Failing to Post Scores- How to Handle?

[MtlJeff]

Most courses have a minimum number of games you need posted to play in events. At our club it's 85% of your games. If you don't post you aren't eligible.... pretty simple but if works.

 

Lying about scores is much harder to fix naturally. But at a private club usually guys get a reputation and then do it less

[davep043]

I sometimes also feel there's nothing you can do about it except whining and complaining. Never expect anything from the pro because they'll naturally wash their hands, they've got to deal with all the members in the end. In fact it's the kind of situation I can't imagine how to solve because it's been happening since handicaps exist. Guys who don't post their score are the primary reason why handicap systems don't work well. And even though the rules strongly advise against it, it's become commonplace. I think the governing bodies are too passive about it.

I don't know much about the system in Argentina. I know that under USGA rules, the system relies on a Handicap Committee at each club. The Chair of that committee may not be an employee of the club, for good reason. I don't want to put a pro in the position of "disciplining" handicap issues, that should be members policing themselves. There are many difficulties in forming and working on a Handicap Committee, and I'm certain that its even more difficult in a typical public golf course setting than it is in a private club. But the Committee does have the authority and the tools to enforce the Handicap Rules, if they choose to do it.

[purdy]

Post scores for them via the club computer. Maybe even a few shots lower....

[Augster]

I’d contact the handicap chair. If that didn’t get things posted, I’d post them myself. To get them off their record, THEY’D have to contact the handicap chair. That’ll be a great conversation.

 

“I played league last week and didn’t post it but someone posted it for me. I want it taken off my scoring record”.

 

Chair: “What did you just say?” :)

 

Honestly, confrontation is not the way to go. I called out a friend of mine, a guy that plays every day and we’ve played together 100+ times over the years, for not posting his scores. He knows he doesn’t post his scores and is a sandbagging cheat. When I confronted him, in private so it wasn’t going to embarrass him in front of others, he blew up and was yelling and screaming and threatening to hit me.

 

Totally not worth it.

 

Now I just find his card after a round, wait a day or two to let him do the right thing, then if it doesn’t get posted, I post it for him. He can take it up with the handicap committee if he wants to get the rounds stricken.

 

Fun guy to play with and a good gross player. You just can’t trust anything at all net with him.

 

Peer review.

 

 

[SkiSchoolPro]

Thanks for the suggestions. To be clear, this is a public course...not sure if there is a handicap committee. I sent an email asking which rounds we are suppose to post while noting that some players are not posting. No response yet.

[Augster]

The course doesn’t have a committee, usually. It’s whatever club issues the handicap to the player. Whether it is the course’s men’s club, or the league independently. There can be multiple clubs (issuers of handicaps) all playing out of the same golf course.

 

I’m at a public course. Our men’s club handicap chair isn’t the same guy that is the women’s club handicap chair. Who also isn’t the Monday league chair, Tuesday league chair etc. etc.

 

There are certain requirements of a club or league to be allowed to issue GHIN handicaps. One of those requirements is a handicap chairman who has to have taken a class or two about it I believe.

 

You can read all the bylaws etc. here.

 

https://www.usga.org/handicapping/handicapping-101/forming-your-own-golf-club-dffab3a9.html

 

If the player has a GHIN cap, that cap is overseen by a handicap chair.

 

Instead of you asking around about who to talk to about this issue, just start posting his scores for him. Then, if he wants the scores taken off, he can do the work of finding the handicap chairman and explaining why he feels the scores he shot in league shouldn’t have been posted and were.

 

There is a reason we as individuals can’t redact scores on our list. Even if we fatfinger them. Once posted, to correct it we need to get a hold of the committee and let them know what happened.

 

We used to have a guy that would play every day, and post, but post higher scores than he actually shot. He’d shoot 77 and post 83. If he shot a good score, 72-76 say, and one of us were watching him as he posted for the day, he’d come in a couple of days later and put in 6-8 junk scores to force the good score lower and hopefully off his record before the revision kicked in. Like he suddenly played 54 a day at a different course for 3 days.

 

Eventually the committee had enough and had me take every card that I was party to him playing, sign it myself and hand it in. Then they’d check each day there was a card to see IF it got posted and what score got posted.

 

He doesn’t play anymore.

 

 

[bladehunter]

lol. Op. Read my mind. My Saturday opponent hasn’t posted that 80T score yet. He’s got till Saturday and I’ll mention it to our pro and watch him post it for him. Sorry. But right is right.

[Swisstrader98]

Solution: I get that golf is a game of integrity but based on all the BS that goes on with sandbagging and vanity handicaps why not make it a requirement that all cards be handed in at the pro shop at the end of the round.

 

Not a perfect solution but people will be more apt to enter every score and enter that score correctly if they know there’s some sort of checks and balances built into the system. Pro shop would also make it clear that they do random checks via GHIN to make sure people are in compliance.

 

The pros are required to hand in their cards, why not the same for amateurs?

[Shipwreck]

I guess I’m fortunate enough to play in a league where all of the members have been members for ages. Any questions as to the honesty of the player are handled appropriately. Now as far as I go, I don’t post any scores outside of what the league plays, only because when I play outside of the league I don’t play by the rules. I use my slope rangefinder, pick up balls etc. essentially just practice.

[bladehunter]

This is an issue that seems to have no solution. People think everybody else is bagging so they “have to” to compete. And nobody ever thinks they are the “worst” one. I have a prime example. I play regularly with a great player. He carries somewhere around a 1 to 1.5 index. He regularly shoots in the 69-73 range and is a threat for 65-67 every time he tees it up. He has played seven different tournament rounds in the last month at four different courses. He has shot 65, 70, 70, 73, 72, 65, 67.

 

He gets very offended when people call him out on his handicap. Something along, “I’m already a 1, what more do you want?” Or it’s not nearly as bad as so and so’s. When in reality he probably should be in the +2 to +3 range so he IS as bad as so and so who has 4 or 5 shots of fluff in their cap. It’s frustrating enough to deal with baggers, but it’s even worse when they are brazen and defiant about it.

 

What makes you think he should be a +2 or 3 ? Those sound similar to my scores and I’ve never gotten to plus 2. I still sprinkle a 78 or 80 in from time to time. Maybe he does too ? If it’s a good excuse for the 10 cap who shoots 77 surely it’s good for the 1 who shoots 67.

[MtlJeff]

Thanks for the suggestions. To be clear, this is a public course...not sure if there is a handicap committee. I sent an email asking which rounds we are suppose to post while noting that some players are not posting. No response yet.

 

Public course, oh man. That's like Mad Max levels of lawlessness.

[finleysg]

Good mens' clubs with active handicap committees do exist, even at public GCs in the US. And they exist because someone volunteered, and members continue to volunteer.

[Swisstrader98]

Thanks for the suggestions. To be clear, this is a public course...not sure if there is a handicap committee. I sent an email asking which rounds we are suppose to post while noting that some players are not posting. No response yet.

 

Public course, oh man. That's like Mad Max levels of lawlessness.

 

Made me laugh! Thanks man

[hnryclay]

Solution: I get that golf is a game of integrity but based on all the BS that goes on with sandbagging and vanity handicaps why not make it a requirement that all cards be handed in at the pro shop at the end of the round.

 

Not a perfect solution but people will be more apt to enter every score and enter that score correctly if they know there's some sort of checks and balances built into the system. Pro shop would also make it clear that they do random checks via GHIN to make sure people are in compliance.

 

The pros are required to hand in their cards, why not the same for amateurs?

 

That is the way it was for many years, at private clubs. With the acceptance of computer scoring it is largely done by the individual player now.

[Sean2]

This is why I don’t play leagues or tourney any longer....sucks. Got fed up with cheats in gentlemen’s game. Last straw was Bandon tourney few months back where “9 handi” shot 3 mid 70 rounds in wind/rain.

 

I agree. I wish I played well enough to only play in “gross” tournaments. No net.

[Hilltopper413]

This is an issue that seems to have no solution. People think everybody else is bagging so they “have to” to compete. And nobody ever thinks they are the “worst” one. I have a prime example. I play regularly with a great player. He carries somewhere around a 1 to 1.5 index. He regularly shoots in the 69-73 range and is a threat for 65-67 every time he tees it up. He has played seven different tournament rounds in the last month at four different courses. He has shot 65, 70, 70, 73, 72, 65, 67.

 

He gets very offended when people call him out on his handicap. Something along, “I’m already a 1, what more do you want?” Or it’s not nearly as bad as so and so’s. When in reality he probably should be in the +2 to +3 range so he IS as bad as so and so who has 4 or 5 shots of fluff in their cap. It’s frustrating enough to deal with baggers, but it’s even worse when they are brazen and defiant about it.

 

What makes you think he should be a +2 or 3 ? Those sound similar to my scores and I’ve never gotten to plus 2. I still sprinkle a 78 or 80 in from time to time. Maybe he does too ? If it’s a good excuse for the 10 cap who shoots 77 surely it’s good for the 1 who shoots 67.

 

Nah. I play ALOT of golf with him. Great guy, love playing with him, but his handicap is off. In the last two years I don’t remember him firing over 73 more than a handful of times. Never in the 80’s. He’s big into statistics. One month last summer (June or July). I believe he was cumulatively 30 to 35 under par. You don’t go that low that often as a 2 handicap. I know because I am one (legit).

[Blues Golfer]

I started managing my index...I got fed up getting robbed, so I keep my index 1 point higher than it should be. One point (keeping it over 3.5 but at/under 4.5) was enough to defend myself.

 

That 1 index point is bigger than it looks. So yes, a player that is a plus handicap that is bagging even two strokes is BIG.

 

And the Mad Max comment was awesome.

[QEight]

I started managing my index...I got fed up getting robbed, so I keep my index 1 point higher than it should be. One point (keeping it over 3.5 but at/under 4.5) was enough to defend myself.

 

That 1 index point is bigger than it looks. So yes, a player that is a plus handicap that is bagging even two strokes is BIG.

 

And the Mad Max comment was awesome.

 

To admit, is one type of honesty.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Take a screen shot of their posted scores and email it to everyone in the league and ask, how come these guys haven't posted their scores? Public shaming works.

[bazinky]

This is an issue that seems to have no solution. People think everybody else is bagging so they "have to" to compete. And nobody ever thinks they are the "worst" one. I have a prime example. I play regularly with a great player. He carries somewhere around a 1 to 1.5 index. He regularly shoots in the 69-73 range and is a threat for 65-67 every time he tees it up. He has played seven different tournament rounds in the last month at four different courses. He has shot 65, 70, 70, 73, 72, 65, 67.

 

He gets very offended when people call him out on his handicap. Something along, "I'm already a 1, what more do you want?" Or it's not nearly as bad as so and so's. When in reality he probably should be in the +2 to +3 range so he IS as bad as so and so who has 4 or 5 shots of fluff in their cap. It's frustrating enough to deal with baggers, but it's even worse when they are brazen and defiant about it.

 

Is this guy somehow avoiding having his tournament scores posted? Unless those scores are on REALLY easy courses, it he looks like he is really close to getting an 'R' index, even as 1 handicap.

[Hilltopper413]

This is an issue that seems to have no solution. People think everybody else is bagging so they "have to" to compete. And nobody ever thinks they are the "worst" one. I have a prime example. I play regularly with a great player. He carries somewhere around a 1 to 1.5 index. He regularly shoots in the 69-73 range and is a threat for 65-67 every time he tees it up. He has played seven different tournament rounds in the last month at four different courses. He has shot 65, 70, 70, 73, 72, 65, 67.

 

He gets very offended when people call him out on his handicap. Something along, "I'm already a 1, what more do you want?" Or it's not nearly as bad as so and so's. When in reality he probably should be in the +2 to +3 range so he IS as bad as so and so who has 4 or 5 shots of fluff in their cap. It's frustrating enough to deal with baggers, but it's even worse when they are brazen and defiant about it.

 

Is this guy somehow avoiding having his tournament scores posted? Unless those scores are on REALLY easy courses, it he looks like he is really close to getting an 'R' index, even as 1 handicap.

He travels quite a bit for tournaments, going up to 2 hours away in any direction. The only time he walks in most of these courses are for their once yearly invitational. Most places do not post tournament scores and don’t check to see if they are posted.

[steve76t]

I agree with those that say "get involved". There are a lot of players everywhere that cheat the system, only input tournament rounds that posted for them, only input rounds over their current index, etc. The only way to make a dent in what's going on at your local club is to get involved.

 

The club I play in has issues too just like everyone else. However, our handicap chair typically pairs himself with newer members to see first hand what they bring to the table. If there's evidence upfront to show the new member may have an inflated index it's looked into and at times adjusted.

[larrybud]

Post scores for them via the club computer. Maybe even a few shots lower....

 

I knew a guy who figured out how to post for others via the old golf association of Michigan website about 10 years ago (there was a big security flaw). One bagger was probably wondering how his T scores were getting in there. Lol

[larrybud]

Take a screen shot of their posted scores and email it to everyone in the league and ask, how come these guys haven't posted their scores? Public shaming works.

 

I played in Michigan publinx tournies many years ago where the same 3 or 4 guys were always in the money. these T Scores were never posted. I pointed this out to the committee and they did nothing, so I quit.

[deadsolid...shank]

Take a screen shot of their posted scores and email it to everyone in the league and ask, how come these guys haven't posted their scores? Public shaming works.

 

I played in Michigan publinx tournies many years ago where the same 3 or 4 guys were always in the money. these T Scores were never posted. I pointed this out to the committee and they did nothing, so I quit.

 

That to me is the worst. When it's pointed out to the people who actually have the authority to do something about it, but won't. Then it drives good people away.

[bladehunter]

Take a screen shot of their posted scores and email it to everyone in the league and ask, how come these guys haven't posted their scores? Public shaming works.

 

I played in Michigan publinx tournies many years ago where the same 3 or 4 guys were always in the money. these T Scores were never posted. I pointed this out to the committee and they did nothing, so I quit.

 

That to me is the worst. When it's pointed out to the people who actually have the authority to do something about it, but won't. Then it drives good people away.

 

Or my favorite when they say “ wel just play better. That solves everything “. Been told that 4 times total now. Unfortunately that’s how the world works now.

[RickK]

I play in 2 different traveling tournament leagues. One league does not use GHIN but has its own handicapping system and posts the scores to it. I will not say all but I think most of us who also have GHIN handicaps post our scores from that league to GHIN ourselves. The handicap from that league is not really an official USGA handicap (at least thru this year) because of their rules of play (drop for lost ball where you everyone thinks it should be with penalty, drop at OB with penalty instead of rehitting a shot, all bunkers are played rake and place, max 5 over par on any hole).

The other league uses GHIN and uploads our scores to GHIN after every tournament. That league plays strictly by USGA rules.

What does bug me is the people who play outside of league play and do not post their scores from those rounds. I know they play with other people so the scores are legit to post. But, some of the members of the league who uses GHIN only have the league tournament scores on their handicap. A couple of them I have caught and brought it up to them and the league. They were told we could, and possibly would, reduce their handicap for our events. But, I am pretty sure others do it too.

Personally, I pay for GHIN 3 times and my GHIN number is tied to the one tournament league that plays by USGA rules, my home club where I play in the SMGA and another daily fee course where I play in their MGA events.

[DaveLeeNC]

I play in 2 different traveling tournament leagues. One league does not use GHIN but has its own handicapping system and posts the scores to it. I will not say all but I think most of us who also have GHIN handicaps post our scores from that league to GHIN ourselves. The handicap from that league is not really an official USGA handicap (at least thru this year) because of their rules of play (drop for lost ball where you everyone thinks it should be with penalty, drop at OB with penalty instead of rehitting a shot, all bunkers are played rake and place, max 5 over par on any hole).

The other league uses GHIN and uploads our scores to GHIN after every tournament. That league plays strictly by USGA rules.

What does bug me is the people who play outside of league play and do not post their scores from those rounds. I know they play with other people so the scores are legit to post. But, some of the members of the league who uses GHIN only have the league tournament scores on their handicap. A couple of them I have caught and brought it up to them and the league. They were told we could, and possibly would, reduce their handicap for our events. But, I am pretty sure others do it too.

Personally, I pay for GHIN 3 times and my GHIN number is tied to the one tournament league that plays by USGA rules, my home club where I play in the SMGA and another daily fee course where I play in their MGA events.

 

I am curious as to how golfers who play under your league rules (e.g., OB played as a lateral, no S/D for lost ball) post scores in rounds where this rule is invoked.

 

Thanks.

 

dave