3W vs Driver off the tee

[Bye]

Bye: Is that not the average SS on GolfWRX? :)

 

Lol, so they say!

[baldandbroke]

I agree that its difficult. A ton of golfers (myself included) have swing flaws that make the driver more difficult to hit. But that doesn't mean its a "different swing". Rubbish. You just can't do it.

 

The idea that no amateur golfer can be good at irons and driver at the same time is kinda silly.

 

EDIT

Put a ball really high on the tee by your left foot. Put a ball in the middle of your stance. Hover your driver head and then try to hit the ball in the middle like it was an iron (but go over it), and just go through the other one (the one on the tee) to the follow-through. Its a great way to feel it. I'm not ben hogan or anything, but trying to develop two swings is, IMO, a really inefficient way to learn.

 

Rubbish? Interesting way to have a conversation.

 

Unless you are playing a single length set ... every one of you swings is different with every club. They all have different planes and angles of attack.

 

The driver swing is not the same swing as your irons, and nor should it be.

 

What we are talking about here is a mix of swing mechanics and psychology.

 

Some swings are prone to problems with certain clubs ... do you agree with that? So when you have a swing that is less than consistent with the longest / lowest loft full swing club in the bag - there will obviously need to be either:

 

A) a change in equipment to get a driver that minimises the bad shots

 

B) a change in swing mechanics

 

C) a change in mindset

 

Most of us older fellas have played with what we have for long enough to find a way to play with the swing that brought us ... and we aren't making wholesale mechanic changes at this stage of the game. It's not our job, it's a sport we play for fun. We know we aren't the best with the driver, and we have found ways around it ... but that doesn't mean we have stopped looking for better alternatives. Mentally we need to have confidence, and past experience has taught us not to trust the driver ... that is not an easy thing to fix.

 

The simplest and most realistic solution for me, is option (A). I'm just are trying to get rid of the horrific drives and find something that allows me to play the game. I'm not a bad golfer ... I know how to hit the ball BUT I am not going to rebuild my swing / see a sports psychologist to try and fix the 3 or 4 dead drives a round when I can just give up a little distance and play a shorter easier to hit "driver".

 

Throwing up examples like Adam Scott and Sergio are hilarious. Even if you are the best amateur player in the country - you are so far behind those guys it isn't funny. Comparing our attempts at golf to ANY pro is laughable.

 

<EDIT> Thanks for the step by step swing tips, I needed a laugh to start the day. Cheers.

[pinestreetgolf]

I agree that its difficult. A ton of golfers (myself included) have swing flaws that make the driver more difficult to hit. But that doesn't mean its a "different swing". Rubbish. You just can't do it.

 

The idea that no amateur golfer can be good at irons and driver at the same time is kinda silly.

 

EDIT

Put a ball really high on the tee by your left foot. Put a ball in the middle of your stance. Hover your driver head and then try to hit the ball in the middle like it was an iron (but go over it), and just go through the other one (the one on the tee) to the follow-through. Its a great way to feel it. I'm not ben hogan or anything, but trying to develop two swings is, IMO, a really inefficient way to learn.

 

Rubbish? Interesting way to have a conversation.

 

Unless you are playing a single length set ... every one of you swings is different with every club. They all have different planes and angles of attack.

 

The driver swing is not the same swing as your irons, and nor should it be.

 

What we are talking about here is a mix of swing mechanics and psychology.

 

Some swings are prone to problems with certain clubs ... do you agree with that? So when you have a swing that is less than consistent with the longest / lowest loft full swing club in the bag - there will obviously need to be either:

 

A) a change in equipment to get a driver that minimises the bad shots

 

B) a change in swing mechanics

 

C) a change in mindset

 

Most of us older fellas have played with what we have for long enough to find a way to play with the swing that brought us ... and we aren't making wholesale mechanic changes at this stage of the game. It's not our job, it's a sport we play for fun. We know we aren't the best with the driver, and we have found ways around it ... but that doesn't mean we have stopped looking for better alternatives. Mentally we need to have confidence, and past experience has taught us not to trust the driver ... that is not an easy thing to fix.

 

The simplest and most realistic solution for me, is option (A). I'm just are trying to get rid of the horrific drives and find something that allows me to play the game. I'm not a bad golfer ... I know how to hit the ball BUT I am not going to rebuild my swing / see a sports psychologist to try and fix the 3 or 4 dead drives a round when I can just give up a little distance and play a shorter easier to hit "driver".

 

Throwing up examples like Adam Scott and Sergio are hilarious. Even if you are the best amateur player in the country - you are so far behind those guys it isn't funny. Comparing our attempts at golf to ANY pro is laughable.

 

<EDIT> Thanks for the step by step swing tips, I needed a laugh to start the day. Cheers.

 

People being successful using two different swings for both and\or individual golfers going after different swings for both has nothing to do with whether or not the swing can be the same. It can be. It’s very difficult, but absolutely possible. As long as you don’t change your body dimensions and you are allowed to tee it up in different places (so the AoA changes with the same swing depending where it’s teed) you absolutely can.

 

I didn’t say it was easy. I said it was possible and suggested a drill I found helpful to get it on the upswing, which apparently you don’t think much of. Hopefully you find success with your approach.

[matchavez]

I finally gave up my driver for a strong lofted 3 wood. top of bag setup is now 3wd, 5wd, 3hybrid... i am out there off the tee 250-260 next to my buddies hitting driver, but i have 1000x more confidence with it. I hit down on the ball, take a small divot with my fairway woods, and cannot hit any driver consistently. this move has been a major positive change for me. for me it was a no brainer, i wish i would have made the move years ago. play YOUR game.

 

It would be very interesting if you had the same length and weight in your driver as you do in your 3wood now... basically 2" shorter but correct swing weight. I'm guessing you'd monster that driver.

[Chuck905]

Lol this is good. This where the guy claims the swing mechanics are the same for each club which is trivial.

 

There’s just so many facets to the game to put together and everybody has different goals; that we should manage our expectations.

 

This year, Im rolling back the rounds of golf for business travel but will practice as much as I can. I’m not looking for boring consistency, at this point, go for broke and that means the 3 woood and driver must be active.

 

I understand guys talking about accuracy, but, define it?

 

I would take two clubs closer to the hole and off line than two clubs further back online hitting for GIR.

[mahonie]

Lol this is good. This where the guy claims the swing mechanics are the same for each club which is trivial.

 

There’s just so many facets to the game to put together and everybody has different goals; that we should manage our expectations.

 

This year, Im rolling back the rounds of golf for business travel but will practice as much as I can. I’m not looking for boring consistency, at this point, go for broke and that means the 3 woood and driver must be active.

 

I understand guys talking about accuracy, but, define it?

 

I would take two clubs closer to the hole and off line than two clubs further back online hitting for GIR.

 

That’s a good approach as long as your two clubs difference is greater than 60 yards.

[Justsomeguy]

Driver simultaneously the hardest and easiest club in the bag. Worth the practice.

[baldandbroke]

People being successful using two different swings for both and\or individual golfers going after different swings for both has nothing to do with whether or not the swing can be the same. It can be. It’s very difficult, but absolutely possible. As long as you don’t change your body dimensions and you are allowed to tee it up in different places (so the AoA changes with the same swing depending where it’s teed) you absolutely can.

 

I didn’t say it was easy. I said it was possible and suggested a drill I found helpful to get it on the upswing, which apparently you don’t think much of. Hopefully you find success with your approach.

I think you are confusing the discussion.

 

I'm betting you could name your angle of attack with the driver right? You spend a bit of time on with a swing tracker and probably know your spin rate for the driver for different spec shafts?

 

Some of us don't roll that way.

 

Your point seems to be that if we just change who we are, how we approach the game, how we swing and what clubs we choose to swing - we too can do it the way you do it.

 

I wonder why everyone doesn't take this approach? Why does this thread even exist?

 

My guess is because as much as you want to believe that EVERYONE can do it the way you think works, you'd be very wrong.

 

If you played a round of golf with me, and saw that I was a better putter than you ... do you think you'd have the same approach you are advocating for the driver? I doubt it. I wouldn't think that you would copy my equipment, my practice routine, my pre-shot routine, my grip, my stroke, my mental approach ... would you?

 

Golf is a complex game, that does not have absolute truths.

 

Everyone has different expectations and different reasons for playing. Everyone has different budgets for time and money.

 

I think it's fine to share your experience, but a bit rich to point to the best swing in the game and say to the thread: "You could do this".

[pinestreetgolf]

People being successful using two different swings for both and\or individual golfers going after different swings for both has nothing to do with whether or not the swing can be the same. It can be. It’s very difficult, but absolutely possible. As long as you don’t change your body dimensions and you are allowed to tee it up in different places (so the AoA changes with the same swing depending where it’s teed) you absolutely can.

 

I didn’t say it was easy. I said it was possible and suggested a drill I found helpful to get it on the upswing, which apparently you don’t think much of. Hopefully you find success with your approach.

I think you are confusing the discussion.

 

I'm betting you could name your angle of attack with the driver right? You spend a bit of time on with a swing tracker and probably know your spin rate for the driver for different spec shafts?

 

Some of us don't roll that way.

 

Your point seems to be that if we just change who we are, how we approach the game, how we swing and what clubs we choose to swing - we too can do it the way you do it.

 

I wonder why everyone doesn't take this approach? Why does this thread even exist?

 

My guess is because as much as you want to believe that EVERYONE can do it the way you think works, you'd be very wrong.

 

If you played a round of golf with me, and saw that I was a better putter than you ... do you think you'd have the same approach you are advocating for the driver? I doubt it. I wouldn't think that you would copy my equipment, my practice routine, my pre-shot routine, my grip, my stroke, my mental approach ... would you?

 

Golf is a complex game, that does not have absolute truths.

 

Everyone has different expectations and different reasons for playing. Everyone has different budgets for time and money.

 

I think it's fine to share your experience, but a bit rich to point to the best swing in the game and say to the thread: "You could do this".

 

Maybe we are having a mis-communication somewhere. The gentleman said that the driver and irons were "two different swings". They're not. That's all I said. Thinking of them as two different swings because its hard is like thinking of steering a car at 20 mph as different than steering at 200 mph. Steering at 200 mph is certainly harder, but its an identical motion. Square is square, and the swings - *in theory* - are identical. I understand it isn't easy - I'm a 2 cap, not a PGA tour pro. But making technical errors about how the swings work when done correctly makes it harder, not easier, to pull off.

 

i agree with you that people can take different approaches *in practice* and be successful. But the basic statement that an iron swing and a driver swing are mutually exclusive and that there are no players this side of the tour with a good iron swing who can hit the driver is wrong.

[mahonie]

People being successful using two different swings for both and\or individual golfers going after different swings for both has nothing to do with whether or not the swing can be the same. It can be. It’s very difficult, but absolutely possible. As long as you don’t change your body dimensions and you are allowed to tee it up in different places (so the AoA changes with the same swing depending where it’s teed) you absolutely can.

 

I didn’t say it was easy. I said it was possible and suggested a drill I found helpful to get it on the upswing, which apparently you don’t think much of. Hopefully you find success with your approach.

I think you are confusing the discussion.

 

I'm betting you could name your angle of attack with the driver right? You spend a bit of time on with a swing tracker and probably know your spin rate for the driver for different spec shafts?

 

Some of us don't roll that way.

 

Your point seems to be that if we just change who we are, how we approach the game, how we swing and what clubs we choose to swing - we too can do it the way you do it.

 

I wonder why everyone doesn't take this approach? Why does this thread even exist?

 

My guess is because as much as you want to believe that EVERYONE can do it the way you think works, you'd be very wrong.

 

If you played a round of golf with me, and saw that I was a better putter than you ... do you think you'd have the same approach you are advocating for the driver? I doubt it. I wouldn't think that you would copy my equipment, my practice routine, my pre-shot routine, my grip, my stroke, my mental approach ... would you?

 

Golf is a complex game, that does not have absolute truths.

 

Everyone has different expectations and different reasons for playing. Everyone has different budgets for time and money.

 

I think it's fine to share your experience, but a bit rich to point to the best swing in the game and say to the thread: "You could do this".

 

Maybe we are having a mis-communication somewhere. The gentleman said that the driver and irons were "two different swings". They're not. That's all I said. Thinking of them as two different swings because its hard is like thinking of steering a car at 20 mph as different than steering at 200 mph. Steering at 200 mph is certainly harder, but its an identical motion. Square is square, and the swings - *in theory* - are identical. I understand it isn't easy - I'm a 2 cap, not a PGA tour pro. But making technical errors about how the swings work when done correctly makes it harder, not easier, to pull off.

 

i agree with you that people can take different approaches *in practice* and be successful. But the basic statement that an iron swing and a driver swing are mutually exclusive and that there are no players this side of the tour with a good iron swing who can hit the driver is wrong.

 

My swing with driver was the same as my swing with irons and although it was ‘functional,’ it more often than not turned into a slice whereas my irons were a nice baby fade. Losing distance to guys 20 years older than me who had half a backswing but hit a draw with driver pushed me to have the only golf lesson that I have had. That lesson opened my eyes in that the Pro showed me how I would struggle to consistently hit long straight drives with my iron swing. In effect we rebuilt my driver swing to allow me to hit it more from the inside. It took three years to embed properly to the point where I could call on that ‘driver’ swing. Over the three years my game went into a slump as I tried to use the same moves with my irons. It only started getting back to where it was when I disconnected the driver swing from my iron swing. Now I hit typically hit a draw with driver and a fade with all other shots.

[baldandbroke]

People being successful using two different swings for both and\or individual golfers going after different swings for both has nothing to do with whether or not the swing can be the same. It can be. It’s very difficult, but absolutely possible. As long as you don’t change your body dimensions and you are allowed to tee it up in different places (so the AoA changes with the same swing depending where it’s teed) you absolutely can.

 

I didn’t say it was easy. I said it was possible and suggested a drill I found helpful to get it on the upswing, which apparently you don’t think much of. Hopefully you find success with your approach.

I think you are confusing the discussion.

 

I'm betting you could name your angle of attack with the driver right? You spend a bit of time on with a swing tracker and probably know your spin rate for the driver for different spec shafts?

 

Some of us don't roll that way.

 

Your point seems to be that if we just change who we are, how we approach the game, how we swing and what clubs we choose to swing - we too can do it the way you do it.

 

I wonder why everyone doesn't take this approach? Why does this thread even exist?

 

My guess is because as much as you want to believe that EVERYONE can do it the way you think works, you'd be very wrong.

 

If you played a round of golf with me, and saw that I was a better putter than you ... do you think you'd have the same approach you are advocating for the driver? I doubt it. I wouldn't think that you would copy my equipment, my practice routine, my pre-shot routine, my grip, my stroke, my mental approach ... would you?

 

Golf is a complex game, that does not have absolute truths.

 

Everyone has different expectations and different reasons for playing. Everyone has different budgets for time and money.

 

I think it's fine to share your experience, but a bit rich to point to the best swing in the game and say to the thread: "You could do this".

 

Maybe we are having a mis-communication somewhere. The gentleman said that the driver and irons were "two different swings". They're not. That's all I said. Thinking of them as two different swings because its hard is like thinking of steering a car at 20 mph as different than steering at 200 mph. Steering at 200 mph is certainly harder, but its an identical motion. Square is square, and the swings - *in theory* - are identical. I understand it isn't easy - I'm a 2 cap, not a PGA tour pro. But making technical errors about how the swings work when done correctly makes it harder, not easier, to pull off.

 

i agree with you that people can take different approaches *in practice* and be successful. But the basic statement that an iron swing and a driver swing are mutually exclusive and that there are no players this side of the tour with a good iron swing who can hit the driver is wrong.

When you say they are the same swing ... what do you mean?

 

The starting and finishing positions of the body are different. Your body is a different posture during the swing. The swing planes are different. The angle of attack is different. The ball position is different. What is the same? The grip?

 

A 3-wood off the fairway swing is a different swing to Driver off the tee swing. A Driver off the tee swing is very different to a 7-iron from the fairway swing. A flop shot is different to a chip-and-run.

 

Maybe you are talking about something entirely different and I am missing it?

[Bye]

I agree that its difficult. A ton of golfers (myself included) have swing flaws that make the driver more difficult to hit. But that doesn't mean its a "different swing". Rubbish. You just can't do it.

 

The idea that no amateur golfer can be good at irons and driver at the same time is kinda silly.

 

EDIT

Put a ball really high on the tee by your left foot. Put a ball in the middle of your stance. Hover your driver head and then try to hit the ball in the middle like it was an iron (but go over it), and just go through the other one (the one on the tee) to the follow-through. Its a great way to feel it. I'm not ben hogan or anything, but trying to develop two swings is, IMO, a really inefficient way to learn.

 

Rubbish? Interesting way to have a conversation.

 

Unless you are playing a single length set ... every one of you swings is different with every club. They all have different planes and angles of attack.

 

The driver swing is not the same swing as your irons, and nor should it be.

 

What we are talking about here is a mix of swing mechanics and psychology.

 

Some swings are prone to problems with certain clubs ... do you agree with that? So when you have a swing that is less than consistent with the longest / lowest loft full swing club in the bag - there will obviously need to be either:

 

A) a change in equipment to get a driver that minimises the bad shots

 

B) a change in swing mechanics

 

C) a change in mindset

 

Most of us older fellas have played with what we have for long enough to find a way to play with the swing that brought us ... and we aren't making wholesale mechanic changes at this stage of the game. It's not our job, it's a sport we play for fun. We know we aren't the best with the driver, and we have found ways around it ... but that doesn't mean we have stopped looking for better alternatives. Mentally we need to have confidence, and past experience has taught us not to trust the driver ... that is not an easy thing to fix.

 

The simplest and most realistic solution for me, is option (A). I'm just are trying to get rid of the horrific drives and find something that allows me to play the game. I'm not a bad golfer ... I know how to hit the ball BUT I am not going to rebuild my swing / see a sports psychologist to try and fix the 3 or 4 dead drives a round when I can just give up a little distance and play a shorter easier to hit "driver".

 

Throwing up examples like Adam Scott and Sergio are hilarious. Even if you are the best amateur player in the country - you are so far behind those guys it isn't funny. Comparing our attempts at golf to ANY pro is laughable.

 

<EDIT> Thanks for the step by step swing tips, I needed a laugh to start the day. Cheers.

 

People being successful using two different swings for both and\or individual golfers going after different swings for both has nothing to do with whether or not the swing can be the same. It can be. It’s very difficult, but absolutely possible. As long as you don’t change your body dimensions and you are allowed to tee it up in different places (so the AoA changes with the same swing depending where it’s teed) you absolutely can.

 

I didn’t say it was easy. I said it was possible and suggested a drill I found helpful to get it on the upswing, which apparently you don’t think much of. Hopefully you find success with your approach.

 

I do agree with you that it is very difficult but possible to use the same move for all clubs. But I also think by doing this a lot of players are going to limit their success with either driver or their iron shots if they do so.

 

I have seen friends go from great drivers of the ball to terrible ones with the new tech and vice versa.

 

This subject interest me, I was at the point of ditching my driver because I just couldn't keep it on the course (swing flaw I know). I need to adjust my swing to be able to use a driver.

[Bubbtubbs]

Slightly OT but many say three wood is as long as driver. Do people really WANT their three wood to be almost as long as their driver?

 

Interesting that you bring this up as I was thinking the same thing this afternoon. How could someone with this problem not try to fix it?

I think my solution will be to go with a 19 hybrid as my longest club after driver.

My solution would be to learn how to hit driver better.

Right?

 

So many threads where people say they can't hit X so they're replacing it with Y. Seems like there are few who are willing to try to improve it instead of switching clubs.

[Stuart_G]

So many threads where people say they can't hit X so they're replacing it with Y. Seems like there are few who are willing to try to improve it instead of switching clubs.

 

It's really quite simple. Swing changes take a lot of time and effort that most ams simply dont' have. Well, there is also the fact that instant gratification is so much more appealing to most.

[pinestreetgolf]

When you say they are the same swing ... what do you mean?

 

The starting and finishing positions of the body are different. Your body is a different posture during the swing. The swing planes are different. The angle of attack is different. The ball position is different. What is the same? The grip?

 

A 3-wood off the fairway swing is a different swing to Driver off the tee swing. A Driver off the tee swing is very different to a 7-iron from the fairway swing. A flop shot is different to a chip-and-run.

 

Maybe you are talking about something entirely different and I am missing it?

 

The swing is an arc - it has different angles of attack all the way around your body. Theoretically, if you put the ball on a three foot tall tee next to your waist and way in front of you, you could hit the ball with a +40 degree angle of attack with the "same swing". The secret to good golf is controlling and having a consistent low point of the swing - that it "bottoms out" in the same place every time. The swing will always bottom out (like any other lever) at 90* to its axis, which in the golf swing is the line formed by your chin, sternum and belly button. Any lever will always bottom out at 90* to its axis. So if that line is behind the ball, you'll hit it fat. If that line is in front of the ball, you'll get a nice, crisp iron strike - you hit just slightly down because of where the ball is positioned - the ball is just behind the axis. If that axis line is positioned behind the ball but you allow the club to bottom out and then start back up before the strike - due to ball position - then you will have an upward AoA (its after the lowest point and starting back up) with the same swing as an iron.

 

The most efficient* way to control AoA is by ball position. If you do it that way, you do not have to change anything, your impact changes because the ball is being struck on an arc beginning around your rear heel and ending about your left big toe. Placing a ball anywhere there (on a tee or not) will produce anything from a severe downward blow (heel) to a driver upswing (high AoA). Those with lower clubhead speed should be much more extreme in their ball position because they can hit significantly down or up based on where the ball is in their stance, not changing up their mechanics. The other problem with this is it requires pretty high vigilance for your set up during the round, which isn't the most fun thing in the world, but a whole lot of professionals make ball position a huge part of their pre-shot routine.

 

There are two significant issues that stop most players from being able to do this - plane and spine angle. Pros maintain their spine angle all the way through the swing because they don't have to manufacture angle of attack, either because they are so fast they can hit it really far hitting down (Sergio, Rahm) or they have such good mechanics that they can "hit up" just by sliding the ball forward and letting the driver just bottom out before impact (Scott). Most really good ams, when they swing an iron, properly clear their left side low and their right side comes through the ball high - they don't do the left-up/right-down scoop move with the irons. But then with the driver, they scoop without realizing it trying to get a positive AoA. Second, a lot of good but not great players don't keep their clubface on the target line very long. Professionals keep their irons on the target line for about two and a half feet - they are so on plane, that they keep the clubface facing square a foot before and after impact. So if we think about the geometry of it, if you push the tee forward in order to catch it after the bottom and make the same swing, your face is going to be wonky at impact unless you are able to square the face early and keep it square until it exits left. That is very difficult to do. Most ams have a compensation somewhere where they square the face for a very short window just before and after impact. In that case, the same swing doesn't work, because the face is no longer square when it reaches the further forward, tee'd up ball.

 

There are professionals, even, who have "two swings", but most don't, and it is certainly not impossible. It is, however, difficult.

 

*efficient is not a synonym for only. There are plenty of people who make it work. Its just less efficient IMO, and its absolutely possible.

 

EDIT -

Let's say you have a pretty classic good player bad iron swing where you loop inside going back and outside going down, hitting virtually all cuts and fades. You go way off plane inside on the backswing and then compensate by looping it down outside, squaring the face for just an instant before the face shuts down completely and exists sharply up and closed. It is hopeless for you to hit a driver with that swing. If you move the tee forward to catch it on the upswing, you'll hit snap hooks and massive pushes for days. But its not because its an "iron swing" its because its a really off plane iron swing that you've grooved over years of practice to be able to get away with.

 

Probably a better way to say it is you can't hit driver with a bad iron swing that you've made work by practicing timing over years and years.

[baldandbroke]

 

The swing is an arc - it has different angles of attack all the way around your body. Theoretically, if you put the ball on a three foot tall tee next to your waist and way in front of you, you could hit the ball with a +40 degree angle of attack with the "same swing". The secret to good golf is controlling and having a consistent low point of the swing - that it "bottoms out" in the same place every time. The swing will always bottom out (like any other lever) at 90* to its axis, which in the golf swing is the line formed by your chin, sternum and belly button. Any lever will always bottom out at 90* to its axis. So if that line is behind the ball, you'll hit it fat. If that line is in front of the ball, you'll get a nice, crisp iron strike - you hit just slightly down because of where the ball is positioned - the ball is just behind the axis. If that axis line is positioned behind the ball but you allow the club to bottom out and then start back up before the strike - due to ball position - then you will have an upward AoA (its after the lowest point and starting back up) with the same swing as an iron.

 

The most efficient* way to control AoA is by ball position. If you do it that way, you do not have to change anything, your impact changes because the ball is being struck on an arc beginning around your rear heel and ending about your left big toe. Placing a ball anywhere there (on a tee or not) will produce anything from a severe downward blow (heel) to a driver upswing (high AoA). Those with lower clubhead speed should be much more extreme in their ball position because they can hit significantly down or up based on where the ball is in their stance, not changing up their mechanics. The other problem with this is it requires pretty high vigilance for your set up during the round, which isn't the most fun thing in the world, but a whole lot of professionals make ball position a huge part of their pre-shot routine.

 

There are two significant issues that stop most players from being able to do this - plane and spine angle. Pros maintain their spine angle all the way through the swing because they don't have to manufacture angle of attack, either because they are so fast they can hit it really far hitting down (Sergio, Rahm) or they have such good mechanics that they can "hit up" just by sliding the ball forward and letting the driver just bottom out before impact (Scott). Most really good ams, when they swing an iron, properly clear their left side low and their right side comes through the ball high - they don't do the left-up/right-down scoop move with the irons. But then with the driver, they scoop without realizing it trying to get a positive AoA. Second, a lot of good but not great players don't keep their clubface on the target line very long. Professionals keep their irons on the target line for about two and a half feet - they are so on plane, that they keep the clubface facing square a foot before and after impact. So if we think about the geometry of it, if you push the tee forward in order to catch it after the bottom and make the same swing, your face is going to be wonky at impact unless you are able to square the face early and keep it square until it exits left. That is very difficult to do. Most ams have a compensation somewhere where they square the face for a very short window just before and after impact. In that case, the same swing doesn't work, because the face is no longer square when it reaches the further forward, tee'd up ball.

 

There are professionals, even, who have "two swings", but most don't, and it is certainly not impossible. It is, however, difficult.

 

*efficient is not a synonym for only. There are plenty of people who make it work. Its just less efficient IMO, and its absolutely possible.

 

EDIT -

Let's say you have a pretty classic good player bad iron swing where you loop inside going back and outside going down, hitting virtually all cuts and fades. You go way off plane inside on the backswing and then compensate by looping it down outside, squaring the face for just an instant before the face shuts down completely and exists sharply up and closed. It is hopeless for you to hit a driver with that swing. If you move the tee forward to catch it on the upswing, you'll hit snap hooks and massive pushes for days. But its not because its an "iron swing" its because its a really off plane iron swing that you've grooved over years of practice to be able to get away with.

 

Probably a better way to say it is you can't hit driver with a bad iron swing that you've made work by practicing timing over years and years.

 

"Professionals keep their irons on the target line for about two and a half feet - they are so on plane, that they keep the clubface facing square a foot before and after impact"

 

What? I don't know how you think that would happen.

 

https://www.golftipsmag.com/instruction/quick-tips/square-at-impact-is-a-myth/

 

Here's some pictures from Brad Hughes's site that show a few guys with awful spine angle changes, angles of attack and head movement:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.bradleyhu...ons/swing-myths

 

Good luck with whichever method you are employing. I've seen them all before ... The Golf Machine / Square to Square / Single plane theory ... I personally don't think any of them will lead me to the promised land!!

 

I play once a week and move between a 3 and 6 handicap throughout the year. I can go through patches where I struggle off the tee with modern drivers ... Hell, my goto driver is a short Titleist 975d at 8.5 degrees with an S300 shaft! Why do I then bother with any of this new fangled stuff? Well ... I guess I'm guilty of a bit of "the grass is greener on the other side", like most golfers :-)

[pinestreetgolf]

 

The swing is an arc - it has different angles of attack all the way around your body. Theoretically, if you put the ball on a three foot tall tee next to your waist and way in front of you, you could hit the ball with a +40 degree angle of attack with the "same swing". The secret to good golf is controlling and having a consistent low point of the swing - that it "bottoms out" in the same place every time. The swing will always bottom out (like any other lever) at 90* to its axis, which in the golf swing is the line formed by your chin, sternum and belly button. Any lever will always bottom out at 90* to its axis. So if that line is behind the ball, you'll hit it fat. If that line is in front of the ball, you'll get a nice, crisp iron strike - you hit just slightly down because of where the ball is positioned - the ball is just behind the axis. If that axis line is positioned behind the ball but you allow the club to bottom out and then start back up before the strike - due to ball position - then you will have an upward AoA (its after the lowest point and starting back up) with the same swing as an iron.

 

The most efficient* way to control AoA is by ball position. If you do it that way, you do not have to change anything, your impact changes because the ball is being struck on an arc beginning around your rear heel and ending about your left big toe. Placing a ball anywhere there (on a tee or not) will produce anything from a severe downward blow (heel) to a driver upswing (high AoA). Those with lower clubhead speed should be much more extreme in their ball position because they can hit significantly down or up based on where the ball is in their stance, not changing up their mechanics. The other problem with this is it requires pretty high vigilance for your set up during the round, which isn't the most fun thing in the world, but a whole lot of professionals make ball position a huge part of their pre-shot routine.

 

There are two significant issues that stop most players from being able to do this - plane and spine angle. Pros maintain their spine angle all the way through the swing because they don't have to manufacture angle of attack, either because they are so fast they can hit it really far hitting down (Sergio, Rahm) or they have such good mechanics that they can "hit up" just by sliding the ball forward and letting the driver just bottom out before impact (Scott). Most really good ams, when they swing an iron, properly clear their left side low and their right side comes through the ball high - they don't do the left-up/right-down scoop move with the irons. But then with the driver, they scoop without realizing it trying to get a positive AoA. Second, a lot of good but not great players don't keep their clubface on the target line very long. Professionals keep their irons on the target line for about two and a half feet - they are so on plane, that they keep the clubface facing square a foot before and after impact. So if we think about the geometry of it, if you push the tee forward in order to catch it after the bottom and make the same swing, your face is going to be wonky at impact unless you are able to square the face early and keep it square until it exits left. That is very difficult to do. Most ams have a compensation somewhere where they square the face for a very short window just before and after impact. In that case, the same swing doesn't work, because the face is no longer square when it reaches the further forward, tee'd up ball.

 

There are professionals, even, who have "two swings", but most don't, and it is certainly not impossible. It is, however, difficult.

 

*efficient is not a synonym for only. There are plenty of people who make it work. Its just less efficient IMO, and its absolutely possible.

 

EDIT -

Let's say you have a pretty classic good player bad iron swing where you loop inside going back and outside going down, hitting virtually all cuts and fades. You go way off plane inside on the backswing and then compensate by looping it down outside, squaring the face for just an instant before the face shuts down completely and exists sharply up and closed. It is hopeless for you to hit a driver with that swing. If you move the tee forward to catch it on the upswing, you'll hit snap hooks and massive pushes for days. But its not because its an "iron swing" its because its a really off plane iron swing that you've grooved over years of practice to be able to get away with.

 

Probably a better way to say it is you can't hit driver with a bad iron swing that you've made work by practicing timing over years and years.

 

"Professionals keep their irons on the target line for about two and a half feet - they are so on plane, that they keep the clubface facing square a foot before and after impact"

 

What? I don't know how you think that would happen.

 

https://www.golftipsmag.com/instruction/quick-tips/square-at-impact-is-a-myth/

 

Here's some pictures from Brad Hughes's site that show a few guys with awful spine angle changes, angles of attack and head movement:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.bradleyhu...ons/swing-myths

 

Good luck with whichever method you are employing. I've seen them all before ... The Golf Machine / Square to Square / Single plane theory ... I personally don't think any of them will lead me to the promised land!!

 

I play once a week and move between a 3 and 6 handicap throughout the year. I can go through patches where I struggle off the tee with modern drivers ... Hell, my goto driver is a short Titleist 975d at 8.5 degrees with an S300 shaft! Why do I then bother with any of this new fangled stuff? Well ... I guess I'm guilty of a bit of "the grass is greener on the other side", like most golfers :-)

 

Square doesn’t mean “pointing at”, that would be ridiculous. If the clubface is dead parallel to the the target line at the top of the backswing when the shaft is exactly horizontal, it’s square. The shaft is at an angle at address, and the face is square at address. As you go back the shaft angle changes so the face no longer points at the target *but it points square in relation to the shaft as the shaft changes it’s angle*. If the face is dead parallel when the shaft is exactly horizontal, that is a square clubface and no compensations are required on the way down. Most pros have stopped any compensations they may have about two feet before impact. Most amateurs are still compensating as they get within inches of the ball.

 

Obviously I don’t mean the face is literally square to the ball-target line for two feet. You’d have to be twelve feet tall to hit a ball like that. I mean it’s square to the shaft angle - square as it rotates around you. Longer shaft = harder to compensate for a swing that squares late.

[bladehunter]

I'm in the group that will hide behind other clubs if I have a weakness in my bag.

 

As a low-ish handicapper that may seem strange, but even when I played off scratch ... it was the double / triple bogey from the dead-awful drives that would ruin my round more often than a missed iron or putt. I once shot 1-over where I had two eagles, three birdies, two triples and a double - the rest pars!! I once had 29 / 43 for a 2 over par 72 :-)

 

Funnily enough, people that play with me think I'm a good driver of the ball ... but I think that's because in my older age I just minimise my mistakes off the tee. Over the years I've had a Callaway Deuce Big Bertha / Ping Eye 2+ 1-iron / Mizuno FliHi MP 2 iron / Louisville Persimmon Thumper Driver / Callaway Strong 4+ all become my "go to" club off the tee because I could take out the horrible drive.

 

When I play a full length bombing driver, it only takes one really bad drive for me to lose confidence in it and fall back to the next club in the bag.

 

My most recent attempt at finding a club that I can rely on is working so far ... the Callaway XR 3-Deep at 14 degrees has not given me ANY of those dreadful snap hook or blow-out pushes that I tend to produce with the 45 inch varieties AND I'm not really losing a lot of distance. I can actually hit it lower than I can hit most drivers if needed, and on those longer Par 5s that I want to have a go at in two - well, if I hit a good drive to the right spot, it is the perfect club to have a real go at the second shot :-)

 

I guess the main thing I want in my "driver" is I want to be looking for a reason to hit it, not the other way around.

 

A common mistake I see is trying to hit the club off the tee as far as you can, rather than having a distance you are aiming for like you do with almost EVERY other shot on the course. I find that having a less than "bomber" driver helps me with that mentality.

 

 

This describes my Driver to a T. I've too had the 4-5 under 9 holes only to give them all back on the next 9. Aways Driver.

 

Serious question to all. Can you name a player that is considered a great driver of the ball and is also great with a 3 wood and irons who isn't on TV? I have utmost confidence in irons and 3 wood. Yet Driver is so fickle. Usually when you see s guy who is confident with Driver and he will hit Driver bunts vs 3 wood and the hole in his game will be iron play. But someone who covers the ball well and hits down on irons and 3 wood rarely hits Driver well. Stupid game.

 

I don't get it. Did you not hit driver for the first 9 holes? Why does the Driver get all the blame for "giving them all back" and none of the credit for putting you 4-5 under?

 

Unless your course is 3000 yards on the front and 4500 yards on the back, it sounds like a mental issue with being 4-5 under, not a driver issue.

 

 

truth is my home course requires 2 drivers on the front from me from the back tees...both par 5s.. its a tight positional course.... on the back i hit 5 drivers if im feeling good... 3-4 if i dont feel in control... so yes i can directly attribute the loss of strokes to tee balls with driver... the front 9 includes a par 3 that plays from 205-219 depending on hole location and thats with dead calm wind.. its a beast when cold and into the wind... it includes 2 sharp dogleg par 4s i hit 3 iron to the dogleg and am left with 150-185 in... ( depending on quality if iron off tee).... so yes my iron, wedge and putting game is solid... driver costs me quite often... yet ill keep hitting it because its statistically better to on a 400-450 yard par 4...

[bladehunter]

I finally gave up my driver for a strong lofted 3 wood. top of bag setup is now 3wd, 5wd, 3hybrid... i am out there off the tee 250-260 next to my buddies hitting driver, but i have 1000x more confidence with it. I hit down on the ball, take a small divot with my fairway woods, and cannot hit any driver consistently. this move has been a major positive change for me. for me it was a no brainer, i wish i would have made the move years ago. play YOUR game.

 

It would be very interesting if you had the same length and weight in your driver as you do in your 3wood now... basically 2" shorter but correct swing weight. I'm guessing you'd monster that driver.

 

 

doesnt work that way unfortunately..... I have the experiment to prove it.... 43.5 inch vapor speed hotmelted to 212G with a devo 8 X shaft..... i fly it almost identical to my 17 M1 14.5 degree 3 wood at 43 inches with a ad di 8x shaft.. better yet the 3 wood is a bullet that is playable into a good wind... and it spins nearly identical on average... 2900ish...

[bladehunter]

When you say they are the same swing ... what do you mean?

 

The starting and finishing positions of the body are different. Your body is a different posture during the swing. The swing planes are different. The angle of attack is different. The ball position is different. What is the same? The grip?

 

A 3-wood off the fairway swing is a different swing to Driver off the tee swing. A Driver off the tee swing is very different to a 7-iron from the fairway swing. A flop shot is different to a chip-and-run.

 

Maybe you are talking about something entirely different and I am missing it?

 

The swing is an arc - it has different angles of attack all the way around your body. Theoretically, if you put the ball on a three foot tall tee next to your waist and way in front of you, you could hit the ball with a +40 degree angle of attack with the "same swing". The secret to good golf is controlling and having a consistent low point of the swing - that it "bottoms out" in the same place every time. The swing will always bottom out (like any other lever) at 90* to its axis, which in the golf swing is the line formed by your chin, sternum and belly button. Any lever will always bottom out at 90* to its axis. So if that line is behind the ball, you'll hit it fat. If that line is in front of the ball, you'll get a nice, crisp iron strike - you hit just slightly down because of where the ball is positioned - the ball is just behind the axis. If that axis line is positioned behind the ball but you allow the club to bottom out and then start back up before the strike - due to ball position - then you will have an upward AoA (its after the lowest point and starting back up) with the same swing as an iron.

 

The most efficient* way to control AoA is by ball position. If you do it that way, you do not have to change anything, your impact changes because the ball is being struck on an arc beginning around your rear heel and ending about your left big toe. Placing a ball anywhere there (on a tee or not) will produce anything from a severe downward blow (heel) to a driver upswing (high AoA). Those with lower clubhead speed should be much more extreme in their ball position because they can hit significantly down or up based on where the ball is in their stance, not changing up their mechanics. The other problem with this is it requires pretty high vigilance for your set up during the round, which isn't the most fun thing in the world, but a whole lot of professionals make ball position a huge part of their pre-shot routine.

 

There are two significant issues that stop most players from being able to do this - plane and spine angle. Pros maintain their spine angle all the way through the swing because they don't have to manufacture angle of attack, either because they are so fast they can hit it really far hitting down (Sergio, Rahm) or they have such good mechanics that they can "hit up" just by sliding the ball forward and letting the driver just bottom out before impact (Scott). Most really good ams, when they swing an iron, properly clear their left side low and their right side comes through the ball high - they don't do the left-up/right-down scoop move with the irons. But then with the driver, they scoop without realizing it trying to get a positive AoA. Second, a lot of good but not great players don't keep their clubface on the target line very long. Professionals keep their irons on the target line for about two and a half feet - they are so on plane, that they keep the clubface facing square a foot before and after impact. So if we think about the geometry of it, if you push the tee forward in order to catch it after the bottom and make the same swing, your face is going to be wonky at impact unless you are able to square the face early and keep it square until it exits left. That is very difficult to do. Most ams have a compensation somewhere where they square the face for a very short window just before and after impact. In that case, the same swing doesn't work, because the face is no longer square when it reaches the further forward, tee'd up ball.

 

There are professionals, even, who have "two swings", but most don't, and it is certainly not impossible. It is, however, difficult.

 

*efficient is not a synonym for only. There are plenty of people who make it work. Its just less efficient IMO, and its absolutely possible.

 

EDIT -

Let's say you have a pretty classic good player bad iron swing where you loop inside going back and outside going down, hitting virtually all cuts and fades. You go way off plane inside on the backswing and then compensate by looping it down outside, squaring the face for just an instant before the face shuts down completely and exists sharply up and closed. It is hopeless for you to hit a driver with that swing. If you move the tee forward to catch it on the upswing, you'll hit snap hooks and massive pushes for days. But its not because its an "iron swing" its because its a really off plane iron swing that you've grooved over years of practice to be able to get away with.

 

Probably a better way to say it is you can't hit driver with a bad iron swing that you've made work by practicing timing over years and years.

 

 

 

i wonder if the disconnect here is from a hitter vs a swinger standpoint? I am and always will be a hitter of the ball.... not a swinger of the club.... the driver swing most surely is different to me ..... My posture, spine angle, hands etc all start in a different place.... all with the idea of hitting up on the ball.... with all other clubs i think "cover the ball " with my right shoulder which means a down ward aoa... i also do not end an iron swing with my right arm rolling over my left hard to release the face... im very upright and hold the face square to path for quite a while after the strike for a draw or a fade.... nice even long but shallow divots..... same swing with a driver will be high right 100% of the time...why ? it takes a split second longer and a good bit more arm roll ( release) to gett the face square.... and then there is aoa.. you have to get more separation going back ( width) and keep that width through the downswing to get the positive aoa you need with driver... thats entirely opposite of any great iron swing... most great iron players ( tiger phil sergio) have huge amounts of lag and get quite narrow on the downswing with an iron.. and have the same late release i posses..

 

 

 

the whole point isnt that i couldnt tee a driver low and hit it straight.. i can.. BUT it will go less than my 3 wood if i do... which is pointless... I have days where i can master both swings.. and i have days where driver swing feels so foreign wonder why i bother.... to qualify this im a guy that practices every day that it isnt snowing or below freezing..and some calm days if it is...i hit more balls than mist college players much less a normal am.. I know what hitting both exceptionally well feels like... and it is not the same move...

[Chuck905]

Blah blah blah, lol, bogged down with some square to square to nonsense.

 

Hey thank-you for the pictures. I’m sure the better players will know what those pictures debunk.

 

That guy in the top picture looks like a good swing to emulate?

[pinestreetgolf]

i wonder if the disconnect here is from a hitter vs a swinger standpoint?

 

I think its more a theoretical versus practical standpoint. I swing differently with the driver than my irons. I don't want to, but i do. I was responding to the poster who said its not possible for a good iron player to use that swing with the driver and it certainly is possible. It doesn't mean its easy, or even the best way, but it *is* possible, regardless of what certain players may or may not feel.

 

I am and always will be a hitter of the ball.... not a swinger of the club.... the driver swing most surely is different to me ..... My posture, spine angle, hands etc all start in a different place.... all with the idea of hitting up on the ball.... with all other clubs i think "cover the ball " with my right shoulder which means a down ward aoa... i also do not end an iron swing with my right arm rolling over my left hard to release the face... im very upright and hold the face square to path for quite a while after the strike for a draw or a fade.... nice even long but shallow divots..... same swing with a driver will be high right 100% of the time...why ? it takes a split second longer and a good bit more arm roll ( release) to gett the face square.... and then there is aoa.. you have to get more separation going back ( width) and keep that width through the downswing to get the positive aoa you need with driver... thats entirely opposite of any great iron swing... most great iron players ( tiger phil sergio) have huge amounts of lag and get quite narrow on the downswing with an iron.. and have the same late release i posses..

 

I'm honestly not saying this to be a jackass, I am legitimately curious - if it will be high and right 100% of the time, why not just aim left and whale it? Its nearly impossible to hit a golf ball perfectly straight and 280 yards. My driver moves right to left - sometimes viciously so, sometimes gently so, but its almost never straight. I aim up the right edge and rip it. My irons move the other way, so i do it differently. But if you have a miss (like i did) that is really predictable... why not just play it as your ball-flight instead of dropping 4-5 strokes trying to hit it straight? 100% of the time is a strong statement. If that's true, capitalize on it IMO.

 

the whole point isnt that i couldnt tee a driver low and hit it straight.. i can.. BUT it will go less than my 3 wood if i do... which is pointless... I have days where i can master both swings.. and i have days where driver swing feels so foreign wonder why i bother.... to qualify this im a guy that practices every day that it isnt snowing or below freezing..and some calm days if it is...i hit more balls than mist college players much less a normal am.. I know what hitting both exceptionally well feels like... and it is not the same move...

 

I can't tee the driver anywhere and hit it straight - it has to travel too far. With an iron, its much shorter so straight flight is pretty achievable. Maybe part of your issue is trying to hit it straight? Just throwing that out there. In my last round i hit one drive straight. Every single other drive moved right to left. Once every two or three rounds i'll double cross and hit a push, but i couldn't imagine trying to hit every single drive 270+ and straight.

[Donno]

I see a lot of members talk about using a 3 wood off the tee because the driver isn't working.......with todays technology and "forgiveness", you would think drivers are much easier to hit than years past. The huge 460cc heads are supposed to inspire confidence (I hate them personally), but its funny how a smaller head 3W with a shorter shaft provides that confidence to a lot of amateur players.....maybe club fitting should be geared towards shaft length along with the other fitting parameters. I know it is somewhat, but what are your thoughts? It seems a lot of people like the 3w off the tee because it flies straight for them....but the heads are tiny compared to todays drivers and I know the shafts are shorter.....maybe that's the key to good fitting. Sure you lose some yardage, but if it flies down the middle and you are confident with the club, hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

How about 3W vs. lessons?

[bladehunter]

i wonder if the disconnect here is from a hitter vs a swinger standpoint?

 

I think its more a theoretical versus practical standpoint. I swing differently with the driver than my irons. I don't want to, but i do. I was responding to the poster who said its not possible for a good iron player to use that swing with the driver and it certainly is possible. It doesn't mean its easy, or even the best way, but it *is* possible, regardless of what certain players may or may not feel.

 

I am and always will be a hitter of the ball.... not a swinger of the club.... the driver swing most surely is different to me ..... My posture, spine angle, hands etc all start in a different place.... all with the idea of hitting up on the ball.... with all other clubs i think "cover the ball " with my right shoulder which means a down ward aoa... i also do not end an iron swing with my right arm rolling over my left hard to release the face... im very upright and hold the face square to path for quite a while after the strike for a draw or a fade.... nice even long but shallow divots..... same swing with a driver will be high right 100% of the time...why ? it takes a split second longer and a good bit more arm roll ( release) to gett the face square.... and then there is aoa.. you have to get more separation going back ( width) and keep that width through the downswing to get the positive aoa you need with driver... thats entirely opposite of any great iron swing... most great iron players ( tiger phil sergio) have huge amounts of lag and get quite narrow on the downswing with an iron.. and have the same late release i posses..

 

I'm honestly not saying this to be a jackass, I am legitimately curious - if it will be high and right 100% of the time, why not just aim left and whale it? Its nearly impossible to hit a golf ball perfectly straight and 280 yards. My driver moves right to left - sometimes viciously so, sometimes gently so, but its almost never straight. I aim up the right edge and rip it. My irons move the other way, so i do it differently. But if you have a miss (like i did) that is really predictable... why not just play it as your ball-flight instead of dropping 4-5 strokes trying to hit it straight? 100% of the time is a strong statement. If that's true, capitalize on it IMO.

 

the whole point isnt that i couldnt tee a driver low and hit it straight.. i can.. BUT it will go less than my 3 wood if i do... which is pointless... I have days where i can master both swings.. and i have days where driver swing feels so foreign wonder why i bother.... to qualify this im a guy that practices every day that it isnt snowing or below freezing..and some calm days if it is...i hit more balls than mist college players much less a normal am.. I know what hitting both exceptionally well feels like... and it is not the same move...

 

I can't tee the driver anywhere and hit it straight - it has to travel too far. With an iron, its much shorter so straight flight is pretty achievable. Maybe part of your issue is trying to hit it straight? Just throwing that out there. In my last round i hit one drive straight. Every single other drive moved right to left. Once every two or three rounds i'll double cross and hit a push, but i couldn't imagine trying to hit every single drive 270+ and straight.

 

 

Yea. I get what you are saying. But my high and right is a push that may end up 40 yards right.

 

Truly my issue is spin. I have to give it a strike that kills spin or else I literally loose 30 yards or so. And I still have the off the planet miss ever so often.

 

I’ve posted it down to just not wanting to hit Driver unless I’m hitting it well. And now that definition is with an acceptable spin rate. only way to do that is hit it with a square face. So no way to play that push miss for me. I’ve taken to addressing the ball with a really shut face. And I can eliminate the right side that way. But of course brings in an occasional low hook. Albeit rare.

 

I’m not giving up. But I’m not there yet either. When you know what confidence in a club is you know what it’s not. I have confidence in 3 wood down. Sure I miss big once in a blue moon with an iron or a 3 wood. But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it’s me. With Driver I still miss often enough that I have doubts that I have a Perfect Driver fit. And I’m not taking under pressure. I’m talking even on the range. If you gave me 10 balls. Pretty good chance I’d hang at least 1 30 yards right. That’s 2 strokes 100 % of the time.

[bladehunter]

And when I say “ straight “ I mean in the fairway. When i say “ miss “ I mean ob. Ill have some movement on the shot one way or another. And I can move if both ways. And miss it both ways. Lol. I’ll play from the rough all day and not care.

[vanillafunk616]

I think a lot of it is psychologically, people hit their driver for distance, and hit 3 wood to a number. I think the moi and size difference between driver and 3 wood should make up for 5 degrees of loft and 2 inches of shaft.

 

I've never been a 3 wood off the tee guy, unless you're forced to lay up to a number.

[Donno]

I see a lot of members talk about using a 3 wood off the tee because the driver isn't working.......with todays technology and "forgiveness", you would think drivers are much easier to hit than years past. The huge 460cc heads are supposed to inspire confidence (I hate them personally), but its funny how a smaller head 3W with a shorter shaft provides that confidence to a lot of amateur players.....maybe club fitting should be geared towards shaft length along with the other fitting parameters. I know it is somewhat, but what are your thoughts? It seems a lot of people like the 3w off the tee because it flies straight for them....but the heads are tiny compared to todays drivers and I know the shafts are shorter.....maybe that's the key to good fitting. Sure you lose some yardage, but if it flies down the middle and you are confident with the club, hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Today's "technology" hasn't resulted in any meaningful reduction in handicaps. Nicklaus hit a 341 yard drive with persimmon driver and balata ball. I suggest working on your driver swing with a pro.

[Bye]

And when I say " straight " I mean in the fairway. When i say " miss " I mean ob. Ill have some movement on the shot one way or another. And I can move if both ways. And miss it both ways. Lol. I'll play from the rough all day and not care.

 

Are you misses high right and low left?

[bladehunter]

And when I say " straight " I mean in the fairway. When i say " miss " I mean ob. Ill have some movement on the shot one way or another. And I can move if both ways. And miss it both ways. Lol. I'll play from the rough all day and not care.

 

Are you misses high right and low left?

 

Yea. If I’m trying to hit a draw. But the low left is quite rare. In fact I can’t think of one on course. Usually during range warm up. For a fade is always a wipe high right. Or the alwasy awesome dead straight ball that’s blistered when you aim at the left tree line. Lol.

[North Butte]

And when I say " straight " I mean in the fairway. When i say " miss " I mean ob. Ill have some movement on the shot one way or another. And I can move if both ways. And miss it both ways. Lol. I'll play from the rough all day and not care.

 

Are you misses high right and low left?

 

Yea. If I'm trying to hit a draw. But the low left is quite rare. In fact I can't think of one on course. Usually during range warm up. For a fade is always a wipe high right. Or the alwasy awesome dead straight ball that's blistered when you aim at the left tree line. Lol.

 

Wow my tee game is an 80% scale, lefty facsimile of yours. My most common shot is the 210-yard block about 40 yards left of where I'm aiming. The only time that is NOT my most common shot is when I aim into trouble down the right, when I can magically hit straight bullets.

 

Lately I've been just trying to basically pull everything with the driver. Seems to be working. I can aim middle and hit either straight or pulled shots into the right half. Only about once a round (usually late in the round) with the big block. That one is usually a disaster but it beats having that two-way miss with disasters on every other hole!

 

The reason I said upthread the tee-shot problem was 99% mental was in my own experience I can "fix"the driver problem by hitting 5w off the tee. That works great once, twice, maybe three times a round. But by about the fourth hole in a row with 5w it's amazing. I'll revert to that same disaster block shot that I hit with the driver.