Touching another man’s clubs

[ChaosTheory]

I can see where it could be off-putting, but it's a first world problem for sure. Now being on the wrong side of 60, I realize that life is short, and chill out. Living too tightly wrapped is not good for you.

[RobertBaron]

> @Snowman9000 said:

> I can see where it could be off-putting, but it's a first world problem for sure.

 

TBF most issues on a golf forum are going to be first world problems

[Mitchell]

Not like going to stab someone in eye over it, yet would promptly correct the behavior in a straightforward, courteous manner. The Raymond Flloyd or Clint Eastwood in Hang 'Em High stare usually gets point across without having to say anything.? Response is commensurate with if action was from ignorance, naivety or self importance/disrespect. Courtesy and respect for personal space and property of others seems unfortunately to be on the decline.

[ArtMBgolf]

I feel the guy being your course pro, it's less of an issue than a stranger.

It would be far worse if they swing it, ground it on cement or a hit a ball.

It would be interesting to know what the clubs are.

[bigred90gt]

> @jholz said:

> For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

>

> Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

>

> Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

>

> For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

>

> Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door.

>

>

 

 

I’m assuming you missed the part in the first paragraph where this random guy was the new pro at the club? Do you honestly believe the new pro at the club is going to steal an iron from his bag, or bash his driver on the sidewalk?

 

And yes, I’ve had stuff stolen. Had vehicles broken into. Neither of which is applicable to the club pro on the driving range.

 

When I was younger, I might have been put off by it, but not to the point of the OP. The older I get, the less I care about getting worked up over silly things, and this is a silly thing to get worked up over in the context of the situation.

 

[HatsForBats]

> @jholz said:

......

>

Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff?

**Yes to both**

 

Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

**I have noticed that the person touching the stuff may not realize it's value and may be less careful than I would expect them to be. In the case of a golf club it is just not that valuable to get too upset about but valuable enough that I will take it back from the person if I don't think they are being careful enough**

 

Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

**Having been at a driving or golf course somewhere in the 5,000+ times neighborhood I have never witnessed anyone stealing clubs while others were watching or someone bashing someone else's club on the sidewalk. If I started worrying so much about such small things that just might, possibly, conceivably happen then I might as well build a panic room and stay inside it for the rest of my days**

 

For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff?

**Golf Clubs? Not anything to get too worked up about unless someone is exhibiting erratic behavior with them**

 

Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it?

**I am not expecting them to. If I think they will then I would react differently**

 

Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness?

**I am assuming someone is not going to try to steal a lone club while talking me up. In fact the moment they pull a club out of the bag and start looking it over I would be less suspicious of their intent. If it is a golf Pro the thought wouldn't even cross my mind**

 

It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

**If I started worrying so much about such small things that just might, possibly, conceivably happen then I might as well build a panic room and stay inside it for the rest of my days**

 

[jholz]

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @jholz said:

> > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> >

> > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> >

> > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> >

> > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> >

> > Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door.

> >

> >

>

>

> I’m assuming you missed the part in the first paragraph where this random guy was the new pro at the club? Do you honestly believe the new pro at the club is going to steal an iron from his bag, or bash his driver on the sidewalk?

>

> And yes, I’ve had stuff stolen. Had vehicles broken into. Neither of which is applicable to the club pro on the driving range.

>

> When I was younger, I might have been put off by it, but not to the point of the OP. The older I get, the less I care about getting worked up over silly things, and this is a silly thing to get worked up over in the context of the situation.

>

 

Nah, I caught that part. He's the **_new_** club pro, right?

 

And yes, you do correctly bring up a point of potential disagreement - this issue of familiarity or "how well do we have to know someone before we are cool with them touching our stuff?" Within this topic, you are also correct to point out that I am making an assumption based on the OP's use of the term "new." Based upon the OP's use of this term, I am making an assumption that the OP has had either "no or limited contact" with the individual in question. This assumption could be true or false and I have based it upon limited evidence. You are correct. Nonetheless...

 

Based upon my assumption that the OP has had "no or limited contact" with the new club pro, I took my analysis of the situation a few steps further.

 

For me, I tend to define people with whom I have had "no or limited contact" as "virtual strangers." Under that definition, my extensive experience with people and human nature have given me ample evidence to support the idea that I need to be "reasonably" suspicious of anyone that I define under those terms - regardless of position, what I have heard about them, etc, etc, etc. Until I have direct experience with a person, I am going to be "reasonably" suspicious. As one gets to know people better, that level of suspicion will change obviously.

 

Now, when I say something like that, I have to catch myself for a minute - because we get into the rather sticky subject of how we define the term "reasonable suspicion." You might get the sense that I walk around with a pistol in my golf bag or something. That isn't the case. I am "**_reasonable_**."

 

So, for this particular incident, I would define "reasonable suspicion" as a level similar to lending your lighter to some random stranger in a bar. They might be fine folks, but that doesn't mean they won't slip your lighter into their pocket and walk away with it. And this isn't because they are thieves, it's because they are human. People do that kind of crap. Therefore, if I lend a lighter to a guy in a bar, and I care about getting it back, I am going to watch that person like a hawk. Experience has taught me this.

 

Now, you might get the impression from the above analogy that I am suggesting that it is reasonable for me to assume that the new club pro in the OP's story was going to slip his $500 driver into his pocket and walk away. This, of course, is not the case. He didn't steal anything, didn't hurt anything. I am sure that he had no intention of doing so.

 

Yet, because the OP is like me - and seems to have grown up around other human beings - he's going to get a bit distracted if someone is eyeing up his stuff. For us, this is a natural and anticipated response to this kind of behavior.

 

What the new club pro did - or actually failed to do - was to understand something about how humans operate, and to take that into account when he approached someone new. As a result, he offended the OP. Like the OP, I think the new club pro is clueless.

 

Here's why. Growing up surrounded by humans and coming through a system of human education, I think it reasonable (once again) to assume that the new club pro has been told - on countless occasions - "don't touch stuff that doesn't belong to you" or "ask before you touch something that doesn't belong to you." The people who came up with advice like that know how humans operate and how they feel. They take that into account when contemplating actions, and they act accordingly. When they find out what works, they try to pass that advice along to others in the form of rules, which we call etiquette. Having rules like this not only helps to prevent conflict, our adherence to those rules is also interpreted by other human beings as a sign of respect. In other words, if you have any respect for me as a human being, you won't come up and touch my stuff without asking, because you can reasonably anticipate that it will disturb or bother me.

 

So, through a lack of caring or cluelessness, the new club pro totally disrespected the OP. Cut and dry. From this, I am able to assert with confidence that OP's new club pro = clueless douchebag. Until he showed me something different, that's the opinion I would hold.

 

You are more than welcome to disagree with me, but you can't say that my position on this issue hasn't been carefully thought out.

[HatsForBats]

To summarize... Get off my lawn?

[jholz]

> @HatsForBats said:

> To summarize... Get off my lawn?

 

Are you able to explain how you arrived at this interpretation of my post? I'm all ears. I'd love to hear it.

[jholz]

> @jholz said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > To summarize... Get off my lawn?

>

> Are you able to explain how you arrived at this interpretation of my post? I'm all ears. I'd love to hear it.

 

I guess not. Too bad. We are all poorer as a result.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

Rickie - “Wow, that got weird.”

[RobertBaron]

> @ArtMBgolf said:

> I feel the guy being your course pro, it's less of an issue than a stranger.

> It would be far worse if they swing it, ground it on cement or a hit a ball.

> It would be interesting to know what the clubs are.

 

MP-14s

[3wood]

I’d say get over it Robert. Pro was just trying to be friendly and I doubt anyone would want to steal your old butter knives. Plus who parks a 2000 f150 away from other vehicles smh lol

[bladehunter]

> @jholz said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > > @jholz said:

> > > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> > >

> > > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> > >

> > > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> > >

> > > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > >

> > > Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > I’m assuming you missed the part in the first paragraph where this random guy was the new pro at the club? Do you honestly believe the new pro at the club is going to steal an iron from his bag, or bash his driver on the sidewalk?

> >

> > And yes, I’ve had stuff stolen. Had vehicles broken into. Neither of which is applicable to the club pro on the driving range.

> >

> > When I was younger, I might have been put off by it, but not to the point of the OP. The older I get, the less I care about getting worked up over silly things, and this is a silly thing to get worked up over in the context of the situation.

> >

>

> Nah, I caught that part. He's the **_new_** club pro, right?

>

> And yes, you do correctly bring up a point of potential disagreement - this issue of familiarity or "how well do we have to know someone before we are cool with them touching our stuff?" Within this topic, you are also correct to point out that I am making an assumption based on the OP's use of the term "new." Based upon the OP's use of this term, I am making an assumption that the OP has had either "no or limited contact" with the individual in question. This assumption could be true or false and I have based it upon limited evidence. You are correct. Nonetheless...

>

> Based upon my assumption that the OP has had "no or limited contact" with the new club pro, I took my analysis of the situation a few steps further.

>

> For me, I tend to define people with whom I have had "no or limited contact" as "virtual strangers." Under that definition, my extensive experience with people and human nature have given me ample evidence to support the idea that I need to be "reasonably" suspicious of anyone that I define under those terms - regardless of position, what I have heard about them, etc, etc, etc. Until I have direct experience with a person, I am going to be "reasonably" suspicious. As one gets to know people better, that level of suspicion will change obviously.

>

> Now, when I say something like that, I have to catch myself for a minute - because we get into the rather sticky subject of how we define the term "reasonable suspicion." You might get the sense that I walk around with a pistol in my golf bag or something. That isn't the case. I am "**_reasonable_**."

>

> So, for this particular incident, I would define "reasonable suspicion" as a level similar to lending your lighter to some random stranger in a bar. They might be fine folks, but that doesn't mean they won't slip your lighter into their pocket and walk away with it. And this isn't because they are thieves, it's because they are human. People do that kind of ****. Therefore, if I lend a lighter to a guy in a bar, and I care about getting it back, I am going to watch that person like a hawk. Experience has taught me this.

>

> Now, you might get the impression from the above analogy that I am suggesting that it is reasonable for me to assume that the new club pro in the OP's story was going to slip his $500 driver into his pocket and walk away. This, of course, is not the case. He didn't steal anything, didn't hurt anything. I am sure that he had no intention of doing so.

>

> Yet, because the OP is like me - and seems to have grown up around other human beings - he's going to get a bit distracted if someone is eyeing up his stuff. For us, this is a natural and anticipated response to this kind of behavior.

>

> What the new club pro did - or actually failed to do - was to understand something about how humans operate, and to take that into account when he approached someone new. As a result, he offended the OP. Like the OP, I think the new club pro is clueless.

>

> Here's why. Growing up surrounded by humans and coming through a system of human education, I think it reasonable (once again) to assume that the new club pro has been told - on countless occasions - "don't touch stuff that doesn't belong to you" or "ask before you touch something that doesn't belong to you." The people who came up with advice like that know how humans operate and how they feel. They take that into account when contemplating actions, and they act accordingly. When they find out what works, they try to pass that advice along to others in the form of rules, which we call etiquette. Having rules like this not only helps to prevent conflict, our adherence to those rules is also interpreted by other human beings as a sign of respect. In other words, if you have any respect for me as a human being, you won't come up and touch my stuff without asking, because you can reasonably anticipate that it will disturb or bother me.

>

> So, through a lack of caring or cluelessness, the new club pro totally disrespected the OP. Cut and dry. From this, I am able to assert with confidence that OP's new club pro = clueless douchebag. Until he showed me something different, that's the opinion I would hold.

>

> You are more than welcome to disagree with me, but you can't say that my position on this issue hasn't been carefully thought out.

 

This ^^ 100%. This is a politely worded version of my thoughts on it.

[bladehunter]

> @3wood said:

> I’d say get over it Robert. Pro was just trying to be friendly and I doubt anyone would want to steal your old butter knives. Plus who parks a 2000 f150 away from other vehicles smh lol

 

 

The guy who has 300 plus k on it and it still looks good. Any other brain busters. You laugh because you assume I baby it as my only vehicle. If it matters I have 6 under insurance currently. It’s the least valuable one by $50k or so.

 

The post above gets it right. This was an assertion of dominance by a new man. Walking the range assessing his minions. Anybody who defends rude behavior has to be practicing the same behavior.

 

The proper introduction is an outstretched hand with “ hello. My name is _______ I’m the new pro here. “. Then if he was truly interested in the clubs work the conversation that way. He wasn’t interested in the clubs. He simply wanted to show the guy he ran the place.

[wobgon]

If any of you ever see me at the range, feel free to touch my clubs......Some get a little silly about this....Just my opinion of course.....

[KevCarter]

> @wobgon said:

> If any of you ever see me at the range, feel free to touch my clubs......Some get a little silly about this....Just my opinion of course.....

 

Funny how much opinions on this can vary even from those with like minds. From "clueless douchebag" to my feeling of an old school pro just taking an interest in his members. I'm certainly guilty of doing the same thing, and will have to be more careful in the future...

[Swisstrader98]

OMG!! Another man touched your beloved clubs??!! Heavens to Betsy son.

 

You should start a blog about it, put the said incident up on IG with photos, then go to court and sue him for breach of decency.

 

[jholz]

> @turtlekc said:

> > @wobgon said:

> > If any of you ever see me at the range, feel free to touch my clubs......Some get a little silly about this....Just my opinion of course.....

>

> Funny how much opinions on this can vary even from those with like minds. From "clueless douchebag" to my feeling of an old school pro just taking an interest in his members. I'm certainly guilty of doing the same thing, and will have to be more careful in the future...

 

And that's kind of the point when it comes to social etiquette. Since there is a range of opinion, we try to err on the side of caution.

[Carl Spackler3]

You play MP 14s because you want attention to your clubs

[Vintage1976]

Yeah, I'm in the "not yours, don't touch it" camp. Not a firable offense to me but not a good first impression either.

[RobertBaron]

> @"Carl Spackler3" said:

> You play MP 14s because you want attention to your clubs

 

Yea my dress was a little short.

 

[bladehunter]

> @"Carl Spackler3" said:

> You play MP 14s because you want attention to your clubs

 

New most off base post of the thread.

 

How on earth ? If anything he’d have an all titleist bag complete with ap2 and vokey wedges. Mp14 doesn’t scream attention to anyone.

[jholz]

> @RobertBaron said:

> > @"Carl Spackler3" said:

> > You play MP 14s because you want attention to your clubs

>

> Yea my dress was a little short.

>

 

Nice one! Pretty apt analogy.

[LeoLeo99]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"Carl Spackler3" said:

> > You play MP 14s because you want attention to your clubs

>

> New most off base post of the thread.

>

> How on earth ? If anything he’d have an all titleist bag complete with ap2 and vokey wedges. Mp14 doesn’t scream attention to anyone.

 

I disagree. They are pretty blades that invite caressing.

[Carl Spackler3]

Just funnin’ Take it easy

[cardoustie]

Pro at home range ... I'm ok with it

 

 

[MtlJeff]

I don't think you should ever touch other people's stuff without asking. I mean i don't think the OP was really seething here, people start threads on this site all the time for a variety of reasons. I mean why are golf clubs different? I don't want strangers walking up and touching my car, my stuff in the office, whatever....why is it so hard to just be polite and ask? Like "hey man, these are nice clubs mind if i check them out?"....WHY IS THAT SO HARD

 

We should be putting the onus on the other guy not the OP. You don't just walk up and touch people things. Just ask, i'm sure the OP would have said sure. But don't grab things that aren't yours

 

So yeah i'd be a little put off. I mean would i tie him to the hood of a car and put a homemade bomb in his butt like in "man on fire"....._probably_ not. But it's not outside the realm of possibility.

[Hawkeye77]

> @MtlJeff said:

> I don't think you should ever touch other people's stuff without asking. I mean i don't think the OP was really seething here, people start threads on this site all the time for a variety of reasons. I mean why are golf clubs different? I don't want strangers walking up and touching my car, my stuff in the office, whatever....why is it so hard to just be polite and ask? Like "hey man, these are nice clubs mind if i check them out?"....WHY IS THAT SO HARD

>

> We should be putting the onus on the other guy not the OP. You don't just walk up and touch people things. Just ask, i'm sure the OP would have said sure. But don't grab things that aren't yours

>

> So yeah i'd be a little put off. I mean would i tie him to the hood of a car and put a homemade bomb in his butt like in "man on fire"....._probably_ not. But it's not outside the realm of possibility.

 

I wish you had more time!

[nsxguy]

> @jholz said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > > @jholz said:

> > > For those that question why anyone would get upset about someone touching their stuff without their permission, I have a few questions for you.

> > >

> > > Have you ever had anything stolen? Are you aware that some people steal stuff? Additionally, have you ever noticed that some people have a tendency to be less careful with stuff that doesn't belong to them?

> > >

> > > Given these well established truths of human nature, if someone is messing with my stuff without asking, a small part of me is always going to wonder: "Are they trying to steal my stuff? Are they going to bash my driver into the sidewalk?" In this world, you have no idea what people might do.

> > >

> > > For those that still don't have a problem with the scenario as presented - do you just not care about your stuff? Are you willing to let someone damage it or walk away with it? Or, are you simply assuming that any person at a driving range - whether golf pro or not - is above theft or carelessness? It seems you are living in a different reality than my own.

> > >

> > > Theft, ultimately, is the fault of the idiot that fails to lock their door.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > I’m assuming you missed the part in the first paragraph where this random guy was the new pro at the club? Do you honestly believe the new pro at the club is going to steal an iron from his bag, or bash his driver on the sidewalk?

> >

> > And yes, I’ve had stuff stolen. Had vehicles broken into. Neither of which is applicable to the club pro on the driving range.

> >

> > When I was younger, I might have been put off by it, but not to the point of the OP. The older I get, the less I care about getting worked up over silly things, and this is a silly thing to get worked up over in the context of the situation.

> >

>

> Nah, I caught that part. He's the **_new_** club pro, right?

>

> And yes, you do correctly bring up a point of potential disagreement - this issue of familiarity or "how well do we have to know someone before we are cool with them touching our stuff?" Within this topic, you are also correct to point out that I am making an assumption based on the OP's use of the term "new." Based upon the OP's use of this term, I am making an assumption that the OP has had either "no or limited contact" with the individual in question. This assumption could be true or false and I have based it upon limited evidence. You are correct. Nonetheless...

>

> Based upon my assumption that the OP has had "no or limited contact" with the new club pro, I took my analysis of the situation a few steps further.

>

> For me, I tend to define people with whom I have had "no or limited contact" as "virtual strangers." Under that definition, my extensive experience with people and human nature have given me ample evidence to support the idea that I need to be "reasonably" suspicious of anyone that I define under those terms - regardless of position, what I have heard about them, etc, etc, etc. Until I have direct experience with a person, I am going to be "reasonably" suspicious. As one gets to know people better, that level of suspicion will change obviously.

>

> Now, when I say something like that, I have to catch myself for a minute - because we get into the rather sticky subject of how we define the term "reasonable suspicion." You might get the sense that I walk around with a pistol in my golf bag or something. That isn't the case. I am "**_reasonable_**."

>

> So, for this particular incident, I would define "reasonable suspicion" as a level similar to lending your lighter to some random stranger in a bar. They might be fine folks, but that doesn't mean they won't slip your lighter into their pocket and walk away with it. And this isn't because they are thieves, it's because they are human. People do that kind of ****. Therefore, if I lend a lighter to a guy in a bar, and I care about getting it back, I am going to watch that person like a hawk. Experience has taught me this.

>

> Now, you might get the impression from the above analogy that I am suggesting that it is reasonable for me to assume that the new club pro in the OP's story was going to slip his $500 driver into his pocket and walk away. This, of course, is not the case. He didn't steal anything, didn't hurt anything. I am sure that he had no intention of doing so.

>

> Yet, because the OP is like me - and seems to have grown up around other human beings - he's going to get a bit distracted if someone is eyeing up his stuff. For us, this is a natural and anticipated response to this kind of behavior.

>

> What the new club pro did - or actually failed to do - was to understand something about how humans operate, and to take that into account when he approached someone new. As a result, he offended the OP. Like the OP, I think the new club pro is clueless.

>

> Here's why. Growing up surrounded by humans and coming through a system of human education, I think it reasonable (once again) to assume that the new club pro has been told - on countless occasions - "don't touch stuff that doesn't belong to you" or "ask before you touch something that doesn't belong to you." The people who came up with advice like that know how humans operate and how they feel. They take that into account when contemplating actions, and they act accordingly. When they find out what works, they try to pass that advice along to others in the form of rules, which we call etiquette. Having rules like this not only helps to prevent conflict, our adherence to those rules is also interpreted by other human beings as a sign of respect. In other words, if you have any respect for me as a human being, you won't come up and touch my stuff without asking, because you can reasonably anticipate that it will disturb or bother me.

>

> So, through a lack of caring or cluelessness, the new club pro totally disrespected the OP. Cut and dry. From this, I am able to assert with confidence that OP's new club pro = clueless douchebag. Until he showed me something different, that's the opinion I would hold.

>

> You are more than welcome to disagree with me, but you can't say that my position on this issue hasn't been carefully thought out.

 

Sheldon ?

 

Sheldon Cooper ? Is that you ? LMAO