Spectacle....PGA......sports in general...

[Soloman1]

On 10/29/2020 at 10:01 AM, Bubbtubbs said:

All sports are boring unless there is something to invest you in the competition. Without a reason to care whether one competitor or another wins, what's the point in watching instead of doing something else and checking the score later?

I do not understand the fan thing anymore.

 

Why in the world would anyone care if one team (a business) defeats another team (a separate business)? And these two businesses get taxpayers to help fund building and remodeling stadiums. I wish I could get taxpayers to pay for my building. And they get people to pay for wearing their logos, buy all kinds of "fan crap" and manipulate people into getting so "excited" they cry about a bunch of millionaires running around, chasing a ball, hitting ball, throwing a ball, catching a ball and running with a ball.

 

A giant, collective waste of time and energy by so many to benefit so few.

 

 

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

On 10/29/2020 at 1:01 PM, Bubbtubbs said:

All sports are boring unless there is something to invest you in the competition. Without a reason to care whether one competitor or another wins, what's the point in watching instead of doing something else and checking the score later?

 

In a perfect world, I'd see pros playing courses I have played myself with equivalent equipment and seeing how they fare compared to my meagre attempts - that's interesting. Maybe in 20 or so years they'll have a pro simulator tour with variable lies and courses you can try yourself against recorded professional ghosts, but for now this is what we've got.

 

If you just want to see spectacle, watch a highlight reel. 

 

JMO, as crap as it is.

With the understanding that an event takes on an extra dimension when your a fan of one of the teams/players...

 

Just like a great movie is a great movie no matter who the actors are

 

A great sports performance can be a compelling watch regardless of who is playing.

[ebrasmus21]

Max out club length to 40” 

[mocokid]

10 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

I do not understand the fan thing anymore.

 

Why in the world would anyone care if one team (a business) defeats another team (a separate business)? And these two businesses get taxpayers to help fund building and remodeling stadiums. I wish I could get taxpayers to pay for my building. And they get people to pay for wearing their logos, buy all kinds of "fan crap" and manipulate people into getting so "excited" they cry about a bunch of millionaires running around, chasing a ball, hitting ball, throwing a ball, catching a ball and running with a ball.

 

A giant, collective waste of time and energy by so many to benefit so few.

 

 

 

 

 

Boring equals 4hour baseball, football, 5+ hours final rounds with constant commercials.  wait i got the answer, let's introduce gambling and really make it exciting.  We can bet on every shot or play until credit card limit is tapped.  At least the Masters doesn't have the commercial barrage, yet.......

[Bubbtubbs]

52 minutes ago, mocokid said:

Boring equals 4hour baseball, football, 5+ hours final rounds with constant commercials.  wait i got the answer, let's introduce gambling and really make it exciting.  We can bet on every shot or play until credit card limit is tapped.  At least the Masters doesn't have the commercial barrage, yet.......

I know. The golf coverage on majors really drags sometimes. That's why I watch the edited ones where they've cut the commercials and interviews.

[BNGL]

19 hours ago, mocokid said:

Boring equals 4hour baseball, football, 5+ hours final rounds with constant commercials.  wait i got the answer, let's introduce gambling and really make it exciting.  We can bet on every shot or play until credit card limit is tapped.  At least the Masters doesn't have the commercial barrage, yet.......

The Masters will never have commercials like on regular events or other majors. One they don’t need the money, Augusta National is vastly more concerned with its brand than making money...always will be. Two the only ones allowed to broadcast commercials are official partners. Media rights aren’t given, but I’ve been told it’s more of handshake deal between Augusta and CBS whereby the Green Jackets cover CBS expenses and that’s it.

[Tgstan]

Yawn. You only know how far the the pros hit it because the announcers tell you how far they hit it. 
 

Assuming arguendo that people tuned in to watch Daly hit it long, you could, at best, only see he was only long RELATIVE TO HIS PEERS. Again, we knew he was long because we were told. 
 

If ever there was a rollback the long hitters will still be the longest hitters. 
 

It’s a crap argument again a rollback. 

[bobfoster]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:19 AM, Sean2 said:

If that is true, then I would think the USGA/Mike Davis wouldn't be talking about dialing back the ball/equipment. 

 

Though I do find bomb and gouge golf a bit boring. No real finesse, shot making, or course management involved. 

 

On a side note, I don't want to see violence, whether it's two guys going at it on the hockey rink, or a NASCAR car crash. I don't find that entertaining. 

 

Right you are. While it isn't scientific or statistically relevant, the vast majority of golf is watched on TV. And IMO what is exciting on the screen is different than what is exciting in person. Simply look at all the shots that are replayed during a tournament, and that make YouTube afterwards. They usually aren't the monster drives. On TV there is little difference between 275 and 325 - they both show a shot of the ball being hit, and then a picture of it landing. Yes, sometimes a drive will go 25 yards past a competitor's ball - impressive, yes, but exciting? Well, not really. 

 

What winds up being compelling is the long looping putt. Holing it out of the sand. A hole in one on a par 3. 

 

When Tiger first began he was known for distance - he out drove almost everyone (causing an entire generation to hit the gym). But what is probably the most-watched clip from his entire career? Not his drives, but the chip on 16 at the 2005 Masters.

 

What may be the most watched clip from Jack's career? 1986, past his prime. Then suddenly on the final day he's got a real chance at Augusta, coming from behind. On 17, he has an 18 footer for birdie - hits it, raises his putter and walks it in. Takes the lead alone, and ultimately wins his 18th and final major.

 

Point is, unlike stock car racing, or football or hockey or etc., it is not speed or power, but rather intricacy and touch that makes for awe-inspiring golf on TV. The USGA knows this. 

 

PS. Hey Sean. Good to see you - I haven't been here for a couple of years. Have always liked that white tiger avatar. 

[cardoustie]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:53 AM, gators78 said:

 

 

1: Can drive it over the bunker

2: Past the corner

3: Drivable

5: Over the bunkers on the left

7: Weird to say this but almost drivable

8: Past bunkers, easily in 2

9: On the upslope

10: Down in the flat

11: Wedge in

13: Talked already, aiming for 14 fairway for the angle

14: No clue the line now

15: A par 4 now

17: Almost drivable

18: Past the bunkers like Tiger in 97 almost into 9

I disagree on 7 and 17 ... no chance ... he is not that long

 

15 has been a par 4 forever for big hitters, T dub used to go in there with a 9i even when he played a steel shafted small headed driver

[milesgiles]

 

Interesting Nascar anology

 

yes people watchfor the crashes. The golf equivalent would be topping a driver.. which is impossible, but used to happen all the time (pre 460cc heads)

 

270 vs 370 is meaningless on the telly, and fairly meaningless in person since you will struggle to see it. Bring back the real danger of the mishit, that’s exciting. 

[Sean2]

8 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

Right you are. While it isn't scientific or statistically relevant, the vast majority of golf is watched on TV. And IMO what is exciting on the screen is different than what is exciting in person. Simply look at all the shots that are replayed during a tournament, and that make YouTube afterwards. They usually aren't the monster drives. On TV there is little difference between 275 and 325 - they both show a shot of the ball being hit, and then a picture of it landing. Yes, sometimes a drive will go 25 yards past a competitor's ball - impressive, yes, but exciting? Well, not really. 

 

What winds up being compelling is the long looping putt. Holing it out of the sand. A hole in one on a par 3. 

 

When Tiger first began he was known for distance - he out drove almost everyone (causing an entire generation to hit the gym). But what is probably the most-watched clip from his entire career? Not his drives, but the chip on 16 at the 2005 Masters.

 

What may be the most watched clip from Jack's career? 1986, past his prime. Then suddenly on the final day he's got a real chance at Augusta, coming from behind. On 17, he has an 18 footer for birdie - hits it, raises his putter and walks it in. Takes the lead alone, and ultimately wins his 18th and final major.

 

Point is, unlike stock car racing, or football or hockey or etc., it is not speed or power, but rather intricacy and touch that makes for awe-inspiring golf on TV. The USGA knows this. 

 

PS. Hey Sean. Good to see you - I haven't been here for a couple of years. Have always liked that white tiger avatar. 

Hey Bob! I was out for a year too, and was wondering where you were in I recently dived back in...good to see you as well. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

9 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

Right you are. While it isn't scientific or statistically relevant, the vast majority of golf is watched on TV. And IMO what is exciting on the screen is different than what is exciting in person. Simply look at all the shots that are replayed during a tournament, and that make YouTube afterwards. They usually aren't the monster drives. On TV there is little difference between 275 and 325 - they both show a shot of the ball being hit, and then a picture of it landing. Yes, sometimes a drive will go 25 yards past a competitor's ball - impressive, yes, but exciting? Well, not really. 

 

What winds up being compelling is the long looping putt. Holing it out of the sand. A hole in one on a par 3. 

 

When Tiger first began he was known for distance - he out drove almost everyone (causing an entire generation to hit the gym). But what is probably the most-watched clip from his entire career? Not his drives, but the chip on 16 at the 2005 Masters.

 

What may be the most watched clip from Jack's career? 1986, past his prime. Then suddenly on the final day he's got a real chance at Augusta, coming from behind. On 17, he has an 18 footer for birdie - hits it, raises his putter and walks it in. Takes the lead alone, and ultimately wins his 18th and final major.

 

Point is, unlike stock car racing, or football or hockey or etc., it is not speed or power, but rather intricacy and touch that makes for awe-inspiring golf on TV. The USGA knows this. 

 

PS. Hey Sean. Good to see you - I haven't been here for a couple of years. Have always liked that white tiger avatar. 

Very well said on all points Bob!

[physasst]

On 11/3/2020 at 5:14 PM, bscinstnct said:

Yeah, golf used to be so boring...

 

If the fans think that DJ staring into space and Bryson whining to the officials is

 

Bad @ss

 

😂

 

Then what would they think of this,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly my point, Tiger changed the game and early on was overpowering courses. There was even talk about "Tiger Proofing" courses, which actually brought in MORE average sports fans. Tiger is literally the textbook example of creating spectacle and the "OH MY GOD, did you see that!" moments.

 

M

[Konklifer]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:42 AM, Dr. Block said:

As much as I completely agree with you, I think Augusta is a poor example.  I think Augusta is going to expose Bryson and his slugger approach.  I predict that not only will he not set any records, but that he won't even be in contention.   Augusta takes incredible approach shot shape, trajectory and spin control, and that is the weak point in his game.     

 

This aged well.

[golfortennis]

On 10/29/2020 at 2:01 PM, MtlJeff said:

 

They don't need to build longer courses, they WANT to build longer courses so pros won't win a tournament with -25 every weekend. There's a pretty big difference there. 

 

I agree with you that actual driving distance has little effect on TV ratings. You can't see how far the ball travelled on television.

 

I'm not convinced that guys shooting -25 or -30 would hurt ratings. It might even help them

 

But it makes old guys at the USGA angry

 

But they do need to build bigger golf courses.  How many guys on here, who were adults 30 years ago, are hitting the ball further than they did 30 years ago?  Now take those guys, and add in the younger guys who have come in swinging as hard as they can, and what do you have?  The ball is travelling a long way.

 

Now that doesn't necessarily mean that par is under attack.  But, look at Scott Fawcett's decade thing.  Even the pointy end of the stick players need to have a "cone" of 65 yards wide, because the dispersion is such.  Well when the ball travels farther, the dispersion is wider.  This requires more land, because you don't want to have a course where the other fairways are in play.  Same with courses within a housing development.  You need the real estate so the ball stays in the yard.  Then you need to water that extra acreage.

 

Just because guys don't shoot 65 every time doesn't mean there aren't a lot of guys who hit the ball a long way.  They just also hit it a long way off line quite a bit more.

[ray9898]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:53 AM, gators78 said:

 

 

1: Can drive it over the bunker

2: Past the corner

3: Drivable

5: Over the bunkers on the left

7: Weird to say this but almost drivable

8: Past bunkers, easily in 2

9: On the upslope

10: Down in the flat

11: Wedge in

13: Talked already, aiming for 14 fairway for the angle

14: No clue the line now

15: A par 4 now

17: Almost drivable

18: Past the bunkers like Tiger in 97 almost into 9

 

Prophet.

[gators78]

8 hours ago, ray9898 said:

 

Prophet.

 

Go ahead and dunk on me, that's fine. 

[PappyVanWinkle53]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:42 AM, Dr. Block said:

As much as I completely agree with you, I think Augusta is a poor example.  I think Augusta is going to expose Bryson and his slugger approach.  I predict that not only will he not set any records, but that he won't even be in contention.   Augusta takes incredible approach shot shape, trajectory and spin control, and that is the weak point in his game.     

I'd like to highlight this prediction from 10/29......you pretty much nailed it!!  Well done, Dr. Block!

[phizzy30]

Nobody gets excited for 260 yard drives and course management golf anymore.  I enjoy watching golf on TV but it can get monotonous unless I see BAD, DJ, Wolff, Cam Champ, Rory or DJ rip a drive 330+yards off the tee.  I for certain, don't want to see a ball rollback and honestly believe it's never going to happen.  It's bad for business and ratings.