Salaries at your course

I am in Canada so it may be different in the US.

My course sends out a financial report each year. I added up the salaries and it comes to almost $1 million which seems very high to me.

This includes:

2 pros

General manager

director of membership

director of food service

chef

kitchen/ 19th hole staff

Wait staff

accountant

grounds staff, superintendent, assistant super, 4 workers. clubhouse worker

Anyone know if this is the norm?

The tee sheet is full every day but the GM is still on a membership drive.....

There isn’t a “typical” that you will find, but at a mid level private club $1m in payroll sounds efficient to me. If you are in a market of any size at all and not a value level club this is reasonable. A million bucks is just 25 people averaging $40,000 a year. I know some are part time and some are full time, but your club’s employees shouldn’t be poor.

Pro. Was £29k a year until he left....Head Greenkeeper. £34k. Other greens staff including apprentices about £100k. Secretary. Too much.

Yea I can’t stand when the people who make the club what it is. The long hours during tournaments, junior clinics etc. this is coming from a lowly assistant that clearly makes too much haha

You get what you pay for.

Sounds pretty cheap.

Head pro, general manager and super are going to make north of 100K. If you have a associate pro, they could make 50k Accountant, chef and directors 75K? Rest would make minimum wage.

> @wrigley said:

> Sounds pretty cheap.

>

> Head pro, general manager and super are going to make north of 100K. If you have a associate pro, they could make 50k Accountant, chef and directors 75K? Rest would make minimum wage.

Where do you live? That is high for the high end clubs around here

> @mallrat said:

> > @wrigley said:

> > Sounds pretty cheap.

> >

> > Head pro, general manager and super are going to make north of 100K. If you have a associate pro, they could make 50k Accountant, chef and directors 75K? Rest would make minimum wage.

>

> Where do you live? That is high for the high end clubs around here

Forgot to mention our season is only 6 months but to expect employees to find another full time job every year isnt realistic.

They do however receive UI/dole for the months they dont work I think it is %70 of their salary.

> @elwhippy said:

> Pro. Was £29k a year until he left....

Maybe that's why he left.

That's low.

As some one said that is a staff of 25 (small) averaging $40K a year.

I bet at least a handful of your members make $500K - $1M a year, by themselves.

Most (member owned) golf clubs in the United States are organized as 501©7 non-profit corporations, and they file Form 990 with the IRS that details the salaries for club management.

A lot depends on location, but my sense is that $1M on salaries is pretty low.

Never really added it all up but does get pricey. We have a general manager, head golf pro, three assistant golf pros, head chef, 2 assistant chefs, wait staff (about 8-10 part time), locker room attendant, membership director, events coordinator, two other office staff, receptionist, course superintendent, assistant superintendent, numerous groundskeepers, tennis pro, assistant tennis pro, head life guard (seasonal), three assistant lifeguards. Probably a few others working in the background I can't recall.

Typically your head greenskeeper is going to make the most and at top courses you could see 250k and up in just that position. Seattle was hiring a head of maintenance for their 3 courses and the pay was around 200k this spring. Next you will have your Gm and they will make a bunch. If you have a big restaurant that does real business and events then you will have to pay a chef a good salary. The head pro usually make a good portion from lessons so I can't imagine that the club will kick in too much other than some big names. Event planners can make really good money but it it usually based on a percentage of what they bring in so they usualy deserve at least what they make.

With all this being said, you don't want to skimp on the course maintenance staff and the materials. I'm sure you can think of a few courses in the area with terrible greens that you don't want to play. They usually either didn't pay the staff enough or give them enough resources to do their job. sand, mowers, seed, pesticides, herbicides, fertalizers, all cost money.

From Vancouver BC point of view so it is likely skewed by our high cost of living.

I just looked at our clubs previous year's annual report and noted our total wages, salaries and benefits were CAD$4.4M on total revenues of CAD$7.5M.

There may be an error in my reading of the annual report but it kind of makes sense as I know we spend over CAD$1M on labour for our golf course maintenance alone.

We do operate 12 months of the year though.

So it payroll for your club is CAD$1M it is pretty low even if you only operate for 6 months.

Im not familiar with the norms of canada but Another thing to keep in mind is if the number youre looking at is just the base salaries of employees or if this is all on costs (taxes, other benefits etc)

I may be wrong but I thought he said that was just for salaried employees and not hourly which would put the number more in line to me.

Wages and related costs are typically around 30% of revenue I would assume. Maybe higher in some markets depending on the level of service required, tipping policies, etc.

> @bradski said:

> Typically your head greenskeeper is going to make the most and at top courses you could see 250k and up in just that position. Seattle was hiring a head of maintenance for their 3 courses and the pay was around 200k this spring. Next you will have your Gm and they will make a bunch. If you have a big restaurant that does real business and events then you will have to pay a chef a good salary. The head pro usually make a good portion from lessons so I can't imagine that the club will kick in too much other than some big names. Event planners can make really good money but it it usually based on a percentage of what they bring in so they usualy deserve at least what they make.

>

> With all this being said, you don't want to skimp on the course maintenance staff and the materials. I'm sure you can think of a few courses in the area with terrible greens that you don't want to play. They usually either didn't pay the staff enough or give them enough resources to do their job. sand, mowers, seed, pesticides, herbicides, fertalizers, all cost money.

250k is on the high end, granted there are quite a few I know that do north of that, but they're directors of grounds at Oakmont, Pine Valley, ANGC, Grand Cypress. You're average super is making about 93k, and a certified superintendent average is a little over 111k. I took the survey and read the results, I imagine they can be found on the GCSAA page.

Talking specifically about the position in Seattle golf overseeing those three courses, you're underpaid (you're working three golf courses), the only thing that is good about it (in my opinion) is the fact that it is a city job and most likely has a pretty nice pension plan when you retire like most other city/county sup jobs that I have seen.

> @MaddMaxx said:

> I am in Canada so it may be different in the US.

> My course sends out a financial report each year. I added up the salaries and it comes to almost $1 million which seems very high to me.

> This includes:

> 2 pros

> General manager

> director of membership

> director of food service

> chef

> kitchen/ 19th hole staff

> Wait staff

> accountant

> grounds staff, superintendent, assistant super, 4 workers. clubhouse worker

>

> Anyone know if this is the norm?

> The tee sheet is full every day but the GM is still on a membership drive.....

What type of club are you? Best in the world? One of the best in Canada? Or a local family owned CC?

In Jupiter I know we were well over that just on salaried employees, just as most Jupiter private area clubs were. I don't know anything about running the whole clubs budget (F&B, ProShop, etc) but the general rule that I was taught as an assistant was that whatever your budget is, allocate half to labor right off the bat. My maintenance budget was just north of 2.2 yearly. So using that general rule, 1.1 was tied up in wages/benefits etc in our department alone and that was pretty accurate and held true for the most part, was it exact every year? No, but it was damn close at the end of the year one way or another.

A guy making 100k does not cost you 100K in most regards. Factor in all the additional payroll taxes, SS (or the Canadian equivalent), 401k, insurance, etc., etc.

So while mathematically you can that is 1 mil is 25 people averaging 40k, that is likely not 40k in salary alone.

> @smashdn said:

> A guy making 100k does not cost you 100K in most regards. Factor in all the additional payroll taxes, SS (or the Canadian equivalent), 401k, insurance, etc., etc.

>

> So while mathematically you can that is 1 mil is 25 people averaging 40k, that is likely not 40k in salary alone.

Yep. depending on the comp package and benefits I always figure it's salary plus approx. 15% when doing budgets etc form my company.

> @BNGL said:

> > @bradski said:

> > Typically your head greenskeeper is going to make the most and at top courses you could see 250k and up in just that position. Seattle was hiring a head of maintenance for their 3 courses and the pay was around 200k this spring. Next you will have your Gm and they will make a bunch. If you have a big restaurant that does real business and events then you will have to pay a chef a good salary. The head pro usually make a good portion from lessons so I can't imagine that the club will kick in too much other than some big names. Event planners can make really good money but it it usually based on a percentage of what they bring in so they usualy deserve at least what they make.

> >

> > With all this being said, you don't want to skimp on the course maintenance staff and the materials. I'm sure you can think of a few courses in the area with terrible greens that you don't want to play. They usually either didn't pay the staff enough or give them enough resources to do their job. sand, mowers, seed, pesticides, herbicides, fertalizers, all cost money.

>

> 250k is on the high end, granted there are quite a few I know that do north of that, but they're directors of grounds at Oakmont, Pine Valley, ANGC, Grand Cypress. You're average super is making about 93k, and a certified superintendent average is a little over 111k. I took the survey and read the results, I imagine they can be found on the GCSAA page.

>

> Talking specifically about the position in Seattle golf overseeing those three courses, you're underpaid (you're working three golf courses), the only thing that is good about it (in my opinion) is the fact that it is a city job and most likely has a pretty nice pension plan when you retire like most other city/county sup jobs that I have seen.

I know of one over $200 and same, Director of Agronomy at a 36 hole course that runs a landscape department that is VERY profitable.

That Seattle job NO ONE wanted. Well guys just after money did but there were other qualifications that turned a LOT of people away. Including dealing with city councils and city council meetings.

> @mallrat said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @bradski said:

> > > Typically your head greenskeeper is going to make the most and at top courses you could see 250k and up in just that position. Seattle was hiring a head of maintenance for their 3 courses and the pay was around 200k this spring. Next you will have your Gm and they will make a bunch. If you have a big restaurant that does real business and events then you will have to pay a chef a good salary. The head pro usually make a good portion from lessons so I can't imagine that the club will kick in too much other than some big names. Event planners can make really good money but it it usually based on a percentage of what they bring in so they usualy deserve at least what they make.

> > >

> > > With all this being said, you don't want to skimp on the course maintenance staff and the materials. I'm sure you can think of a few courses in the area with terrible greens that you don't want to play. They usually either didn't pay the staff enough or give them enough resources to do their job. sand, mowers, seed, pesticides, herbicides, fertalizers, all cost money.

> >

> > 250k is on the high end, granted there are quite a few I know that do north of that, but they're directors of grounds at Oakmont, Pine Valley, ANGC, Grand Cypress. You're average super is making about 93k, and a certified superintendent average is a little over 111k. I took the survey and read the results, I imagine they can be found on the GCSAA page.

> >

> > Talking specifically about the position in Seattle golf overseeing those three courses, you're underpaid (you're working three golf courses), the only thing that is good about it (in my opinion) is the fact that it is a city job and most likely has a pretty nice pension plan when you retire like most other city/county sup jobs that I have seen.

>

> I know of one over $200 and same, Director of Agronomy at a 36 hole course that runs a landscape department that is VERY profitable.

>

> That Seattle job NO ONE wanted. Well guys just after money did but there were other qualifications that turned a LOT of people away. Including dealing with city councils and city council meetings.

Fantastic point about there...one thing I always stressed to assistants and interns is don’t take a job for the title or money. Evaluate the position both within the industry and it’s fit for you.

> @mallrat said:

> > @wrigley said:

> > Sounds pretty cheap.

> >

> > Head pro, general manager and super are going to make north of 100K. If you have a associate pro, they could make 50k Accountant, chef and directors 75K? Rest would make minimum wage.

>

> Where do you live? That is high for the high end clubs around here

I'm in Canada, Toronto. Our dollar is only worth .75 compared to the US dollar. I have family in the business

> @mallrat said:

> > @wrigley said:

> > Sounds pretty cheap.

> >

> > Head pro, general manager and super are going to make north of 100K. If you have a associate pro, they could make 50k Accountant, chef and directors 75K? Rest would make minimum wage.

>

> Where do you live? That is high for the high end clubs around here

That's pretty much in line with most decent country clubs here in the NW.

You can check guidestar to view club's form 990s if you'd like to get real specific (non profits only).

I would think the $ allocation would be very different or from what I know of in Oregon (only a few courses). Most Sup’s are $70 - $120 but the vast majority are under $100. GM’s would be over the $200k mark. Now head pro’s I don’t have a clue but would think they would be in line with supers.

The most valued member in most high end clubs is the Superintendent for they are in charge of the golf course. At one of my clubs he is making twice what the director of golf is making (although he makes probably 1/2 or so of that from the pro shop/lessons). $250k a year is no unheard of at all, especially for a club with multiple courses. BTW they are worth it IMO.

> @"Schley " said:

> The most valued member in most high end clubs is the Superintendent for they are in charge of the golf course. At one of my clubs he is making twice what the director of golf is making (although he makes probably 1/2 or so of that from the pro shop/lessons). $250k a year is no unheard of at all, especially for a club with multiple courses. BTW they are worth it IMO.

F***ing right they are!

https://www.gcsaa.org/career/compensation-report

This is a link to the fast facts from our GCSAA report for the past year.