Who here prefers the pro game 20-30 years ago compared to today?

[Irishman1979]

After being away from the game for a good 17 years roughly, and then coming back and seeing all the new equipment, changes in rules, current players, and courses that they now play on tour, I have to say that I really wish I had a time machine where I could go back 20 years. The game has evolved in a way that I am just not too fond of.

For example courses. They keep having to lengthen them to extreme distances that force players to carry the ball about 285-290 off the tee on some of these set ups. Why in the world would they allow the game to end up like this? Why do we need to be playing par 5's that are 650 yards long?

What's the next thing? Are we gonna see par 3's playing over 300 yards one day , or courses measuring over 8,000 yards where 7,000 is unheard of anymore?

20-30 years ago if you were a good player, you didn't even have to hit the ball 300 plus yards to play from the tips on any golf course. You could play the same set of tee's the tour played when they came to town as long as you were hitting the ball about 260-265 on average. Forced carries consisted of maybe 150-180 yards at the most.

Now unless you can carry the ball 290 , you will end up not even being able to get to the fairway on some of these courses if you wanted to play the tournament tee's. I find it very silly and unnecessary and it takes the fun out of the game of golf for most players.

Thoughts?

[wildcatden]

Glad you bring this up because this has never been discussed on GolfWRX before.

[Hawkeye77]

Where are all these courses where the players must carry the ball in the air 290 just to find the fairway? How many holes with even one such required, forced mind you, carry is played on any Tour?

 

Need to get to the bottom of the premise before going further.

[Sean2]

I could be wrong, but I felt there was more shot-making in years gone buy. A lot of the golf we see on TV today is bomb and gouge, which I find a bit boring. These guys are professionals and there should be some kind of consequence for missing a fairway. For many tournaments the rough isn't even a consideration, they will just hit it as far as they can, and if it goes in the "rough", it's no big deal.

[sdandrea]

There's two games......the one on TV, and the one we play. We have control over what tees we play and should choose the length appropriate for our ability. The TV game is mostly bomb and gouge and has a strong following so somebody likes it. I'm with you as I wish we could see more courses set up for creative shot making that are more penal for missed fairways.

[MadGolfer76]

I see both sides of it.

A Pro-Bomb and Gouge viewpoint - It doesn't make any difference at this point what you throw at these guys. In order to trap the course up enough to influence their normal play style, you would have to turn it into a US Open-style carnival course. To some degree, I couldn't blame the PGA Tour if they just saw that mountain of effort being more than they want to climb.

Anti-Bomb and Gouge viewpoint - There should be more attention paid to the stewardship of the professional men's game that doesn't point towards profits all the time. Bomb and Gouge sells, and they are milking it for all it is worth. Greens shouldn't always be perfect, there should be some rough, deeper bunkers, scrub, doglegs, narrower fairways, smaller greens, whatever. The professional game should mimic (in proportion) the typical challenges that amateur golfers face in terms of conditions. To be honest, with conditions as perfect as what they get, I am surprised the scores aren't even lower than they are.

For me, right now, watching the PGA Tour is one dimensional entertainment. Ball go far, ball lands on green, ball goes in cup - repeat 18 times and over four days. If I want art, I check out Shell's WWoG. If I want to see control, I watch LPGA. If I want to see a manageable men's professional game, I turn on the Champions Tour. If I want to see interesting locations, I watch the Euro Tour. There is still something for everyone out there.

[Shilgy]

True on the rough...except it is not because there is no rough. They are just strong enough to play from it. Most tour courses on events I’ve watched have plenty of rough up over the shoes of the players. They just manage to make it look easy playing out of it.

 

That said, I do not have an answer on how to “make” them hit fairways. The players have learned that closer is a better way to low scores and will continue to be long.

[Zen_Golfer]

Ive said many times that Id like to back to the days of persimmon woods, blades and balata golf balls. I feel like golf before the time of oversize drivers was more of a feel game and was more about accuracy and shot shaping than it was about just blasting the ball as far as you can.

[Old Tom Morris]

Every golf course has multiple sets of tees. I usually prefer to play something 6400-6600 yards. Try choosing an appropriate set where the game is both fun and challenging.

I've played lots of places and can’t recall ever having a 290 forced carry. Even the US Open doesn’t have that.

[Titleist99]

Agreed.....You have a very unique observation. Four tours, four different golf style to choose from.

[Titleist99]

Careful.....I find your post very interesting but there is a group amongst us that thinks things can't be discussed because they've discussed them before....good luck!

By the way, in all tournaments they all play the same course and at the end the lowest score always win. Just my opinion.

[oikos1]

Why do you have to play from the tips/tournament tees?

And perhaps the more important question, if you can't play from the tips/tournament tees, why are you trying to play from the tips/tournament tees?

[Irishman1979]

Because I competed professionally at one point and am still young enough to have the distance to do so. But from time to time I will play a course where they have a tee box that makes no sense to me. For example one local course has a par 3 over a lake that plays into a prevailing wind that if you play from the tips it’s a 250 yard carry to reach the green. I find that absurd but on the other hand it’s how the game has evolved with course design. 20 years ago I never ever saw something like what I see now with the new designers. Mini tour events never had us playing more than 7000 yards back then. I’d say the average distance was right around 6700-6900 yards sometimes 6600 depending on the layout. A long par 3 would be around 215-220.

[oikos1]

I see your point with a 250 yd par three. That might be more about a course having a "signature hole" than anything else. A lame and silly hole at that. There are plenty of less than 200 yd quality par threes all over the world that still challenge even the pros.

[Man_O_War]

go get fitted. Get stronger., fitter. you are obviously mixing the pro game with the amateur ranks. i hope for the day when no beer bellied golfer is seen swinging a club.

[Hawkeye77]

12 at Augusta National, 8 at Royal Troon leap to mind.

 

More folks seem to talk about shorter, quality par 3s than the other way. Seemed like some beauties at Royal Melbourne as well.

[Vindog]

Yeah I don;t play such courses. Have never even seen one.

 

And when I watch the pros, the length of hole or length of approach is just an insignificnt number to me. I don't get wowed by the distance graphics with carry and rollout and CH speed. I just watch the shots, the short game, and shot tracker.

 

The game 30 years ago was hard, man. I personally am not looking to get back to persimmon, or balata, or blades the size of a soup spoon. But that's just me, a non minitour player.

[mizuno player]

I like today game. The only thing I would like to see is the narrowing of the fairways.

[oikos1]

Yes sir! No. 16 with some history as well...

[sailfishchris]

Are you a proponent of walking/dialing the ball back too?

[Titleist99]

While watching classic golf the longest par three that I saw was 220 yards. Most of the par threes were in the 170-200 range which is about the same as todays courses.....

[MattyO1984]

If I was basing it on being a teenager watching Tiger dominate in 2000 then I would say that I did enjoy watching tournament golf more then that I do now but in general it’s golf. If they are playing on courses that look good and are making some birdies then really it’s much of a muchness. I totally get that the game doesn’t have the shot making that it once would have had but how much of that was it possible to see on TV anyway? With the invention of things like pro-tracer or whatever they happen to call it one week to the next, we are actually able to see an awful lot more or certainly got a better perspective of it than we once would have done.

 

 

[FairwayFred]

I played TPC Sawgrass for a couple days once w a friend who was on the PGA Tour at the time and was a member there. He took great pleasure in making me play from the absolute back, tournament tees and watching me struggle. There was one hole where there was a carry over water that I could not make even on my best strike. He laughed as I lost 4 balls in 4 rounds into that lake. Another hole w a huge carry over a waste bunker that I ended up in every round. I did hit 17 green all 4 times though..... Ha. Memories.

I do find the PGA Tour boring to watch on TV now. I try to watch the majors but even those don't always hold my interest. I'd rather play myself.

[TimK1]

Golf coverage has gotten way better than it used to be. I can't or have a hard time watching old reruns of tournaments from the 70's. The quality is so poor, you can't tell what's going on anyway.

As far a the pro game, I don't really care how far they hit it. I'm not out there. I do not play these courses and even if I did, I would not be playing from the tips. The ball and equipment has changed so much that most these guys are products of having grown up with the modern equipment. They are fitter now also, which can't hurt.

I'm actually a fan of the LPGA because they hit the ball distances that I do. Although some are getting longer now but on average they play more of the type of game I can relate to. On golf courses or lengths I can relate to. I drive the ball no more than 250 on average, that's not carry either. So I find it interesting to see how the smaller women manage to shoot 67's with that length.

The PGA game I cannot relate to. I saw Xander hit a 212 9 iron. Really, yes it had wind behind him and it was downhill but still. I can't relate to that. I don't even try. It's good entertainment though if you like golf.

[MattyO1984]

Some of you guys are sounding old, it’s like music. When you start thinking that the old stuff is the best then you know you are getting old.

[AndersUK]

I didn't play in those days but would love to see a sponsor create a big-money restricted equipment event just to see who would dare compete and how well they would do.

Tough, old-style (shorter than today's standards) US open type course with:

1 Choice of restricted distance balls such as high spin and very high spin.

2 Everyone plays the same restricted distance driver head albeit fully adjustable and shaft of players choice etc.

3 Choice of limited tech irons with players preferred shafts, length, loft, lie etc.

4 Any putter but leave the broom handles at home!

[Hawkeye77]

Quiet - I'm trying to listen to The Allman Brothers!

[golfer07840]

*Logs onto Golf WRX forum for first time in a month*

 

*quickly logs off when a "new" topic of the "old days" is posted (which is disguised as yet another "roll the ball back, courses are too long" discussion)*

[jonsnow]

So much for growing the game.

[jonsnow]

Would you turn down that music? I'm yelling at the clouds!