Where are you playing tomorrow - Chicago (Round2)

[Argonne69]

In my next life I want to come back as a weatherman. It must be nice to have a job where you can be wrong over half the time, and they still pay you. I took the day off work today because the forecast two days ago called for mostly sunny skies, and no rain. Instead we get cloudy skies, and scattered rain in the morning. Sheesh.

 

'Played two rounds at Dubsdread today. The teeboxes and fairways were in fine condition. The greens were soft, and a bit beat up. I don't think I've seen them in this condition. Speeds were moderate, and no where near what they usually play at. The bunkers were bordering on Harborside-like. I'm not kidding. The under-lining was coming up in places, and quite a few of them were pretty much hard pan. Not quite as bad a Harborside, but getting there. I'm used to fluffy sand there, but it was anything but. On top of that, I must have raked large footprints in of 6 or 7 bunkers. WTF. Has the entitled generation decided that paying top dollar for a round alleviates them from the need to rake bunkers? Disgusting.

 

Pace of play was OK, but should have been much better. I joined a twosome for the first round, and we followed a foursome around for 11 holes until they finally waved us through on #12. The two I were with were spraying the ball everywhere, so we didn't get much opportunity to jump ahead. After taking 20 minutes to play the par 4 13th, I told them I was going to play on ahead. I didn't see another soul for the remainder of the round, so the group in front of us was easily 3 holes behind. Ugh.

 

Had a fantastic first round nonetheless. I hit 12 greens, and had 3 birdies on the way to a Dubs personal best of 1 over. Highlights included playing the four par 3's at 2 under, with birdies on #2 and #12. The birdie on #12 was sweet, as the foursome in front had signaled us to hit while off to the side of the green, and I stuck the tee shot to within 4 feet. No pressure there. The other highlight was birdieing the par 5 9th for the first time, and allowing me to finish the outward nine in one under. I got a big break when my big draw off the tee went through the large tree on the right side of the fairway. 'No idea how it didn't hit a branch.

 

The 2nd round was OK, but I was running out of steam, and was rushing a bit as I played my way through a number of groups. I hit a handful more fairways, but fewer greens. The putter went cool, and I finished with a decent six over.

 

I have to say I was a bit surprised by the course conditions. I know we got a bit of rain Wednesday, but I didn't expect the greens to be so soft and beat up. The bunkers were almost shocking for a course that prides itself on its bunkering. Dubs is my favorite course in the area, but I may have to reconsider if things don't improve.

[Holy Moses]

You sure all the rain we had this week didn't wash the bunkers out and Dubs didn't have enough time to fix them yet?

[Argonne69]

You sure all the rain we had this week didn't wash the bunkers out and Dubs didn't have enough time to fix them yet?

 

We had a bit of rain on Wednesday, and nothing on Thursday. I expect a little wetness, but this was not what I expect from a high-end course.

[propman]

Kinda of surprised anyone plays Dubs given the cost. We've had a Sunday tee time at Cog since 1991. It does not include Dubs. Anyhoo, Dubs ain't getting alot of play on Sundays ( it's almost eerie seeing nobody on the course). Lower the cost to a more realistic amount, say $100 and it would be a popular course.

[disk]

Kinda of surprised anyone plays Dubs given the cost. We've had a Sunday tee time at Cog since 1991. It does not include Dubs. Anyhoo, Dubs ain't getting alot of play on Sundays ( it's almost eerie seeing nobody on the course). Lower the cost to a more realistic amount, say $100 and it would be a popular course.

 

That's basically how I felt after the round, fun layout but conditions and emeneties certainly did not warrant the price tag (to me at least, everyone has there own opinion). I wasn't a golfer when they had pga events there so I would love to known what it was like, one would assume conditions would be top notch but you never know.

[Argonne69]

Kinda of surprised anyone plays Dubs given the cost. We've had a Sunday tee time at Cog since 1991. It does not include Dubs. Anyhoo, Dubs ain't getting alot of play on Sundays ( it's almost eerie seeing nobody on the course). Lower the cost to a more realistic amount, say $100 and it would be a popular course.

 

That's basically how I felt after the round, fun layout but conditions and emeneties certainly did not warrant the price tag (to me at least, everyone has there own opinion). I wasn't a golfer when they had pga events there so I would love to known what it was like, one would assume conditions would be top notch but you never know.

 

I think the fact that they hosted a PGA event for years allowed them to get away with charging a bit more than the course warranted. The conditions were always top notch when I played it. I sure appears that they're cutting back on costs. Yeah, the clubhouse needs to be bulldozed.

[Argonne69]

Teed it up at Big Run today. It's been five years since my last visit, and little has changed. I did forget how penal the course is when you don't put the ball in the fairway. The fairways were in nice shape, as were the greens. However, as others have pointed out recently, the green speeds are on the slow side. It was a struggle to get the ball to the hole on the uphill putts. Like Harborside, the bunkers are trash. I guess nobody knows how to keep sand in the traps. Hard pan was the order of the day. The course is not charging >$100, but for $69 one does expect some sand. The pace of play was nice. We finished the round in 4:10, and rarely had to wait.

 

In theory I had a decent day ball striking, but the numbers don't show it. Solid contact, but slightly off line put me in the trees. I swear I used my 7 iron more today than I have all month, but only once was it for a standard 155 yard shot. Six fairways and eight greens does not make for a great round. However, two birdies on the front helped offset the 7 bogies.

 

The highlight of the day actually came on the practice green. I was running late, and missed breakfast, so I has munching on a granola bar. I had 5 minutes before tee time, and walked over to the green to hit a few putts. I dropped two balls, and since I holding my breakfast in my left hand, put a nice single handed stroke on the ball, targeting a hole 30 feet away. Of course it went in, and I got a good chuckle out of it. I stepped to the 2nd ball, hit the same one handed putt, and d*mn if it didn't drop, too. I should have either packed up the clubs and headed home, or started putting one handed for the round.

[golfer912]

From Michigan, and Warwick hills was like that with the Buick Open. Granted it is private but the initiation and dues were something I could never afford. But since the Buick Open has left, it's barely anything to join as a junior member. I could afford it on my small salary if I still lived there. Dubs needs to lower prices. Played once last year and it was in top notch shape. This year it was probably the slowest greens I putted on all season. Went a little downhill on condition. But of course having that previous PGA event gives them the ability to price high

 

Kinda of surprised anyone plays Dubs given the cost. We've had a Sunday tee time at Cog since 1991. It does not include Dubs. Anyhoo, Dubs ain't getting alot of play on Sundays ( it's almost eerie seeing nobody on the course). Lower the cost to a more realistic amount, say $100 and it would be a popular course.

 

That's basically how I felt after the round, fun layout but conditions and emeneties certainly did not warrant the price tag (to me at least, everyone has there own opinion). I wasn't a golfer when they had pga events there so I would love to known what it was like, one would assume conditions would be top notch but you never know.

 

I think the fact that they hosted a PGA event for years allowed them to get away with charging a bit more than the course warranted. The conditions were always top notch when I played it. I sure appears that they're cutting back on costs. Yeah, the clubhouse needs to be bulldozed.

[jimwgt26]

Arg inspired me to play Big Run today. I got an 11am time for $45/ walking. Traffic sucked, so I got there with no time to spare. There was supposed to be four in our group, but two didn't show. That also sucked because the course was jam packed. A twosome between foursomes is never fun, especially for a 5 hour round.

The other single I played with was a nice guy.

 

I'm aBR fan, however, since I moved from downtown to The Northwest Side, I don't get there as often as I'd like.

 

Arg's description of the conditions are accurate and what I expected. I've said it before, they need to do a little tree trimming, especially on holes 1, 9, 12 and 18. It's no coincidence those holes have the biggest backups.

 

Number 9 is a real MFer. I've played BR a 100 times in the last 20 plus years. I can't remember paring that hole. I always wind up playing pinball in the trees. Today I hit two good shots and had 110 yards to a back pin. Again, I don't remember ever being in position to get on that green in regulation. Of course my wedge was the most pure flushed shot of the day and the ball sailed over the green into the bushes. Unplayable lie = double bogie:(

[Holy Moses]

# 9 at Big Run is one of the toughest holes I've seen. I was on in 3, but I was on the practice putting green. The greens are slow, but with the slope on many of them like #11 it would be difficult to keep some putts on the green if they cut them short.

[Thunder Dan]

Kinda of surprised anyone plays Dubs given the cost. We've had a Sunday tee time at Cog since 1991. It does not include Dubs. Anyhoo, Dubs ain't getting alot of play on Sundays ( it's almost eerie seeing nobody on the course). Lower the cost to a more realistic amount, say $100 and it would be a popular course.

 

The owners are too prideful to lower the price or offer discounts. They still need to make up for the millions they paid Rees Jones to ruin that course.

[ldchristopher]

I played my usual Saturday 36 today. God, fall golf is awesome. To walk 36 holes for a combined $63 on a weekend isn't something that ever happens during the summer near Chicago. Maybe in Wisconsin or Northwest Indiana but not around here. The first course was Ledges, which is an insane $15 to walk. On a weekend. Process that for a second. Driving to Rockford is a pain but it's worth it if it means I'm the first person on the course. A friend of mine and I played in 2:45. Ledges used to be a country club but is now run by the Winnebago County Forest Preserve. It has a great layout, decent numbers (72.1/132) for a 6650 yard course, and smooth but slow greens. It's absurdly cheap so I don't expect much in terms of maintenance but the place was in very good shape. Having cloud cover all night was a nice bonus since there was no excess dew on the fairways or greens. Because of the low rates, Ledges backs up in the summer (the resident rate is $15 to walk in the summer, and $10 in the fall, which of course begs the question, "How can they possibly make any money?"). However, there were only about 7 or 8 groups on the course today.

 

Round two was at Oak Grove. They're not officially on fall rates yet but have been flooding my inbox with coupons. As a result, we were able to walk it for $48 at noon. The pace wasn't as great as when I fly through at twilight but we finished in 4:15. Oak Grove is still in pristine condition and has not punched the greens yet. I'm sure they will relatively soon, but they were running very smooth. They aren't ever very fast (generally they run at about a 9.5) and the rain we had brought a bunch of rocks to the top of the bunkers, but everything else is top notch. The fact that I could watch Notre Dame lose to Duke in the clubhouse after the round was icing on the cake.

[stasek]

# 9 at Big Run is one of the toughest holes I've seen. I was on in 3, but I was on the practice putting green. The greens are slow, but with the slope on many of them like #11 it would be difficult to keep some putts on the green if they cut them short.

I've mentioned this before, but what the hack... Few years ago I played BR with a former D1 player, who at the time was probably scratch or right around... On 9, He proceeded to hit driver (~310)/driver (270-280) to about 2-3 yards short of the green. He promptly bladed his chip to the third tier (flag was in the middle) and barely walked away with a par. On 18, he hit driver, 2 iron just over the green, and had to scramble for par again. Shot maybe 1 or two over par, but that was some of the best ball striking I've ever seen.

[propman]

Kinda of surprised anyone plays Dubs given the cost. We've had a Sunday tee time at Cog since 1991. It does not include Dubs. Anyhoo, Dubs ain't getting alot of play on Sundays ( it's almost eerie seeing nobody on the course). Lower the cost to a more realistic amount, say $100 and it would be a popular course.

 

The owners are too prideful to lower the price or offer discounts. They still need to make up for the millions they paid Rees Jones to ruin that course.

 

Based on the lack of play I see on Dubs, they should swallow their pride and lower the cost. More golfers equals more income.

[golfdad907]

Kinda of surprised anyone plays Dubs given the cost. We've had a Sunday tee time at Cog since 1991. It does not include Dubs. Anyhoo, Dubs ain't getting alot of play on Sundays ( it's almost eerie seeing nobody on the course). Lower the cost to a more realistic amount, say $100 and it would be a popular course.

 

The owners are too prideful to lower the price or offer discounts. They still need to make up for the millions they paid Rees Jones to ruin that course.

 

I remember when Dubs was all of $28 with a cart. Tournaments enlarged an already inflated head on Jemseks, and then after Rees Jones just ruined a great original Dick Wilson design, they needed to get their money back...too bad they forgot the golfing public when pricing. Maybe they'll figure it out someday, then again, likely not.

[MountainKing]

In my next life I want to come back as a weatherman. It must be nice to have a job where you can be wrong over half the time, and they still pay you. I took the day off work today because the forecast two days ago called for mostly sunny skies, and no rain. Instead we get cloudy skies, and scattered rain in the morning. Sheesh.

 

'Played two rounds at Dubsdread today. The teeboxes and fairways were in fine condition. The greens were soft, and a bit beat up. I don't think I've seen them in this condition. Speeds were moderate, and no where near what they usually play at. The bunkers were bordering on Harborside-like. I'm not kidding. The under-lining was coming up in places, and quite a few of them were pretty much hard pan. Not quite as bad a Harborside, but getting there. I'm used to fluffy sand there, but it was anything but. On top of that, I must have raked large footprints in of 6 or 7 bunkers. WTF. Has the entitled generation decided that paying top dollar for a round alleviates them from the need to rake bunkers? Disgusting.

 

Pace of play was OK, but should have been much better. I joined a twosome for the first round, and we followed a foursome around for 11 holes until they finally waved us through on #12. The two I were with were spraying the ball everywhere, so we didn't get much opportunity to jump ahead. After taking 20 minutes to play the par 4 13th, I told them I was going to play on ahead. I didn't see another soul for the remainder of the round, so the group in front of us was easily 3 holes behind. Ugh.

 

Had a fantastic first round nonetheless. I hit 12 greens, and had 3 birdies on the way to a Dubs personal best of 1 over. Highlights included playing the four par 3's at 2 under, with birdies on #2 and #12. The birdie on #12 was sweet, as the foursome in front had signaled us to hit while off to the side of the green, and I stuck the tee shot to within 4 feet. No pressure there. The other highlight was birdieing the par 5 9th for the first time, and allowing me to finish the outward nine in one under. I got a big break when my big draw off the tee went through the large tree on the right side of the fairway. 'No idea how it didn't hit a branch.

 

The 2nd round was OK, but I was running out of steam, and was rushing a bit as I played my way through a number of groups. I hit a handful more fairways, but fewer greens. The putter went cool, and I finished with a decent six over.

 

I have to say I was a bit surprised by the course conditions. I know we got a bit of rain Wednesday, but I didn't expect the greens to be so soft and beat up. The bunkers were almost shocking for a course that prides itself on its bunkering. Dubs is my favorite course in the area, but I may have to reconsider if things don't improve.

 

 

I'm not sure what's going on over there but I have heard nothing but bad things about Dubs over the course of this entire year. It was pristine when I played out there last year. One of my playing partners and I played #3 over the summer and he felt that was in better condition than dubs was when he played it a few weeks earlier. I do agree also that $155 is a bit much for that course these days.

[MountainKing]

I guess nobody knows how to keep sand in the traps.

 

 

As I mentioned a few pages back, Thunderhawk should lend some of their sand to these courses....

[Argonne69]

Just finished walking 18 at Glenview Park GC. This is my first round there since their renovation last season. The layout hasn't changed much, but they worked on the drainage, and the bunkers. Wow. Actual sand in the bunkers. It's almost shocking to hit a bunker shot, and hear the thump of the sand, instead on the clang off of hard pan. The course is in nice shape, although the greens looked a bit beat up. Still, they rolled smooth with a nice fast pace.

 

I had a bit of a push off the tee today, hitting only 7 fairways, and 10 greens. Still, I had 4 nice birdies and 3 scrambles to salvage the mediocre ball striking.

 

All in all, a nice round on a wonderful fall day.

[Thunder Dan]

Kinda of surprised anyone plays Dubs given the cost. We've had a Sunday tee time at Cog since 1991. It does not include Dubs. Anyhoo, Dubs ain't getting alot of play on Sundays ( it's almost eerie seeing nobody on the course). Lower the cost to a more realistic amount, say $100 and it would be a popular course.

 

The owners are too prideful to lower the price or offer discounts. They still need to make up for the millions they paid Rees Jones to ruin that course.

 

I remember when Dubs was all of $28 with a cart. Tournaments enlarged an already inflated head on Jemseks, and then after Rees Jones just ruined a great original Dick Wilson design, they needed to get their money back...too bad they forgot the golfing public when pricing. Maybe they'll figure it out someday, then again, likely not.

 

We were talking to their pro shop staff last year and it's funny how brainwashed they have their staff. Not only do they believe the PGA Tour is in talks to come back, but that other tournaments and tours are scouting the grounds. The gentleman (with a straight face) said that they actually make more money without the PGA Tour because they don't have to forgo a week of daily rate play.

 

That is the same thing Donald Trump says about Doral, so it must be taught at Losing the PGA Tour 101

[Holy Moses]

What did Jones do in the redesign of Dubs that made the Tour hate it so much?

[ldchristopher]

What did Jones do in the redesign of Dubs that made the Tour hate it so much?

s

 

A lot of tour guys don't like Rees Jones' designs, especially players with high visibility like Mickelson. They complained that the greens were too springy and that the course was difficult but not enjoyable. Cog went through with the redesign to try to get the U.S. Open and in the process they made the course way too difficult for regular tour events like the BMW. A 7500 yard parkland-style course with ultra deep bunkers, elevated greens and a rating/slope that's something like 75/155 (not sure of the exact numbers since I haven't played Cog in a couple of years) is comparable to the types of places that get the Open. However, the PGA likes low scores at the non-majors and Dubs didn't deliver that.

[Argonne69]

Lol. Too difficult. C'mon, The course was redesigned in 2008. Tiger ate the course up at the BMW in 2009 shooting -19. DJ won it in 2010 shooting -9. Justin Rose won at -13 in 2011.

 

Zach won at Conway Farms with a -6.

 

Tell me again how difficult they made Dubs?

 

You can read about the kvetching here: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20100916/BLOGS05/309169990/architect-jones-on-defending-cog-hill-theres-a-reason-its-called-dubsdread

[VNutz]

Phil's main complaint of Dubs seemed a little twisted IMO. He said they made it too hard for the average golfer, well that's most PGA venue courses IMO. I really don't think the pros disliked the course, I truly think it was an organized effort by the pros to get it over to their buddy Luke Donald's course. You never hear that many pros complain in unison like that, usually they have at least a little more tact. My brother used to work on a crew prepping Dubs for the Western Open every year, back when that still existed. He had a chat with Phil once during a practice round and Phil couldn't have praised the course and the conditions more, and it's not like the renovation was a complete overhaul. I never played it before the renovation, but I didn't find it too hard, it was a great challenge IMO. The Jemseks did what they were told to try to get a major, and somehow it backfired. As to price, it's maybe a bit on the pricey side for what it is, but if that were dropped it might get more play than they prefer and get torn up.

 

Played Maple Meadows Saturday as part of a yearly church outing. The greens on the south and east portion of the course were aerated and a complete crap shoot for putting, the other half was like a pool table in comparison, impossible to get your speed correct. Other than that the course looked great.

[Gdane]

I really enjoyed my round at Arrowhead over the weekend. Spent a little bit more than usual but I think the price tag was well worth it.

 

We played the South/East combo. I liked both equally, but I will say I think the South course sets up a bit better for someone who has played there before. I lost two strokes on each of the first holes making mistakes I wouldn't have made if I knew the course better....and for those of you who haven't played there before, DO NOT go long on the 3rd. Only birdie of the day came on the Par 5 first on the East. Tight hole but I was able to keep it straight.

 

I was very impressed with the conditioning of the course. The rough was penal, especially around the greens, and the ball rolled true on the putting surfaces.

 

We were trying to compare the course to another one in the area and really couldn't come up with a comp. From the pictures that I've seen it looked a bit like Naperville Country Clubn

[Argonne69]

Harborside gets lots of play at $105 (w/ tax). Cantigny and Mistwood are in the same category. I think Dubs in the $100 to $125 range would be acceptable, and I'd certainly play it more than once a year.

 

Another factor to consider in the BMW's move to Conway Farms is the corporate donations. Lemont/Palos isn't quite the corporate capital of the Chicago area. When I was at the BMW in 2013, I overheard a conversation regarding corporate donations, and the guys said that there was a significant increase with the move to Lake Forest. Dubs is a great course, but it doesn't quite have the real estate to set up the big tents/skyboxes like CF.

 

I've never bought into the idea that a course must be playable by all skill levels. If you go to a ski resort, there are bunny hills, and then there are black diamond runs. Cog Hill has two courses for the average player, a more challenging course in #2, and then Dubs. As noted in the article, there's a reason it's called Dubsdread. I certainly find it playable from the correct tees, but it can and will eat you up if you're not striking the ball well. I don't quite understand the angst with the greens. They're not easy, but they are far from the hardest greens in the Chicago area.

[VNutz]

Yeah, the North end of town has a lot more cash to throw around than the southern end where Cog is at. Probably a lot more hotels and restaurants around Conway as well.

[Well Played]

Played Bowes Creek yesterday morning... I really liked the layout, but the greens were in rough shape.

 

I thought the layout was fun, pretty unique, and visually intimidating off the tee. You realize when you get to the fairway that there is more room out there than you thought, but that's a course knowledge nuance typical of many tracks. Felt like two completely different nines - the front long and right in front of you, and the back shorter and much more strategic/risk-reward. Makes sense, I think per the card the front is ~300 yards longer than the back (but also par 36, as opposed to 35 on the back). The par 3s are awesome and challenging, the fairways were in good shape, the rough very inconsistent hole to hole, but I generally don't like complaining about that cuz, well, don't hit it in the rough!

 

The greens... Oy, not good. They were beat up pretty badly, and most disappointing they didn't hold. I like firm and fast, but they need to hold an 8-iron from 140 out in the fairway. And the fringe and rough around the greens were dried out, shaggy and inconsistent in many spots. They didn't roll too terribly, as long as you were willing to spend the time repairing a path along the line of your putt - another thing about which I am reluctant to be critical as most public tracks are going to be bumpy, but you can tell certain places take a little more pride in that than others...

 

So in short, I loved the layout but it could use some TLC on and around the greens. Pretty reasonably priced too, and finished in 4:10 so I'll go back, but maybe wait until I hear the greens are in better shape.

 

Looking forward to trying HoE next to compare...

 

[middie8]

I will be in Chicago next Monday 10/3. Thinking of playing HOE from what I am reading. Was initially looking at Dubs but with the reviews plus the cost its too much IMO. I have to add in the Uber to get there, bag fees on the flight, etc.

[businessclass]

I will be in Chicago next Monday 10/3. Thinking of playing HOE from what I am reading. Was initially looking at Dubs but with the reviews plus the cost its too much IMO. I have to add in the Uber to get there, bag fees on the flight, etc.

They are aerating both Elgin courses on 10/3 and 10/4.

[geochitown]

Prairie landing isn't aerating until 10/10, I believe

 

Could be a good option for you