Head Cover Drama. Who's the Jerk?

[LeoLeo99]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @tatertot said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > > @cardoustie said:

> > > > > > > > > Love the stories on here

> > > > > > > > > I was in a fight on a course when I was 17 or 18 and only because a kid charged me throwing windmill punches. 35 years ago and I still recall it

> > > > > > > > > Anyways, the last time a guy really aggravated me was on the patio after a round. He's a loudmouth nobody likes, incessant talker, not funny but thinks he is, overly loud, etc etc. Anyways, he keeps calling me "Tiny" over and over again. I don't know this guy that well. Friend of friend sort of deal. Anyways, I just said quietly to him these exact words "Hey Don, one of these days you are going to call me Tiny and I will either be in a bad mood or will have had a few cocktails and it will not end well for you."

> > > > > > > > > He's been a prince ever since

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Just curious. Obviously you're a pretty big guy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Instead of the obvious threat, is there any reason you couldn't have just said " If you don't mind, I'd rather you didn't call me "Tiny"" ? At least as a 1st attempt ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nah. Guys like that don’t listen to polite reason. You have to meet a bully with the language he understands. **He’d have 99.9% likely tested him with an immediate repeat of the pet name.** At that point there nearly no choice. Why back yourself into that corner ? Just be plain and straight as he was. So that if it doesn’t stop he cannot act surprised that he’s suddenly having a bad afternoon. He will think “ oh shat. He wasn’t joking , this hurts “. I believe in politely but positively letting people know where the line is. Your suggestion does that. But. It doesn’t list the consequence for crossing the line. Some people just have to have it spelled out. Sad. But true.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **That’s not to say that threats of violence are often the correct language either. Only as a last resort. ** But. You have to be blunt. People who see nothing wrong with name calling , or singling out the same folks constantly for their amusement , wont heed a polite request. I generally grin and take it. It’s one of those instances I’ve described as when someone mistakes silence for weakness or complicity. Then when the last straw is broken , that person plays the part of the shocked victim who has no idea that they were offending anyone. It’s just an odd conundrum , people that is. We’re all taught to try to get along. So we take certain amounts of everything. But when it’s goes too far the person who is the instigator is rarely The one who ends up being held accountable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So you're a mind reader too ? LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Only as a last resort". That's what you just said. What about his story gave you ANY indication there was no other choice and it was as a last resort ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You seem to feel very strongly both ways.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes I am a people watcher by nature. And think very strongly in several directions all the time. Very few hard absolutes in this world. But many many 99.9% cases. Always be careful of the .1% guy. He’s a tricky one to pin down.

> > > > >

> > > > > As for his story. Hard to say. I took it to mean that he’d reached his point of fill. At that point it can be said that choices have ran out. And action is the next step. Of course action is a choice. As is continued inaction . But when you desire the result to change you are pretty much left with the one option. To continue the same and expect a different out come is after all , the definition of nuts.

> > > >

> > > > That's a lot of words to basically say nothing. So by your non-answer I can only assume there was NOTHING in the story that gave any indication this was a last resort (your terminology & presumed "trigger").

> > > >

> > > > Attack first (just in case), apologize (if necessary) later.

> > > >

> > > > ~~Gotcha !!!~~ Understood !!! (<---edited since the "Gotcha" seems to have been misinterpreted (<----- see how EASY that sort of thing is ? LOL))

> > >

> > > Man, you've convinced me. You really are smarter and more advanced than the rest of us blockheads. Thanks for gracing us with your superiorness.

> >

> > You get the sense that he never not got in trouble at school because he never talked back to the bully.

> >

> > Of course, he never had any lunch money either....

>

> Funny but one might get the sense that you actually were the bully,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

>

> Despite what some people (apparently) think it's really not all that hard to get along with most people.

 

Blade made it clear that there are some among us that don't respond to being nice. Then it's time to not be nice.

 

I had a boss like that. He pushed and pushed me. Until I threatened him with bodily harm. Then he seemed to respect me more. People like this are sociopaths and normal behavior doesn't work.

[Outpost31]

> @nsxguy said:

> Am I the only one who thinks this thread didn't go exactly like the OP thought it would ? LMAO

>

> 

>

 

What's this gif from? The dude that jumps out of the window really looks like he took an unplanned spill! LOL

[HitEmTrue]

> @Outpost31 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > Am I the only one who thinks this thread didn't go exactly like the OP thought it would ? LMAO

> >

> > 

> >

>

> What's this gif from? The dude that jumps out of the window really looks like he took an unplanned spill! LOL

 

I think it’s Bourne Identity.

 

[bladehunter]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @tatertot said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > > @cardoustie said:

> > > > > > > > > Love the stories on here

> > > > > > > > > I was in a fight on a course when I was 17 or 18 and only because a kid charged me throwing windmill punches. 35 years ago and I still recall it

> > > > > > > > > Anyways, the last time a guy really aggravated me was on the patio after a round. He's a loudmouth nobody likes, incessant talker, not funny but thinks he is, overly loud, etc etc. Anyways, he keeps calling me "Tiny" over and over again. I don't know this guy that well. Friend of friend sort of deal. Anyways, I just said quietly to him these exact words "Hey Don, one of these days you are going to call me Tiny and I will either be in a bad mood or will have had a few cocktails and it will not end well for you."

> > > > > > > > > He's been a prince ever since

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Just curious. Obviously you're a pretty big guy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Instead of the obvious threat, is there any reason you couldn't have just said " If you don't mind, I'd rather you didn't call me "Tiny"" ? At least as a 1st attempt ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nah. Guys like that don’t listen to polite reason. You have to meet a bully with the language he understands. **He’d have 99.9% likely tested him with an immediate repeat of the pet name.** At that point there nearly no choice. Why back yourself into that corner ? Just be plain and straight as he was. So that if it doesn’t stop he cannot act surprised that he’s suddenly having a bad afternoon. He will think “ oh shat. He wasn’t joking , this hurts “. I believe in politely but positively letting people know where the line is. Your suggestion does that. But. It doesn’t list the consequence for crossing the line. Some people just have to have it spelled out. Sad. But true.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **That’s not to say that threats of violence are often the correct language either. Only as a last resort. ** But. You have to be blunt. People who see nothing wrong with name calling , or singling out the same folks constantly for their amusement , wont heed a polite request. I generally grin and take it. It’s one of those instances I’ve described as when someone mistakes silence for weakness or complicity. Then when the last straw is broken , that person plays the part of the shocked victim who has no idea that they were offending anyone. It’s just an odd conundrum , people that is. We’re all taught to try to get along. So we take certain amounts of everything. But when it’s goes too far the person who is the instigator is rarely The one who ends up being held accountable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So you're a mind reader too ? LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Only as a last resort". That's what you just said. What about his story gave you ANY indication there was no other choice and it was as a last resort ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You seem to feel very strongly both ways.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes I am a people watcher by nature. And think very strongly in several directions all the time. Very few hard absolutes in this world. But many many 99.9% cases. Always be careful of the .1% guy. He’s a tricky one to pin down.

> > > > >

> > > > > As for his story. Hard to say. I took it to mean that he’d reached his point of fill. At that point it can be said that choices have ran out. And action is the next step. Of course action is a choice. As is continued inaction . But when you desire the result to change you are pretty much left with the one option. To continue the same and expect a different out come is after all , the definition of nuts.

> > > >

> > > > That's a lot of words to basically say nothing. So by your non-answer I can only assume there was NOTHING in the story that gave any indication this was a last resort (your terminology & presumed "trigger").

> > > >

> > > > Attack first (just in case), apologize (if necessary) later.

> > > >

> > > > ~~Gotcha !!!~~ Understood !!! (<---edited since the "Gotcha" seems to have been misinterpreted (<----- see how EASY that sort of thing is ? LOL))

> > >

> > > Man, you've convinced me. You really are smarter and more advanced than the rest of us blockheads. Thanks for gracing us with your superiorness.

> >

> > You get the sense that he never not got in trouble at school because he never talked back to the bully.

> >

> > Of course, he never had any lunch money either....

>

> Funny but one might get the sense that you actually were the bully,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

>

> Despite what some people (apparently) think it's really not all that hard to get along with most people.

 

Dude. I envy that outlook. While I do have loads of guys and gals here ( yourself included ) that I get on with just fine .... we all have a common interest and a set of rules to keep us in line. In everyday life the only way I have that experience is to be quiet and take most blowhards behavior. And I find that Leo’s description of sociopaths is correct. My own father in law pushed me to this about 15 years ago. And once I blew up and said “ enough “ plus a few choice threats , he’s stayed off me ever since. Why ? Because he saw that I had it in me and he didn’t want to see that side again. I again hate that it had to be that way. But it’s a long story of his verbal abuse , and I was pushed to the point of wanting to beat the brakes off his rude a**.

[neillmacparguy]

Sounds like egos were involved by both of you. I’d never touch a fellow players clubs without asking. I agree with previous posters that you both are too old to be catching charges for a fight. All that said if you two made a wager the loser of said wager should have paid up.

[golfortennis]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @tatertot said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > > @cardoustie said:

> > > > > > > > > Love the stories on here

> > > > > > > > > I was in a fight on a course when I was 17 or 18 and only because a kid charged me throwing windmill punches. 35 years ago and I still recall it

> > > > > > > > > Anyways, the last time a guy really aggravated me was on the patio after a round. He's a loudmouth nobody likes, incessant talker, not funny but thinks he is, overly loud, etc etc. Anyways, he keeps calling me "Tiny" over and over again. I don't know this guy that well. Friend of friend sort of deal. Anyways, I just said quietly to him these exact words "Hey Don, one of these days you are going to call me Tiny and I will either be in a bad mood or will have had a few cocktails and it will not end well for you."

> > > > > > > > > He's been a prince ever since

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Just curious. Obviously you're a pretty big guy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Instead of the obvious threat, is there any reason you couldn't have just said " If you don't mind, I'd rather you didn't call me "Tiny"" ? At least as a 1st attempt ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nah. Guys like that don’t listen to polite reason. You have to meet a bully with the language he understands. **He’d have 99.9% likely tested him with an immediate repeat of the pet name.** At that point there nearly no choice. Why back yourself into that corner ? Just be plain and straight as he was. So that if it doesn’t stop he cannot act surprised that he’s suddenly having a bad afternoon. He will think “ oh shat. He wasn’t joking , this hurts “. I believe in politely but positively letting people know where the line is. Your suggestion does that. But. It doesn’t list the consequence for crossing the line. Some people just have to have it spelled out. Sad. But true.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **That’s not to say that threats of violence are often the correct language either. Only as a last resort. ** But. You have to be blunt. People who see nothing wrong with name calling , or singling out the same folks constantly for their amusement , wont heed a polite request. I generally grin and take it. It’s one of those instances I’ve described as when someone mistakes silence for weakness or complicity. Then when the last straw is broken , that person plays the part of the shocked victim who has no idea that they were offending anyone. It’s just an odd conundrum , people that is. We’re all taught to try to get along. So we take certain amounts of everything. But when it’s goes too far the person who is the instigator is rarely The one who ends up being held accountable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So you're a mind reader too ? LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Only as a last resort". That's what you just said. What about his story gave you ANY indication there was no other choice and it was as a last resort ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You seem to feel very strongly both ways.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes I am a people watcher by nature. And think very strongly in several directions all the time. Very few hard absolutes in this world. But many many 99.9% cases. Always be careful of the .1% guy. He’s a tricky one to pin down.

> > > > >

> > > > > As for his story. Hard to say. I took it to mean that he’d reached his point of fill. At that point it can be said that choices have ran out. And action is the next step. Of course action is a choice. As is continued inaction . But when you desire the result to change you are pretty much left with the one option. To continue the same and expect a different out come is after all , the definition of nuts.

> > > >

> > > > That's a lot of words to basically say nothing. So by your non-answer I can only assume there was NOTHING in the story that gave any indication this was a last resort (your terminology & presumed "trigger").

> > > >

> > > > Attack first (just in case), apologize (if necessary) later.

> > > >

> > > > ~~Gotcha !!!~~ Understood !!! (<---edited since the "Gotcha" seems to have been misinterpreted (<----- see how EASY that sort of thing is ? LOL))

> > >

> > > Man, you've convinced me. You really are smarter and more advanced than the rest of us blockheads. Thanks for gracing us with your superiorness.

> >

> > You get the sense that he never not got in trouble at school because he never talked back to the bully.

> >

> > Of course, he never had any lunch money either....

>

> Funny but one might get the sense that you actually were the bully,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

>

> Despite what some people (apparently) think it's really not all that hard to get along with most people.

 

Here's the problem: you assume people are like you and I. But people like you and I don't go and grab someone else's clubs without asking. We don't go calling people by a name like card's story. And we sure as F*&K don't go sit on someone else's vehicle while we are tailgating. We can listen to reason because our starting point is one of reasonableness. People who think it's ok to do the stuff I just mentioned, aren't there. Polite words don't convey the situation. You need to get their attention.

 

Nope, I wasn't the bully. I was a big kid, but this small kid in class ahead of me used to come up to me in the school yard, hook his right leg around mine, and knock me down. I laughed it off because I was bigger than him, and knew anytime I wanted to I could reverse course. But confrontation wasn't in my nature back then(still really isn't, but I'm more likely to stand my ground now than back then), so I just let it happen. But one day I got tired of him doing it, so I just planted, grabbed his shoulders an did it to him. He never came back to me again. Maybe you think, in all your enlightenment, that "please don't do that" would have stopped him, but then again, an enlightened person doesn't think and follow through on tripping someone out of the blue in the first place.

 

I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

[North Butte]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

 

In the vast majority of normal, everyday interactions a person's own self-interest is almost always best served by walking away rather than escalating, responding in kind or otherwise engaging with the offender. The urge to respond is borne out of a desire for retribution, punishment or defense of ones sense of honor. The idea that it will somehow deter the offender from future actions is mere rationalization.

 

Put more simply, to respond aggressively to a minor provocations is to choose short-term gratification or satisfaction over actual self-interest.

[golfortennis]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

>

> In the vast majority of normal, everyday interactions a person's own self-interest is almost always best served by walking away rather than escalating, responding in kind or otherwise engaging with the offender. The urge to respond is borne out of a desire for retribution, punishment or defense of ones sense of honor. The idea that it will somehow deter the offender from future actions is mere rationalization.

>

> Put more simply, to respond aggressively to a minor provocations is to choose short-term gratification or satisfaction over actual self-interest.

 

I don't disagree. I'm not saying every infraction requires a response. But I am saying that if you want something to stop, with some people, "please don't do that" is not going to get a result. And if it is something that keeps happening to you, eventually you hit your breaking point. A one-off, sure, slough it off. But if someone sees you as a target for continual abuse, your choices are limited. Take it, or deal with it. Because why should you find a new club/new time to play because of the a&&hat?

 

And my self-interest is that it stops happening to me. I don't give a crap if he starts doing it to you, so long as he stops doing it to me.

 

 

[North Butte]

Are you talking about the original guy looking under the headcovers?

 

That doesn't mean finding a different club or course. Just don't play with the guy. A guy like that, there are no doubt a dozen other reasons to avoid anyway.

 

[Ty_Webb]

> @Bluefan75 said:

Maybe you think, in all your enlightenment, that "please don't do that" would have stopped him, but then again, an enlightened person doesn't think and follow through on tripping someone out of the blue in the first place.

 

Isn't the point more that saying "please don't do that" might have stopped him? Sure there are plenty of jerks out there who it won't stop, but there are also plenty of people who are trying to be nice, but are clueless. I have no doubt that there are people out there who think it's okay to take a look at someone else's clubs. It doesn't mean that they're evil and need to be responded to with violence. It could well mean that they just don't know and don't think they're doing anything wrong. If they're like that then reacting with violence is just plain wrong. Setting them straight sensibly and politely is a far better option that is much less likely to place you in an awkward conversation with some officers of the law. And the great thing about saying "please don't do that" is that you aren't preventing yourself the opportunity to subsequently escalate it if you need to. There's no need to immediately jump to the top of the list. You can work your way up. 99% of the time you won't have to. I've been playing for a long time and I've never come across anyone I've even had to think about threatening, let alone trying to hit them.

 

For all of you thinking that that's the right way to react, what if the person who did it also thinks like you. Are you going to threaten them and then turn your back on them while they've got a bag of their own with 14 potentially lethal weapons in it? Doesn't strike me as that smart.

 

As to the OP, I would think the best way to have reacted would have been to put your headcovers back on, say you're not a poser, but that you found them at the local goodwill shop and you thought they looked nice.

[nsxguy]

> @Ty_Webb said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> Maybe you think, in all your enlightenment, that "please don't do that" would have stopped him, but then again, an enlightened person doesn't think and follow through on tripping someone out of the blue in the first place.

>

> Isn't the point more that saying "please don't do that" might have stopped him? Sure there are plenty of jerks out there who it won't stop, but there are also plenty of people who are trying to be nice, but are clueless. I have no doubt that there are people out there who think it's okay to take a look at someone else's clubs. It doesn't mean that they're evil and need to be responded to with violence. It could well mean that they just don't know and don't think they're doing anything wrong. If they're like that then reacting with violence is just plain wrong. Setting them straight sensibly and politely is a far better option that is much less likely to place you in an awkward conversation with some officers of the law. And the great thing about saying "please don't do that" is that you aren't preventing yourself the opportunity to subsequently escalate it if you need to. There's no need to immediately jump to the top of the list. You can work your way up. 99% of the time you won't have to. I've been playing for a long time and I've never come across anyone I've even had to think about threatening, let alone trying to hit them.

>

> For all of you thinking that that's the right way to react, what if the person who did it also thinks like you. Are you going to threaten them and then turn your back on them while they've got a bag of their own with 14 potentially lethal weapons in it? Doesn't strike me as that smart.

>

> As to the OP, I would think the best way to have reacted would have been to put your headcovers back on, say you're not a poser, but that you found them at the local goodwill shop and you thought they looked nice.

 

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

>

> In the vast majority of normal, everyday interactions a person's own self-interest is almost always best served by walking away rather than escalating, responding in kind or otherwise engaging with the offender. The urge to respond is borne out of a desire for retribution, punishment or defense of ones sense of honor. The idea that it will somehow deter the offender from future actions is mere rationalization.

>

> Put more simply, to respond aggressively to a minor provocations is to choose short-term gratification or satisfaction over actual self-interest.

 

Thank you gentlemen.

 

And to you other guyz,,,,,,,,, you seem to be missing my point.

 

My ONLY point is that "diplomacy", for lack of a better word, should be the FIRST attempt at a response, NOT a THREAT. A 2nd instance, if it comes at all, may come immediately after or the next time they see each other MAY be cause for a "warning". Hopefully that wouldn't be necessary.

 

2b's meme of Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse is, corny as it sounds, perfect. "Be nice,,,,,,,, until it's time to not be nice." Violence, or even threats of violence, should be a last resort, as blade preaches but doesn't seem to follow.

 

Bluefan, Leo and blade can't seem to grasp that so perhaps it's possible I just didn't state it clearly. I should note that I'd feel differently if there was some imminent threat to myself or a loved one's safety but that's not what we're talking about here.

 

blade's FIL confrontation is vague as I don't see any explanation of previous "objection" by blade. Did blade EVER try to defuse the situation or discuss the objectionable behavior by his FIL ? Or did he just "put up with it" for so long until he couldn't any longer ? I don't know. All he said was " My own father in law pushed me to this about 15 years ago. And once I blew up and said “ enough “ plus a few choice threats , he’s stayed off me ever since".

 

Leo - same thing. His boss "pushed and pushed" until he threatened him. I'm surprised Leo kept(?) his job. Did Leo ever talk to his boss about how he was treating him ? Don't know.

 

And BTW, threatening someone is ILLEGAL. In cardoustie's case (the one that triggered this particular part of the discussion), the "loudmouth who nobody likes", could have called the cops. Given card's description of the guy it sounds exactly like something he might've done.

 

And then what ? cardoustie could have been arrested given the same story he told us here. Would he have been arrested ? Probably not but,,,,,,,. Most likely outcome (IMO), the officers would have told the 2 of them "Stop acting like 8 year olds, leave each other alone and don't make us come back".

[bladehunter]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > @tatertot said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > > > @cardoustie said:

> > > > > > > > > > Love the stories on here

> > > > > > > > > > I was in a fight on a course when I was 17 or 18 and only because a kid charged me throwing windmill punches. 35 years ago and I still recall it

> > > > > > > > > > Anyways, the last time a guy really aggravated me was on the patio after a round. He's a loudmouth nobody likes, incessant talker, not funny but thinks he is, overly loud, etc etc. Anyways, he keeps calling me "Tiny" over and over again. I don't know this guy that well. Friend of friend sort of deal. Anyways, I just said quietly to him these exact words "Hey Don, one of these days you are going to call me Tiny and I will either be in a bad mood or will have had a few cocktails and it will not end well for you."

> > > > > > > > > > He's been a prince ever since

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Just curious. Obviously you're a pretty big guy.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Instead of the obvious threat, is there any reason you couldn't have just said " If you don't mind, I'd rather you didn't call me "Tiny"" ? At least as a 1st attempt ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nah. Guys like that don’t listen to polite reason. You have to meet a bully with the language he understands. **He’d have 99.9% likely tested him with an immediate repeat of the pet name.** At that point there nearly no choice. Why back yourself into that corner ? Just be plain and straight as he was. So that if it doesn’t stop he cannot act surprised that he’s suddenly having a bad afternoon. He will think “ oh shat. He wasn’t joking , this hurts “. I believe in politely but positively letting people know where the line is. Your suggestion does that. But. It doesn’t list the consequence for crossing the line. Some people just have to have it spelled out. Sad. But true.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > **That’s not to say that threats of violence are often the correct language either. Only as a last resort. ** But. You have to be blunt. People who see nothing wrong with name calling , or singling out the same folks constantly for their amusement , wont heed a polite request. I generally grin and take it. It’s one of those instances I’ve described as when someone mistakes silence for weakness or complicity. Then when the last straw is broken , that person plays the part of the shocked victim who has no idea that they were offending anyone. It’s just an odd conundrum , people that is. We’re all taught to try to get along. So we take certain amounts of everything. But when it’s goes too far the person who is the instigator is rarely The one who ends up being held accountable.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So you're a mind reader too ? LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Only as a last resort". That's what you just said. What about his story gave you ANY indication there was no other choice and it was as a last resort ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You seem to feel very strongly both ways.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes I am a people watcher by nature. And think very strongly in several directions all the time. Very few hard absolutes in this world. But many many 99.9% cases. Always be careful of the .1% guy. He’s a tricky one to pin down.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As for his story. Hard to say. I took it to mean that he’d reached his point of fill. At that point it can be said that choices have ran out. And action is the next step. Of course action is a choice. As is continued inaction . But when you desire the result to change you are pretty much left with the one option. To continue the same and expect a different out come is after all , the definition of nuts.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's a lot of words to basically say nothing. So by your non-answer I can only assume there was NOTHING in the story that gave any indication this was a last resort (your terminology & presumed "trigger").

> > > > >

> > > > > Attack first (just in case), apologize (if necessary) later.

> > > > >

> > > > > ~~Gotcha !!!~~ Understood !!! (<---edited since the "Gotcha" seems to have been misinterpreted (<----- see how EASY that sort of thing is ? LOL))

> > > >

> > > > Man, you've convinced me. You really are smarter and more advanced than the rest of us blockheads. Thanks for gracing us with your superiorness.

> > >

> > > You get the sense that he never not got in trouble at school because he never talked back to the bully.

> > >

> > > Of course, he never had any lunch money either....

> >

> > Funny but one might get the sense that you actually were the bully,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

> >

> > Despite what some people (apparently) think it's really not all that hard to get along with most people.

>

> Here's the problem: you assume people are like you and I. But people like you and I don't go and grab someone else's clubs without asking. We don't go calling people by a name like card's story. And we sure as F*&K don't go sit on someone else's vehicle while we are tailgating. We can listen to reason because our starting point is one of reasonableness. People who think it's ok to do the stuff I just mentioned, aren't there. Polite words don't convey the situation. You need to get their attention.

>

> Nope, I wasn't the bully. I was a big kid, but this small kid in class ahead of me used to come up to me in the school yard, hook his right leg around mine, and knock me down. I laughed it off because I was bigger than him, and knew anytime I wanted to I could reverse course. But confrontation wasn't in my nature back then(still really isn't, but I'm more likely to stand my ground now than back then), so I just let it happen. But one day I got tired of him doing it, so I just planted, grabbed his shoulders an did it to him. He never came back to me again. Maybe you think, in all your enlightenment, that "please don't do that" would have stopped him, but then again, an enlightened person doesn't think and follow through on tripping someone out of the blue in the first place.

>

> I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

 

100% a post rooted in reality !! Excellent !^^

[bladehunter]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > Maybe you think, in all your enlightenment, that "please don't do that" would have stopped him, but then again, an enlightened person doesn't think and follow through on tripping someone out of the blue in the first place.

> >

> > Isn't the point more that saying "please don't do that" might have stopped him? Sure there are plenty of jerks out there who it won't stop, but there are also plenty of people who are trying to be nice, but are clueless. I have no doubt that there are people out there who think it's okay to take a look at someone else's clubs. It doesn't mean that they're evil and need to be responded to with violence. It could well mean that they just don't know and don't think they're doing anything wrong. If they're like that then reacting with violence is just plain wrong. Setting them straight sensibly and politely is a far better option that is much less likely to place you in an awkward conversation with some officers of the law. And the great thing about saying "please don't do that" is that you aren't preventing yourself the opportunity to subsequently escalate it if you need to. There's no need to immediately jump to the top of the list. You can work your way up. 99% of the time you won't have to. I've been playing for a long time and I've never come across anyone I've even had to think about threatening, let alone trying to hit them.

> >

> > For all of you thinking that that's the right way to react, what if the person who did it also thinks like you. Are you going to threaten them and then turn your back on them while they've got a bag of their own with 14 potentially lethal weapons in it? Doesn't strike me as that smart.

> >

> > As to the OP, I would think the best way to have reacted would have been to put your headcovers back on, say you're not a poser, but that you found them at the local goodwill shop and you thought they looked nice.

>

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

> >

> > In the vast majority of normal, everyday interactions a person's own self-interest is almost always best served by walking away rather than escalating, responding in kind or otherwise engaging with the offender. The urge to respond is borne out of a desire for retribution, punishment or defense of ones sense of honor. The idea that it will somehow deter the offender from future actions is mere rationalization.

> >

> > Put more simply, to respond aggressively to a minor provocations is to choose short-term gratification or satisfaction over actual self-interest.

>

> Thank you gentlemen.

>

> And to you other guyz,,,,,,,,, you seem to be missing my point.

>

> My ONLY point is that "diplomacy", for lack of a better word, should be the FIRST attempt at a response, NOT a THREAT. A 2nd instance, if it comes at all, may come immediately after or the next time they see each other MAY be cause for a "warning". Hopefully that wouldn't be necessary.

>

> 2b's meme of Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse is, corny as it sounds, perfect. "Be nice,,,,,,,, until it's time to not be nice." Violence, or even threats of violence, should be a last resort, as blade preaches but doesn't seem to follow.

>

> Bluefan, Leo and blade can't seem to grasp that so perhaps it's possible I just didn't state it clearly. I should note that I'd feel differently if there was some imminent threat to myself or a loved one's safety but that's not what we're talking about here.

>

> blade's FIL confrontation is vague as I don't see any explanation of previous "objection" by blade. Did blade EVER try to defuse the situation or discuss the objectionable behavior by his FIL ? Or did he just "put up with it" for so long until he couldn't any longer ? I don't know. All he said was " My own father in law pushed me to this about 15 years ago. And once I blew up and said “ enough “ plus a few choice threats , he’s stayed off me ever since".

>

> Leo - same thing. His boss "pushed and pushed" until he threatened him. I'm surprised Leo kept(?) his job. Did Leo ever talk to his boss about how he was treating him ? Don't know.

>

> And BTW, threatening someone is ILLEGAL. In cardoustie's case (the one that triggered this particular part of the discussion), the "loudmouth who nobody likes", could have called the cops. Given card's description of the guy it sounds exactly like something he might've done.

>

> And then what ? cardoustie could have been arrested given the same story he told us here. Would he have been arrested ? Probably not but,,,,,,,. Most likely outcome (IMO), the officers would have told the 2 of them "Stop acting like 8 year olds, leave each other alone and don't make us come back".

 

 

Lol. A threat such as that said in a quiet voice may be illegal by the letter of the Law . But I promise you on my life , a guy like me with no record would not even get a stern talking to in South Carolina for it. More like a lecture on why not to waste police time with no blood shed. Acting as if that is even something that can be proven is pretty hilarious. There was no loud altercation , nor any witness who could hear the exchange.

 

 

As for your question on my FIL altercation. No I had never once bit back at him. Just took it. You cannot reason with an imbecile. The man is known far and wide as the least pleasant person you will talk to. I can go 6 months and be best pals with the guy. And one day he would just snap and do crazy things like bring up $40 you “owed” him from dinner a month ago which he invited you out to and insisted on paying for. Crazy things like that. This is a man who owns 3 homes. He isn’t poor. He’s what I call a “ score keeper “. Don’t ever accept a gift or any help from the guy. And if you help him ( as I have often done ) it will kill him until he can “ pay you back “. So I make a game out of making sure he always owes me. Lol. Always giving him stuff. It’s drives him nuts.

 

The particular time that I was speaking of was a day where we were burning a huge brush pile in my field. His yard waste included as he has no space to burn. So he had chosen this time of standing around watching the fire to “ jump on me “ about of all things , a wheel barrow that Was mine , that I had used to mix mortar mix in to lay block on the foundation of the new addition to my shop. Anyone who’s mixed Concrete before knows that you can never clean every single scrap of that stuff off. And this was no different. It was clean. But not perfect . And again. It was mine.

 

So he begins berating me about this and tells me “ you need to take Better care of things. And do more “. For context I was a mid 20s guy who had no form of family help or support and a 5 year old business which I started on my own with pennies and was expanding successfully. A happy wife and bills being paid. All by myself. I literally had enough. So I cut into him. Cuss words flying. And he says this ( swear to god this is true ). He says “ you sure do run your mouth a lot talking to a guy with a pitch fork “. He was leaning on his pitch fork. I stopped and calmly said “ look around Doug .... do you see anybody Who can help you ? We’re in the middle of 40 acres , your gun is in the truck , and you’ll never make it there alive , I’ll shove that pitch fork up your a** “. He turned white as a sheet. ( in 6ft3 205 and I’m not fat and an adrenal gland pumping through a 1/2 inch line. He was in danger ). I waited for a response for a few seconds and then turned and walked away. I waited 30 minutes and came back to the scene. And I calmly said “ Doug. You’re through talking to me that way. You can treat me correctly and we will forget this day happened. Or you can not and we’re done. It’s up to you “. And I held my hand out to shake. He said nothing but shook my hand. He’s never tried that again. Period. And I talk to him almost daily. A bully must be met with either a verbal or literal fist to the nose.

 

I’m sorry that my experience on this planet with humans hasn’t been as good as yours. But I have so many occasions that are opposite of what you describe it’s nuts. I didn’t want to describe that story in detail. As it made me mad again now. And I know it seems off the planet. I just attract that type thing for some reason. Must be my size and quiet demeanor. Only thing I can come up with and I’ve racked my brain for years.

[JeffreySpicoli]

Interesting that all the stories here concern violent threats that never turned into actual violence.

 

It’s a dangerous brew to encourage the use of violent threats as a means to control one’s surroundings. In the real world, the endings won’t all be as happy, righteous, and nonviolent as those portrayed here.

[Lord Helmet]

> @Outpost31 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > Am I the only one who thinks this thread didn't go exactly like the OP thought it would ? LMAO

> >

> > 

> >

>

> What's this gif from? The dude that jumps out of the window really looks like he took an unplanned spill! LOL

 

1st installment of the Bourne movies.

[chippa13]

Playing beer league hockey, most trouble hunters are calmed by a wry grin and chuckle with a "settle down all star" tossed in.

[bladehunter]

> @matthewb said:

> Interesting that all the stories here concern violent threats that never turned into actual violence.

>

> It’s a dangerous brew to encourage the use of violent threats as a means to control one’s surroundings. In the real world, the endings won’t all be as happy, righteous, and nonviolent as those portrayed here.

 

Lol. It’s all in the eyes boss. When they see that blank stare they know who’s bluffing and who isn’t.

 

It’s only the guys with true little man syndrome that push to that level anyway. Most people take the hint very early and easy and stop whatever the bullying or harassing behavior is.

 

Nsx is mistaking our accounts as instances like that. Instances that can be talked through. He thinks we are saying that you just walk up to the guy who stole your Parking space and pound your fist at him. Not at all. The scenarios explained here are built over time and caused by people who are very much aware of what they are doing.

[JeffreySpicoli]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @matthewb said:

> > Interesting that all the stories here concern violent threats that never turned into actual violence.

> >

> > It’s a dangerous brew to encourage the use of violent threats as a means to control one’s surroundings. In the real world, the endings won’t all be as happy, righteous, and nonviolent as those portrayed here.

>

> Lol. It’s all in the eyes boss. When they see that blank stare they know who’s bluffing and who isn’t.

>

> It’s only the guys with true little man syndrome that push to that level anyway. Most people take the hint very early and easy and stop whatever the bullying or harassing behavior is.

>

> Nsx is mistaking our accounts as instances like that. Instances that can be talked through. He thinks we are saying that you just walk up to the guy who stole your Parking space and pound your fist at him. Not at all. The scenarios explained here are built over time and caused by people who are very much aware of what they are doing.

 

I understand what you are saying but what seems to work for you and doesn’t end in violence simply doesn’t always work out that way in the rest of the world.

 

The general advice to, “Stand your ground and make a threat of physical violence,” isn’t going to end well for everyone in all circumstances. There are nuances that I’m not seeing in this conversation.

 

[chippa13]

99% of this thread is bluster. If I had a nickel for each hypothetical that would actually happen then I might have a nickel. Diffuse is always the best course of action.

[nsxguy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > Maybe you think, in all your enlightenment, that "please don't do that" would have stopped him, but then again, an enlightened person doesn't think and follow through on tripping someone out of the blue in the first place.

> > >

> > > Isn't the point more that saying "please don't do that" might have stopped him? Sure there are plenty of jerks out there who it won't stop, but there are also plenty of people who are trying to be nice, but are clueless. I have no doubt that there are people out there who think it's okay to take a look at someone else's clubs. It doesn't mean that they're evil and need to be responded to with violence. It could well mean that they just don't know and don't think they're doing anything wrong. If they're like that then reacting with violence is just plain wrong. Setting them straight sensibly and politely is a far better option that is much less likely to place you in an awkward conversation with some officers of the law. And the great thing about saying "please don't do that" is that you aren't preventing yourself the opportunity to subsequently escalate it if you need to. There's no need to immediately jump to the top of the list. You can work your way up. 99% of the time you won't have to. I've been playing for a long time and I've never come across anyone I've even had to think about threatening, let alone trying to hit them.

> > >

> > > For all of you thinking that that's the right way to react, what if the person who did it also thinks like you. Are you going to threaten them and then turn your back on them while they've got a bag of their own with 14 potentially lethal weapons in it? Doesn't strike me as that smart.

> > >

> > > As to the OP, I would think the best way to have reacted would have been to put your headcovers back on, say you're not a poser, but that you found them at the local goodwill shop and you thought they looked nice.

> >

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

> > >

> > > In the vast majority of normal, everyday interactions a person's own self-interest is almost always best served by walking away rather than escalating, responding in kind or otherwise engaging with the offender. The urge to respond is borne out of a desire for retribution, punishment or defense of ones sense of honor. The idea that it will somehow deter the offender from future actions is mere rationalization.

> > >

> > > Put more simply, to respond aggressively to a minor provocations is to choose short-term gratification or satisfaction over actual self-interest.

> >

> > Thank you gentlemen.

> >

> > And to you other guyz,,,,,,,,, you seem to be missing my point.

> >

> > My ONLY point is that "diplomacy", for lack of a better word, should be the FIRST attempt at a response, NOT a THREAT. A 2nd instance, if it comes at all, may come immediately after or the next time they see each other MAY be cause for a "warning". Hopefully that wouldn't be necessary.

> >

> > 2b's meme of Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse is, corny as it sounds, perfect. "Be nice,,,,,,,, until it's time to not be nice." Violence, or even threats of violence, should be a last resort, as blade preaches but doesn't seem to follow.

> >

> > Bluefan, Leo and blade can't seem to grasp that so perhaps it's possible I just didn't state it clearly. I should note that I'd feel differently if there was some imminent threat to myself or a loved one's safety but that's not what we're talking about here.

> >

> > blade's FIL confrontation is vague as I don't see any explanation of previous "objection" by blade. Did blade EVER try to defuse the situation or discuss the objectionable behavior by his FIL ? Or did he just "put up with it" for so long until he couldn't any longer ? I don't know. All he said was " My own father in law pushed me to this about 15 years ago. And once I blew up and said “ enough “ plus a few choice threats , he’s stayed off me ever since".

> >

> > Leo - same thing. His boss "pushed and pushed" until he threatened him. I'm surprised Leo kept(?) his job. Did Leo ever talk to his boss about how he was treating him ? Don't know.

> >

> > And BTW, threatening someone is ILLEGAL. In cardoustie's case (the one that triggered this particular part of the discussion), the "loudmouth who nobody likes", could have called the cops. Given card's description of the guy it sounds exactly like something he might've done.

> >

> > And then what ? cardoustie could have been arrested given the same story he told us here. Would he have been arrested ? Probably not but,,,,,,,. Most likely outcome (IMO), the officers would have told the 2 of them "Stop acting like 8 year olds, leave each other alone and don't make us come back".

>

>

> Lol. A threat such as that said in a quiet voice may be illegal by the letter of the Law . But I promise you on my life , a guy like me with no record would not even get a stern talking to in South Carolina for it. More like a lecture on why not to waste police time with no blood shed. Acting as if that is even something that can be proven is pretty hilarious. There was no loud altercation , nor any witness who could hear the exchange.

>

>

> As for your question on my FIL altercation. No I had never once bit back at him. Just took it. You cannot reason with an imbecile. The man is known far and wide as the least pleasant person you will talk to. I can go 6 months and be best pals with the guy. And one day he would just snap and do crazy things like bring up $40 you “owed” him from dinner a month ago which he invited you out to and insisted on paying for. Crazy things like that. This is a man who owns 3 homes. He isn’t poor. He’s what I call a “ score keeper “. Don’t ever accept a gift or any help from the guy. And if you help him ( as I have often done ) it will kill him until he can “ pay you back “. So I make a game out of making sure he always owes me. Lol. Always giving him stuff. It’s drives him nuts.

>

> The particular time that I was speaking of was a day where we were burning a huge brush pile in my field. His yard waste included as he has no space to burn. So he had chosen this time of standing around watching the fire to “ jump on me “ about of all things , a wheel barrow that Was mine , that I had used to mix mortar mix in to lay block on the foundation of the new addition to my shop. Anyone who’s mixed Concrete before knows that you can never clean every single scrap of that stuff off. And this was no different. It was clean. But not perfect . And again. It was mine.

>

> So he begins berating me about this and tells me “ you need to take Better care of things. And do more “. For context I was a mid 20s guy who had no form of family help or support and a 5 year old business which I started on my own with pennies and was expanding successfully. A happy wife and bills being paid. All by myself. I literally had enough. So I cut into him. Cuss words flying. And he says this ( swear to god this is true ). He says “ you sure do run your mouth a lot talking to a guy with a pitch fork “. He was leaning on his pitch fork. I stopped and calmly said “ look around Doug .... do you see anybody Who can help you ? We’re in the middle of 40 acres , your gun is in the truck , and you’ll never make it there alive , I’ll shove that pitch fork up your **** “. He turned white as a sheet. ( in 6ft3 205 and I’m not fat and an adrenal gland pumping through a 1/2 inch line. He was in danger ). I waited for a response for a few seconds and then turned and walked away. I waited 30 minutes and came back to the scene. And I calmly said “ Doug. You’re through talking to me that way. You can treat me correctly and we will forget this day happened. Or you can not and we’re done. It’s up to you “. And I held my hand out to shake. He said nothing but shook my hand. He’s never tried that again. Period. And I talk to him almost daily. A bully must be met with either a verbal or literal fist to the nose.

>

> I’m sorry that my experience on this planet with humans hasn’t been as good as yours. But I have so many occasions that are opposite of what you describe it’s nuts. I didn’t want to describe that story in detail. As it made me mad again now. And I know it seems off the planet. I just attract that type thing for some reason. Must be my size and quiet demeanor. Only thing I can come up with and I’ve racked my brain for years.

 

Well, I can't say you didn't warn me about you're having A.D.D. LMAO

[golfboy123]

Fake News!!

[Ri_Redneck]

LMFAO! I think I'm gonna switch to Titleist headcovers for my Cobra woods! Guy's a total basket case. I like the tee box response and would actually give that just cause some stranger is dicking with my clubs without asking. But, next time someone want's to bet, have a 3rd party hold the money!! Reduces the disappointment factor.

 

BT

[BIG STU]

I gotta side with the OP on this one--- first off what gives someone the right to pull the head cover off of someone else's hybrid? And then because of that call someone a poser----- As far as I am concerned someone can put any kind of cover on any kind of club they want to. Me I have mismatched covers for the 3 head covers I carry. OP rock on!!!

[BIG STU]

> @caniac6 said:

> > @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > If anyone started taking the headcovers off my clubs without asking first they'd be unconscious before they would see what clubs I own.

>

> I've had guys look at my clubs, and I've checked out other guys clubs. I've only been playing about 50 years, and didn't realize it was such an issue, or that there were that many tough guys on the course.

 

I have no problem if say someone asks me if that is a so and so club. I have also done the same ----- If the person is a decent stick I may ask if they want to hit it. Never had anyone in my 50 years of golf do what that guy done---- That is why I said in my previous post I had to side with the OP

[BIG STU]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > Maybe you think, in all your enlightenment, that "please don't do that" would have stopped him, but then again, an enlightened person doesn't think and follow through on tripping someone out of the blue in the first place.

> > >

> > > Isn't the point more that saying "please don't do that" might have stopped him? Sure there are plenty of jerks out there who it won't stop, but there are also plenty of people who are trying to be nice, but are clueless. I have no doubt that there are people out there who think it's okay to take a look at someone else's clubs. It doesn't mean that they're evil and need to be responded to with violence. It could well mean that they just don't know and don't think they're doing anything wrong. If they're like that then reacting with violence is just plain wrong. Setting them straight sensibly and politely is a far better option that is much less likely to place you in an awkward conversation with some officers of the law. And the great thing about saying "please don't do that" is that you aren't preventing yourself the opportunity to subsequently escalate it if you need to. There's no need to immediately jump to the top of the list. You can work your way up. 99% of the time you won't have to. I've been playing for a long time and I've never come across anyone I've even had to think about threatening, let alone trying to hit them.

> > >

> > > For all of you thinking that that's the right way to react, what if the person who did it also thinks like you. Are you going to threaten them and then turn your back on them while they've got a bag of their own with 14 potentially lethal weapons in it? Doesn't strike me as that smart.

> > >

> > > As to the OP, I would think the best way to have reacted would have been to put your headcovers back on, say you're not a poser, but that you found them at the local goodwill shop and you thought they looked nice.

> >

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

> > >

> > > In the vast majority of normal, everyday interactions a person's own self-interest is almost always best served by walking away rather than escalating, responding in kind or otherwise engaging with the offender. The urge to respond is borne out of a desire for retribution, punishment or defense of ones sense of honor. The idea that it will somehow deter the offender from future actions is mere rationalization.

> > >

> > > Put more simply, to respond aggressively to a minor provocations is to choose short-term gratification or satisfaction over actual self-interest.

> >

> > Thank you gentlemen.

> >

> > And to you other guyz,,,,,,,,, you seem to be missing my point.

> >

> > My ONLY point is that "diplomacy", for lack of a better word, should be the FIRST attempt at a response, NOT a THREAT. A 2nd instance, if it comes at all, may come immediately after or the next time they see each other MAY be cause for a "warning". Hopefully that wouldn't be necessary.

> >

> > 2b's meme of Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse is, corny as it sounds, perfect. "Be nice,,,,,,,, until it's time to not be nice." Violence, or even threats of violence, should be a last resort, as blade preaches but doesn't seem to follow.

> >

> > Bluefan, Leo and blade can't seem to grasp that so perhaps it's possible I just didn't state it clearly. I should note that I'd feel differently if there was some imminent threat to myself or a loved one's safety but that's not what we're talking about here.

> >

> > blade's FIL confrontation is vague as I don't see any explanation of previous "objection" by blade. Did blade EVER try to defuse the situation or discuss the objectionable behavior by his FIL ? Or did he just "put up with it" for so long until he couldn't any longer ? I don't know. All he said was " My own father in law pushed me to this about 15 years ago. And once I blew up and said “ enough “ plus a few choice threats , he’s stayed off me ever since".

> >

> > Leo - same thing. His boss "pushed and pushed" until he threatened him. I'm surprised Leo kept(?) his job. Did Leo ever talk to his boss about how he was treating him ? Don't know.

> >

> > And BTW, threatening someone is ILLEGAL. In cardoustie's case (the one that triggered this particular part of the discussion), the "loudmouth who nobody likes", could have called the cops. Given card's description of the guy it sounds exactly like something he might've done.

> >

> > And then what ? cardoustie could have been arrested given the same story he told us here. Would he have been arrested ? Probably not but,,,,,,,. Most likely outcome (IMO), the officers would have told the 2 of them "Stop acting like 8 year olds, leave each other alone and don't make us come back".

>

>

> Lol. A threat such as that said in a quiet voice may be illegal by the letter of the Law . But I promise you on my life , a guy like me with no record would not even get a stern talking to in South Carolina for it. More like a lecture on why not to waste police time with no blood shed. Acting as if that is even something that can be proven is pretty hilarious. There was no loud altercation , nor any witness who could hear the exchange.

>

>

> As for your question on my FIL altercation. No I had never once bit back at him. Just took it. You cannot reason with an imbecile. The man is known far and wide as the least pleasant person you will talk to. I can go 6 months and be best pals with the guy. And one day he would just snap and do crazy things like bring up $40 you “owed” him from dinner a month ago which he invited you out to and insisted on paying for. Crazy things like that. This is a man who owns 3 homes. He isn’t poor. He’s what I call a “ score keeper “. Don’t ever accept a gift or any help from the guy. And if you help him ( as I have often done ) it will kill him until he can “ pay you back “. So I make a game out of making sure he always owes me. Lol. Always giving him stuff. It’s drives him nuts.

>

> The particular time that I was speaking of was a day where we were burning a huge brush pile in my field. His yard waste included as he has no space to burn. So he had chosen this time of standing around watching the fire to “ jump on me “ about of all things , a wheel barrow that Was mine , that I had used to mix mortar mix in to lay block on the foundation of the new addition to my shop. Anyone who’s mixed Concrete before knows that you can never clean every single scrap of that stuff off. And this was no different. It was clean. But not perfect . And again. It was mine.

>

> So he begins berating me about this and tells me “ you need to take Better care of things. And do more “. For context I was a mid 20s guy who had no form of family help or support and a 5 year old business which I started on my own with pennies and was expanding successfully. A happy wife and bills being paid. All by myself. I literally had enough. So I cut into him. Cuss words flying. And he says this ( swear to god this is true ). He says “ you sure do run your mouth a lot talking to a guy with a pitch fork “. He was leaning on his pitch fork. I stopped and calmly said “ look around Doug .... do you see anybody Who can help you ? We’re in the middle of 40 acres , your gun is in the truck , and you’ll never make it there alive , I’ll shove that pitch fork up your **** “. He turned white as a sheet. ( in 6ft3 205 and I’m not fat and an adrenal gland pumping through a 1/2 inch line. He was in danger ). I waited for a response for a few seconds and then turned and walked away. I waited 30 minutes and came back to the scene. And I calmly said “ Doug. You’re through talking to me that way. You can treat me correctly and we will forget this day happened. Or you can not and we’re done. It’s up to you “. And I held my hand out to shake. He said nothing but shook my hand. He’s never tried that again. Period. And I talk to him almost daily. A bully must be met with either a verbal or literal fist to the nose.

>

> I’m sorry that my experience on this planet with humans hasn’t been as good as yours. But I have so many occasions that are opposite of what you describe it’s nuts. I didn’t want to describe that story in detail. As it made me mad again now. And I know it seems off the planet. I just attract that type thing for some reason. Must be my size and quiet demeanor. Only thing I can come up with and I’ve racked my brain for years.

 

Something my old man taught me years ago---- Try to get along with people but do not let anyone run over you----- Remember the line in John Wayne's last movie about he would not mistreat others and would not be mistreated by others?---- That is the way I have lived my whole life

[cardoustie]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Ty_Webb said:

> > > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > Maybe you think, in all your enlightenment, that "please don't do that" would have stopped him, but then again, an enlightened person doesn't think and follow through on tripping someone out of the blue in the first place.

> > > >

> > > > Isn't the point more that saying "please don't do that" might have stopped him? Sure there are plenty of jerks out there who it won't stop, but there are also plenty of people who are trying to be nice, but are clueless. I have no doubt that there are people out there who think it's okay to take a look at someone else's clubs. It doesn't mean that they're evil and need to be responded to with violence. It could well mean that they just don't know and don't think they're doing anything wrong. If they're like that then reacting with violence is just plain wrong. Setting them straight sensibly and politely is a far better option that is much less likely to place you in an awkward conversation with some officers of the law. And the great thing about saying "please don't do that" is that you aren't preventing yourself the opportunity to subsequently escalate it if you need to. There's no need to immediately jump to the top of the list. You can work your way up. 99% of the time you won't have to. I've been playing for a long time and I've never come across anyone I've even had to think about threatening, let alone trying to hit them.

> > > >

> > > > For all of you thinking that that's the right way to react, what if the person who did it also thinks like you. Are you going to threaten them and then turn your back on them while they've got a bag of their own with 14 potentially lethal weapons in it? Doesn't strike me as that smart.

> > > >

> > > > As to the OP, I would think the best way to have reacted would have been to put your headcovers back on, say you're not a poser, but that you found them at the local goodwill shop and you thought they looked nice.

> > >

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > > I know we like to think we are so much better than before, but human nature is such that a)people will always act in their own self-interest, and b)the best way to keep someone from doing something bad is making sure the other person knows that there could very well be consequences to their actions.

> > > >

> > > > In the vast majority of normal, everyday interactions a person's own self-interest is almost always best served by walking away rather than escalating, responding in kind or otherwise engaging with the offender. The urge to respond is borne out of a desire for retribution, punishment or defense of ones sense of honor. The idea that it will somehow deter the offender from future actions is mere rationalization.

> > > >

> > > > Put more simply, to respond aggressively to a minor provocations is to choose short-term gratification or satisfaction over actual self-interest.

> > >

> > > Thank you gentlemen.

> > >

> > > And to you other guyz,,,,,,,,, you seem to be missing my point.

> > >

> > > My ONLY point is that "diplomacy", for lack of a better word, should be the FIRST attempt at a response, NOT a THREAT. A 2nd instance, if it comes at all, may come immediately after or the next time they see each other MAY be cause for a "warning". Hopefully that wouldn't be necessary.

> > >

> > > 2b's meme of Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse is, corny as it sounds, perfect. "Be nice,,,,,,,, until it's time to not be nice." Violence, or even threats of violence, should be a last resort, as blade preaches but doesn't seem to follow.

> > >

> > > Bluefan, Leo and blade can't seem to grasp that so perhaps it's possible I just didn't state it clearly. I should note that I'd feel differently if there was some imminent threat to myself or a loved one's safety but that's not what we're talking about here.

> > >

> > > blade's FIL confrontation is vague as I don't see any explanation of previous "objection" by blade. Did blade EVER try to defuse the situation or discuss the objectionable behavior by his FIL ? Or did he just "put up with it" for so long until he couldn't any longer ? I don't know. All he said was " My own father in law pushed me to this about 15 years ago. And once I blew up and said “ enough “ plus a few choice threats , he’s stayed off me ever since".

> > >

> > > Leo - same thing. His boss "pushed and pushed" until he threatened him. I'm surprised Leo kept(?) his job. Did Leo ever talk to his boss about how he was treating him ? Don't know.

> > >

> > > And BTW, threatening someone is ILLEGAL. In cardoustie's case (the one that triggered this particular part of the discussion), the "loudmouth who nobody likes", could have called the cops. Given card's description of the guy it sounds exactly like something he might've done.

> > >

> > > And then what ? cardoustie could have been arrested given the same story he told us here. Would he have been arrested ? Probably not but,,,,,,,. Most likely outcome (IMO), the officers would have told the 2 of them "Stop acting like 8 year olds, leave each other alone and don't make us come back".

> >

> >

> > Lol. A threat such as that said in a quiet voice may be illegal by the letter of the Law . But I promise you on my life , a guy like me with no record would not even get a stern talking to in South Carolina for it. More like a lecture on why not to waste police time with no blood shed. Acting as if that is even something that can be proven is pretty hilarious. There was no loud altercation , nor any witness who could hear the exchange.

> >

> >

> > As for your question on my FIL altercation. No I had never once bit back at him. Just took it. You cannot reason with an imbecile. The man is known far and wide as the least pleasant person you will talk to. I can go 6 months and be best pals with the guy. And one day he would just snap and do crazy things like bring up $40 you “owed” him from dinner a month ago which he invited you out to and insisted on paying for. Crazy things like that. This is a man who owns 3 homes. He isn’t poor. He’s what I call a “ score keeper “. Don’t ever accept a gift or any help from the guy. And if you help him ( as I have often done ) it will kill him until he can “ pay you back “. So I make a game out of making sure he always owes me. Lol. Always giving him stuff. It’s drives him nuts.

> >

> > The particular time that I was speaking of was a day where we were burning a huge brush pile in my field. His yard waste included as he has no space to burn. So he had chosen this time of standing around watching the fire to “ jump on me “ about of all things , a wheel barrow that Was mine , that I had used to mix mortar mix in to lay block on the foundation of the new addition to my shop. Anyone who’s mixed Concrete before knows that you can never clean every single scrap of that stuff off. And this was no different. It was clean. But not perfect . And again. It was mine.

> >

> > So he begins berating me about this and tells me “ you need to take Better care of things. And do more “. For context I was a mid 20s guy who had no form of family help or support and a 5 year old business which I started on my own with pennies and was expanding successfully. A happy wife and bills being paid. All by myself. I literally had enough. So I cut into him. Cuss words flying. And he says this ( swear to god this is true ). He says “ you sure do run your mouth a lot talking to a guy with a pitch fork “. He was leaning on his pitch fork. I stopped and calmly said “ look around Doug .... do you see anybody Who can help you ? We’re in the middle of 40 acres , your gun is in the truck , and you’ll never make it there alive , I’ll shove that pitch fork up your **** “. He turned white as a sheet. ( in 6ft3 205 and I’m not fat and an adrenal gland pumping through a 1/2 inch line. He was in danger ). I waited for a response for a few seconds and then turned and walked away. I waited 30 minutes and came back to the scene. And I calmly said “ Doug. You’re through talking to me that way. You can treat me correctly and we will forget this day happened. Or you can not and we’re done. It’s up to you “. And I held my hand out to shake. He said nothing but shook my hand. He’s never tried that again. Period. And I talk to him almost daily. A bully must be met with either a verbal or literal fist to the nose.

> >

> > I’m sorry that my experience on this planet with humans hasn’t been as good as yours. But I have so many occasions that are opposite of what you describe it’s nuts. I didn’t want to describe that story in detail. As it made me mad again now. And I know it seems off the planet. I just attract that type thing for some reason. Must be my size and quiet demeanor. Only thing I can come up with and I’ve racked my brain for years.

>

> Something my old man taught me years ago---- Try to get along with people but do not let anyone run over you----- Remember the line in John Wayne's last movie about he would not mistreat others and would not be mistreated by others?---- That is the way I have lived my whole life

 

Stu

That's how I live my life. I treat everyone nicely and with respect. My 19 and 21 year old daughters still comment on it and I tell them "why not, treat people like you want to be treated." It makes life easier

But to Big Stu's dad's point, I will not be "run over" by anyone either

I haven't dropped the gloves since I was 24 so I got that going for me

[BIG STU]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @matthewb said:

> > Interesting that all the stories here concern violent threats that never turned into actual violence.

> >

> > It’s a dangerous brew to encourage the use of violent threats as a means to control one’s surroundings. In the real world, the endings won’t all be as happy, righteous, and nonviolent as those portrayed here.

>

> Lol. It’s all in the eyes boss. When they see that blank stare they know who’s bluffing and who isn’t.

>

> It’s only the guys with true little man syndrome that push to that level anyway. Most people take the hint very early and easy and stop whatever the bullying or harassing behavior is.

>

> Nsx is mistaking our accounts as instances like that. Instances that can be talked through. He thinks we are saying that you just walk up to the guy who stole your Parking space and pound your fist at him. Not at all. The scenarios explained here are built over time and caused by people who are very much aware of what they are doing.

 

That is called the dead eye stare----- I am blessed with that quality plus sorta a growl---- Good example---- A few years back a young lady was selling items for a Cancer Organization. I bought a pair of pink shoelaces from them. Told the young lady I would rock them in my white Foot Joys. She asked "really?" My wife told her you do not know him. I put the laces in. Some cat at the course wanted to give me some flack. I gave him the dead eye stare and growled at him "They are for Cancer Awareness I lost my son to cancer so STFU" I never got any flack since. Some things I get really defensive about. My wife got on to me about it said maybe he did not know. I thought about it and she was right. I saw him a few days later and apologized. He actually wanted to apologize first. He did not know about my son. We are good friends to this day

[Brandons68]

1.) I probably woulda told the guy to take a hike as soon as he started going through my bag.

2.) Headcovers are just an accessory. Nobody cares what's on what club honestly. I have a headcover on a club from a course I've never played. Nobody cares.

[padget]

> @"BIG STU" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @matthewb said:

> > > Interesting that all the stories here concern violent threats that never turned into actual violence.

> > >

> > > It’s a dangerous brew to encourage the use of violent threats as a means to control one’s surroundings. In the real world, the endings won’t all be as happy, righteous, and nonviolent as those portrayed here.

> >

> > Lol. It’s all in the eyes boss. When they see that blank stare they know who’s bluffing and who isn’t.

> >

> > It’s only the guys with true little man syndrome that push to that level anyway. Most people take the hint very early and easy and stop whatever the bullying or harassing behavior is.

> >

> > Nsx is mistaking our accounts as instances like that. Instances that can be talked through. He thinks we are saying that you just walk up to the guy who stole your Parking space and pound your fist at him. Not at all. The scenarios explained here are built over time and caused by people who are very much aware of what they are doing.

>

> That is called the dead eye stare----- I am blessed with that quality plus sorta a growl---- Good example---- A few years back a young lady was selling items for a Cancer Organization. I bought a pair of pink shoelaces from them. Told the young lady I would rock them in my white Foot Joys. She asked "really?" My wife told her you do not know him. I put the laces in. Some cat at the course wanted to give me some flack. I gave him the dead eye stare and growled at him "They are for Cancer Awareness I lost my son to cancer so STFU" I never got any flack since. Some things I get really defensive about. My wife got on to me about it said maybe he did not know. I thought about it and she was right. I saw him a few days later and apologized. He actually wanted to apologize first. He did not know about my son. We are good friends to this day

 

Prayers sent Stu. So sorry for your loss.

 

I agree with blade and Stu. Some people will quit when asked, but there are plenty of people that are knowingly crossing a line or just don’t have the conscience to care, and you can either take it forever or set em straight right then and there. Which the consequence may be ending a relationship, agreeing to just not talk to each other, fisticuffs, or moving forward with a clear understanding for each party.