This is why courses close...

[North Butte]

Maybe the guys who play there have a funny relationship between beers and range balls. For my part I sure know which one of those two things helps my game more...free range balls would do me no good but free beer, now THAT'S something I could put to good use

[North Butte]

Of course it depends on the free beer. I used to play at a place where if you asked what the beer choices were they said, "We've got both kinds. Bud AND Bud Light".

 

Budweiser is like those restricted-flight range balls and Bud Light is like range balls with the dimples worn off.

[SadTrombone]

I have no idea how people choke down bud and bud light. If it wasn't for the frogs and horses, an Anheuser-Busch would have to be a faint memory.

 

Maybe that's why courses close. Bad beer.

[EddieEdwards]

A friend of mine managed to make a tee time 40 minutes before the course opened last week. Gate was locked when we got there. They let us hit the range while we waited though.

 

Another course, I showed up at 2pm as a single and was told I could only play nine. When I was finishing up I noticed the league was going of the back only. Why couldn't I have played the back first? I will be playing elsewhere in the afternoon.

[RSinSG]

I find it odd tha so many posters feel the need to be rude and condescending. These kinds of threads pop up occasionally, and I don't understand the need to attack others for how they feel.

[SadTrombone]

 

In my opinion though, any course that actually charges for range balls if you're playing a round should go out of business. It's the same as a hotel resort fee, both suck.

 

I feel it's petty to charge a guy who just paid $60 for his round, $5 for range balls to warm up. I'd like to agree with you that they should close, but that would eliminate 75% of the local courses. Nearly all of them squeeze you for the $4-5 before the round to hit 30 balls.

 

They wouldn't close, they'd just start charging $65 for the golf.

[BIG STU]

My Dad ran a public daily fee course for 20 years. It was a 9 hole regulation course and 9 hole par 3 course. Now we had our weekend morning regulars 2 seperate groups of at least 20 players each. They were there every Saturday and Sunday morning unless the weather was bad. They were the bread and butter of the operation. Then through out the morning you had various regulars. My old man accomondated everyone for him it was not so much about money but people and the love of the game. I have seen folks like singles come in and he would pair them up with someone. He had a guy come in one day and the old man told him I can pair you up in about an hour with the Jones group in the meantime free of charge play the Par 3 course as much as you like and when they get here I will send someone to get you and pair you up. He would bend over backwards to help ANY customer and expected the same of the staff. Yep most of the people working at courses here would last with him about 15 minutes the way they treat customers. I have also seen him tell walk up customers we are stacked today and there is no way I can get you off this morning but play our Par 3 free of charge or you can go to the bottom of the hill about a 1/2 mile away to our range and hit balls free of charge. If you are still there and we get an opening I will send someone to get you. He was a people's person so to speak. That course even though it was only 9 holes made money the whole time he ran it. When he retired it went through several leases and finally closed there are condos and a shopping center on it now.

[BillyZ2]

This seems quite simple to me, the course was set up for a tournament and they didn't want interference from anybody who was not playing in the tournament. It's like setting up the dining room table for a big feast and having somebody come in and wanting to eat there before the feast.

[El Kabong]

I wish that courses that I play in NC would open at 6 am. My home course opens at 7:30. I have been to another course in the summer during the week and it didn't open till 8:30 am!

 

The horror.

 

Say what you want, but for some of us, the course opening at 0700 vs 0830 is the difference between playing 3-4 times per week and playing 1-2 times per month. I'm also in NC, and since it's plenty light enough to play golf at 0630 right now, and there's a line of people waiting to get on the course when they unlock the gates at 0730, I'm guessing there could be some money to be made by opening a little earlier.

 

And before folks start with "well the grounds crew needs time..." I was grounds crew for 3 years, at a course where the first tee time in the summer was 0630. We got it done okay.

[SadTrombone]

The grounds crew can work 3-11 if necessary. You don't let the grounds crew 7am start interfere with revenue.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

My Dad ran a public daily fee course for 20 years. It was a 9 hole regulation course and 9 hole par 3 course. Now we had our weekend morning regulars 2 seperate groups of at least 20 players each. They were there every Saturday and Sunday morning unless the weather was bad. They were the bread and butter of the operation. Then through out the morning you had various regulars. My old man accomondated everyone for him it was not so much about money but people and the love of the game. I have seen folks like singles come in and he would pair them up with someone. He had a guy come in one day and the old man told him I can pair you up in about an hour with the Jones group in the meantime free of charge play the Par 3 course as much as you like and when they get here I will send someone to get you and pair you up. He would bend over backwards to help ANY customer and expected the same of the staff. Yep most of the people working at courses here would last with him about 15 minutes the way they treat customers. I have also seen him tell walk up customers we are stacked today and there is no way I can get you off this morning but play our Par 3 free of charge or you can go to the bottom of the hill about a 1/2 mile away to our range and hit balls free of charge. If you are still there and we get an opening I will send someone to get you. He was a people's person so to speak. That course even though it was only 9 holes made money the whole time he ran it. When he retired it went through several leases and finally closed there are condos and a shopping center on it now.

 

Sounds like your dad was a good steward to the game and he also understood that running a golf course is akin to the hospitality business. --- Make the customer feel welcome and make them want to keep coming back.

 

I just got off work, my buddy makes a tee time for 7:30, I've been up since 8am yesterday and I head to the course to stay awake and hit some balls before we play.

 

The course we're playing doesn't have a driving range but, it's sister course across the street does. I head over there and no one is there. It's 6am on Saturday!!!!

 

When they finally open up, no hello, no good morning, just a "do you have a tee time?". I said no just want to hit some balls. Guy says can't do it because they have a junior tourny at 10. I was floored. That is 4 hours from now.

 

Courses wonder why they are having trouble staying open???

 

Is that garbage Barry? It sure is Other Barry, it sure is.

 

First of all, the employee displayed ZERO hospitality skills. Secondly, since he asked if you have a tee time, then it seems they were going to let people play that course ahead of the tourney start. Thirdly, your use of the range has zero impact on the tournament that starts in 4 hours-- but whatever, maybe they needed to go out and pick the range before the tournament and hadn't done that yet--- still not good to turn away revenue or make a customer feel unwelcome,

 

Regardless, if these are "sister courses" as you put it, and under the same management, then they should have anticipated accordingly for their guests.

[Edaw68]

Other Barry, you make me want to change my name to an Archer related character just so we can have conversations. I love that show! Dr. Krieger is my favorite!

 

Krieger or Chet Manly. Even Classic Rando. Hands down one of my favorite shows

 

Sorry I tried to spit roast your mom.

[DrSchteeve]

The initial post is like a Rohrchach test - there is too little information to paint the complete picture, so we (including the OP) are trying to make judgements when we really don't know what was going on. First off, who knows who the employee is that the OP was interacting with? Owner? Long time employee facility manager? Ranger? Since we don't know that, we don't know how representative of the course the OP's experience was. We don't know whether there was only the tournament, or other golf to be played at that course that day, including the mysterious "Do you have a tee time?" question. We don't know the range setup, including what the course might want the environment to be like for the tournament.

 

But then the OP doesn't know that information either, and is ready to write the obituary for golf businesses that won't open the range for a guy at 6 am when the course has a tournament scheduled that day and is not opening the range to the public that day (plenty of courses don't open their ranges to the public, even if they are a public course). Maybe just a teensy overreaction fueled by no sleep?

[Hot Rod 71]

Courses everywhere are cutting back on costs just to keep afloat. I can only hypothesize from what the OP wrote, so here goes.....

 

Tournament scheduled for 10:00 for a large number of juniors. In an effort save money, the course had the closing staff clean-pick the range so they would have the maximum number of range balls available. Many courses have cut back on the number of range balls they purchase in order to save money. The closers also pre-set the range for the next day - cleaned up any trash, set-up teeing area, etc.

 

With the range already set and no play scheduled until the tournament, there is no need to have a ranger, starter, or numerous cart staff until later, closer to tournament time. This cuts hours and saves money.

 

As far as the "do you have a tee time" question....sometimes phrases like that just come out since pro shop staff say them 100 times a day. He may have been asking to figure out if you made a tee time elsewhere and maybe were in the wrong place. I see it all time - a player shows up claiming a tee time has been set. I say "we don't have anything under that name". He calls the friend that set it up and finds out the tee time was made elsewhere.

 

Golf courses have been cutting back anywhere possible; I see it all the time where I work . Cutting 3 hours per day for 2-3 employees saves a ton of money over the span of a year. Denying a customer a $5 bucket of range balls on a day the course is closed for a tournament is justified by the $100 they save by bringing in employees a few hours late.

[GHIN n Juice]

I've been on both sides of this situation and, well the course made a decision that they can live with. I doubt it will close as a result.

 

In law school I would often hit the range when I just couldn't do anymore work or needed to blow off some steam. It sucked when I got to a course to find out it was closed for a tournament and now my one free hour was shot.

 

However, there is nothing worse than showing up for a tournament prepared to go through your routine only to find the limited range space taken by people out for a Sunday bucket digging trenches in the range.

 

Course made a decision and I believe it was the right one.

[heavy_hitter]

This is my take as my kids compete in Junior Golf Tournaments. Most junior golfers are really good. They also play good money to play in tournaments. We get pissed when we show up and the range is a mess. The biggest thing is unprofessional divots. I yell at my kids when they do not make straight line divots. Not only is it better for the turf, it is courteous to the person using the range after you. Having to warm up with divots all over the range is unacceptable. The course was merely trying to keep the range in good condition for these kids to use.

[Thug Hunter]

This is my take as my kids compete in Junior Golf Tournaments. Most junior golfers are really good. They also play good money to play in tournaments. We get pissed when we show up and the range is a mess. The biggest thing is unprofessional divots. I yell at my kids when they do not make straight line divots. Not only is it better for the turf, it is courteous to the person using the range after you. Having to warm up with divots all over the range is unacceptable. The course was merely trying to keep the range in good condition for these kids to use.

 

Dad of the year comment right there folks!

 

I hate when I have to follow a 14 on the golf course. Mfer's are always digging up the tees boxes!

[tdelam]

Could be worse, could be snowing.

[S_Plate]

In case anyone was wondering, shot an 83, tourny hasn't even started

Lol I was in the tourney at deer ridge on Saturday went to roddy ranch to warm up

[rockinar]

I just got off work, my buddy makes a tee time for 7:30, I've been up since 8am yesterday and I head to the course to stay awake and hit some balls before we play.

 

The course we're playing doesn't have a driving range but, it's sister course across the street does. I head over there and no one is there. It's 6am on Saturday!!!!

 

When they finally open up, no hello, no good morning, just a "do you have a tee time?". I said no just want to hit some balls. Guy says can't do it because they have a junior tourny at 10. I was floored. That is 4 hours from now.

 

Courses wonder why they are having trouble staying open???

 

Is that garbage Barry? It sure is Other Barry, it sure is.

 

I'm confused. They can't stay open because they won't let you hit a bucket?

[BIG STU]

This is my take as my kids compete in Junior Golf Tournaments. Most junior golfers are really good. They also play good money to play in tournaments. We get pissed when we show up and the range is a mess. The biggest thing is unprofessional divots. I yell at my kids when they do not make straight line divots. Not only is it better for the turf, it is courteous to the person using the range after you. Having to warm up with divots all over the range is unacceptable. The course was merely trying to keep the range in good condition for these kids to use.

Man you would have a coronary around here and it is not the kids it is the tourist hacks--

[TheGeekGolfer]

I think this thread should be re-titled to, "why posters stay away or leave online forums"... this thing got really ugly, really fast!

 

OP - Should the range have been open, yeah, I can see your point, Given that they asked if you had a tee-time, I can see even more of your point.

 

Counter-point. Maybe they were going to setup on the range for a special demo-day or lessons before the tournament? Maybe they thought if you started hitting balls, then if others from the 'sister course' saw someone hitting balls, they would expect to hit balls also. Which, they didn't plan on because of the tournament?

 

See, no name calling, no 'think of someone other than yourself', no bullying, can't we all just get along.

[TheGeekGolfer]

In my opinion though, any course that actually charges for range balls if you're playing a round should go out of business. It's the same as a hotel resort fee, both suck.

 

I feel it's petty to charge a guy who just paid $60 for his round, $5 for range balls to warm up. I'd like to agree with you that they should close, but that would eliminate 75% of the local courses. Nearly all of them squeeze you for the $4-5 before the round to hit 30 balls.

Yes, and it's petty to charge $8 for a drink after you've paid $50 for your steak dinner. Some courses choose one model (free range warm up balls), others charge because of the extra maintenance. There are valid business reasons both ways. Play the course that works for you.

[duffer987]

In case anyone was wondering, shot an 83, tourny hasn't even started

Lol I was in the tourney at deer ridge on Saturday went to roddy ranch to warm up

 

This. If you were there 90mins before your tee time you could easily have gone to Roddy or Brentwood GC to warm up, each of them is about 5 mins down the road from Deer Ridge/Shadow Lakes.

 

As far as people asking why would they ask if he had a tee-time, when the course was closed for a Jr Tourney, I'd assume they were asking in regards to Shadow Lake's Sister course Deer Ridge - where the OP was actually playing. Had the OP simple said, yes I do have a tee time at Deer Ridge in an hour, instead of saying no, this all could have gone differently. Shadow Lakes is also only open on 'select days' (after initially saying they were closing it full stop), so that odd set up may also have contributed to the confusion.

 

Of course even if they still said no, as above, two other courses around the corner with ranges.

[Mschumacher]

My Dad ran a public daily fee course for 20 years. It was a 9 hole regulation course and 9 hole par 3 course. Now we had our weekend morning regulars 2 seperate groups of at least 20 players each. They were there every Saturday and Sunday morning unless the weather was bad. They were the bread and butter of the operation. Then through out the morning you had various regulars. My old man accomondated everyone for him it was not so much about money but people and the love of the game. I have seen folks like singles come in and he would pair them up with someone. He had a guy come in one day and the old man told him I can pair you up in about an hour with the Jones group in the meantime free of charge play the Par 3 course as much as you like and when they get here I will send someone to get you and pair you up. He would bend over backwards to help ANY customer and expected the same of the staff. Yep most of the people working at courses here would last with him about 15 minutes the way they treat customers. I have also seen him tell walk up customers we are stacked today and there is no way I can get you off this morning but play our Par 3 free of charge or you can go to the bottom of the hill about a 1/2 mile away to our range and hit balls free of charge. If you are still there and we get an opening I will send someone to get you. He was a people's person so to speak. That course even though it was only 9 holes made money the whole time he ran it. When he retired it went through several leases and finally closed there are condos and a shopping center on it now.

 

Your dad's a stand up guy. What happened to customer service these days? Its no wonder you see so many brick & mortar shops go belly up.

[buckeyefl]

I think this thread should be re-titled to, "why posters stay away or leave online forums"... this thing got really ugly, really fast!

 

OP - Should the range have been open, yeah, I can see your point, Given that they asked if you had a tee-time, I can see even more of your point.

 

Counter-point. Maybe they were going to setup on the range for a special demo-day or lessons before the tournament? Maybe they thought if you started hitting balls, then if others from the 'sister course' saw someone hitting balls, they would expect to hit balls also. Which, they didn't plan on because of the tournament?

 

See, no name calling, no 'think of someone other than yourself', no bullying, can't we all just get along.

 

Out of curiosity why should the range have been open? You gave several reasona why it shouldn't in your counterpoint but no real reason why it should.

[Other Barry]

The initial post is like a Rohrchach test - there is too little information to paint the complete picture, so we (including the OP) are trying to make judgements when we really don't know what was going on. First off, who knows who the employee is that the OP was interacting with? Owner? Long time employee facility manager? Ranger? Since we don't know that, we don't know how representative of the course the OP's experience was. We don't know whether there was only the tournament, or other golf to be played at that course that day, including the mysterious "Do you have a tee time?" question. We don't know the range setup, including what the course might want the environment to be like for the tournament.

 

But then the OP doesn't know that information either, and is ready to write the obituary for golf businesses that won't open the range for a guy at 6 am when the course has a tournament scheduled that day and is not opening the range to the public that day (plenty of courses don't open their ranges to the public, even if they are a public course). Maybe just a teensy overreaction fueled by no sleep?

 

After having several days to think about it ( and catch up on sleep) I've come to this, ONCE AGAIN, never said THIS course, Shadow Lakes was closing because of this. Second, you are ABSOLUTELY right, I have no idea what there positions were for the course, I could have been talking to the buss boys but I wasn't. The three of them all worked in the club house to some capacity but I DO NOT know what they did.

I WAS SMOKED.... beyond tired, wrote the original post in my truck. I think the staff could have explained it a little better to me.

And yes, I still believe taking easy money, however small it may be, between the hours of 0600 to 0800 / 0900 is something I would have done were I the GM. As it is, I am not. Courses decision, I've moved on.

I think we can all agree people will see things differently, and it is very difficult to explain every detail, in a short post.

Personal shots.... are laughable. We (WRX'ers) will probably only meet a fraction of a percent of each other so its easy to call someone out over a key board.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

The initial post is like a Rohrchach test - there is too little information to paint the complete picture, so we (including the OP) are trying to make judgements when we really don't know what was going on. First off, who knows who the employee is that the OP was interacting with? Owner? Long time employee facility manager? Ranger? Since we don't know that, we don't know how representative of the course the OP's experience was. We don't know whether there was only the tournament, or other golf to be played at that course that day, including the mysterious "Do you have a tee time?" question. We don't know the range setup, including what the course might want the environment to be like for the tournament.

 

But then the OP doesn't know that information either, and is ready to write the obituary for golf businesses that won't open the range for a guy at 6 am when the course has a tournament scheduled that day and is not opening the range to the public that day (plenty of courses don't open their ranges to the public, even if they are a public course). Maybe just a teensy overreaction fueled by no sleep?

 

After having several days to think about it ( and catch up on sleep) I've come to this, ONCE AGAIN, never said THIS course, Shadow Lakes was closing because of this. Second, you are ABSOLUTELY right, I have no idea what there positions were for the course, I could have been talking to the buss boys but I wasn't. The three of them all worked in the club house to some capacity but I DO NOT know what they did.

I WAS SMOKED.... beyond tired, wrote the original post in my truck. I think the staff could have explained it a little better to me.

And yes, I still believe taking easy money, however small it may be, between the hours of 0600 to 0800 / 0900 is something I would have done were I the GM. As it is, I am not. Courses decision, I've moved on.

I think we can all agree people will see things differently, and it is very difficult to explain every detail, in a short post.

Personal shots.... are laughable. We (WRX'ers) will probably only meet a fraction of a percent of each other so its easy to call someone out over a key board.

 

Barry, you still were right, it's just that on WRX people like to pick apart everything. Taking you too literal "this is why golf courses close."

Sure one could argue about the range thing, but no one should argue that that you were greeted poorly and that is unacceptable. It costs a business zero, zilch, nada, to be friendly and welcoming to those that set foot on their property. Certainly a proper greeting like good morning would have been appropriate. Your experience doesn't make you say "wow, they are really friendly there" and make you want to come back.

[North Butte]

In my limited, mostly local experience, the friendliness of the staff at a public golf course seems to have a very limited effect on the number of rounds played there. The cost and location are the main thing. Especially cost. The condition of the course (most importantly the greens) is also a factor as is the overall quality of the layout. Sure everyone likes a friendly greeting and being treated courteously but it sure doesn't seem to translate into success or failure.

 

There's a thread going on about a couple of high-class clubs in Scotland that someone visited and found the members and staff to be incredibly condescending and unpleasant toward visitors. One of them was Muirfield which has had that reputation for decades and yet remains the #2 "must play", behind only The Old Course, for first-time Scotland golf tourists. Kind of the same thing, people might complain about being treated unpleasantly but it sure don't hurt the bottom line.

 

I think golf course operators have to really go overboard in treating customers poorly to have much effect, if it's an otherwise decent course at a decent price. And a course in poor condition or priced too high will suffer from lack of business no matter how warm-n-fuzzy the welcome in the pro shop.

[BillyZ2]

I always think that customer service and treating your customers respectfully should be at the forefront of every proprietor. With that being said, for those of you who think they should have let OP use the practice range, have you ever thought that they might be still in the process of getting the practice range setup for the tournament? They could have been picking up yesterday's golf balls, readjusting the tee location, or just any other preparation that would make it appropriate for the tournament. Yes it could have been poor customer relating, or they could be working on the Range as stated previously. I don't think everybody in here has all the facts to make a sound judgement.