AT&T Pebble Beach

[Roadking2003]

AT&T Pro AM, what a crock. I understand that someone has to win, but, when does a 13 HCP shoot 15 under on a course set up for a professional tournament. HCP are a potential of your capabilities. How does an AM shoot that far below their HCP. SANDBAGGER mean anything?

 

What were his scores?

[TeeShive]

What is the prize for the winner of the team event? Does the pro get a cash bonus?

[Jackhammer993]

Hypothetically how could Phil lose? Most likely scenario would be on 17 he gets a bogey to Casey’s birdie to cut the margin to 1 and than on 18 Casey birdies to Mickeksons par to force a tie and than Casey wins in a playoff. More likely scenario is is both par the 17th and than Phil tees off with iron on 18 and pars for the win. If I was off work I would head down to watch and than do some hiking around 17 mile drive since it is free to get in today. Phil needs to git er done. Go Phil!

[TheMoneyShot]

Let’s go Phil, bring it home today!!

[bladehunter]

AT&T Pro AM, what a crock. I understand that someone has to win, but, when does a 13 HCP shoot 15 under on a course set up for a professional tournament. HCP are a potential of your capabilities. How does an AM shoot that far below their HCP. SANDBAGGER mean anything?

 

What were his scores?

 

Aren’t they at -30 or something as a team ?

[bogeypro]

Your team could have 24 bridies and 12 pars and only be at -12 while another team can shoot 13 birdies and 5 pars and 18 bogies and beat you at -13.

You might want to check your golf scoring math.

 

12 birdies and 6 pars = -12

13 birdies and 5 pars = -13

What am I missing?

Using numbers per your post above........

 

24 birdies, 12 pars equals -24

13 birdies, 5 pars, 18 bogies equals +5

 

It’s best ball

 

Best ball Explained:

 

you take the best score for the hole. 24 birdies and 12 pars means team one shot -24.

 

There could several different scores for team 2 in your example, depending on which holes and who had the birdies, pars, and bogies. If you birdie and your partner makes bogey, you count the birdie (called ham n egging it).

[Rangeballz]

So I'm assuming Stallings is still on the premises, correct?

[USCHawks31]

Best ball Explained:

 

you take the best score for the hole. 24 birdies and 12 pars means team one shot -24.

 

There could several different scores for team 2 in your example, depending on which holes and who had the birdies, pars, and bogies. If you birdie and your partner makes bogey, you count the birdie (called ham n egging it).

 

You're kidding, right? Obviously he/she was saying that it's possible to only birdie 12 holes with 24 birdies between the two teammates, assuming they both birdied the same 12 holes. Unlikely? Obviously. But it's technically possible.

[USAF Retired E7]

 

I live on the west coast too and it was pretty dark here and I'm further west than Pebble Beach. Don't forget to factor in cloud cover as well. I'm going to side with the TV guys who were there.

 

How are you west of Pebble. Do you live on a boat? :swoon:

[Shakespeare]

^^^^^^ I as m going to give you an A for your geography call out...and also an A for realizing there is only water west of pebble for at least several hundred miles

[Titleist_PT23]

Hypothetically how could Phil lose? Most likely scenario would be on 17 he gets a bogey to Casey’s birdie to cut the margin to 1 and than on 18 Casey birdies to Mickeksons par to force a tie and than Casey wins in a playoff. More likely scenario is is both par the 17th and than Phil tees off with iron on 18 and pars for the win. If I was off work I would head down to watch and than do some hiking around 17 mile drive since it is free to get in today. Phil needs to git er done. Go Phil!

There is obviously a much greater than not chance Phil wins.

 

Biggest thing may be Phil's putter. This can come and go for someone his age day to day. On the full swings, he just needs to keep it on the course but I'd hate from him to have two 4-5 footers for par combined with a Casey birdie or two.

 

I hope he wins too but you never know until it's over. He's done things in the past that didn't seem possible.

 

[TheGeekGolfer]

^^^^^^ I as m going to give you an A for your geography call out...and also an A for realizing there is only water west of pebble for at least several hundred miles

 

 

I live on the west coast too and it was pretty dark here and I'm further west than Pebble Beach. Don't forget to factor in cloud cover as well. I'm going to side with the TV guys who were there.

 

How are you west of Pebble. Do you live on a boat? :swoon:

I'd say, based on his username, he's on the southern coast of Oregon. Which technically is further west than Pebble. Also, it stays lighter later up here. So, there's that factor also.

[bogeypro]

Best ball Explained:

 

you take the best score for the hole. 24 birdies and 12 pars means team one shot -24.

 

There could several different scores for team 2 in your example, depending on which holes and who had the birdies, pars, and bogies. If you birdie and your partner makes bogey, you count the birdie (called ham n egging it).

 

You're kidding, right? Obviously he/she was saying that it's possible to only birdie 12 holes with 24 birdies between the two teammates, assuming they both birdied the same 12 holes. Unlikely? Obviously. But it's technically possible.

 

Yep that’s possible. A friend and I got beat several ago under the same circumstance. We had a ton of birdies, but on the same holes. We got beat by two guys with less holes, but on alternate holes. Sucks, but it happens.

 

 

[MattyO1984]

Got to say, I am hugely impressed with Phil thus far in 2019.

 

I had written him off after his play turned terrible following on from the win in Mexico last March but he has come into 2019 with his A Game it would seem. He should have won at the Bob Hope and I realise that 2 holes to play is still plenty of time for Phil (in particular) to mess up but I can't see it happening. He said after the win in Mexico that he would get to 50 wins before he is done, I still can't see that happening but I doubted that he would get even one more.

[dlygrisse]

Got to say, I am hugely impressed with Phil thus far in 2019.

 

I had written him off after his play turned terrible following on from the win in Mexico last March but he has come into 2019 with his A Game it would seem. He should have won at the Bob Hope and I realise that 2 holes to play is still plenty of time for Phil (in particular) to mess up but I can't see it happening. He said after the win in Mexico that he would get to 50 wins before he is done, I still can't see that happening but I doubted that he would get even one more.

 

Phil's entire career has been that way. He's never been world #1, he's never won more than 4 times on tour, he goes from playing the best golf in the world to MC. He makes more biridies than anyone then he makes tons of "others".

 

It's just Phil being Phil....he'll probably win an event at 55 and miss the next 5 cuts.

[Shakespeare]

^^^^^^ I as m going to give you an A for your geography call out...and also an A for realizing there is only water west of pebble for at least several hundred miles

 

 

I live on the west coast too and it was pretty dark here and I'm further west than Pebble Beach. Don't forget to factor in cloud cover as well. I'm going to side with the TV guys who were there.

 

How are you west of Pebble. Do you live on a boat? :swoon:

I'd say, based on his username, he's on the southern coast of Oregon. Which technically is further west than Pebble. Also, it stays lighter later up here. So, there's that factor also.

Theat should have been his post...an A for you as well

[Roadking2003]

AT&T Pro AM, what a crock. I understand that someone has to win, but, when does a 13 HCP shoot 15 under on a course set up for a professional tournament. HCP are a potential of your capabilities. How does an AM shoot that far below their HCP. SANDBAGGER mean anything?

 

What were his scores?

 

Aren't they at -30 or something as a team ?

 

But to comment on sandbagging, we need to know his gross scores.

[bladehunter]

So I'm assuming Stallings is still on the premises, correct?

Meh probably is but all he’s going to get to do is fist bump Phil.

 

AT&T Pro AM, what a crock. I understand that someone has to win, but, when does a 13 HCP shoot 15 under on a course set up for a professional tournament. HCP are a potential of your capabilities. How does an AM shoot that far below their HCP. SANDBAGGER mean anything?

 

What were his scores?

 

Aren't they at -30 or something as a team ?

 

But to comment on sandbagging, we need to know his gross scores.

 

Im sure scoring is listed somewhere. Pretty easy to dissect vs Casey’s card. No. ?

[Roadking2003]

Hypothetically how could Phil lose? Most likely scenario would be on 17 he gets a bogey to Casey's birdie to cut the margin to 1 and than on 18 Casey birdies to Mickeksons par to force a tie and than Casey wins in a playoff. More likely scenario is is both par the 17th and than Phil tees off with iron on 18 and pars for the win. If I was off work I would head down to watch and than do some hiking around 17 mile drive since it is free to get in today. Phil needs to git er done. Go Phil!

 

Quite easy. If Phil does a Spieth and finishes bogey, double bogey, he might lose.

[OnOff]

Got to say, I am hugely impressed with Phil thus far in 2019.

 

I had written him off after his play turned terrible following on from the win in Mexico last March but he has come into 2019 with his A Game it would seem. He should have won at the Bob Hope and I realise that 2 holes to play is still plenty of time for Phil (in particular) to mess up but I can't see it happening. He said after the win in Mexico that he would get to 50 wins before he is done, I still can't see that happening but I doubted that he would get even one more.

 

Phil's entire career has been that way. He's never been world #1, he's never won more than 4 times on tour, he goes from playing the best golf in the world to MC. He makes more biridies than anyone then he makes tons of "others".

 

It's just Phil being Phil....he'll probably win an event at 55 and miss the next 5 cuts.

 

I think that's a good take on Phil except for the missed cut part. Phil hasn't miss a lot of cuts in his career compared to other stars not named Tiger. I think because he's Phil, we notice them more.

[widow-maker]

Hypothetically how could Phil lose? Most likely scenario would be on 17 he gets a bogey to Casey's birdie to cut the margin to 1 and than on 18 Casey birdies to Mickeksons par to force a tie and than Casey wins in a playoff. More likely scenario is is both par the 17th and than Phil tees off with iron on 18 and pars for the win. If I was off work I would head down to watch and than do some hiking around 17 mile drive since it is free to get in today. Phil needs to git er done. Go Phil!

There is obviously a much greater than not chance Phil wins.

 

Biggest thing may be Phil's putter. This can come and go for someone his age day to day. On the full swings, he just needs to keep it on the course but I'd hate from him to have two 4-5 footers for par combined with a Casey birdie or two.

 

I hope he wins too but you never know until it's over. He's done things in the past that didn't seem possible.

I think it's to Phil's advantage that they stopped playing last night. Casey only wins if Phil has a disaster hole. Much easier to have a disaster hole when you're playing in the dark. I understand Phil probably wanted to fly home last night, but I think his chances of winning are better going back out there this morning and playing smart for 2 holes.

[deadsolid...shank]

AT&T Pro AM, what a crock. I understand that someone has to win, but, when does a 13 HCP shoot 15 under on a course set up for a professional tournament. HCP are a potential of your capabilities. How does an AM shoot that far below their HCP. SANDBAGGER mean anything?

 

What were his scores?

 

Aren't they at -30 or something as a team ?

 

But to comment on sandbagging, we need to know his gross scores.

 

You really don’t though. Everyone who has been around the game for a while knows that guys who really manipulate their handicap are especially talented at working it in any type of best ball scenario. Really easy to have a four in the bag and “suddenly” card a six when your partner holes a long one out of the blue.

 

When questioning this particular handicap I think the eye test, combined with the current handicap card is more telling than any gross score.

 

RK, did you see the handicap card posted earlier, and note the range of scores?

[Hawkeye77]

Ive watched it this year. It's been good. Reason - you would hardly know its an "AM", hardly any Bill Murray (being British I clearly don't think he's funny at all). I only realized today Tony Romo wasn't the head of the rib chain.

 

Casey by 3

 

Loving the scenery and the weather.

 

Have you seen Groundhog Day? Rushmore ? Ghostbusters? Stripes? Tootsie? Kingpin?

 

Certainly Groundhog Day for Casey as he looks to have let another 54-hole lead slip.

 

Ditto on Bill Murray, I'll add Caddyshack and What About Bob?

 

And Bob Goulet's Old Fashioned Cajun Christmas!

[Hawkeye77]

I sure wish my GHIN app was working, it would be interesting to look at his history (yes, that’s a hint for someone to do it)!

 

Got a PM from Phil. He says Hamm's for everyone in this thread in his room tonight!!!

 

I messaged back he needs to tap the brakes. He hasn't won yet.

 

:)

 

He’s over at Motel 6 right? Said he’d leave the light on.

1/19 92 69.3/132 19.4 * H 12/18 90 71.1/134 15.9 H 12/18 91 69.3/132 18.6 H 12/18 93 71.1/134 18.5 H 12/18 92 71.1/134 17.6 H 12/18 94 71.1/134 19.3 * H 12/18 90 71.1/134 15.9 H 11/18 92 71.1/134 17.6 * H 11/18 90 71.1/134 15.9 * H 11/18 91 71.1/134 16.8 H 11/18 96 71.6/133 20.7 H 11/18 93 71.3/132 18.6 * H 10/18 88 71.1/134 14.3 * H 10/18 91 71.1/134 16.8 H 10/18 98 69.4/132 24.5 H 10/18 92 71.1/134 17.6 * H 10/18 91 71.1/134 16.8 * H 8/18 89 69.3/132 16.9 * A 7/18 87 71.1/134 13.4 * H 6/18 87 69.0/122 16.7

 

Thanks so much. Less than a 10shot spread (unless I missed something) for a teen handicapper. Remarkably consistent. Hmm........

 

Looks like a lot of high scores were loaded late in the season in preparation for PB, pushing out the good ones - or he went to see Leadbetter.

[kcsf]

Man, Phil is a beacon of light for us older codgers! I really like Casey, but here's hoping Phil walks away with the trophy.

 

Phil is one month older than me.

 

Gives me hope.

 

Fellow 48er here. Go olds!

[Hawkeye77]

Hypothetically how could Phil lose? Most likely scenario would be on 17 he gets a bogey to Casey's birdie to cut the margin to 1 and than on 18 Casey birdies to Mickeksons par to force a tie and than Casey wins in a playoff. More likely scenario is is both par the 17th and than Phil tees off with iron on 18 and pars for the win. If I was off work I would head down to watch and than do some hiking around 17 mile drive since it is free to get in today. Phil needs to git er done. Go Phil!

There is obviously a much greater than not chance Phil wins.

 

Biggest thing may be Phil's putter. This can come and go for someone his age day to day. On the full swings, he just needs to keep it on the course but I'd hate from him to have two 4-5 footers for par combined with a Casey birdie or two.

 

I hope he wins too but you never know until it's over. He's done things in the past that didn't seem possible.

I think it's to Phil's advantage that they stopped playing last night. Casey only wins if Phil has a disaster hole. Much easier to have a disaster hole when you're playing in the dark. I understand Phil probably wanted to fly home last night, but I think his chances of winning are better going back out there this morning and playing smart for 2 holes.

 

I don't think it will matter, but he was in a zone and liked his chances of a good tee shot and good putting on 17. He just wanted that iron in the fairway on 18 . . . .

 

I think he'd have sealed the deal last night and he knew Casey was already uncomfortable. Again, not a big deal to wait and he knew he wasn't getting done, but, not being the biggest Phil fan, I enjoyed the way he was playing his hand, so to speak, until Paul finally called it quits (which he should have).

[kcsf]

Of course you will, and some of will be unfounded, there are always a few just plain old sore losers, but to lump everyone (especially many of those speaking here, ie Obee and Blade) as a loser because they’re talking about it......

 

Maybe you misread it, but wasn't implying that posters here were losers.

 

I’m sure you weren’t meaning to, but right after a string of posts about Collamder and his handicap you say “losers complain about sandbaggers”.

 

It’s difficult to not read it that way.

 

DS, yours is one way to interpret what he wrote but I saw it as anyone who didn't win (ie lost--->losers) lost because the winners are sandbaggers.

[Titleist_PT23]

Hypothetically how could Phil lose? Most likely scenario would be on 17 he gets a bogey to Casey's birdie to cut the margin to 1 and than on 18 Casey birdies to Mickeksons par to force a tie and than Casey wins in a playoff. More likely scenario is is both par the 17th and than Phil tees off with iron on 18 and pars for the win. If I was off work I would head down to watch and than do some hiking around 17 mile drive since it is free to get in today. Phil needs to git er done. Go Phil!

There is obviously a much greater than not chance Phil wins.

 

Biggest thing may be Phil's putter. This can come and go for someone his age day to day. On the full swings, he just needs to keep it on the course but I'd hate from him to have two 4-5 footers for par combined with a Casey birdie or two.

 

I hope he wins too but you never know until it's over. He's done things in the past that didn't seem possible.

I think it's to Phil's advantage that they stopped playing last night. Casey only wins if Phil has a disaster hole. Much easier to have a disaster hole when you're playing in the dark. I understand Phil probably wanted to fly home last night, but I think his chances of winning are better going back out there this morning and playing smart for 2 holes.

 

I don't think it will matter, but he was in a zone and liked his chances of a good tee shot and good putting on 17. He just wanted that iron in the fairway on 18 . . . .

 

I think he'd have sealed the deal last night and he knew Casey was already uncomfortable. Again, not a big deal to wait and he knew he wasn't getting done, but, not being the biggest Phil fan, I enjoyed the way he was playing his hand, so to speak, until Paul finally called it quits (which he should have).

I'm surprised Phil keeps saying the "right things" in interviews (here and the 2014 PGA Championship with Rory hitting up twice).

 

Obviously, it is a big deal to him, as you can see the fumes coming out of his head.

 

Maybe he's just making a smart "business decision" (sponsors, etc) but there's definitely been times when he's not shy.

 

Although we all know Phil would be doing the exact opposite in both cases had his position been reversed...

[JustTheTips]

 

Yep that's possible. A friend and I got beat several ago under the same circumstance. We had a ton of birdies, but on the same holes. We got beat by two guys with less holes, but on alternate holes. Sucks, but it happens.

 

The high level point in this is that winning is more than amateur playing good golf. It is doing it at the right time. Have 2 birdies a round when your pro gets a bogie and you are at -16 for the tournament. 2 adjusted birdies for a 13 isn't much of a stretch. Having them happen at the right time though is. That is were luck comes in. A 13 winning the tournament is likely to be playing slightly above his average (i.e. maybe gets 4 adjusted birdies/round instead of the expected 3) and then it is just a matter of if the birdies happen at the right time. It would be interesting to know how many natural birdies/pars this guy has had versus every other 10-15 in the field. Is he playing abnormally good (top 5% of expected results) or is he playing good (top 25% results) and being lucky.

 

But yeah the guys scores look really consistent. Maybe that is his game or the course he plays at.

[deadsolid...shank]

Of course you will, and some of will be unfounded, there are always a few just plain old sore losers, but to lump everyone (especially many of those speaking here, ie Obee and Blade) as a loser because they’re talking about it......

 

Maybe you misread it, but wasn't implying that posters here were losers.

 

I’m sure you weren’t meaning to, but right after a string of posts about Collamder and his handicap you say “losers complain about sandbaggers”.

 

It’s difficult to not read it that way.

 

DS, yours is one way to interpret what he wrote but I saw it as anyone who didn't win (ie lost--->losers) lost because the winners are sandbaggers.

 

I completely understand that, and agree that does happen often. I think I did allude to sore losers, and obviously there are plenty out there.

 

I took exception to lumping everyone into that category. None of us here (even though many of us ((especially me)) might actually be losers), aren’t actually losing in this event. So no reason for it to be personal. Just a lot of people, many who have been around the game for a while, making observations about something that doesn’t look kosher. We well might be losers, but it’s nit because we’re complaining about his handicap.