite junior group). They're on the calendar. You just know what you're signing up for if you go out behind them.

> @raynorfan1 said:

> I don't get it.

>

> We have a couple of weekly groups that are slower than our normal pace (ladies competitive league, but tbh, *nothing* is worse than the elite junior group). They're on the calendar. You just know what you're signing up for if you go out behind them.

Yep. At a former club of mine there was a foursome that would play every Saturday at 2pm on a 4.5 hour pace with nobody in front of them, while letting nobody play though. After the first time getting stuck behind them (and skipping a hole to get ahead of them), I just started teeing off at 1:40 instead of 2:20 to get ahead of them. Simple as that. Similarly, if I look at the tee sheet and see that from 11am to noon there are 4 foursomes with guests signed up, I can't expect to tee off at noon and play in 3 hours, so I tee off at 10:45 or whatever.

Interesting responses. Surprised that everyone seems non-plussed by slow play and how it can affect guests/clients and turn a great day to a frustrating one. We finished within POP due to playing the the last 4 holes quicker. The seniors were probably close to 5:00 hours.

Just because they are old, doesn't mean they should be slow as many still are walking.

I won't book near them going forward, but yes affected us and one of the reasons I joined a private club as they do monitor play. The weekend gamblers got a talking to about their 4:30 rounds I was told by one of them.

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @Under2hours said:

> > > Brought out guests yesterday (good friends). Beautiful day. We were the first tee time after the Thursday Seniors group who are fit in starting at Hole 15 @ 9:00 am (7 groups (not all foursomes), playing a par 3,5,3,4 (15-18). Many have HC flags (allowing them to drive right to the green).

> > >

> > > We were off 1 @ 10:30 and probably teed off @ 10:35.

> > >

> > > From hole 2 on we waited varying degrees of time every hole. Were we way behind Time Par? No,

> >

> > How dare these inconsiderate seniors show up for their EVERY-WEEK THURSDAY game, didn't they know you were bringing friends? In spite of being movement-restricted severely enough to warrant the handicapped flag on the carts, they managed to maintain a pace of play that was consistent with the clubs pace of play policy, since you weren't behind the "time par". What did you really expect, that you would be able to race around the course by yourselves?

> > If you think the time-par should be shorter, that's something to take up with the management. To me, 4:15 seems fairly reasonable, but I don't know the golf course. But a weekly seniors group deserves a place on the golf course, and to expect them to play a whole lot faster is probably unrealistic.

> >

> >

> Yep. Some folks should belong to clubs of which they are the only member.

>

> The bloom is apparently off the proverbial rose for the OP. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1651968/spoiled-by-being-a-member-of-a-golf-club#latest

I have not said anything negative about the club or "complained" since I joined. This was the one day we could have a game and needed to be off for some afternoon meetings. Yep was not thrilled and affected my guests.

I too know Men's League is a slow day, thus wouldn't bring guests and also stopped playing as coming up at the end of the day & battling traffic for a 2:20 nine was not worth it.

Enjoy your 5 hour round, we did not.

Besides not piling on the OP, the only thing that should have happened differently is the pro shop should have warned you if 4:15 is really perceived as a slow time. But yes, most private clubs, unless they are ultra-exclusive, are going to have league nights, busy times, and "usual games" that can slow your pace down.

> @Under2hours said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > Brought out guests yesterday (good friends). Beautiful day. We were the first tee time after the Thursday Seniors group who are fit in starting at Hole 15 @ 9:00 am (7 groups (not all foursomes), playing a par 3,5,3,4 (15-18). Many have HC flags (allowing them to drive right to the green).

> > > >

> > > > We were off 1 @ 10:30 and probably teed off @ 10:35.

> > > >

> > > > From hole 2 on we waited varying degrees of time every hole. Were we way behind Time Par? No,

> > >

> > > How dare these inconsiderate seniors show up for their EVERY-WEEK THURSDAY game, didn't they know you were bringing friends? In spite of being movement-restricted severely enough to warrant the handicapped flag on the carts, they managed to maintain a pace of play that was consistent with the clubs pace of play policy, since you weren't behind the "time par". What did you really expect, that you would be able to race around the course by yourselves?

> > > If you think the time-par should be shorter, that's something to take up with the management. To me, 4:15 seems fairly reasonable, but I don't know the golf course. But a weekly seniors group deserves a place on the golf course, and to expect them to play a whole lot faster is probably unrealistic.

> > >

> > >

> > Yep. Some folks should belong to clubs of which they are the only member.

> >

> > The bloom is apparently off the proverbial rose for the OP. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1651968/spoiled-by-being-a-member-of-a-golf-club#latest

>

> I have not said anything negative about the club or "complained" since I joined. This was the one day we could have a game and needed to be off for some afternoon meetings. Yep was not thrilled and affected my guests.

>

> I too know Men's League is a slow day, thus wouldn't bring guests and also stopped playing as coming up at the end of the day & battling traffic for a 2:20 nine was not worth it.

>

> Enjoy your 5 hour round, we did not.

It isn't really fair of you to morph the discussion from an original description of playing faster than "time par" of 4:15 and now categorizing it as a 5-hour round. It makes it hard for us to offer our genuine advice share opinions if you're going to keep changing the particulars of the complaint.

I don't think anyone participating in this thread would be happy with a 5-hour round. I certainly would not. But in my opinion you should only complain to the GM about your actual experience. Not complain about how long someone else took.

So please clarify. How long did it actually take you and your guests to play 18 holes? And what is published pace of play expectation for the course?

If it took you less than the published "time par" to play your round then in my opinion you definitely have little room to complain.

If it really took you 5 hours to finish your round then you would be entirely justified in telling the GM that you're upset and that it made you (and by extension the club) look bad in the eyes of your guests.

The difference in "faster than 4:15" versus "5 hours" is pretty major.

> @Under2hours said:

> Interesting responses. Surprised that everyone seems non-plussed by slow play and how it can affect guests/clients and turn a great day to a frustrating one. We finished within POP due to playing the the last 4 holes quicker. The seniors were probably close to 5:00 hours.

To be clear, I totally understand how much slow play stinks and how it can make for a tough day for guests. But I think the blame is on you for putting your guests in that situation.

> @Under2hours said:

>Just because they are old, doesn't mean they should be slow as many still are walking.

>

> I won't book near them going forward, but yes affected us and one of the reasons I joined a private club as they do monitor play. The weekend gamblers got a talking to about their 4:30 rounds I was told by one of them.

The whole point of a club is that we're all joined together by mutual interests and common goals. Sometimes you need to make concessions to certain constituencies so that they can get maximum benefit out of the club too. In your case, I would dramatically prefer to have all these slow groups bunched together and playing at a single time during the week than to sprinkle them among all the tee times and cause chronic slowness.

As I've said before, our club is maniacal about pace of play. But we carve times out for slower groups and also a set of times for faster groups; one caveat however is that guests are not allowed out anywhere near these two groups. The ladies comp goes out Thursday morning at 9:00am, and the first guest time is not until 1:00.

> @Under2hours said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > Brought out guests yesterday (good friends). Beautiful day. We were the first tee time after the Thursday Seniors group who are fit in starting at Hole 15 @ 9:00 am (7 groups (not all foursomes), playing a par 3,5,3,4 (15-18). Many have HC flags (allowing them to drive right to the green).

> > > >

> > > > We were off 1 @ 10:30 and probably teed off @ 10:35.

> > > >

> > > > From hole 2 on we waited varying degrees of time every hole. Were we way behind Time Par? No,

> > >

> > > How dare these inconsiderate seniors show up for their EVERY-WEEK THURSDAY game, didn't they know you were bringing friends? In spite of being movement-restricted severely enough to warrant the handicapped flag on the carts, they managed to maintain a pace of play that was consistent with the clubs pace of play policy, since you weren't behind the "time par". What did you really expect, that you would be able to race around the course by yourselves?

> > > If you think the time-par should be shorter, that's something to take up with the management. To me, 4:15 seems fairly reasonable, but I don't know the golf course. But a weekly seniors group deserves a place on the golf course, and to expect them to play a whole lot faster is probably unrealistic.

> > >

> > >

> > Yep. Some folks should belong to clubs of which they are the only member.

> >

> > The bloom is apparently off the proverbial rose for the OP. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1651968/spoiled-by-being-a-member-of-a-golf-club#latest

>

> I have not said anything negative about the club or "complained" since I joined. This was the one day we could have a game and needed to be off for some afternoon meetings. Yep was not thrilled and affected my guests.

>

> I too know Men's League is a slow day, thus wouldn't bring guests and also stopped playing as coming up at the end of the day & battling traffic for a 2:20 nine was not worth it.

>

> Enjoy your 5 hour round, we did not.

If your bad attitude affects your guests you are a poor host.

Next time you let the club know you guys need special treatment so you can get to those high powered afternoon meetings, lol.

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > Brought out guests yesterday (good friends). Beautiful day. We were the first tee time after the Thursday Seniors group who are fit in starting at Hole 15 @ 9:00 am (7 groups (not all foursomes), playing a par 3,5,3,4 (15-18). Many have HC flags (allowing them to drive right to the green).

> > > > >

> > > > > We were off 1 @ 10:30 and probably teed off @ 10:35.

> > > > >

> > > > > From hole 2 on we waited varying degrees of time every hole. Were we way behind Time Par? No,

> > > >

> > > > How dare these inconsiderate seniors show up for their EVERY-WEEK THURSDAY game, didn't they know you were bringing friends? In spite of being movement-restricted severely enough to warrant the handicapped flag on the carts, they managed to maintain a pace of play that was consistent with the clubs pace of play policy, since you weren't behind the "time par". What did you really expect, that you would be able to race around the course by yourselves?

> > > > If you think the time-par should be shorter, that's something to take up with the management. To me, 4:15 seems fairly reasonable, but I don't know the golf course. But a weekly seniors group deserves a place on the golf course, and to expect them to play a whole lot faster is probably unrealistic.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > Yep. Some folks should belong to clubs of which they are the only member.

> > >

> > > The bloom is apparently off the proverbial rose for the OP. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1651968/spoiled-by-being-a-member-of-a-golf-club#latest

> >

> > I have not said anything negative about the club or "complained" since I joined. This was the one day we could have a game and needed to be off for some afternoon meetings. Yep was not thrilled and affected my guests.

> >

> > I too know Men's League is a slow day, thus wouldn't bring guests and also stopped playing as coming up at the end of the day & battling traffic for a 2:20 nine was not worth it.

> >

> > Enjoy your 5 hour round, we did not.

>

> It isn't really fair of you to morph the discussion from an original description of playing faster than "time par" of 4:15 and now categorizing it as a 5-hour round. It makes it hard for us to offer our genuine advice share opinions if you're going to keep changing the particulars of the complaint.

>

> I don't think anyone participating in this thread would be happy with a 5-hour round. I certainly would not. But in my opinion you should only complain to the GM about your actual experience. Not complain about how long someone else took.

>

> So please clarify. How long did it actually take you and your guests to play 18 holes? And what is published pace of play expectation for the course?

>

> If it took you less than the published "time par" to play your round then in my opinion you definitely have little room to complain.

>

> If it really took you 5 hours to finish your round then you would be entirely justified in telling the GM that you're upset and that it made you (and by extension the club) look bad in the eyes of your guests.

>

> The difference in "faster than 4:15" versus "5 hours" is pretty major.

From Holes 2-14 playing behind them it was a 5 Hour POP. The fact we finished in time par means little. We played 14 very slow holes. Was not fun. As a member I could walk off, but had guests out and they weren't thrilled. And again was not all foursomes (threesome was ahead of us) and only 7 groups teeing off 15-18.

Lesson learned....... Don't play Men's day, don't play behind Seniors or Juniors Tuesday & Thursday Afternoon, Friday 11:00-2:00, Comp days.......

So you played 13 holes at 5:00 pace and still finished within time par of 4:15. Given that 5:00 pace implies playing at a pace of 16.66 minutes per hole (300/18) you would have then played the 13 holes behind the senior groups in a little over 216 minutes. That leaves roughly 255 - 216 = 39 minutes playing the 5 holes without being delayed. This implies that your group of 3 or 4 would have played all 18 holes in a little less than 2:20. Very impressive.

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> So you played 13 holes at 5:00 pace and still finished within time par of 4:15. Given that 5:00 pace implies playing at a pace of 16.66 minutes per hole (300/18) you would have then played the 13 holes behind the senior groups in a little over 216 minutes. That leaves roughly 255 - 216 = 39 minutes playing the 5 holes without being delayed. This implies that your group of 3 or 4 would have played all 18 holes in a little less than 2:20. Very impressive.

Hey, look at his handle, that's what he expects.

So it wasn’t a 5 hour round, sounds like 4:15 or less as suggested in the OP not the 5 you later claimed it was.

"Just because they are old doesn't mean they should be slow, as many are still walking." One of the most tone deaf posts I've read. Under2 must be under 40.

> @farmer said:

> "Just because they are old doesn't mean they should be slow, as many are still walking." One of the most tone deaf posts I've read. Under2 must be under 40.

I think he’s under 2.