The M1 440 is Long AND Forgiving, I'm Impressed!!

[dmeeksDC]

I am a little late to the party here. I've been waiting for over a month for the Epic I ordered. Just got word that it will not be shipping this week either. So, with the first driving range opening on Saturday, and course Monday, I am seriously considering cancelling the order out of principal.

 

Anyhow, I liked the M1 but thought it looked absolutely gigantic. Can anyone comment on launch and spin differences they saw from the 460 to the 440? I had last year's M2. I imagine the M1 460 is roughly as forgiving as that. Would the 440 be a huge decrease in forgiveness?

440 is better than last year's M1 in terms of forgiveness if you ask me. Granted that's not saying a ton, but it is certainly not the SLDR kind of punishment at all. As far as flight/spin with this years M1 and 440, the 440 is going to be noticeably lower spinning (different amounts for different people) and with every person I've seen hit this club their ball speeds have been 2-4 mph faster with the 440 over the '17 460. I would say get 1* higher loft than you'd get with the 460, I wish I had gotten 9.5* myself, and unless you're a crazy high spin guy you can probably get away with a much more forgiving shaft. I had the HZRDUS Black to start and it was insanely low spinning and not necessary at all, have since moved to the ATMOS Blue and it's a pure of a pairing as I have ever played.

 

I would be going with a 10.5. The Epic SZ I demoed weeks ago was really low spin too. I have an AD DI on hand in case I need a spinner shaft. I recently picked up a KK XT 60X and that thing feels amazing. I had a chance to try it out on a sim in my old M2 (traded it to a friend for some masonry work at my house). So, I have some options to work with on both ends of the launch/spin spectrum.

 

Did you happen to try the SZ against your M1 440?

 

I did hit these head to head and found the 440 is as low spin as the Epic SZ, very comparable, but I liked the 440 more. But I always like the look of the more compact, deeper faces. Head size, feel, sound all edges to the 440. I did not own last year's M1 -- hit it, did not like -- but have heard players say forgiveness of 440 is closer to the '16 M2, not the M1. I find it pretty forgiving. I was gaming a 2015 Nike Flex and it is hotter and more forgiving than that club. I got a 9.5 head (actual loft 10 degrees) and am going with a mid-launch, mid-spin shaft because it is a lower-spin head. I think shaft match is key with this head, but it's a great head. I will most likely play back weight two-thirds back. Easy to aim crown. Looks good at address.

[JJK947]

After owning and selling a tour issue 440 I have to say it's an excellent head. Forgiveness is on par with last years M1 460, I was actually surprised with how forgiving it was. Sound and feel were improved as well, also looks great at address. Mine was measured 9.0 degree and pretty square face angle as most of them seem to be. I like to open it up a click or two and that just made it too low spinning for me. Had no problem with launch like I did with SLDR 430 and M1 430 (not quite to the same extent). I'd say it launches true to the stamped loft, so pretty much what you would expect it to. I will be looking into a higher lofted head at some point because this driver has pretty much everything going for it.

 

Also, found this club performs drastically better with the rear weight all the way back (or at least most of the way). Changes the feel of impact and I could discern a noticeable increase in forgiveness on slight mishits. With the weight forward anything not out of the dead middle felt like garbage. Just my opinion anyway. This is the best head they've made in a long time once dialed in properly. Just takes more effort to do so with the smaller, lower spinning heads.

[Granthamjc]

After my frustrations with the new Matrix Black Tie and putting my older matrix black tie in my new 440 and still not being happy I put a Kuro Kage Silver Tini 60 cut to 45 that I had in my closet in just to try and the club came alive. Long straight drives about 270-275. Pulled the back weight 2/3s of the way back and it seemed to help even more, more forgiving and just seems better balanced. I am going to keep my 2016 M1 460 with the black tie as a backup, but for now this will be my gamer.

[mootrail]

I put (in) a Kuro Kage Silver Tini 60 cut to 45 ...the club came alive.

 

The best shaft I've played in years. Mine's at 45" in a M1 430, awesome.

[KonaV821]

Just picked up a m1 440 9.5 yesterday. Feels much better than 2016m2. I have a GD M9003 7X and it's an absolute bomber. Went from ~2500 rpm spin with my 2016 M2 to ~2000 rpm with this head. I was also surprised that it was just as forgiving as my 2016 M2

[Clael415]

I also picked up mine yesterday with the Hzrdus yellow shaft. To out the change into perspective, my srixon 545 was spinning at 3700 with about a 9 launch angle, average carry about 235-240. M1 was spinning 2500 with 12 launch and average carry about 260 rolling out to 275. Still not quite optimal numbers but that is because of my swing, but it is a huge difference.

[OspreyCI]

So the 2017 M1 440 is AS forgiving as the 2016 M2?

[FargoRC]

I haven't played a sub 460cc driver since the Cleveland TL310, which I really liked. Thinking about going back to a somewhat smaller driver and I really like the look of this driver. I actually thought about the 430 last year but passed due to the lack of forgiveness. I did hit the M2 a number of times and liked it, if it is really close to that level of forgiveness I would be very happy.

 

Seems like this could be a solid club paired with the Kuro Kage Silver Dual-Core TiNi shaft, kind of worried the Hzrdus yellow might be too low spinning.

 

How does the 440 perform if you miss towards the toe?

[JJPIV]

I haven't played a sub 460cc driver since the Cleveland TL310, which I really liked. Thinking about going back to a somewhat smaller driver and I really like the look of this driver. I actually thought about the 430 last year but passed due to the lack of forgiveness. I did hit the M2 a number of times and liked it, if it is really close to that level of forgiveness I would be very happy.

 

Seems like this could be a solid club paired with the Kuro Kage Silver Dual-Core TiNi shaft, kind of worried the Hzrdus yellow might be too low spinning.

 

How does the 440 perform if you miss towards the toe?

 

I really like the size, it gives me more confidence than most of the other drivers I looked at this year.

 

My miss is towards the toe, and I don't notice much distance loss. Hit it on the heel and I get a playable heel cut that has noticeable distance loss, but it is in play. Little high on the toe side and I have been really surprised with how good it turns out. I have definitely hits some shots that I didn't like the contact but loved the results.

[gambit]

So the 2017 M1 440 is AS forgiving as the 2016 M2?

 

Not as forgiving, but I'd say it's pretty close. I have both of those heads at 9.5 upped to 10.25. 2016 M2 is a little more forgiving, but the M1 440 is longer for sure.

 

I haven't played a sub 460cc driver since the Cleveland TL310, which I really liked. Thinking about going back to a somewhat smaller driver and I really like the look of this driver. I actually thought about the 430 last year but passed due to the lack of forgiveness. I did hit the M2 a number of times and liked it, if it is really close to that level of forgiveness I would be very happy.

 

Seems like this could be a solid club paired with the Kuro Kage Silver Dual-Core TiNi shaft, kind of worried the Hzrdus yellow might be too low spinning.

 

How does the 440 perform if you miss towards the toe?

 

I really like the size, it gives me more confidence than most of the other drivers I looked at this year.

 

My miss is towards the toe, and I don't notice much distance loss. Hit it on the heel and I get a playable heel cut that has noticeable distance loss, but it is in play. Little high on the toe side and I have been really surprised with how good it turns out. I have definitely hits some shots that I didn't like the contact but loved the results.

 

This.

[dmeeksDC]

I haven't played a sub 460cc driver since the Cleveland TL310, which I really liked. Thinking about going back to a somewhat smaller driver and I really like the look of this driver. I actually thought about the 430 last year but passed due to the lack of forgiveness. I did hit the M2 a number of times and liked it, if it is really close to that level of forgiveness I would be very happy.

 

Seems like this could be a solid club paired with the Kuro Kage Silver Dual-Core TiNi shaft, kind of worried the Hzrdus yellow might be too low spinning.

 

How does the 440 perform if you miss towards the toe?

 

I often miss toward the toe with my patented "don't finish the backswing and bring it hard over the top" move, and I found it still gave me playable shots. In general, it's a face best struck high middle, but it has some depth so you can get away with more. I am going to put some impact tape on mine and take a look next time I hit it. You know, a lot of guys rave about that Hzrdus Yellow shaft, but the Kuro Kage Silver Tini you mention is the one that, with this head at least, probably fits more players in terms of being the best marriage of launch and spin. I can get a little negative on angle of attack and I think the 440 helps reduce that spin, but it is also good for me to have a mid-lauch shaft that saves me from low line drives. I have it presently paired with a Diamana B Series 60x, at 44.75 inches, and the Diamana is similar to the KK in being a mid-mid shaft. I like shafts with mid-torque feel, too. So to me, of the stock shafts with the 440, the Kuro Kage is the safest choice if you are worried about too little spin.

[drbonesvt]

Conducted some more testing

 

 

Out of M1 460 / M2 etc, SB Epic , Epic - M1 440 feels the best out of the box.

 

The 440 is def easier to hit than last years 430 offering

 

Spin is IMOP 300-400 lower than the other M1/2 offerings , those who have a positive AOA , its boarder line too low spin IMOP, less your bringing 120+

 

 

Settled on speeder VC 8.1x vs the AD DI 8x , dispersion is the tightest , the Ad DI 8x ultimately provided the longest numbers but not quite there with the accuracy , off center toward the toe is where I'm most impressed with this head

 

Added 5 grams of hotmelt , with brought the head to 205 and with the speeder , swing weight was wayyyyyy too heavy , like D8 @ 44.75"

 

Swapped some weights and its sitting at D4.5 with 5 grams of hotmelt, sucker is heavy off the rack , 440

 

Most impressed testing the M2 , the forgiveness, now may not work for everyone , I hit up on it 2-3* spin anywhere from 2000-2350 , with the speeder 8.1x , BIGGEST KEY, i first started hitting it, thought it sounded and felt terrible , put two piece of lead tape and did wonders for the head feel and sound.

 

#lovethelead

[DPackers]

Where did you swap the weights? Been looking for aftermarket weights?

[Jack Pearsall]

looks like a dodge truck

[drbonesvt]

Where did you swap the weights? Been looking for aftermarket weights?

 

Only knocked down 5g, guys at the shop gave me a bunch of heads and a scale , and I went to weighing all the components, and picked

[DLaake]

I haven't played a sub 460cc driver since the Cleveland TL310, which I really liked. Thinking about going back to a somewhat smaller driver and I really like the look of this driver. I actually thought about the 430 last year but passed due to the lack of forgiveness. I did hit the M2 a number of times and liked it, if it is really close to that level of forgiveness I would be very happy.

 

Seems like this could be a solid club paired with the Kuro Kage Silver Dual-Core TiNi shaft, kind of worried the Hzrdus yellow might be too low spinning.

 

How does the 440 perform if you miss towards the toe?

 

I really like the size, it gives me more confidence than most of the other drivers I looked at this year.

 

My miss is towards the toe, and I don't notice much distance loss. Hit it on the heel and I get a playable heel cut that has noticeable distance loss, but it is in play. Little high on the toe side and I have been really surprised with how good it turns out. I have definitely hits some shots that I didn't like the contact but loved the results.

 

^

[Hubijerk]

I've got a little bit more time with this driver and its the best driver I've ever used. I played today in 20mph winds and I have never hit drives that were less affected directionally by wind. Plenty forgiving, very low spin. I have this paired with a Kuro Kage XM TX and the combo seems absurdly good. I hit some drives with a kiyoshi black, and a Tini silver and both proved to be pretty demanding launch wise. I could probably hit the ball farther with those shafts but the XM/440 combo was very forgiving, launching mid and spinning low while still allowing me to get it high when I have the wind... I was getting flightscope spin numbers in the low 2000's in neutral with the XM. For the course I moved the weight more forward, and the launch and spin combo with the XM is outstanding.

 

I used a 16' M2 for awhile and my only complaint was that it spun/launched too high. The 440 reminds me of the best things I liked with the M2 while spinning way less. So in short, I'm using more loft and a more forgiving shaft, and I'm getting 2000ish rpm spin (maybe less) with a head that seems to be as forgiving as the M2 from last year.

[TRheezy]

I have had my 440 for about a month now. Last year I played a 460 M1 (8.5) with the stock HZRDUS Black 6.5 74G shaft @45.5in with the back weight in the forward position and the front weight in the middle. For the most part I would hit it pretty straight, but sometimes when it got breezy I would get a little balloon action. On the monitors I would get 2200-2400 spin. Current setup is the 440 TI (8.8, 2*open) with the Elements Platinum Proto 6F5 @ 45in with the back weight in the rear position and the forward weight 2 clicks to the fade setting. This thing has a super penetrating flight, haven't been able to get on the monitor, but I am sure that it is much lower spin due to the rollout and no ballooning compared to my old driver. It has already started paying for itself, won a $340 skin last week and won my first tournament over the weekend.

[darrickpe]

getting ready to order 440 w/hzrdus black 75 6.5.... problem is do I trust TM with the standard tipping 1" or PX recommending str8 in? Anybody experiment with this setup and can comment on the difference???? How much will that tipping affect spin/launch #'s?

[Homerun2Birdie]

getting ready to order 440 w/hzrdus black 75 6.5.... problem is do I trust TM with the standard tipping 1" or PX recommending str8 in? Anybody experiment with this setup and can comment on the difference???? How much will that tipping affect spin/launch #'s?

I originally had a 440 with the Black 75 6.5 and I elected to have it tipped the TM standard 1" - First off the shaft doesn't have much feel to start so tipping it any amount certainly isn't helping the cause. Feel aside I was around 2200-2400 RPM in my Mizuno JPX 900 with a VC 7.2 TS, so I incorrectly assumed I would be in that ball park here. I couldn't get this combination above 1800 RPM with a 117-120 swing speed. The 440 is extraordinarily low spinning, so unless you struggle mightily from spin issues I wouldn't tip it at all, and perhaps consider selecting a different shaft all together.

[darrickpe]

getting ready to order 440 w/hzrdus black 75 6.5.... problem is do I trust TM with the standard tipping 1" or PX recommending str8 in? Anybody experiment with this setup and can comment on the difference???? How much will that tipping affect spin/launch #'s?

I originally had a 440 with the Black 75 6.5 and I elected to have it tipped the TM standard 1" - First off the shaft doesn't have much feel to start so tipping it any amount certainly isn't helping the cause. Feel aside I was around 2200-2400 RPM in my Mizuno JPX 900 with a VC 7.2 TS, so I incorrectly assumed I would be in that ball park here. I couldn't get this combination above 1800 RPM with a 117-120 swing speed. The 440 is extraordinarily low spinning, so unless you struggle mightily from spin issues I wouldn't tip it at all, and perhaps consider selecting a different shaft all together.

 

I'm gaming the 16' M1460 757Evo ts and i battle high launch (16-17*) mid-high 2k spin rates. got a hold of a 440 and really like it and was getting 16* launch with 18-22k RPM with a rogue silver. Been hearing good things about the HZRDUS just cant seem to locate the fitter that has everything(this included). curious what others may have experienced... Thanks for your input

[Buddy5z]

460 I play tour issue and no complaints!

[Buddy5z]

460 I play tour issue and no complaints!

[Hubijerk]

getting ready to order 440 w/hzrdus black 75 6.5.... problem is do I trust TM with the standard tipping 1" or PX recommending str8 in? Anybody experiment with this setup and can comment on the difference???? How much will that tipping affect spin/launch #'s?

 

I usually tip 1/2" going into adapters. Unless you're a monster the black in 6.5 is going to be a handful in this head.

[tssgj65]

Does anyone have the back weight set in the forward position any?

 

I'm finding this head can get pretty wild with the weight forward and when I move it to the back half of the track it really calms it down some.

 

I have always been a high spin player. Mine is all the way forward. Love this head! Launches and tips over fast, and hits the ground running. Even my miss hits end up fine, just off line.

[Homerun2Birdie]

This head continues to blow me away - I am well past the honeymoon phase and I actually like it more now than when I first bagged it. Having the right shaft goes a long way into getting the most out of this head as well.

[darrickpe]

This head continues to blow me away - I am well past the honeymoon phase and I actually like it more now than when I first bagged it. Having the right shaft goes a long way into getting the most out of this head as well.

Which shaft did you decide on?

[Homerun2Birdie]

This head continues to blow me away - I am well past the honeymoon phase and I actually like it more now than when I first bagged it. Having the right shaft goes a long way into getting the most out of this head as well.

Which shaft did you decide on?

Had the HZRDUS Black initially because I didn't know how incredibly low spinning the head was, made the move to the ATMOS Blue and it's night and day.

[drbonesvt]

Anyone put both weights in the front and split ?

[drbonesvt]

Anyone put both weights in the front and split ?

 

 

Side note on my weights , they are only 12 g vs the 15 that come in the 440, with 5 gram of hot melt in the head

 

So I moved both weights to the front and extended toward the heel and toe

 

Bottom line makes the head even more forgiving

 

OTher performance notes , spin went up some as the weight forward lessened my AOA, from 2-3 to about .05-1, which is nice because I'd rather work that up than vs sometime getting too extreme on the AOA. Spins was around ~2400 rpm @ roughly .5 to 1* + AOA

 

Biggest difference was dispersion, head was already better over last years 430, but the 440 was forgiving for the smaller option , this makes it even more forgiving , very tight dispersion