Do pros rely too much on their caddies?

[pacifictour]

On 11/29/2020 at 11:51 AM, Members Only said:

This kind of relates to the rangefinder forum I just replied to. Short answer is currently subjective to the player, but in the long run, NO! A player is responsible for knowing the course and understanding what shot to hit when. A caddie is there for yardage, bag carrying, second opinions, moral support, and course knowledge, all of which a player should be capable of harnessing him/herself! If rangefinders were implement across the professional circuit, caddie's responsibilities would go down by 1/2.

Rangefinders give limited information compared to the yardage books imo

 

carry over a bunker, carry to a flat spot, distance to sides, slopes etc

 

laser gives an accurate number to a spot it can reflect off. But won’t have all the others 

 

lasers would be hugely helpful when way off line 

 

but to the OP. Every player has different responsibilities with their caddies

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, jkumpire said:

If I ever play St. Andrews I'm sure as shooting going to rely on my caddie for everything but checking my blood pressure as I play the Road Hole. 

You would know he doesn't have any faith in your game if he tells you to aim 40 yards left of the Hotel.

[Ri_Redneck]

I'm pretty sure he was having him call that ritzy restaurant to make reservations for the celebration party afterwards. He would be to busy signing his card and getting that heavy a** trophy.

 

BT

[Jifmoli]

So much money money involved so everything gets complicated. I wonder what Nicklaus and contemporaries had in their days at times. Seeing Jordan Spieth yapping about the shot with his caddie and asking if he is happy with that, I don't like.

 

Don't the pros get a practice round beforehand? That with a very basic yardage book and basic greens chart with some arrows directing flow (as you see on some infographics at times on tv) is more than enough if you ask me. Caddies should be there to handle the bag and to keep an eye on the ball.

 

Rangefinder? Recently watched a YT vlog about "playing a round without a rangefinder 😲!!!!!  Seriously? I have never used anything more than the 150m and 100m markers. If you're good enough and your income depends on it, you will learn to read yardages. Well-known YT-er Rick Shiels can read his yardage within 2 or 3 feet I have seen. I am sure the big boys can as well.

 

The covid nonsense this year gave us some interesting golf as well, with a (LPGA?) ladies tournament having players not able to use a caddie at all but still playing well. Don't mean 'let's go without caddies" but just saying.

 

Coincidentally I never used a caddie for 9 years but started this year because I got stuck in a small developing country without golf shops or anywhere to buy golf balls. Got the caddie simply to stop loosing balls and running out..

[Hawkeye77]

17 hours ago, Socrates said:

You would know he doesn't have any faith in your game if he tells you to aim 40 yards left of the Hotel.

Haha, he gave me a great line and then I pulled the ____ out of it!  Got a par, though!

[Fairway14]

23 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

What an ignorant, elitist jerkoff. 

 

Jackie Burke is a professional who knew what it took for him to play his best golf.

[Fairway14]

7 hours ago, Jifmoli said:

. I wonder what Nicklaus and contemporaries had in their days at times.

 

Caddies who showed up, kept up, and shut up.

[jordan2240]

14 hours ago, Jifmoli said:

So much money money involved so everything gets complicated. I wonder what Nicklaus and contemporaries had in their days at times. Seeing Jordan Spieth yapping about the shot with his caddie and asking if he is happy with that, I don't like.

 

Don't the pros get a practice round beforehand? That with a very basic yardage book and basic greens chart with some arrows directing flow (as you see on some infographics at times on tv) is more than enough if you ask me. Caddies should be there to handle the bag and to keep an eye on the ball.

 

Rangefinder? Recently watched a YT vlog about "playing a round without a rangefinder 😲!!!!!  Seriously? I have never used anything more than the 150m and 100m markers. If you're good enough and your income depends on it, you will learn to read yardages. Well-known YT-er Rick Shiels can read his yardage within 2 or 3 feet I have seen. I am sure the big boys can as well.

 

The covid nonsense this year gave us some interesting golf as well, with a (LPGA?) ladies tournament having players not able to use a caddie at all but still playing well. Don't mean 'let's go without caddies" but just saying.

 

Coincidentally I never used a caddie for 9 years but started this year because I got stuck in a small developing country without golf shops or anywhere to buy golf balls. Got the caddie simply to stop loosing balls and running out..

Nice.  You actually responded to two posts in one (I had another asking if anyone was thinking of ditching the rangefinder).  While the example I cited in my initial post here turned out to not be a very good one with regard to relying too much on a caddie, I think Spieth is a great example of someone who annoyingly does - and it doesn't seem to be doing him much good lately either.  I'd have to say Bryson D. is as well (Lord I'd hate to try to caddie for him).

 

[Fairway14]

1 hour ago, jordan2240 said:

, I think Spieth is a great example of someone who annoyingly does - and it doesn't seem to be doing him much good lately either.  I'd have to say Bryson D. is as well (Lord I'd hate to try to caddie for him).

 

Mostly the reason for player-caddie "pre-shot talk" is that it's a way for the player to take his time, not rush anything, and get focused on the shot at hand.

[smashdn]

Do pros rely too much on their caddies?

 

For my tastes yes.  For the amount of money that is on the line and what is within the rules, probably not.

[Loki]

I will always marvel at this scene: fourth round, second 9, tee box, in contention (you wouldn't see this exchange otherwise), both player and caddie pointing down the hole, talking. They have played this hole every single year, not to mention the three previous tourney rounds, plus any practice rounds, that week.

 

What the hell are they talking about?

[Socrates]

3 hours ago, Loki said:

I will always marvel at this scene: fourth round, second 9, tee box, in contention (you wouldn't see this exchange otherwise), both player and caddie pointing down the hole, talking. They have played this hole every single year, not to mention the three previous tourney rounds, plus any practice rounds, that week.

 

What the hell are they talking about?

Caddie is likely making sure that his player isn't thinking about doing anything stupid. 

 

Player: "Yeah, I'm striping it.  I'm gonna peel a fade off the edge trees and carry it back to the fairway."

Caddie:  "WTF?  You haven't hit a fade all day!  Hit the 'effin' 3 iron to the corner and you'll have 145 in.  (mumble, mumble,...idiot)."

[Titleist99]

The Caddy is protecting his 7-10 percent.....LOL!. Seriously tho ....The caddy is most likely informing the player where to start the ball.....

[Loki]

4 hours ago, Socrates said:

Caddie is likely making sure that his player isn't thinking about doing anything stupid. 

 

Player: "Yeah, I'm striping it.  I'm gonna peel a fade off the edge trees and carry it back to the fairway."

Caddie:  "WTF?  You haven't hit a fade all day!  Hit the 'effin' 3 iron to the corner and you'll have 145 in.  (mumble, mumble,...idiot)."

Not likely, this is an extremely experienced player, decades on tour, still active. He doesn't need the caddie to tell him where to place it. 

[Socrates]

10 minutes ago, Loki said:

Not likely, this is an extremely experienced player, decades on tour, still active. He doesn't need the caddie to tell him where to place it. 

Just because they are experienced and decades on Tour doesn't mean players don't get weird ideas about what they want to do and what the shot they want to play.  Usually the conversation is just about the club and line to hit it on and making sure they are both in agreement, but it can get complicated sometimes.

[dlygrisse]

Yeah, most probably do, they use them to affirm their decisions and it probably just becomes part of their pre shot routine. No real harm except it slows things down a bit. 
 

fun fact. Jack Nicklaus won the 1972 US Open with a local school teacher on his bag, he had never caddied before, and his name was drawn randomly.  The USGA only allowed local caddies.  https://www.montereyherald.com/2009/09/03/through-a-caddies-eyes-1972-us-open/

Edited December 5, 2020 by dlygrisse

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, dlygrisse said:

Yeah, most probably do, they use them to affirm their decisions and it probably just becomes part of their pre shot routine. No real harm except it slows things down a bit. 
 

fun fact. Jack Nicklaus won the 1972 US Open with a local school teacher on his bag, he had never caddied before, and his name was drawn randomly.  The USGA only allowed local caddies.  https://www.montereyherald.com/2009/09/03/through-a-caddies-eyes-1972-us-open/

Back in time when "show up, keep up and shut up" was the norm.  Also, the norm for local caddies being used in The Masters and British Open and I'm sure many Tour stops.

[Members Only]

On 12/1/2020 at 11:42 AM, pacifictour said:

Rangefinders give limited information compared to the yardage books imo

 

carry over a bunker, carry to a flat spot, distance to sides, slopes etc

 

laser gives an accurate number to a spot it can reflect off. But won’t have all the others 

 

lasers would be hugely helpful when way off line 

 

but to the OP. Every player has different responsibilities with their caddies

Very true, I'm just saying unless you are at the level where you are playing within +/- 1 stroke within the top 1000 players in the world, you do not need a caddie. A rangefinder will serve you fine. Caddie's are there for those accurate calculations that players who can control their wedges literally to a decimal of a yardage need. Kind of like DJ if you have ever heard him converse with his caddie over yardages.

[Maximilian]

^^^ like your profile picture. 💩

[jkumpire]

On 12/1/2020 at 2:58 PM, Socrates said:

You would know he doesn't have any faith in your game if he tells you to aim 40 yards left of the Hotel.

 

Being left handed neither would I...

[smashdn]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:40 AM, Socrates said:

Caddie is likely making sure that his player isn't thinking about doing anything stupid. 

 

Player: "Yeah, I'm striping it.  I'm gonna peel a fade off the edge trees and carry it back to the fairway."

Caddie:  "WTF?  You haven't hit a fade all day!  Hit the 'effin' 3 iron to the corner and you'll have 145 in.  (mumble, mumble,...idiot)."

 

I asked what the role of the caddie was for a pro in another thread.  Several folks indicated that they really do not talk like that and few have the leeway or sway to pull their guy aside and keep him from hurting himself.

 

I always kind of thought the caddie could save the player from himself but maybe not.

[Socrates]

2 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

I asked what the role of the caddie was for a pro in another thread.  Several folks indicated that they really do not talk like that and few have the leeway or sway to pull their guy aside and keep him from hurting himself.

 

I always kind of thought the caddie could save the player from himself but maybe not.

That was tongue in cheek for the most part.  A caddie might think it, but he's going to confirm the line and the club and hand him a club.  I doubt if any would have a job the next day if they said it out loud.  Then again, that might explain some sudden caddie changes that get made.

[Creedo77]

On 12/9/2020 at 5:08 PM, Socrates said:

That was tongue in cheek for the most part.  A caddie might think it, but he's going to confirm the line and the club and hand him a club.  I doubt if any would have a job the next day if they said it out loud.  Then again, that might explain some sudden caddie changes that get made.

There haven’t been too many "sudden" changes over the last handful of years. Most changes are based on performance (for obvious reasons) and time (where either the caddie/player get tired of one another). Of course though, talking to a player like he's an idiot is an easy way to be looking for another bag the next wek.

 

The best combination out there right now is Paul Tesori who works for Webb Simpson. Paul has caddied for some good players over the years and has the trust of Webb. Paul has one of the rare jobs in caddying where he has the ability to call off or step in at any time to advise Webb as he sees fit.

 

Not every player/caddie relationship is like the above, but like most things over time, trust is a huge factor is what you see/hear on tv when it comes to conversations that these guys have.  

 

Some players don

Edited December 12, 2020 by Creedo77