Joel Dahmen accuses Kang of cheating

[jallen0119]

Dahmen is coming off like a two faced baby.

 

The moment Dahmen signed Kang's card, the case was closed.

Dahmen validated that Kang's card was accurate with his own signature.

 

Whether or not Kang cheated is no longer the issue.

 

The issue is Dahmen was too chicken to stand up to Kang at the scorers table in person. So he signs the card, and goes on an immature twitter rant, all the while damaging Kang's image.

 

Dahmen looks weak. Kang could seek damages.

 

i'm not a lawyer but does Kang have a case for seeking damages?

 

....because if he does---he should!

 

It's kind of a "he said, she said" case. There's no way any reputable lawyer would take this case.

[PuttCurseRepeat]

Any classic Japanese film buffs on this forum? This thread reads like a golf version of Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon

 

Or like the Ultraman episode where he battles the Lobsterhands monster.

Rashomon, Shmashomon.

 

I had quoted a bunch of posts in this thread before this one, intending to reply . Then I saw this post and realized the rest didn't really matter. Might be the best thing I've ever seen on the internet. Since I could "like" this post only once, I will probably "like" other posts of yours that I come across, regardless of what I think of them, to make up for it.

[jonsnow]

Dahmen is coming off like a two faced baby.

 

The moment Dahmen signed Kang's card, the case was closed.

Dahmen validated that Kang's card was accurate with his own signature.

 

Whether or not Kang cheated is no longer the issue.

 

The issue is Dahmen was too chicken to stand up to Kang at the scorers table in person. So he signs the card, and goes on an immature twitter rant, all the while damaging Kang's image.

 

Dahmen looks weak. Kang could seek damages.

 

i'm not a lawyer but does Kang have a case for seeking damages?

 

....because if he does---he should!

 

It's kind of a "he said, she said" case. There's no way any reputable lawyer would take this case.

 

That still leaves plenty who would.

[bscinstnct]

Dahmen is coming off like a two faced baby.

 

The moment Dahmen signed Kang's card, the case was closed.

Dahmen validated that Kang's card was accurate with his own signature.

 

Whether or not Kang cheated is no longer the issue.

 

The issue is Dahmen was too chicken to stand up to Kang at the scorers table in person. So he signs the card, and goes on an immature twitter rant, all the while damaging Kang's image.

 

Dahmen looks weak. Kang could seek damages.

 

i'm not a lawyer but does Kang have a case for seeking damages?

 

....because if he does---he should!

 

It's kind of a "he said, she said" case. There's no way any reputable lawyer would take this case.

 

That still leaves plenty who would.

 

 

What you are witnessing is real..

 

This is the case of

 

"Kang cheated, Dahmen-it!"

 

[A_plan]

It seems JD likes to be a bit controversial on Twitter :censored2: Also, isn't that Bob guy one of the witnesses on the whole JD/SK saga??

 

[lowheel]

Dahmen is coming off like a two faced baby.

 

The moment Dahmen signed Kang's card, the case was closed.

Dahmen validated that Kang's card was accurate with his own signature.

 

Whether or not Kang cheated is no longer the issue.

 

The issue is Dahmen was too chicken to stand up to Kang at the scorers table in person. So he signs the card, and goes on an immature twitter rant, all the while damaging Kang's image.

 

Dahmen looks weak. Kang could seek damages.

 

i'm not a lawyer but does Kang have a case for seeking damages?

 

....because if he does---he should!

 

Nope. He has to prove the accusation caused him to loose money. Last I checked, Kang is still able to play and make the same amount of money... he'll just be getting some dirty looks.

 

Sponsorship/endorsement may be affected. Your reputation has a price. Ask Vijay Singh how long those things follow you around

[BIG STU]

If you see a player blatantly cheating, aren't you obligated to confront him? Integrity is hard to come by these days, and everyone is quick to criticize. JD did the right thing, glad he saw something wrong and called it. Too bad there's many rules officials enjoying their time inside the ropes more than actually looking for violations.

 

Doing the right thing is signing the card validating his score and then complaining on twitter like he's the American Ian Poulter?

 

Doing the right thing if he 100% believed cheating occurred, wouldn't it be refusing to sign the card and then registering an official protest/complaint with the governing bodies of the tour?

 

Or should all office disputes be solved by twitter "burns"?

 

It already is. Every youtube video is clickbait... every social media post is clickbait. Joel seems to be taking this very personally which has given me pause as to his real motivations. Maybe he just plain dislikes kang? Not signing the card is also a bush league thing to do.I played a tar heel tour event a few years back and drove it into the woods and so did my playing competitior. We were 10 feet apart.i could only chip out sideways he had a shot towards the green that would be 30-40 yards short. As i set up and cocked my wrists to rehearse and see if i had room i flicked a leave on an adjacent bush and it fell. I called a penalty on myself.i then pitched out. My competitor set up, rehearsed a make shift swing lightly clipping the bush and a twig and leaf falls. We end the round and i was keeping score for him and asked him in the tent what he made on 14. he says par... i told him what i saw and he said the wind did that not him. they would have fallen whether he was there or not. I advised the rules committee and they went by the players account as there was nobody there other than us 2. No choice but to rule in his favor. I can live with calling a penalty on myself and now he has to live with what he did. i shook his hand and told him eye to eye " remember, you have to live with this. if in your heart you feel thats right fine but i saw it and you should respect my word. Trust and respect take years to earn and seconds to lose. take care"

He still asked me to sign for his par. I did and will never speak to this person again.

Something my old man taught me before I ever did any Mini Tour Comps---- Always keep yourself above reproach and square your actions. In the case you mentioned if I had been that guy (IMHO he darn well knew what happened) I would have called you over and told you. If it was your opinion that I instead of the wind caused it to fall then I would have taken the penalty. If you had not seen it to keep myself above reproach I would have called it or at least told you as my playing competitor.

[lowheel]

If you see a player blatantly cheating, aren't you obligated to confront him? Integrity is hard to come by these days, and everyone is quick to criticize. JD did the right thing, glad he saw something wrong and called it. Too bad there's many rules officials enjoying their time inside the ropes more than actually looking for violations.

 

Doing the right thing is signing the card validating his score and then complaining on twitter like he's the American Ian Poulter?

 

Doing the right thing if he 100% believed cheating occurred, wouldn't it be refusing to sign the card and then registering an official protest/complaint with the governing bodies of the tour?

 

Or should all office disputes be solved by twitter "burns"?

 

It already is. Every youtube video is clickbait... every social media post is clickbait. Joel seems to be taking this very personally which has given me pause as to his real motivations. Maybe he just plain dislikes kang? Not signing the card is also a bush league thing to do.I played a tar heel tour event a few years back and drove it into the woods and so did my playing competitior. We were 10 feet apart.i could only chip out sideways he had a shot towards the green that would be 30-40 yards short. As i set up and cocked my wrists to rehearse and see if i had room i flicked a leave on an adjacent bush and it fell. I called a penalty on myself.i then pitched out. My competitor set up, rehearsed a make shift swing lightly clipping the bush and a twig and leaf falls. We end the round and i was keeping score for him and asked him in the tent what he made on 14. he says par... i told him what i saw and he said the wind did that not him. they would have fallen whether he was there or not. I advised the rules committee and they went by the players account as there was nobody there other than us 2. No choice but to rule in his favor. I can live with calling a penalty on myself and now he has to live with what he did. i shook his hand and told him eye to eye " remember, you have to live with this. if in your heart you feel thats right fine but i saw it and you should respect my word. Trust and respect take years to earn and seconds to lose. take care"

He still asked me to sign for his par. I did and will never speak to this person again.

Something my old man taught me before I ever did any Mini Tour Comps---- Always keep yourself above reproach and square your actions. In the case you mentioned if I had been that guy (IMHO he darn well knew what happened) I would have called you over and told you. If it was your opinion that I instead of the wind caused it to fall then I would have taken the penalty. If you had not seen it to keep myself above reproach I would have called it or at least told you as my playing competitor.

 

Exactly. You play enough competitive golf you see it all. The idea of golf is that peer pressure 99.99% of the time keeps you in check as it should.

[JD3]

Surprised with all the video and shot tracer stuff going on, there's no video record of that shot. The guy was relatively high on the leaderboard.

[zenman4711]

You've also got to give Kang the benefit of the doubt because he knows how the shot felt when he hit it. Pros must know as soon as they hit it if they've pushed it right, wiped it right, hit a baby draw, draw or hook. Even from 200 yards out.....

 

You also have to see where JD saw it from as opposed to Kang...

[HitEmTrue]

If you see a player blatantly cheating, aren't you obligated to confront him? Integrity is hard to come by these days, and everyone is quick to criticize. JD did the right thing, glad he saw something wrong and called it. Too bad there's many rules officials enjoying their time inside the ropes more than actually looking for violations.

 

Doing the right thing is signing the card validating his score and then complaining on twitter like he's the American Ian Poulter?

 

Doing the right thing if he 100% believed cheating occurred, wouldn't it be refusing to sign the card and then registering an official protest/complaint with the governing bodies of the tour?

 

Or should all office disputes be solved by twitter "burns"?

 

It already is. Every youtube video is clickbait... every social media post is clickbait. Joel seems to be taking this very personally which has given me pause as to his real motivations. Maybe he just plain dislikes kang? Not signing the card is also a bush league thing to do.I played a tar heel tour event a few years back and drove it into the woods and so did my playing competitior. We were 10 feet apart.i could only chip out sideways he had a shot towards the green that would be 30-40 yards short. As i set up and cocked my wrists to rehearse and see if i had room i flicked a leave on an adjacent bush and it fell. I called a penalty on myself.i then pitched out. My competitor set up, rehearsed a make shift swing lightly clipping the bush and a twig and leaf falls. We end the round and i was keeping score for him and asked him in the tent what he made on 14. he says par... i told him what i saw and he said the wind did that not him. they would have fallen whether he was there or not. I advised the rules committee and they went by the players account as there was nobody there other than us 2. No choice but to rule in his favor. I can live with calling a penalty on myself and now he has to live with what he did. i shook his hand and told him eye to eye " remember, you have to live with this. if in your heart you feel thats right fine but i saw it and you should respect my word. Trust and respect take years to earn and seconds to lose. take care"

He still asked me to sign for his par. I did and will never speak to this person again.

 

Lowball, you knocked one leaf off of a bush? It isn’t necessarily an automatic penalty...check out decision 13-2/0.5

 

 

[NoTalentLefty]

Spongebob accused Plankton of cheating as well.

[soap1984]

Exactly, you know on a shot like that whether you crossed. All the claims about Kang only being slightly less certain than Dehman are silly; Dehman is protecting the field and Kang is trying to cheat.

 

Many of the points being made were already addressed by Dehman regarding why he signed the card and the fact that he wasn't looking for buddies on Twitter; he was asked a question and for once, a pga player other than Jon Daly, gave an honest response.

 

People supporting Kang are talking out of both sides of their mouths. You can never be 100% sure? Yes you can that's just moronic. You are telling me there is no line someone can take on that shot, even 50 yards left of the shot link line, where you couldn't say with 100% certainty that the ball never crossed the line? Regardless, Kang DID say he was 100% sure after he copped to not being 100%; right there that shows you he is, at the very least, a liar since his is the only story that changed.

 

Kang suffered no damages other than to his reputation, but before proving damages he has to prove the claims being made by Dehman are false. The fact is there is not a single piece of evidence to support Kangs version of events other than his own version which is biased by the fact that he has a massive vested interest in the outcome. The rule is based on the Honor system which, when the player isn't honourable, ends up being a poor system.

 

The guys who saw the shot alongside Kang have absolutely no reason to lie about what they saw. Several of them apparently had good views of the shot, most likely better than Kangs.

[lowheel]

If you see a player blatantly cheating, aren't you obligated to confront him? Integrity is hard to come by these days, and everyone is quick to criticize. JD did the right thing, glad he saw something wrong and called it. Too bad there's many rules officials enjoying their time inside the ropes more than actually looking for violations.

 

Doing the right thing is signing the card validating his score and then complaining on twitter like he's the American Ian Poulter?

 

Doing the right thing if he 100% believed cheating occurred, wouldn't it be refusing to sign the card and then registering an official protest/complaint with the governing bodies of the tour?

 

Or should all office disputes be solved by twitter "burns"?

 

It already is. Every youtube video is clickbait... every social media post is clickbait. Joel seems to be taking this very personally which has given me pause as to his real motivations. Maybe he just plain dislikes kang? Not signing the card is also a bush league thing to do.I played a tar heel tour event a few years back and drove it into the woods and so did my playing competitior. We were 10 feet apart.i could only chip out sideways he had a shot towards the green that would be 30-40 yards short. As i set up and cocked my wrists to rehearse and see if i had room i flicked a leave on an adjacent bush and it fell. I called a penalty on myself.i then pitched out. My competitor set up, rehearsed a make shift swing lightly clipping the bush and a twig and leaf falls. We end the round and i was keeping score for him and asked him in the tent what he made on 14. he says par... i told him what i saw and he said the wind did that not him. they would have fallen whether he was there or not. I advised the rules committee and they went by the players account as there was nobody there other than us 2. No choice but to rule in his favor. I can live with calling a penalty on myself and now he has to live with what he did. i shook his hand and told him eye to eye " remember, you have to live with this. if in your heart you feel thats right fine but i saw it and you should respect my word. Trust and respect take years to earn and seconds to lose. take care"

He still asked me to sign for his par. I did and will never speak to this person again.

 

Lowball, you knocked one leaf off of a bush? It isn't necessarily an automatic penalty...check out decision 13-2/0.5

 

It was a bush adjacent to a shorter tree similar to this ( bush on the left). I thought about that caveat for a second but realized it was my own fault and had to penalize myself.

 

[ALIF]

Kang is a cheater. It's pretty obvious he knows exactly what he did. Anyone trying to defend him is ignoring all of the eye witness accounts and Kang's motive.

[zenman4711]

It seems JD likes to be a bit controversial on Twitter :censored2: Also, isn't that Bob guy one of the witnesses on the whole JD/SK saga??

 

I thought this was a joke but he is one of the guys who witnessed it....and WTF with his innuendo about TW and JD retweeting it? Not saying Kang didn't cheat.

[MtlJeff]

It seems JD likes to be a bit controversial on Twitter :censored2: Also, isn't that Bob guy one of the witnesses on the whole JD/SK saga??

 

I thought this was a joke but he is one of the guys who witnessed it....and WTF with his innuendo about TW and JD retweeting it? Not saying Kang didn't cheat.

 

Article on Golf.com said Yosai is a close friend of Dahmen.

 

All part of the damning evidence against Kang

 

Apparently Dahmen's mother just tweeted that Kang is a very very bad boy too

[Ignatius Reilly]

It seems JD likes to be a bit controversial on Twitter :censored2: Also, isn't that Bob guy one of the witnesses on the whole JD/SK saga??

 

I thought this was a joke but he is one of the guys who witnessed it....and WTF with his innuendo about TW and JD retweeting it? Not saying Kang didn't cheat.

 

Article on Golf.com said Yosai is a close friend of Dahmen.

 

All part of the damning evidence against Kang

 

Apparently Dahmen's mother just tweeted that Kang is a very very bad boy too

 

The evidence against Kang is mounting quickly.

 

I read yet another article about the shotlink guy that says he cheated. That's gotta be 30 articles by now....

 

Can we crucify him, or has that gone out of style?

[InTheHole]

I still don't know why all the people who were witnesses on the course had no control of the scorecard.

[Nixhex524]

"Sue for damages....." STOP IT. You sound ridiculous.

 

Why would Dahmen subject himself to this if he didn't believe it to be true? He really had nothing to gain.

[bscinstnct]

74!

 

 

 

[iBanesto]

Drop has approved by a rules official, so Kang did not cheat.

 

Case closed.

[ray9898]

Drop has approved by a rules official, so Kang did not cheat.

 

Case closed.

 

Not really. Drop was 'approved' because there was no independent evidence available to the official, he had to default to the player. That has nothing to do with the continued discussion based on the numerous other witness accounts of what transpired.

[HoffTTM]

Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.

 

Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?

 

Do you even play golf? Seriously.

 

The game is built on integrity and honesty. Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct. Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first. But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%. There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.

 

And the rules official ruled in Kangs favor, not even sure where the grey area is on this. JD is wrong for calling Kang a cheater when a rules official sided with Kang.

 

The official most likely didn't see it and in a standoff situation will always resolve in favour of the player

[iBanesto]

Drop has approved by a rules official, so Kang did not cheat.

 

Case closed.

 

Not really. Drop was 'approved' because there was no independent evidence available to the official, he had to default to the player. That has nothing to do with the continued discussion based on the numerous other witness accounts of what transpired.

 

As there is no independent evidence, accordingly Dahmen's account could be wrong as well.

 

It seems some people are willing to accept Dahmen is right in this matter, when his opinion is clearly as subjective as Kang's.

[MtlJeff]

74!

 

 

No witnesses though, I demand proof....or the hotdogs should sue for libel

[ray9898]

 

As there is no independent evidence, accordingly Dahmen's account could be wrong as well.

 

It seems some people are willing to accept Dahmen is right in this matter, when his opinion is clearly as subjective as Kang's.

 

Correct....but we are talking about multiple people which include a competitor and 2 people working the tournament At some point the scale tips.

[sui generis]

As there is no independent evidence, accordingly Dahmen's account could be wrong as well.

 

It seems some people are willing to accept Dahmen is right in this matter, when his opinion is clearly as subjective as Kang's.

 

Correct....but we are talking about multiple people which include a competitor and 2 people working the tournament At some point the scale tips.

 

Eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. (Look it up.) There are two reliable sources of information (the players) and they simply disagree. The referee is the arbiter. That one player chose to run his yap on Twitter is a sad commentary on his level of judgement and maturity.

[ray9898]

Eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. (Look it up.) There are two reliable sources of information (the players) and they simply disagree. The referee is the arbiter. That one player chose to run his yap on Twitter is a sad commentary on his level of judgement and maturity.

 

Yeah....the marshal who probably observed every shot hit on that hole all day is unreliable. Also, the very guy the tournament put in charge of tracking and plotting the results of each shot hit on that hole is also unreliable....when they all saw the same thing as the competitor.

 

HAHA....some of you are killing me! :rofl:

[MtlJeff]

Eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. (Look it up.) There are two reliable sources of information (the players) and they simply disagree. The referee is the arbiter. That one player chose to run his yap on Twitter is a sad commentary on his level of judgement and maturity.

 

Yeah....the marshal who probably observed every shot hit on that hole all day is unreliable. Also, the very guy the tournament put in charge of tracking and plotting the results of each shot hit on that hole is also unreliable....when they all saw the same thing as the competitor.

 

HAHA....some of you are killing me! :rofl:

 

"The very guy the tournament put in charge of tracking shots?"

 

You mean the volunteer shotlink operator?