Touching another man’s clubs

[bladehunter]

> @RickKimbrell said:

> > @"b.helts" said:

> > > @RobertBaron said:

> > > Am I way off base for getting pissed enough to start a thread on a golf forum?

> >

> > Yep

>

> BINGO...YEP is the correct answer. I guess I don't understand why some folks think the "range" is a sacred place where you don't talk, kid around, try to be friendly. GEEZ...folks need to lighten up. Life is way way too short to get upset of someone checking out your clubs. Now, if he was checking out his BUTT...well maybe. :)

 

So we agree on personal space. We just draw the line at different places ? Lol.

[bulls9999]

I think it's a breach of etiquette for the club pro to start a conversation with you while you are in the middle of a swing (unless he feels he can do whatever he want because of his title). Just like driving by people on a tee box about to swing, you can stop and wait, or be discourteous and drive on through while they are about to tee off.

> @RobertBaron said:

> I’m at the range today and there’s a new pro at the course doing his rounds trying to drum up business. I see him walking down the range toward my stall, but I’m not really paying that much attention.

>

> As I’m standing over my ball, readying my next swing, I see him out of the corner of my eye standing by my bag actually pulling one of my irons out to take a look. I use the opportunity to simulate pressure and take my swing. I turn around and he’s still eyeing my clubs in his hands, asking me questions about them.

>

> Anyway, I’m not a very confrontational person so all I really did was give him some side eye and curt small talk. But on the inside I was pretty ripped. I mean to me this is a pretty massive breach of etiquette and completely out of line. Especially for a club pro who should know better! You just don’t touch a strangers’ clubs!

>

> Right? Am I way off base for getting pissed enough to start a thread on a golf forum?

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @RickKimbrell said:

> > @jholz said:

> > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> >

> > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> >

> > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> >

> > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> >

> > Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door.

> >

> >

>

> Really? The guy was on the range. If the clubs were sitting outside at bag drop it would have been different. With the OP standing there hitting balls, do you seriously think someone is going to come up, shoulder the bag and take off running? Hardly!!!

 

I have to admit. The scene of this in my head made me smile. A lot. I’m nearly 40 and surely lost a few steps now. But in my youth could have caught 99% of the humans on earth carrying a bag in 4-5 steps . That’s a fun thought. Seeing bag picked up , guy runs ..... one .... two .... three..... boom he’s bulldogged from behind and face in the pavement. Nothing a relay anchor man loves more than a rabbit to chase. Lol

[Greenie]

I'm picky and ocd about my clubs. I would have a problem with someone grabbing a club out of my bag and looking at it. I wouldn't have a problem if someone asked to check out one of my clubs but in that case I would take it out of my bag for them and hand it to them.

 

I like to look at clubs and talk about clubs myself but I would never touch another person's club. I would ask questions about a person's club and if the offered to show them to me fine. Other than that I may peek at them sitting in their bag but I'm not touching them.

 

A single paired with our threesome one time. He was a nice enough guy. We had played several holes and on this one hole I had teed off first, walked over to the cart, put my driver back in my bag and walked back over to watch the other guys tee off. The new guy was hanging at his bag at the time. My two buddies teed off and I looked behind me to tell the guy he was up. He had pulled out my driver, took the head cover off and was swinging it. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was checking out my driver. Then he said you don't mind if I try it do you? I was polite and told him I don't ask to hit other people's clubs and I don't let other people hit mine . I about flipped out. My buddies had this look on their faces because they knew how anal I am about my clubs. I took the driver from him and kindly said I don't like anyone touching my clubs.

[LeoLeo99]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > @jholz said:

> > > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> > >

> > > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> > >

> > > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> > >

> > > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > >

> > > Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Really? The guy was on the range. If the clubs were sitting outside at bag drop it would have been different. With the OP standing there hitting balls, do you seriously think someone is going to come up, shoulder the bag and take off running? Hardly!!!

>

> I have to admit. The scene of this in my head made me smile. A lot. I’m nearly 40 and surely lost a few steps now. But in my youth could have caught 99% of the humans on earth carrying a bag in 4-5 steps . That’s a fun thought. Seeing bag picked up , guy runs ..... one .... two .... three..... boom he’s bulldogged from behind and face in the pavement. Nothing a relay anchor man loves more than a rabbit to chase. Lol

LOL

 

 

[BIG STU]

> @Mitchell said:

> Not like going to stab someone in eye over it, yet would promptly correct the behavior in a straightforward, courteous manner. The Raymond Flloyd or Clint Eastwood in Hang 'Em High stare usually gets point across without having to say anything.? Response is commensurate with if action was from ignorance, naivety or self importance/disrespect. Courtesy and respect for personal space and property of others seems unfortunately to be on the decline.

 

Thank you. For me it is a certain Raymond Floyd dead eye stare combined with my snarl. You and Blade were taught as I was never touch anyone else's stuff without asking permission first. Most folks today are not raised with any scruples at all ( you and Blade are from the South so you guys know what scruples are) I absolutely will not touch another person's club no matter how long I have not known them without asking first. To quote John Wayne I conduct myself like that and I expect the same of others. BTW Mitch there is a certain set of Macs with Apex shafts back in the front line bag after my flirting with the KZGs for a while

[BIG STU]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > @jholz said:

> > > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> > >

> > > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> > >

> > > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> > >

> > > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > >

> > > Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Really? The guy was on the range. If the clubs were sitting outside at bag drop it would have been different. With the OP standing there hitting balls, do you seriously think someone is going to come up, shoulder the bag and take off running? Hardly!!!

>

> I have to admit. The scene of this in my head made me smile. A lot. I’m nearly 40 and surely lost a few steps now. But in my youth could have caught 99% of the humans on earth carrying a bag in 4-5 steps . That’s a fun thought. Seeing bag picked up , guy runs ..... one .... two .... three..... boom he’s bulldogged from behind and face in the pavement. Nothing a relay anchor man loves more than a rabbit to chase. Lol

 

ROTFLMAO---- Grasshopper here is a little hint from a older fatter guy---- As you get older put them closer to you where you do not have to jump too quick or too far. Last week I played in a company related scramble with the typical pre round speeches and BS etc. I never put my clubs on the cart until I was ready to pull out for the round. True I do not know why anyone would want to steal a set of old Mac blades rusty Cleveland wedges and rusty Scotty putter in a ratty Jones bag but you never know. I stay low key with the old nondescript Jones bag with mismatched headcovers etc. Draws almost no attention and I like it that way. On the other hand when I gamed my Titleist mini staff it did draw more attention. You could see someone checking my stuff out especially the tourist golfers with a look of shock when the pre described clubs were in there. I have absolutely no problem if someone has flashy stuff but I have came to like flying under the radar so to speak

[BIG STU]

> @IcemanYVR said:

> Don’t touch my clubs, I don’t **** your wife. Moral; they’re both sacred.

 

I had a similar sign on the dashboard of my race car--- You would not believe the people that were not race car drivers that wanted to 'take your stuff out for a spin on the track------ Mine stated " Please do not ask to drive my race car and I will not ask to **** your wife or Daughter----- Actually had some idiot complain to the track officials about it---- Seems his wife was in the pits and saw it inside my car on the dash and complained about it and it offended her. The track officials promptly told them to pound sand--- I confronted them later and told them if me or my car offended them to stay out of my pit area.

[BIG STU]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"Matt J" said:

> > I generally follow said rule. I wouldn't pull a stranger's club out of his bag, mostly out of fear that I would knock the bag over or somehow damage a club, and I appreciate that some people are peculiar about their belongings. That being said, if this same thing happened to me I wouldn't care and I'm currently playing Miuras. Even if you extrapolate worst case scenario and he did accidentally knock my bag over and all the clubs bounced on the concrete I don't think I'd be bothered. All stuff is transient and a deep rooted connection to physical possessions is unhealthy. Your mental health is not my concern but it should be yours. As is the answer to most things on this forum, either let it go or say something. Your "stink eye" is passive aggressive and you started this thread out of shame that you didn't tell the guy to put your club back in your bag. That would be a healthy reaction. Either don't let it bother you or simply say, that is my possession and you didn't ask to handle it, please put it back in my bag. The problem with that is that you have to know it as your truth to pull it off i.e. say it like you mean it, that you expect your request to be heeded and a sincere apology and if met with derision or mock sincerity you are willing to call that out as well and have genuine conflict.

>

> Now we are getting somewhere. The stink eye vs the F off bud that we want to give.

>

> The issue there with your advise and/or diagnosis is that you forget the way society works now.

>

> You can’t very well throw out verbal threats or commands anymore. Why ? What if that person calls that bluff ? You can’t plant him on his backside without felony assault changes anymore. 40 years ago it was a simple assault charge and a small fine. And People remained more in check.

>

> So no. You cannot risk escalating the situation to a level where you can lose more than it’s worth. You have to just give the eye and take it. That’s todays world. And the inconsiderate among us prosper off of it.

 

That is where it becomes fun being old and not giving two hoots------ If they take me to jail then they have to provide my health care and they know it too. I try to get along with anyone and everyone but do not push me.

[bladehunter]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"Matt J" said:

> > > I generally follow said rule. I wouldn't pull a stranger's club out of his bag, mostly out of fear that I would knock the bag over or somehow damage a club, and I appreciate that some people are peculiar about their belongings. That being said, if this same thing happened to me I wouldn't care and I'm currently playing Miuras. Even if you extrapolate worst case scenario and he did accidentally knock my bag over and all the clubs bounced on the concrete I don't think I'd be bothered. All stuff is transient and a deep rooted connection to physical possessions is unhealthy. Your mental health is not my concern but it should be yours. As is the answer to most things on this forum, either let it go or say something. Your "stink eye" is passive aggressive and you started this thread out of shame that you didn't tell the guy to put your club back in your bag. That would be a healthy reaction. Either don't let it bother you or simply say, that is my possession and you didn't ask to handle it, please put it back in my bag. The problem with that is that you have to know it as your truth to pull it off i.e. say it like you mean it, that you expect your request to be heeded and a sincere apology and if met with derision or mock sincerity you are willing to call that out as well and have genuine conflict.

> >

> > Now we are getting somewhere. The stink eye vs the F off bud that we want to give.

> >

> > The issue there with your advise and/or diagnosis is that you forget the way society works now.

> >

> > You can’t very well throw out verbal threats or commands anymore. Why ? What if that person calls that bluff ? You can’t plant him on his backside without felony assault changes anymore. 40 years ago it was a simple assault charge and a small fine. And People remained more in check.

> >

> > So no. You cannot risk escalating the situation to a level where you can lose more than it’s worth. You have to just give the eye and take it. That’s todays world. And the inconsiderate among us prosper off of it.

>

> That is where it becomes fun being old and not giving two hoots------ If they take me to jail then they have to provide my health care and they know it too. I try to get along with anyone and everyone but do not push me.

 

Exactly. People don’t think in realistic terms ?

[MtlJeff]

Again, whether or not what the guy did was worthy of furious vengeance.... doesn't really matter, if you want to touch someone else's stuff, just ask politely.

 

Stop putting the onus on the OP and start putting on the other guy. He should've asked, even if touching clubs at a range isn't deserving of the death penalty

[Matt J]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"Matt J" said:

> > > I generally follow said rule. I wouldn't pull a stranger's club out of his bag, mostly out of fear that I would knock the bag over or somehow damage a club, and I appreciate that some people are peculiar about their belongings. That being said, if this same thing happened to me I wouldn't care and I'm currently playing Miuras. Even if you extrapolate worst case scenario and he did accidentally knock my bag over and all the clubs bounced on the concrete I don't think I'd be bothered. All stuff is transient and a deep rooted connection to physical possessions is unhealthy. Your mental health is not my concern but it should be yours. As is the answer to most things on this forum, either let it go or say something. Your "stink eye" is passive aggressive and you started this thread out of shame that you didn't tell the guy to put your club back in your bag. That would be a healthy reaction. Either don't let it bother you or simply say, that is my possession and you didn't ask to handle it, please put it back in my bag. The problem with that is that you have to know it as your truth to pull it off i.e. say it like you mean it, that you expect your request to be heeded and a sincere apology and if met with derision or mock sincerity you are willing to call that out as well and have genuine conflict.

> >

> > Now we are getting somewhere. The stink eye vs the F off bud that we want to give.

> >

> > The issue there with your advise and/or diagnosis is that you forget the way society works now.

> >

> > You can’t very well throw out verbal threats or commands anymore. Why ? What if that person calls that bluff ? You can’t plant him on his backside without felony assault changes anymore. 40 years ago it was a simple assault charge and a small fine. And People remained more in check.

> >

> > So no. You cannot risk escalating the situation to a level where you can lose more than it’s worth. You have to just give the eye and take it. That’s todays world. And the inconsiderate among us prosper off of it.

>

> That is where it becomes fun being old and not giving two hoots------ If they take me to jail then they have to provide my health care and they know it too. I try to get along with anyone and everyone but do not push me.

 

I agree. I think you have to choose your words and actions wisely, but I recently got into a bad situation and it ended in physical violence. The legal repercussions were not that severe. The law is certainly going to hurt you if you are the bully, but if you are standing up for yourself and there are witnesses then you typically will be fine. To each their own but I'm not going to back down over fear of legal consequences if I'm coming from an honest and righteous place. I can afford a good attorney and it cost me less than feeling like a victim and taking a bunch of trash from a stranger with no respect for himself or me.

[BIG STU]

> @"Matt J" said:

> > @"BIG STU" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @"Matt J" said:

> > > > I generally follow said rule. I wouldn't pull a stranger's club out of his bag, mostly out of fear that I would knock the bag over or somehow damage a club, and I appreciate that some people are peculiar about their belongings. That being said, if this same thing happened to me I wouldn't care and I'm currently playing Miuras. Even if you extrapolate worst case scenario and he did accidentally knock my bag over and all the clubs bounced on the concrete I don't think I'd be bothered. All stuff is transient and a deep rooted connection to physical possessions is unhealthy. Your mental health is not my concern but it should be yours. As is the answer to most things on this forum, either let it go or say something. Your "stink eye" is passive aggressive and you started this thread out of shame that you didn't tell the guy to put your club back in your bag. That would be a healthy reaction. Either don't let it bother you or simply say, that is my possession and you didn't ask to handle it, please put it back in my bag. The problem with that is that you have to know it as your truth to pull it off i.e. say it like you mean it, that you expect your request to be heeded and a sincere apology and if met with derision or mock sincerity you are willing to call that out as well and have genuine conflict.

> > >

> > > Now we are getting somewhere. The stink eye vs the F off bud that we want to give.

> > >

> > > The issue there with your advise and/or diagnosis is that you forget the way society works now.

> > >

> > > You can’t very well throw out verbal threats or commands anymore. Why ? What if that person calls that bluff ? You can’t plant him on his backside without felony assault changes anymore. 40 years ago it was a simple assault charge and a small fine. And People remained more in check.

> > >

> > > So no. You cannot risk escalating the situation to a level where you can lose more than it’s worth. You have to just give the eye and take it. That’s todays world. And the inconsiderate among us prosper off of it.

> >

> > That is where it becomes fun being old and not giving two hoots------ If they take me to jail then they have to provide my health care and they know it too. I try to get along with anyone and everyone but do not push me.

>

> I agree. I think you have to choose your words and actions wisely, but I recently got into a bad situation and it ended in physical violence. The legal repercussions were not that severe. The law is certainly going to hurt you if you are the bully, but if you are standing up for yourself and there are witnesses then you typically will be fine. To each their own but I'm not going to back down over fear of legal consequences if I'm coming from an honest and righteous place. I can afford a good attorney and it cost me less than feeling like a victim and taking a bunch of trash from a stranger with no respect for himself or me.

 

In SC we have what is called provocation laws ie: poking someone the bird or like for example calling them a SOB and it has been updated to include racial slurs too. Like I said I am a pretty docile person I get along with everyone--- but on the other hand do not push me because the North Charlotte Redneck will come out in me. Like you I do not fear the legal consequences either---- When I get mad it is ugly and I do not back down from anyone or anything

[RollingRocks]

> @jholz said:

> For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

>

> Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

>

> Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

>

> For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> **

> ****Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door. **

> ****

> Wrong. Theft is ALWAYS the fault of the perpetrator.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @"Matt J" said:

> > > @"BIG STU" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @"Matt J" said:

> > > > > I generally follow said rule. I wouldn't pull a stranger's club out of his bag, mostly out of fear that I would knock the bag over or somehow damage a club, and I appreciate that some people are peculiar about their belongings. That being said, if this same thing happened to me I wouldn't care and I'm currently playing Miuras. Even if you extrapolate worst case scenario and he did accidentally knock my bag over and all the clubs bounced on the concrete I don't think I'd be bothered. All stuff is transient and a deep rooted connection to physical possessions is unhealthy. Your mental health is not my concern but it should be yours. As is the answer to most things on this forum, either let it go or say something. Your "stink eye" is passive aggressive and you started this thread out of shame that you didn't tell the guy to put your club back in your bag. That would be a healthy reaction. Either don't let it bother you or simply say, that is my possession and you didn't ask to handle it, please put it back in my bag. The problem with that is that you have to know it as your truth to pull it off i.e. say it like you mean it, that you expect your request to be heeded and a sincere apology and if met with derision or mock sincerity you are willing to call that out as well and have genuine conflict.

> > > >

> > > > Now we are getting somewhere. The stink eye vs the F off bud that we want to give.

> > > >

> > > > The issue there with your advise and/or diagnosis is that you forget the way society works now.

> > > >

> > > > You can’t very well throw out verbal threats or commands anymore. Why ? What if that person calls that bluff ? You can’t plant him on his backside without felony assault changes anymore. 40 years ago it was a simple assault charge and a small fine. And People remained more in check.

> > > >

> > > > So no. You cannot risk escalating the situation to a level where you can lose more than it’s worth. You have to just give the eye and take it. That’s todays world. And the inconsiderate among us prosper off of it.

> > >

> > > That is where it becomes fun being old and not giving two hoots------ If they take me to jail then they have to provide my health care and they know it too. I try to get along with anyone and everyone but do not push me.

> >

> > I agree. I think you have to choose your words and actions wisely, but I recently got into a bad situation and it ended in physical violence. The legal repercussions were not that severe. The law is certainly going to hurt you if you are the bully, but if you are standing up for yourself and there are witnesses then you typically will be fine. To each their own but I'm not going to back down over fear of legal consequences if I'm coming from an honest and righteous place. I can afford a good attorney and it cost me less than feeling like a victim and taking a bunch of trash from a stranger with no respect for himself or me.

>

> In SC we have what is called provocation laws ie: poking someone the bird or like for example calling them a SOB and it has been updated to include racial slurs too. Like I said I am a pretty docile person I get along with everyone--- but on the other hand do not push me because the North Charlotte Redneck will come out in me. Like you I do not fear the legal consequences either---- When I get mad it is ugly and I do not back down from anyone or anything

 

Lol. They just don’t know do they Stu. We Carolina boys have been mopping up trouble for several hundred years now.

[BIG STU]

> @RollingRocks said:

> > @jholz said:

> > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> >

> > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> >

> > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> >

> > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > **

> > ****Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door. **

> > ****

> > Wrong. Theft is ALWAYS the fault of the perpetrator.

>

>

 

Agree---- My Old Man always told me all a lock did was keep a honest man from going wrong---- A thief is going to steal

[jholz]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @RollingRocks said:

> > > @jholz said:

> > > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> > >

> > > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> > >

> > > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> > >

> > > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > > **

> > > ****Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door. **

> > > ****

> > > Wrong. Theft is ALWAYS the fault of the perpetrator.

> >

> >

>

> Agree---- My Old Man always told me all a lock did was keep a honest man from going wrong---- A thief is going to steal

 

I'm not trying to suggest that thieves bear no responsibility for taking things. I am suggesting, however, that property owners bear a responsibility for protecting their own stuff. If you don't take reasonable precautions to protect something and someone steals it, that's on you.

 

Additionally, I find the whole: "I'll just leave my stuff lying around, and if someone tries to steal it, I will beat them up" approach rather problematic as well. Several people have suggested this approach, and it seems really manly I admit, but also a path to assault charges.

 

Finally, this idea of the world being separated "honest men" and "thieves" doesn't really mesh with reality. When does the thief become a thief? Were they born that way? Or were they once honest people who were tempted by someone who left the front door to their house unlocked? Does this suggest that any precautions - such as locks - are ultimately futile? Is the only recourse physical violence - as you suggest?

[bladehunter]

> @jholz said:

> > @"BIG STU" said:

> > > @RollingRocks said:

> > > > @jholz said:

> > > > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> > > >

> > > > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> > > >

> > > > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> > > >

> > > > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > > > **

> > > > ****Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door. **

> > > > ****

> > > > Wrong. Theft is ALWAYS the fault of the perpetrator.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Agree---- My Old Man always told me all a lock did was keep a honest man from going wrong---- A thief is going to steal

>

> I'm not trying to suggest that thieves bear no responsibility for taking things. I am suggesting, however, that property owners bear a responsibility for protecting their own stuff. If you don't take reasonable precautions to protect something and someone steals it, that's on you.

>

> Additionally, I find the whole: "I'll just leave my stuff lying around, and if someone tries to steal it, I will beat them up" approach rather problematic as well. Several people have suggested this approach, and it seems really manly I admit, but also a path to assault charges.

>

> Finally, this idea of the world being separated "honest men" and "thieves" doesn't really mesh with reality. When does the thief become a thief? Were they born that way? Or were they once honest people who were tempted by someone who left the front door to their house unlocked? Does this suggest that any precautions - such as locks - are ultimately futile? Is the only recourse physical violence - as you suggest?

 

To answer the last part.

 

I’ve found that it’s an inevitable ending for some folks. I’ve also found it to be very unpleasant as confrontation is never what you want. But I also find it hard or impossible to run from. Silence being the best compromise I can muster at times. But some people only hear things in that language. After all. It is the language we’re hardwired to understand. Which is why I pointed out that the pro walking the line grabbing clubs unannounced was him marking territory. Nothing more or less.

 

Who does that in a dog pack ? 99% of the time a beta male. I’ve studied them for years. Trained and raised dogs that worked jobs , not for profit but for fun. First exercise with a new litter is to assert your dominance and place as pack leader , taking food mid meal etc , then returning it after submission is achieved.

 

Later in adolescence you’ll see the alpha/s vs the rest of the litters. They will lay around alone , not really worrying about territory , why ? They already own it. The others work themselves to death walking the fence peeing on everything they can. Each covering the last ones scent. People do the same , figuratively. The guy who walks around pulling clubs , invading personal space , and generally harassing others with nose to nose conversation etc , even if very passively , is trying to mark territory , or gain attention of the ones he perceived as the dominant guy around.

[jholz]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @jholz said:

> > > @"BIG STU" said:

> > > > @RollingRocks said:

> > > > > @jholz said:

> > > > > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> > > > >

> > > > > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> > > > >

> > > > > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > > > > **

> > > > > ****Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door. **

> > > > > ****

> > > > > Wrong. Theft is ALWAYS the fault of the perpetrator.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Agree---- My Old Man always told me all a lock did was keep a honest man from going wrong---- A thief is going to steal

> >

> > I'm not trying to suggest that thieves bear no responsibility for taking things. I am suggesting, however, that property owners bear a responsibility for protecting their own stuff. If you don't take reasonable precautions to protect something and someone steals it, that's on you.

> >

> > Additionally, I find the whole: "I'll just leave my stuff lying around, and if someone tries to steal it, I will beat them up" approach rather problematic as well. Several people have suggested this approach, and it seems really manly I admit, but also a path to assault charges.

> >

> > Finally, this idea of the world being separated "honest men" and "thieves" doesn't really mesh with reality. When does the thief become a thief? Were they born that way? Or were they once honest people who were tempted by someone who left the front door to their house unlocked? Does this suggest that any precautions - such as locks - are ultimately futile? Is the only recourse physical violence - as you suggest?

>

> To answer the last part.

>

> I’ve found that it’s an inevitable ending for some folks. I’ve also found it to be very unpleasant as confrontation is never what you want. But I also find it hard or impossible to run from. Silence being the best compromise I can muster at times. But some people only hear things in that language. After all. It is the language we’re hardwired to understand. Which is why I pointed out that the pro walking the line grabbing clubs unannounced was him marking territory. Nothing more or less.

>

> Who does that in a dog pack ? 99% of the time a beta male. I’ve studied them for years. Trained and raised dogs that worked jobs , not for profit but for fun. First exercise with a new litter is to assert your dominance and place as pack leader , taking food mid meal etc , then returning it after submission is achieved.

>

> Later in adolescence you’ll see the alpha/s vs the rest of the litters. They will lay around alone , not really worrying about territory , why ? They already own it. The others work themselves to death walking the fence peeing on everything they can. Each covering the last ones scent. People do the same , figuratively. The guy who walks around pulling clubs , invading personal space , and generally harassing others with nose to nose conversation etc , even if very passively , is trying to mark territory , or gain attention of the ones

 

Man, this is a tough one. We obviously both agree that the club pro's behavior is/was inappropriate. I can even concede some points concerning your description of his behavior. There was some insecurity/feigned confidence motivating his actions. Yet, I have a really hard time equating human behavior with that of dogs.

 

In fact, these kinds of reductions have a tendency to lead us to very bleak intellectual positions, places where violence becomes not merely justified, but the preferred response.

 

That is a difficult intellectual position for me to occupy.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @jholz said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @jholz said:

> > > > @"BIG STU" said:

> > > > > @RollingRocks said:

> > > > > > @jholz said:

> > > > > > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > ****Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door. **

> > > > > > ****

> > > > > > Wrong. Theft is ALWAYS the fault of the perpetrator.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Agree---- My Old Man always told me all a lock did was keep a honest man from going wrong---- A thief is going to steal

> > >

> > > I'm not trying to suggest that thieves bear no responsibility for taking things. I am suggesting, however, that property owners bear a responsibility for protecting their own stuff. If you don't take reasonable precautions to protect something and someone steals it, that's on you.

> > >

> > > Additionally, I find the whole: "I'll just leave my stuff lying around, and if someone tries to steal it, I will beat them up" approach rather problematic as well. Several people have suggested this approach, and it seems really manly I admit, but also a path to assault charges.

> > >

> > > Finally, this idea of the world being separated "honest men" and "thieves" doesn't really mesh with reality. When does the thief become a thief? Were they born that way? Or were they once honest people who were tempted by someone who left the front door to their house unlocked? Does this suggest that any precautions - such as locks - are ultimately futile? Is the only recourse physical violence - as you suggest?

> >

> > To answer the last part.

> >

> > I’ve found that it’s an inevitable ending for some folks. I’ve also found it to be very unpleasant as confrontation is never what you want. But I also find it hard or impossible to run from. Silence being the best compromise I can muster at times. But some people only hear things in that language. After all. It is the language we’re hardwired to understand. Which is why I pointed out that the pro walking the line grabbing clubs unannounced was him marking territory. Nothing more or less.

> >

> > Who does that in a dog pack ? 99% of the time a beta male. I’ve studied them for years. Trained and raised dogs that worked jobs , not for profit but for fun. First exercise with a new litter is to assert your dominance and place as pack leader , taking food mid meal etc , then returning it after submission is achieved.

> >

> > Later in adolescence you’ll see the alpha/s vs the rest of the litters. They will lay around alone , not really worrying about territory , why ? They already own it. The others work themselves to death walking the fence peeing on everything they can. Each covering the last ones scent. People do the same , figuratively. The guy who walks around pulling clubs , invading personal space , and generally harassing others with nose to nose conversation etc , even if very passively , is trying to mark territory , or gain attention of the ones

>

> Man, this is a tough one. We obviously both agree that the club pro's behavior is/was inappropriate. I can even concede some points concerning your description of his behavior. There was some insecurity/feigned confidence motivating his actions. Yet, I have a really hard time equating human behavior with that of dogs.

>

> In fact, these kinds of reductions have a tendency to lead us to very bleak intellectual positions, places where violence becomes not merely justified, but the preferred response.

>

> That is a difficult intellectual position for me to occupy.

>

>

Yep. I agree. And I don’t really mean 100% literally in a “ both are just animals “ kind of way. I certainly believe in the human brain and ability to think above evolutionary reflexes. The truth is a sort of mix of both I think. I just meant that it plays a part of everyday life and some people just refuse to believe it.

 

[VNutz]

I'm pretty cool and calm about stuff like this, maybe it's because I'm such a club ho at heart. While it surely would annoy me or at the least catch my attention, if they show any signs that they understand and value clubs as I do and are just trying to drum up conversation I'd give it a pass. Some would say that means not touching them in the first place, but most people mean no harm by doing things like that, and I know nobody's going to get away with my clubs.

[MtlJeff]

We keep putting the onus on all the wrong people in this thread. This is the internet in 2019. Contrarians rule

 

We can't just say it's wrong to do bad stuff.

[Golfer4Life]

Touching my golf junk without permission is not allowed, lol.....

[DivinDave]

well stated and I couldn't agree more.

 

> @jholz said:

> One should always ask before touching another person's property. These are the kinds of things we teach kids in pre-school. You know why? Because touching people's stuff without their permission leads to fights.

>

> I suppose that we could begin teaching kids that it is wrong to get upset when people touch your stuff without permission. That could be done. That seems to be what the contrarians in this particular discussion would advocate. I would consider that a wrong headed approach, however.

>

> I think you are completely justified in being a bit put out by the behavior this guy exhibited, not just the fact that he touched your clubs. If dude wants to be friendly and drum up business, he is going about it the wrong way.

 

 

[2putttom]

what is this thread about again ?

[mshills]

It is definitely interesting what sparks a debate and what direction the debates go on this forum! :D

 

Back to the OP, the club pro showed incredibly bad manners! Now, I would not blow up at him, but even someone like me who is not really equipment-obsessed, I cannot think of a scenario where it is anything other than rude to walk up and get in someone’s bag. Particularly someone you don’t know. C’mon man, what are you thinking?

[MountainKing]

I have to many other important things to worry about beyond somebody touching my clubs, like reading some of the remarks and responding to this thread.

[Noles]

People should ask first but not all belongings are the same. If he had gone into the front of your cart and picked up your cell phone, then I would be like WTF? However, golfers are interested in golf clubs and someone checking out your irons and then putting it back seems fine to me.

[hoselpalooza]

another way to look at this is it's against the rules to distract the play of another player and (in certain circumstances) it's against the rules to touch another player's equipment during a round.

 

now obviously the range isn't a round but i think it's generally accepted amongst most golfers that the standards of player conduct should still apply in the practice area. specifically, the new pro, whom it appears was unacquainted with you, should have known better than to potentially distract you by fiddling with your equipment while you were hitting. as others have already mentioned, the courteous thing to do would have been to ask.

[stugotz]

Pro? I doubt it. Poor form. He should have waited for you to finish your shot and then just asked you about the clubs. He should then ask if he could hit a few. I think if he had done that you would have felt better. Pro? I would say “pro” wanna be. Most pros would then come over with a free bucket. Then again, if the range is a dog track extension, you should not expect more! Lol