ANA rules issue (Merged)

[dmonaco19]

So I see a lot of frustration at the LPGA.... what did they do wrong? Nothing. Trust me, they didn't want to make that call, they were obligated to.

 

People should be allowed to call in, I don't understand why any player would be against it. It protects the field. The person calling in didn't give the penalty, the LPGA took the info, reviewed it, and made the correct decision as soon as they could.

 

I know your thinking I'm the person who called in. I'm not. Actually when I was watching last night I was pretty upset. My daughter thinks golf is stupid and I was blown away by a penalty be assessed a day later.

 

Now I am wondering why you need to mark a 10 inch putt anyway.

 

 

 

 

[boggyman]

Just a dumb move on her part bar none! She's a professional and knows better than that. It's obvious the ball was moved from the original spot! Yes, it's sad the "armchair" officiating crew caught it and the penalties accessed a day late, but it is what it is! Let it slide and next thing you know they'll be moving it in bad lie situations when they think on one is looking. Fur crying out loud, it was a tap in! Tap it in an keep moving!

[deadsolid...shank]

So I see a lot of frustration at the LPGA.... what did they do wrong? Nothing. Trust me, they didn't want to make that call, they were obligated to.

 

People should be allowed to call in, I don't understand why any player would be against it. It protects the field. The person calling in didn't give the penalty, the LPGA took the info, reviewed it, and made the correct decision as soon as they could.

 

I know your thinking I'm the person who called in. I'm not. Actually when I was watching last night I was pretty upset. My daughter thinks golf is stupid and I was blown away by a penalty be assessed a day later.

 

Now I am wondering why you need to mark a 10 inch putt anyway.

 

Again, it's their tournament. They're not obligated to do anything. Just like the Masters with Tiger.

 

I'm curious, where was Whan when all this was going on?

[Nessism]

So I see a lot of frustration at the LPGA.... what did they do wrong? Nothing. Trust me, they didn't want to make that call, they were obligated to.

 

People should be allowed to call in, I don't understand why any player would be against it. It protects the field. The person calling in didn't give the penalty, the LPGA took the info, reviewed it, and made the correct decision as soon as they could.

 

 

Negative. The LPGA isn't obligated to investigate every single possible rules violation alerted to them by third parties and they shouldn't. Someone actively went to the TV network and asked for the tape so they could review the incident. Pure BS for an infraction that was not egregious and provided no advantage.

[djmohab2]

My question is, why the hell is she replacing the ball to the side of the marker when she marked from behind the ball? It's a difference of maybe an inch or two, but it leaves you wide open to this type of ruling because it would be extremely obvious on video. I won't accuse her of cheating, but how do you not know to replace the ball in relation to the marker in the same position as you marked it?

 

And for those saying the rules need to be relaxed and citing Tiger at 15 at Augusta. He admitted in his post-round interview he dropped two yards behind his original spot so that he wouldn't clatter the pin again. As soon as he said that, I knew he was in for a host of hurt. Why was everyone confused by his penalty there?

[legitimategolf]

This is a call to action as I see it.

 

We need to grow the ranks of LPGA viewers.

 

People in this thread have been implying that So Yeon Ryu, if we were to scrutinize the footage of her shots, would likely be found to have breached the rules at some point or another too.

 

Well talk is cheap! The more LPGA viewers we have, the better we can scrutinize footage and catch all possible players (such as So Yeon Ryu) in the act of breaking rules. It's too late now to change the outcome of this tournament, but maybe next time, if we all join forces and make sure to tune in, we'll be ready.

[Ghost of Snead]

Watch in the actual video this morning. It almost looks like she kind of mismarked (not rules wise) the ball. Put it more to the side of instread of directly behind the ball. Then we she replaced it she put it down with the mark directly behind. Where it probably should have been originally.

 

Looks like a brain fart in the heat of the moment.

 

I can guarantee every competitor in the tournament at some point did not place the ball EXACTLY where they marked it every time - whether it be by a millimeter, centimeter, whatever. Some slide their coin slightly under the ball and some drop it so the edge would touch a perpendicular line dropped from the edge of the ball. Do they always replace it the same way ?

 

Highly doubtful ...

[Gnomesteel]

So I see a lot of frustration at the LPGA.... what did they do wrong? Nothing. Trust me, they didn't want to make that call, they were obligated to.

 

People should be allowed to call in, I don't understand why any player would be against it. It protects the field. The person calling in didn't give the penalty, the LPGA took the info, reviewed it, and made the correct decision as soon as they could.

 

I know your thinking I'm the person who called in. I'm not. Actually when I was watching last night I was pretty upset. My daughter thinks golf is stupid and I was blown away by a penalty be assessed a day later.

 

Now I am wondering why you need to mark a 10 inch putt anyway.

 

 

Ha! Protecting the field. Now that's a joke. This has already damaged the LPGA and will likely get worse. There's no digging out of this hole. They just publicly humiliated themselves AND put themselves between the fans and one of the biggest upcoming stars in the game. This is a mistake they'll live with for years.

[North Texas]

Kendra Graham on Morning Drive this morning trying to play up how terrific it is that the rule change allowed her to not be DQ'ed.

 

Talk about grasping at straws to justify it.

 

The guy from the USGA was on there saying the same thing too. It's sickening that none of them can just stand up and say that this isn't the intent of letting people call in.

 

Thomas Pagel was the guy from the USGA. If you noticed, neither he nor Kendra Graham ever answered any of the questions directly. I hate when people do that.

[deadsolid...shank]

Watch in the actual video this morning. It almost looks like she kind of mismarked (not rules wise) the ball. Put it more to the side of instread of directly behind the ball. Then we she replaced it she put it down with the mark directly behind. Where it probably should have been originally.

 

Looks like a brain fart in the heat of the moment.

 

I can guarantee every competitor in the tournament at some point did not place the ball EXACTLY where they marked it every time - whether it be by a millimeter, centimeter, whatever. Some slide their coin slightly under the ball and some drop it so the edge would touch a perpendicular line dropped from the edge of the ball. Do they always replace it the same way ?

 

Highly doubtful ...

 

100% agree.

[North Texas]

People are talking about the viewer input as if it from a person who knows nothing about golf, and/or the rules of golf. The reality is that person knows more about the rules of golf than 90% of the people k this thread. As I suspected initially, it was not some schmoe calling it in.

 

Sucks for Lexi and I feel for her, but was it a penalty or not? It would be worse in my mind if a major was won by a player who clearly broke a rule and should have been penalized. I prefer that golf be far different from other sports in that regard. No tournamnet committe wants that I'd guess.

 

Putting a rules official with every group watching every player isn't practical and then we would hear about how much slower everything is

Tough situation.

 

Did I miss something in the previous 15 pages? You seem to be saying that you know who it was that sent the email. Is that correct?

[legitimategolf]

So I see a lot of frustration at the LPGA.... what did they do wrong? Nothing. Trust me, they didn't want to make that call, they were obligated to.

 

People should be allowed to call in, I don't understand why any player would be against it. It protects the field. The person calling in didn't give the penalty, the LPGA took the info, reviewed it, and made the correct decision as soon as they could.

 

Negative. The LPGA isn't obligated to investigate every single possible rules violation alerted to them by third parties and they shouldn't. Someone actively went to the TV network and asked for the tape so they could review the incident. Pure BS for an infraction that was not egregious and provided no advantage.

 

I think the general dictum in ALL golf competition, is that they must use all available information to make judgments. That footage of Lexi's improper marking is public record, and incriminating enough to where they felt they had no choice. If they hadn't made the ruling some knucklehead would probably circulate the video clip of Lexi and it'd keep floating out there forever.

 

Both scenarios are PR nightmares for the LPGA. Had to be an agonizing decision. I am guessing that given the choice between being seen as draconian and cruel, or being seen as lax and casual with regards to rules... there was only one real choice.

[Jagpilotohio]

Lpga link that the "fan" used to email about the infraction.

 

Send the LPGA a little message to tell them how you feel about their stupidity. I did.

 

http://www.lpga.com/contact-us/feedback

[ode1]

I agree, however she replaced the ball horribly and should have been penalized. Surprised nobody saw it earlier.

 

The rest of it is simply(bad) rules, allowing external officials to make calls, etc....but nobody playing that tournament

Is ignorant that marking your ball and replacing that sloppily is a penalty.

 

I believe the end of each round should be the acceptance of all scores, unless something egregious is done.

 

BTW has there been any other views of Lexi marking putts to see what her norm is??

 

A lot of people saw it when it happened live.....They simply chose not to call it in. Interesting on how they only receive 1 contact on this....It really speaks to how people don't phone in or contact when they think there is a rules infraction. It's not the core of the problem here....The rule itself is the issue.

[North Texas]

So I see a lot of frustration at the LPGA.... what did they do wrong? Nothing. Trust me, they didn't want to make that call, they were obligated to.

 

People should be allowed to call in, I don't understand why any player would be against it. It protects the field. The person calling in didn't give the penalty, the LPGA took the info, reviewed it, and made the correct decision as soon as they could.

 

Negative. The LPGA isn't obligated to investigate every single possible rules violation alerted to them by third parties and they shouldn't. Someone actively went to the TV network and asked for the tape so they could review the incident. Pure BS for an infraction that was not egregious and provided no advantage.

 

I think the general dictum in ALL golf competition, is that they must use all available information to make judgments. That footage of Lexi's improper marking is public record, and incriminating enough to where they felt they had no choice. If they hadn't made the ruling some knucklehead would probably circulate the video clip of Lexi and it'd keep floating out there forever.

 

Both scenarios are PR nightmares for the LPGA. Had to be an agonizing decision. I am guessing that given the choice between being seen as draconian and cruel, or being seen as lax and casual with regards to rules... there was only one real choice.

 

When you take all of the emotion out of it, this is a very good summation of the situation.

 

And I pulled like hell for Lexi to win.

[Sniperman]

I haven't read all 19 pages of discussion, but I'm curious whether these arm chair judges truly act fairly? Would they have made the call if Ms Thompson was at the bottom of the leaderboard?

 

One thing for sure, professional tournaments should not allow arm chair judges to call in infractions. By allowing so, it shows their lack of control of officiating the tournament.

[MountainGoat]

There is a piece of this story that's not getting told, and it's the identity of the emailer. I can't believe that the LPGA did this in response to a random email from a couch potato. The fact that they felt they had to respond suggests that the emailer was someone of consequence, either a high-ranking rules official in the USGA or someone influential in the sponsorship chain for a competing player. Otherwise, who would know if the LPGA took action or, for that matter, even saw the email in time to take action?

[deadsolid...shank]

I would really like to know where the commissioner was while this was going on. Was he at the tournament? I would really like to hear his take on the situation. Because the LPGA got a black eye from this.

 

Someone somewhere in all these posts hit the nail on the head though. The LPGA is really lucky with the timing. Being Masters week this will quickly fall to the wayside.

[Bomber_11]

So I see a lot of frustration at the LPGA.... what did they do wrong? Nothing. Trust me, they didn't want to make that call, they were obligated to.

 

People should be allowed to call in, I don't understand why any player would be against it. It protects the field. The person calling in didn't give the penalty, the LPGA took the info, reviewed it, and made the correct decision as soon as they could.

 

I know your thinking I'm the person who called in. I'm not. Actually when I was watching last night I was pretty upset. My daughter thinks golf is stupid and I was blown away by a penalty be assessed a day later.

 

Now I am wondering why you need to mark a 10 inch putt anyway.

 

People should absolutely not be allowed to call in. Is it fair to say Lexi Thompson gets more camera time than other competitors? If so, then she is subject to additional scrutiny vs others.

 

I'd also venture to say plenty of other rule infractions happened off camera, where some couch potato slob couldn't catch it because it wasn't recorded.

[warfelg]

Kendra Graham on Morning Drive this morning trying to play up how terrific it is that the rule change allowed her to not be DQ'ed.

 

Talk about grasping at straws to justify it.

 

The guy from the USGA was on there saying the same thing too. It's sickening that none of them can just stand up and say that this isn't the intent of letting people call in.

 

Thomas Pagel was the guy from the USGA. If you noticed, neither he nor Kendra Graham ever answered any of the questions directly. I hate when people do that.

 

Thanks on the name assist. I dunno why I blanked when I've met the guy a few times.

 

Yea, they both hid behind the rule books and were clearly avoiding giving their own opinion. I think if they were speaking openly they both would have said it was silly to assess both penalties on her. Mostly taking from their tone of voice with (paraphrasing) "that's the rules and it's unfortunate".

[wmblake2000]

Three things.

 

1. She birdied the next hole after being told as she was crying. Wow.

 

2. This ruling was absurd and the enforcement of observation by viewers has to to stop. Also once a new round begins all previous scores are final.

 

3. Somewhere in the round I thought I saw Lexi mark a ball from the side. I thought at the time this was odd but don't think it showed her replacing the ball. She needs to stop doing that. It can only cause problems.

 

 

[jt2gt]

Not sure if anyone else that works closely with pro golf or has friends on tour can chime in, but it's my understanding that there are players on various tours that have a reputation for doing this consistently -- either moving their ball forward a noticeable amount or to the side when replacing it. Whether by habit or worse....it pisses other players off, but doesn't get called out. I wonder if this will lead to others getting called out on this rules infraction.

[jonsnow]

I agree, however she replaced the ball horribly and should have been penalized. Surprised nobody saw it earlier.

 

The rest of it is simply(bad) rules, allowing external officials to make calls, etc....but nobody playing that tournament

Is ignorant that marking your ball and replacing that sloppily is a penalty.

 

I believe the end of each round should be the acceptance of all scores, unless something egregious is done.

 

BTW has there been any other views of Lexi marking putts to see what her norm is??

 

A lot of people saw it when it happened live.....They simply chose not to call it in. Interesting on how they only receive 1 contact on this....It really speaks to how people don't phone in or contact when they think there is a rules infraction. It's not the core of the problem here....The rule itself is the issue.

 

Which rule? The penalty for not replacing the ball correctly or the penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard? Or both?

[Hogan's Cardy]

Just stupid. 4 shot penalty for that? If she got 1 shot penalty for that misstake, but 4? Golf really is a silly stupid game sometimes. I don't care that someone call it in. That's not the problem. The problem is the ruling. People who can't see that a 4 shot penalty is absurd are just blind. Also, what would happen if we watched ice hockey and all of the sudden the other team got a goal dismissed in the end of the game becuse someone call in on a high stick prior to a goal from the first period. No it wouldn't happen becuse ice hockey is a sport. If golf want to be a sport and not just some silly game, s*** like this needs to end.

 

Rules are rules. End of. Stop moaning

 

Rules are indeed rules but when events occur that reveal them to be ridiculous & harmful to the game maybe it's a good idea to have a bit of a moan so that they can be changed for the better? Or are we as a species just a subserviant group of walkovers who'll put up with anything without a fuss? That's now 2 majors blighted by rules infringements in 10 months, it shouldn't be the focus.

 

I hope they do fix the armchair caller problem, the coverage of golf is not like other sports and naturally those at the sharp end receive the bulk of airtime. It's not proportionate to the whole field and it should be left to tournament officals, players and caddies to deal with this stuff. Frankly anyone who calls in should be embarrassed to get involved with it.

 

This is my problem with letting people call in. So now we know that Lexi did that, but what is Ryu did something Friday that was worthy of a penalty? She wasn't near the lead on Friday so no one could spot something on her.

 

This one bothers me much much more than any other one. They responded to an email that came in 24 hours after the infraction happened. They shouldn't have nailed her with the 4 stroke IMO. That was in poor taste by the LPGA IMO. And all the LPGA had to do to make that part ok, was state that she was assessed the 2 shot penalty because of playing from a different spot, but explain that because the infraction notification came from an outside source and since a new round had started in that time, no wrong scorecard penalty would be assessed.

 

That part just bothers me so much. Ugh just makes me sick to my stomach.

 

So hang on....if u was in 2nd place and u found out that the person who won has broken a rule which would have caused you to win, would that be ok?

 

The rule was broken so what happened was correct

 

If I managed to win due to someone being punished twice for the same offence it would feel like a very hollow victory and not really one I'd savour or remember (for the right reasons anyway). Let alone if it had only come to light if a nearby dog walker had magically captured the moment on their phone and then informed the club the next day.

 

I fear your search for a simple solution to a complex issue is rather misplaced as is your confidence that a matter can be closed by a forum post that concludes "end of".

[Nessism]

 

I think the general dictum in ALL golf competition, is that they must use all available information to make judgments. That footage of Lexi's improper marking is public record, and incriminating enough to where they felt they had no choice. If they hadn't made the ruling some knucklehead would probably circulate the video clip of Lexi and it'd keep floating out there forever.

 

Both scenarios are PR nightmares for the LPGA. Had to be an agonizing decision. I am guessing that given the choice between being seen as draconian and cruel, or being seen as lax and casual with regards to rules... there was only one real choice.

 

Incorrect. By choosing to review and penalizing Lexi the LPGA put themselves and the game in a much worse situation than if they had done nothing. The outcry here is case in point. About 90% of the people responding in the threads about this incident are saying the LPGA got it wrong, and GoflWRX is one of the biggest fansites on the planet.

[A.G. Pennypacker]

Three things.

 

1. She birdied the next hole after being told as she was crying. Wow.

 

2. This ruling was absurd and the enforcement of observation by viewers has to to stop. Also once a new round begins all previous scores are final.

 

3. Somewhere in the round I thought I saw Lexi mark a ball from the side. I thought at the time this was odd but don't think it showed her replacing the ball. She needs to stop doing that. It can only cause problems.

 

Agreed with all of these points.

 

 

 

 

It's insane that viewers can call in things like this, and the LPGA acts on it. Complete pettiness to enforce this.

 

This is one reason the sport is shrinking - what kid is going to think it's fun to play a game that can be ruined by some inconsequential technicality?

[jonsnow]

Not sure if anyone else that works closely with pro golf or has friends on tour can chime in, but it's my understanding that there are players on various tours that have a reputation for doing this consistently -- either moving their ball forward a noticeable amount or to the side when replacing it. Whether by habit or worse....it pisses other players off, but doesn't get called out. I wonder if this will lead to others getting called out on this rules infraction.

 

I've heard this as well, have also heard it's usually addressed by another player telling the offender he needs to be more careful marking his ball.

[williamsnrb]

In my opinion, whoever received that email should have read it, deleted it, emptied the trash folder, and continued on with what they were doing. Did she misplace the ball after marking it? Probably so. Does it happen all the time? Yep. Is it even possible to replace the ball EXACTLY where it was prior to being marked? Nope - it will always be a fraction of a mm or 100th of an inch, etc. off. Did this effect play in any way? Nope. What effect did the LPGA expect to from this? If they left it alone, no one knows/cares and Lexi is the champion. If they decide to enforce it, they had to know that most people were not going to see it as the correct thing to do.

 

And while I'm at it, has anyone considered that Lexi didn't actually sign an incorrect scorecard since the penalty was not enforced until the next day? Her scorecard was technically correct on Saturday when it was signed. At worst, she should have incurred a two stroke penalty. This sets a very shaky precedent.

[Wardman]

BS call! Opponent only should be able to challenge that call in real time, not holes or rounds later. If there is question about from a 2nd place perspective they can make a case at the news conference or publicly to help others realize this, but know that we are all supposed to enforce the rules ourselves; not from TV or as "unofficial - officials"

[jt2gt]

Not sure if anyone else that works closely with pro golf or has friends on tour can chime in, but it's my understanding that there are players on various tours that have a reputation for doing this consistently -- either moving their ball forward a noticeable amount or to the side when replacing it. Whether by habit or worse....it pisses other players off, but doesn't get called out. I wonder if this will lead to others getting called out on this rules infraction.

 

I've heard this as well, have also heard it's usually addressed by another player telling the offender he needs to be more careful marking his ball.

 

Thanks...therefore, if you want to get all conspiracy theorist about this one (like others have implied), the emailer on Lexi's penalty may not be some random couch potato.