Project X hand crafted vs non hand crafted

[the bishop]

ad nauseam

I gave you a like just for spelling ad nauseam correctly. Well done. :clapping:

[dmac4g]

So you're saying that when comparing the two shafts, the missing Hand Crafted label on one of them was not enough to tip you off that it was not Hand Crafted? You either are oblivious to shaft markings or you are a troll of the first order!

[Cpr3584]

nope you guys are right it my fault for buying the wrong shaft. didnt do my homework. I was at least expecting a shaft that would be relatively stable, esp at 6.5

[Z1ggy16]

my point is that the shaft is in the club, on display at stores with nothing indicating that its a mass produced, stock version made thousands of miles away from where the original is made. nothing like "made exclusively for" anywhere

Somebody more knowledgeable please elaborate or correct me, but I thought most major OEM's produce their "stock" offerings overseas. That is, the only shafts I know of that are literally hand made in the USA are the HC version of the PX shafts. I also assumed that if something is "tour only" that it means it's just to the tightest tolerances possible, or it's a limited production run that's not for retail.

[Tasals]

ok thanks. I thought 6.5 would be plenty stiff. it does not play this stiff, not even close. the 6.5 iron shaft is stout as hell.

 

Try the black, its not counter balanced so it feels pretty/is stout. The Yellow is counter balanced, along with the T1100 so they feel softer than they are. The Black is a low launch low spin monster that doesnt have that.

 

I hit both the handcrafted and mass market shaft 75g 6.5 in my driver, I currently play it, but there was not major improvements over non-handcrafted version. Spin was within 220 rpm, launch was within 0.3 degrees, peak height was within 8 feet average carry was within 1 yard with a std dev +/- 10 yards for the MM, and +/- 8 yards with the HC. Total distance was actually longer for the MM shaft by a whopping 4 yards. These were the numbers from my fitting done last August using a GCQuad, and professional former tour fitter.

 

It wasnt worth an extra 450 dollars for me to get the Hand Crafter version of the shaft, Im not good enough to see a major gain or hindrance with the slightly bigger tolerances.

 

my point is that the shaft is in the club, on display at stores with nothing indicating that its a mass produced, stock version made thousands of miles away from where the original is made. nothing like "made exclusively for" anywhere

Somebody more knowledgeable please elaborate or correct me, but I thought most major OEM's produce their "stock" offerings overseas. That is, the only shafts I know of that are literally hand made in the USA are the HC version of the PX shafts. I also assumed that if something is "tour only" that it means it's just to the tightest tolerances possible, or it's a limited production run that's not for retail.

 

Or slightly higher quality materials. The Aldila Rogue 125 MSI vs the standard 110MSI shafts. Though I think Wilson used the 125s in their drivers last year. I also believe there was a Tour Only version of the Rogue Black that was 110MSI. Millions of Pounds per Square Inch, measure of stiffness and elasticity of the carbon firbre used.

[Albatross85]

Regardless of the OP's hyperbole, just in case this might help someone reading this.

 

I own a hzrdus black handcrafted 75x HANDCRAFTED fairway shaft. I personally tipped it 1.5" and love it.

 

I bought a brand new club with a hzrdus black 75x Non-handcrafted untipped. I personally tipped it 1.5" and installed it in another identical fairway to the same specs; grip, length, sw, etc.

 

Results: they are nothing alike. The non-HC felt soft and could not hold up to my swing, where as the HC was easy to control and offered a much more stable ballflight while never wanting to hook. The Non-hc was a hook machine. I even lined up the graphics to make sure my tipping was correct and the manufacturer had followed my instructions. I then swapped the heads and it was the same result.

 

Regardless of the craziness in this thread, just know what you're getting and why there is an upcharge. There is a major difference in my opinion.

[Z1ggy16]

^^ I would assume that could be explained due to tolerances almost exclusively? Unless PX comes on here and says there are specific CPM and design differences between the HC and non HC versions, I would think that a wider tolerance on CPM and I suppose quality in general could account for this.

 

If the tip on a HC version was to measure at 90 +/- 1cpm and the non hc was 90+/- 6cpm... what happens if you got the -6cpm one that still passes QC at the China factory but obviously would get rejected here at the HC factory? Sample size of 1 is not a good prediction of anything statistically meaningful.

 

I'm not saying you or anybody who says this is wrong, but just that we need more information from an actual first hand source. Depending how wide the tolerances are on the Non HC stuff, from one end to the other, the same shaft could feel pretty different.

[JonnyKrasnodar]

my point is that the shaft is in the club, on display at stores with nothing indicating that its a mass produced, stock version made thousands of miles away from where the original is made. nothing like "made exclusively for" anywhere

 

You can't possibly be as uninformed or misinformed as you are acting here. You've been on this site for going on 8 years and you've filled this thread with nothing but hyperbole, quackery, and ridiculous assumptions. This has to be a troll job, or you're playing some angle with an axe to grind against TaylorMade.

 

Is he Crossfield in disguise?

[drvrwdge]

Is this thread real??

[Valtiel]

nope you guys are right it my fault for buying the wrong shaft. didnt do my homework. I was at least expecting a shaft that would be relatively stable, esp at 6.5

 

No big deal, you chose a strange profile shaft and ended up attributing its lack of fit for you as a quality issue, not the craziest thing in the world. Shaft manufacturers have been pretty coy about concealing manufacturing origins in the past and people are a but gun shy about it even today. Do the research and make better decisions next time! :ok:

[drvrwdge]

At least it’s not as bad as tennis where pro use frames from literally 5-10 years ago and they’re painted in the current scheme of the newest racquets being marketed to make consumers think the pros are playing the latest and greatest. But I digress

[Willstuart2328]

I haven't read all responses but it's a mass produced shaft that Taylormade and other club makers have ordered inventory on.... it's cheap and allows them to offer it at a no-upcharge cost. If you try and get that in a Cally driver it's at minimum a $200 upcharge.

[Aaronwilson_95]

The px non handcrafted are made in Mexico handcrafted rolled in San Diego .

[GoIrish17]

At least it’s not as bad as tennis where pro use frames from literally 5-10 years ago and they’re painted in the current scheme of the newest racquets being marketed to make consumers think the pros are playing the latest and greatest. But I digress

 

It’s a good thing that never happens in golf. Could you imagine if someone like DJ or Rory played a shaft that was disguised as a different shaft??

[drvrwdge]

At least it’s not as bad as tennis where pro use frames from literally 5-10 years ago and they’re painted in the current scheme of the newest racquets being marketed to make consumers think the pros are playing the latest and greatest. But I digress

 

It’s a good thing that never happens in golf. Could you imagine if someone like DJ or Rory played a shaft that was disguised as a different shaft??

 

This may be sarcastic?? Thin I’ve heard rumors of DJ specifically using a “paint job”.

[ckay]

OP has a point...if you aren’t getting the real deal, it should say “Made For” or have some other distinguishing characteristic because your average golfer is dropping $500 thinking their Even Flow is the same shaft on TV.

 

I know it is easy to pile on, but that is pretty deceptive.

[storm319]

The px non handcrafted are made in Mexico handcrafted rolled in San Diego .

 

Non-hc shafts are produced in Guangzhou, China per Don Brown of True Temper.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1522358-project-x-handcrafted-evenflow-reviews-wrx-test-group-reviews/page__st__270__p__16762502#entry16762502

[Aaronwilson_95]

OP has a point...if you aren’t getting the real deal, it should say “Made For” or have some other distinguishing characteristic because your average golfer is dropping $500 thinking their Even Flow is the same shaft on TV.

 

I know it is easy to pile on, but that is pretty deceptive.

Compared to most companies at least they the HC logo too distinguish

[storm319]

For everyone still claiming big differences between HC vs non-HC, read these quotes from Don Brown of True Temper. Keep in mind that he has no incentive in claiming that the HC vs non-HC are identical as this admission greatly reduces the perceived value of the HC versions that cost considerably more...

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...-or-buy-shafts/

Just to clarify the HZRDUS Black, Red and Yellow that are offered stock and no upcharge are exactly the same as their Handcrafted counterparts, same materials, same designs, same specs, only made in our mass production facility instead of our R&D facility in San Diego.

The Handcrafted shafts have the same specs and tolerances as the mass manufactured, the fact that each flag is hand placed and the shafts are individually processed means the std deviation is smaller within the same specification bands.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...s/page__st__870

The Handcrafted and mass manufactured designs use exactly the same carbon fibers from exactly the same supplier. The specs are exactly the same, the difference is the HC are hand rolled in our San Diego factory and go through our Tour Inspection procedures.

 

DB

[Kale_m]

I swing the driver at 121mph

 

My “made for” hzdus yellow 6.5 holds up just fine

 

Best shaft I have used. And I have been through a few graphite designs and speeders and whatever else

[Valtiel]

OP has a point...if you aren't getting the real deal, it should say "Made For" or have some other distinguishing characteristic because your average golfer is dropping $500 thinking their Even Flow is the same shaft on TV.

 

I know it is easy to pile on, but that is pretty deceptive.

 

The problem is that someone who cares enough about a specific shaft they see on TV should also care enough to research and question whether or not a $300+ shaft is somehow included for free in their purchase. It would be deceptive if they weren't marked differently or it wasn't called out in a WITB article.

[FlyOver]

Wait so what your telling me is the $75 shaft isn’t the same as the $350 version, my god shocking. All joking aside no one has made for exclusive shafts anymore. Yes they are they aren’t the same as the HC/Pro/tour versions, but that’s because they are cheaper and fit the average consumers wallet and swing more.You can pay to get an upgrade on shafts straight from the manufacturer. If you want the best stuff you got to pay for it.

 

Edit: after seeing you change the topic, I don’t think the profile of HC vs non is very different in those shafts just the tolerances are a lot tighter.

 

Bingo, I read the non-handcrafted Hzrdus shafts are made with the same material as the handcrafted. The difference between the 2 is the tolerence level. Though the China made shaft could at times spit out a handcrafted tolerence level shaft.

[Cpr3584]

Thanks for the responses. Moving forward- I'm now looking for a "real" shaft that will hold up with my transition ( its quick, but not insane quick). I used a "made for" taylormade diamana white x before this.

 

What are some options that aren't $350? Are some of the older diamanas (D+, etc) stable enough for my swing? Do they have the same feel? are they the "real deal"? thanks.

[Benkross]

OP has a point...if you arent getting the real deal, it should say Made For or have some other distinguishing characteristic because your average golfer is dropping $500 thinking their Even Flow is the same shaft on TV.

 

I know it is easy to pile on, but that is pretty deceptive.

If you're spending $500 and can't do a little research, you've either got too much money or you're not all that bright. We have something called Google. It's pretty much impossible to hide information anymore. Any quick search on golf equipment pushes the WRX results to the top.

[nsxguy]

No OEM offers a tour quality shaft for the retail price, those will cost you hundreds more. This has always been the case regardless of what kind of club the shaft is for. The only question is whether the handcrafted version will make you better off the tee than the stock version.

 

Srixon's current premium drivers (765 & 565) come standard with a Handcrafted Yellow.

 

 

Edited to clarify - at the PGATSS there is about a 50/50 split between the Miyazaki shaft and the Handcrafted Hzrdus Yellow, all drivers at the same price point ($449).

[ckay]

OP has a point...if you aren’t getting the real deal, it should say “Made For” or have some other distinguishing characteristic because your average golfer is dropping $500 thinking their Even Flow is the same shaft on TV.

 

I know it is easy to pile on, but that is pretty deceptive.

If you're spending $500 and can't do a little research, you've either got too much money or you're not all that bright. We have something called Google. It's pretty much impossible to hide information anymore. Any quick search on golf equipment pushes the WRX results to the top.

I understand the point of researching it, but that makes sense for those of us who are "in the know." We make up a very small portion of the golfing public who won't know any better that there may be a watered down version in a retail offering. Chances are those people won't even know what to type into the search bar to even investigate it.

 

To conclude, yes researching it may seem like pure common sense, but maybe not to the next 99 people that line up to buy an M3 with a Tensei White that is not the Boron version.

[CCTxGolf]

OP has a point...if you aren’t getting the real deal, it should say “Made For” or have some other distinguishing characteristic because your average golfer is dropping $500 thinking their Even Flow is the same shaft on TV.

 

I know it is easy to pile on, but that is pretty deceptive.

If you're spending $500 and can't do a little research, you've either got too much money or you're not all that bright. We have something called Google. It's pretty much impossible to hide information anymore. Any quick search on golf equipment pushes the WRX results to the top.

I understand the point of researching it, but that makes sense for those of us who are "in the know." We make up a very small portion of the golfing public who won't know any better that there may be a watered down version in a retail offering. Chances are those people won't even know what to type into the search bar to even investigate it.

 

To conclude, yes researching it may seem like pure common sense, but maybe not to the next 99 people that line up to buy an M3 with a Tensei White that is not the Boron version.

Those 99 people don’t care that it’s not the premium version. Thats why they are those 99 people.

[mesomike]

None of the shafts offered in stock drivers are high end shafts. They are usually a lesser quality version of high end shaft, tensei pro vs non pro, seeder evo TS vs not tour spec (the real one), handcrafted vs non, etc. Its a little bit like a toyota compared to a lexus. lol. Usually the good ones are made in Japan and the stock offerings are made in China. Just got a brand new Rouge fairway with a stock evenflow. Pulling it before ever hitting it and installing a Diamana B series.

[storm319]

None of the shafts offered in stock drivers are high end shafts. They are usually a lesser quality version of high end shaft, tensei pro vs non pro, seeder evo TS vs not tour spec (the real one), handcrafted vs non, etc. Its a little bit like a toyota compared to a lexus. lol. Usually the good ones are made in Japan and the stock offerings are made in China. Just got a brand new Rouge fairway with a stock evenflow. Pulling it before ever hitting it and installing a Diamana B series.

 

The profiles of those are nearly identical. Give the Even Flow a try, you may like it and be able to save some money.

[ChipNRun]

The stock shafts are made in batches. The OEMs buy a batch of 10,000 and get a volume discount on the lot. The custom shafts are made in much smaller lots, and if you get one sent to your local golf shop there's custom handling on a single shaft.

 

A custom clubfitter in New Orleans talked to me about the ins and outs of shafts. He said that every so often, a big-name shaft maker will have a batch with some bad rods. If it's a stock lot of 10K, a bunch of everyday golfers will ask for a replacement, or incorrectly think their swing has gone bad. If it's a custom shaft, the special order customer will raise hell.

 

It all comes down to getting fit for a new club. About half the time, the stock shaft is just what I need. After all, the stock shaft is often based upon an earlier custom shaft, and gets tweaked to fit a range of golfers for which the club was designed. Other times, the stock shaft was pretty far off from what I needed.