Why Don't More Players Use Graphite Iron Shafts?

[Psyber]

It seems that we've determined that lighter but still strong graphite shafts are the way to go on woods yet for some reason irons are really slow to pick up on this transition. Not a single pro plays a steel wood shaft yet almost no one is taking advantage of the same advantages in their irons. Why is that? It's clearly better tech and has many advantages over steel.

[gvogel]

Light weight makes ball go far. Heavier weight helps for control and accuracy.

 

Irons are for control and accuracy.

[Stuart_G]

Actually it's a small percentage but there are some pro's that currently or have at some time played graphite iron shafts.

 

But to answer the question, lighter isn't always better, not for woods and particularly not for irons. It's the same reason most pro's play driver shafts in the 70-80 gm range and not go for the lightest shaft available. Everyone has to find the best weight for them and their swing for each club.

 

While there are several heavier weight graphite iron shafts available, when you get above 100 gm for iron shafts, there are far more steel options available so it's much more likely to find a good fit in steel. And when it comes to ams who actually have to pay for their gear, the heavy weight graphite options can increase the cost considerably in some cases. So unless you need the graphite for some medical (pain) reason, or the lighter weight shafts (< 90 gm) really are a better fit, it's not very cost effective to go with graphite.

[Jagpilotohio]

There are a few reasons. These are generalizations of course.

 

1. Woods are distance clubs. Irons are accuracy clubs. Better players do not care about their irons going farther. They want them to be accurate. Lighter weight is not a benefit for accuracy.

 

2. Better players tend to play what the pros play growing up. Pros play steel.

 

3. Better players tend to not switch iron shafts once they reach a certain level of proficiency and this usually happens fairly young.

 

4. Graphite iron shafts “feel” distinctly different than steel. Better players are very sensitive to feel and don’t want a distinctly different feel.

 

5. Quality graphite iron shafts are more expensive than steel.

 

I’m sure I’ve left out some, but these are the first few that come to mind.

 

I’m a good example of the problems of switching. I have early onset arthritis starting in my hands. I desperately want to find heavier “players graphite” to help dampen shock. I’m incapable of finding something that I like the feel, ball flight, and spin characteristics of.

 

I’ve owned and tried all of the following in the last 2 years:

 

Recoil Prototype 110,125

Steelfiber 110,125

Graphite design tour ad 115

Fujikura rombax 115

Fujikura MCI 120

Diamana thump 110

Loomis Tour 120

 

 

Every single one of them bothered me significantly in some way: Feel, ball flight, spin, balance point. I’ve basically given up for now. It’s Frustrating because after a good 2 hour practice session, even with sensicores in my Tour V’s, my hands hurt the entire next day.

 

I did cave in a little and go with recoil Prototype 125’s in all my wedges since I practice the most with them. The one problem with these is that I spin them too much on full shots. That’s why the rest of them didn’t stay in my irons.

[Stuart_G]

I'm sure I've left out some, but these are the first few that come to mind.

 

Here's one you left out. Poor education. There can still be a negative 'stigma' associated with graphite iron shafts and there are certainly quite a lot of misconceptions about them in the general public. It's better then it used to be but still a long way from where it should be.

 

 

P.S. If the feel at impact (lack of feedback) is one of the things that has kept you from liking any of those particular shafts, that is something that can usually be re-learned over time. The feedback hasn't gone away it's just become a lot more subtle and takes a bit of time to relearn the more subdued feel. Yes, it's annoying but when the pain get's bad enough, it will be worth it.

[Sean2]

I'm sure I've left out some, but these are the first few that come to mind.

 

Here's one you left out. Poor education. There can still be a negative 'stigma' associated with graphite iron shafts and there are certainly quite a lot of misconceptions about them in the general public. It's better then it used to be but still a long way from where it should be.

 

 

P.S. If the feel at impact (lack of feedback) is one of the things that has kept you from liking any of those particular shafts, that is something that can usually be re-learned over time. The feedback hasn't gone away it's just become a lot more subtle and takes a bit of time to relearn the more subdued feel. Yes, it's annoying but when the pain get's bad enough, it will be worth it.

 

That is a good point about the misperception of graphite shafts in irons. Due to recurring tendinitis issues I was forced to switch to graphite shafts, which made all the difference, and I was very concerned about performance. Well, it turned out to be a non-issue both with regards to feel and performance.

[puttingmatt]

There are a few reasons. These are generalizations of course.

 

1. Woods are distance clubs. Irons are accuracy clubs. Better players do not care about their irons going farther. They want them to be accurate. Lighter weight is not a benefit for accuracy.

 

2. Better players tend to play what the pros play growing up. Pros play steel.

 

3. Better players tend to not switch iron shafts once they reach a certain level of proficiency and this usually happens fairly young.

 

4. Graphite iron shafts “feel” distinctly different than steel. Better players are very sensitive to feel and don’t want a distinctly different feel.

 

5. Quality graphite iron shafts are more expensive than steel.

 

I’m sure I’ve left out some, but these are the first few that come to mind.

 

I’m a good example of the problems of switching. I have early onset arthritis starting in my hands. I desperately want to find heavier “players graphite” to help dampen shock. I’m incapable of finding something that I like the feel, ball flight, and spin characteristics of.

 

I’ve owned and tried all of the following in the last 2 years:

 

Recoil Prototype 110,125

Steelfiber 110,125

Graphite design tour ad 115

Fujikura rombax 115

Fujikura MCI 120

Diamana thump 110

Loomis Tour 120

 

 

Every single one of them bothered me significantly in some way: Feel, ball flight, spin, balance point. I’ve basically given up for now. It’s Frustrating because after a good 2 hour practice session, even with sensicores in my Tour V’s, my hands hurt the entire next day.

 

I did cave in a little and go with recoil Prototype 125’s in all my wedges since I practice the most with them. The one problem with these is that I spin them too much on full shots. That’s why the rest of them didn’t stay in my irons.

Agree , especially with reason 4. Graphite in irons do feel different. I am back to steel after trying recoils.

I will look at graphite again, but sometime down the road, expect improvements from shaft manufacturers and

Looking forward to it.

[Stuart_G]

That is a good point about the misperception of graphite shafts in irons. Due to recurring tendinitis issues I was forced to switch to graphite shafts, which made all the difference, and I was very concerned about performance. Well, it turned out to be a non-issue both with regards to feel and performance.

 

That's basically how I learned about them as well - sort of like learning to swim by jumping in the deep end. Although I must admit, for me the pain was bad enough that I didn't' really care about performance when I made the switch. I just wanted to find a way I could keep on playing.

[2Down]

Cost! They seem overpriced for the return.

[Psyber]

It's interesting you mention control because I was hitting an AP3 with an X100 in it and my control was no better than with my Steelfiber i95s. The difference was after a range session with the x100 I was more fatigued. I had a bit more carry distance with the same accuracy with the i95 as well. X100 went a little lower (not much really) but also had less spin which seemed to make the ball release a lot more than I wanted. The difference in how I feel after swinging the i95 for an hour is really noticeable and I'm not an old guy. I'm a 32 year who spends 4 days a week in the gym. However, I did like how my tempo felt with the heavier shaft but I didn't think it was worth all the other trade offs.

[KCCO]

I used graphite for a season during injury/recovery phase....(Fuji MCI-100’s) they were nice as the weight was there, and actually felt more accurate in wedges around green, reason I’m still playing in wedges.

I would agree that for something (a graphite) with weight and feel very close to steel, you will pay a premium. I believe throughout my set they were an upcharge of $700-900, granted PXG may charge more than others, but even through Will they were $90 per shaft.

At moment I’m back to cTapers in my irons, and will see how this season goes. If pain returns, I’ll make decision if that occurs on switching back, but do like feel of steel in long irons better.

 

*i believe Kuchar is still playing them, just not sure which one...

[kcowgolf]

Recently put a set of Recoil 125's in my backup set as my elbow has been giving me grief. Different feel and a bit too much spin but I have been playing them and my elbow is thanking me.

[animalgolfs]

What'ca talkin bout

 

 

[Nessism]

Actually it's a small percentage but there are some pro's that currently or have at some time played graphite iron shafts.

 

But to answer the question, lighter isn't always better, not for woods and particularly not for irons. It's the same reason most pro's play driver shafts in the 70-80 gm range and not go for the lightest shaft available. Everyone has to find the best weight for them and their swing for each club.

 

While there are several heavier weight graphite iron shafts available, when you get above 100 gm for iron shafts, there are far more steel options available so it's much more likely to find a good fit in steel. And when it comes to ams who actually have to pay for their gear, the heavy weight graphite options can increase the cost considerably in some cases. So unless you need the graphite for some medical (pain) reason, or the lighter weight shafts (< 90 gm) really are a better fit, it's not very cost effective to go with graphite.

 

Great summary here by Stuart!

 

Most Pros use heavy shafts because it smooths out their tempo. This is especially true for their irons and wedges. In the early days of graphite shafts there was the negative claim of "dead feel" associated with many of them, and the more weight that's piled onto the shafts to get the weight up the more risk there is of this. Steel shafts don't have this drawback so unless the player has physical pain or the need for light shafts, using steel just makes more sense.

[1Mordrid1]

Graphite shafts in irons can mask feedback, which is part of the whole "feel" package. That is one reason they are great for people with arthritis, because they reduce the vibrations that feed up the shaft into the hands.

[dlygrisse]

2 reasons really..

1. graphite is perceived as a benefit for distance not accuracy

2. Cost-steel is less expensive. When you are talking about 10 clubs they cost adds up, especially for premium graphite....

 

Graphite in irons is good mostly for shock absorption, if you have arthritis or tendinitis it can help greatly. When I had issues with tendinitis I went with graphite for a bit....never really liked the feel or control, I probably had the wrong shaft, but it did help dampen the vibration. Went back to steel, although a softer and lighter shaft than previous and for the money it seems like the best option.

[Psyber]

I used graphite for a season during injury/recovery phase....(Fuji MCI-100's) they were nice as the weight was there, and actually felt more accurate in wedges around green, reason I'm still playing in wedges.

I would agree that for something (a graphite) with weight and feel very close to steel, you will pay a premium. I believe throughout my set they were an upcharge of $700-900, granted PXG may charge more than others, but even through Will they were $90 per shaft.

At moment I'm back to cTapers in my irons, and will see how this season goes. If pain returns, I'll make decision if that occurs on switching back, but do like feel of steel in long irons better.

 

*i believe Kuchar is still playing them, just not sure which one...

He is using i95 stiff. I believe Snedeker has the same shafts.

 

2 reasons really..

1. graphite is perceived as a benefit for distance not accuracy

2. Cost-steel is less expensive.

 

That's definitely a perception and not reality on high end graphite iron shafts for sure

[chisag]

I'm sure I've left out some, but these are the first few that come to mind.

 

Here's one you left out. Poor education. There can still be a negative 'stigma' associated with graphite iron shafts and there are certainly quite a lot of misconceptions about them in the general public. It's better then it used to be but still a long way from where it should be.

 

 

P.S. If the feel at impact (lack of feedback) is one of the things that has kept you from liking any of those particular shafts, that is something that can usually be re-learned over time. The feedback hasn't gone away it's just become a lot more subtle and takes a bit of time to relearn the more subdued feel. Yes, it's annoying but when the pain get's bad enough, it will be worth it.

 

 

... I wish someone would do a Myths Of Grahite Iron Shafts. So much misinformation out there. Starting with costs. Nippon NS Pro Modus $38, Project X Rifle $40, Project X LZ $45 and KBS S Taper Chrome $55. With Recoils around $45 and Steelfibers increased to $53. Next is accuracy which technically can be increased with graphite irons shafts with torque as low as 1.5* or lower.

 

... I had a bad case of elbow tendonitis and Aldila was about to release their NV Tour 130gm shafts that VJ Singh was playing on tour and I got a set to review. I was younger and stronger then and the NV's were targeted to replace Dynamic Gold shafts performance with the benefits of graphite dampening. They were even more accurate than the DGS300's I had been playing. But at 1.5* of torque they were very demanding and I was pleased when Aldila released the NV Pro version at 105gms with 2.1* of torque and they were ideal. I then played the VS Proto 100's which mirrored KB Tours and they were an even better fit for me. When they released the VS Proto 85gm I thought that would be the best step, but they proved to be too light for my swing and I lost my tempo. And while most on the PGA Tour play still, there are many more graphite iron shaft players on the Champions Tour where their bodies need the benefits. Few more accurate than Fred Couples when he is on an he has been playing Steelfibers for years.

 

... Feel is different, there is no denying that. After playing them for over 15 years I could not imagine going back to steel. But my tendonitis never returned and I am comfortable with the feel and feedback of graphite in my irons. It is there, just more subtle. I play Recoils now, both the Standard and Prototypes and could not be happier with their performance. I certainly think at some point in the future graphite irons shafts will replace steel but far too many players grew up with the feel of steel and convincing them to change will be difficult. Until OEM's start putting irons in stores with stock graphite shafts, the public will remain skeptical. For those of us that do our own club work installing graphite in our irons is basically the same or even less expensive than top end steel shafts but some OEMs charge a premium to re-shaft with graphite. I just don't understand why shafts that retail for $44 cost $50 or more to upgrade from OEMs when they are getting them wholesale.

[Stuart_G]

He is using i95 stiff. I believe Snedeker has the same shafts.

 

I saw a report that Kuch recently switch to a different graphite - I think the new KBS graphite iron shaft.

[chal0072]

Price for me. Otherwise I'd play them no problem.

[gvogel]

I tried Steelfiber i95 regulars in a set of irons, and I couldn't get them to work for my swing. Steelfibers are very firm in the tip - they play darn stiff to flex. I have tried i80's - too light.

 

When a manufacturer comes up with a good graphite iron shaft around 100 grams with a softer tip, I'm interested.

[chisag]

I tried Steelfiber i95 regulars in a set of irons, and I couldn't get them to work for my swing. Steelfibers are very firm in the tip - they play darn stiff to flex. I have tried i80's - too light.

 

When a manufacturer comes up with a good graphite iron shaft around 100 grams with a softer tip, I'm interested.

 

 

... I had a similar experience. Coming from VS Proto 100's I installed a set of Steelfiber 95 stiff flex and they were too stout feeling for me. Performance was similar but they felt like they were not unloading, which changed my swing. Recoil 95's and 110's are much easier to load and unload. I play Recoil 95's in my irons and 110's in my wedges.

[Stuart_G]

When a manufacturer comes up with a good graphite iron shaft around 100 grams with a softer tip, I'm interested.

 

Don't remember if we've had this conversation before or not (rings a bell) but I'd suggest the Aldila VS-proto 100. For me they feel a touch softer in the tip then the recoil 95's - which are noticeably softer then the SF's. IF that's not enough, you can soft step them.

 

Havent' tried them myself but the Matrix Program 95's are also known for having a softer tip - if you can find some (they've been discontinued for a newer model). I think the newer model is similar but much more expensive then what you could get either of the above 2 shafts for.

[Z1ggy16]

I'd be open to graphite if they made ~115-120g that felt as smooth as my steel and also didn't cost any more. Doubt I'd get both of those things right now. Maybe years down the road if market allowed.

[Psyber]

I'd be open to graphite if they made ~115-120g that felt as smooth as my steel and also didn't cost any more. Doubt I'd get both of those things right now. Maybe years down the road if market allowed.

High quality graphite is always going to cost more. It's just a more expensive material to work with. The current upcharge is too much for quality graphite though. For no good reason either because as mentioned earlier in the thread they're really only $15-20 a shaft more but yet they manage to charge like $350 for $140 worth of shaft upgrade. I can't image what difference there is at the Titelist factory when building a new club to grab a different shaft and put it in that justifies this markup.

[Z1ggy16]

Exactly. Even if performance was nearly identical... Graphite will likely never cost the same, so why would I even bother? Unless dispersion became much better with graphite vs steel I just couldn't see myself paying an upcharge just to feel "cool" with graphite shafts.

[chisag]

Exactly. Even if performance was nearly identical... Graphite will likely never cost the same, so why would I even bother? Unless dispersion became much better with graphite vs steel I just couldn't see myself paying an upcharge just to feel "cool" with graphite shafts.

 

... The "feel" for most that play graphite in their irons would be pain free, not cool.

[Z1ggy16]

Luckily for me, I don't have pain yet. And I'd assume lack of pain would come more from playing less stiff easier to load, lighter shafts that put less strain on the body than simply just the fact it's not steel.

[Stuart_G]

Exactly. Even if performance was nearly identical... Graphite will likely never cost the same, so why would I even bother? Unless dispersion became much better with graphite vs steel I just couldn't see myself paying an upcharge just to feel "cool" with graphite shafts.

 

Yes, it's more common for them to be more expensive but I wouldn't use the word 'never'. it's not even always the case right now. There are several steel shaft models that already cost more then the graphite shafts I'm currently using. The Nippon's in your signature are one of those.

[chisag]

Luckily for me, I don't have pain yet. And I'd assume lack of pain would come more from playing less stiff easier to load, lighter shafts that put less strain on the body than simply just the fact it's not steel.

 

... As I stated earlier, I had severe elbow tendonitis in my late 40's when I spent an entire fall only hitting knockdown shots with my irons. I wanted to master that shot in Chicago winds but many courses here stop watering in the fall and the ground was very hard so slamming my iron into the hard ground on every swing was not the smartest move. After taking 3 months off, I started playing 130gm NV Tour shafts and the tendonitis never came back. I went back to lighter weight steel and very quickly I experienced a little elbow soreness so I have played graphite ever since. I experience less soreness in my joints after a round with graphite and my playing pard made the switch 2 seasons ago after playing Project X and experiencing elbow and wrist soreness and now uses Recoil 110's and is very happy with them. It is the material that reduces vibration dramatically, not the weight.