Distance - Equipment

[rogolf]

1 minute ago, dmecca2 said:

I understand the rules will be the rules and the committees and organizers or the event will not care about me and my practice at their event. But the USGA is the organization that is supposed to protect the competitive integrity of the game. And my question is directed at them. Amateurs competing has always been a huge part of their core values, and there's no way I would be as competitive as I am now, with a ball I won't get much practice time with. 

It's all pure speculation/conjecture at this point in time.  Nobody knows if and when it might occur.

As the song title says, "Don't Worry, Be Happy."

[dmecca2]

Just now, rogolf said:

It's all pure speculation/conjecture at this point in time.  Nobody knows if and when it might occur.

As the song title says, "Don't Worry, Be Happy."

I agree, unfortunately I'm not very fond of the USGA and have little faith they will make a completely unbiased, educated decision. Therefore, I worry 😞

[ThinkingPlus]

40 minutes ago, dmecca2 said:

I agree, unfortunately I'm not very fond of the USGA and have little faith they will make a completely unbiased, educated decision. Therefore, I worry 😞

Yes it is very possible the RBs are going to screw you over.  Just remember though, it isn't personal. 😉 They are going the LR route to try and avoid litigation and minimize the number of folks they pi$$ off.

[rogolf]

53 minutes ago, dmecca2 said:

I agree, unfortunately I'm not very fond of the USGA and have little faith they will make a completely unbiased, educated decision. Therefore, I worry 😞

Regardless, they do have a very good partner in the R&A.

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, dmecca2 said:

I'm sorry, so which ball is that? Because the pros will be practicing with the pro ball and the amateurs will be practicing with the amateur ball. 

The current legal ball

[Newby]

2 hours ago, dmecca2 said:

 And my question is directed at them. Amateurs competing has always been a huge part of their core values, and there's no way I would be as competitive as I am now, with a ball I won't get much practice time with. 

Won't that apply to all the players entered? Those are the only ones you are competing against

[sui generis]

The high dudgeon of the plus player is predictable. 😉

[SNIPERBBB]

On 2/3/2021 at 3:52 AM, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Lawsuit on what basis? 

All my years of playing and later umpiring high school baseball and softball, I never heard of successful lawsuits from mfgs when the equipment rules change. Which has led to some conspiracy theories that the mfgs and NFHS/NCAA was in cahoots with each other to make more money as the bat rules changed so often.

 

Suits have been attempted under potential antitrust violations.

Edited February 4, 2021 by SNIPERBBB

[irvnasty]

If they do end up nerfing equipment, and it certainly seems that the momentum is building in that direction, I hope they start by shrinking drivers to 300 or 330cc. It seems like driving distance is their utmost concern, and I think that change could go a long way to reducing both spring and the ability to swing out of one's shoes with impunity. 

 

I'm a little worried that a ball change could change interactions with irons, chipping, and putting in an undesirable way. If they want to change those things, so be it, but to me an issue with driving should be first addressed in drivers.

[SNIPERBBB]

Dont know how much shrinking the heads will do for distance. Would hurt forgiveness more.

 

Limiting lofts on driver would be interesting...

[LeoLeo99]

6 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Dont know how much shrinking the heads will do for distance. Would hurt forgiveness more.

 

Limiting lofts on driver would be interesting...

Limit lofts?  What's next, mandating a 7 iron must be between 34° and 38°?

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

2 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

Limit lofts?  What's next, mandating a 7 iron must be between 34° and 38°?

 

 

well if for some reason they decided to go that route with the driver itd push everything back towards "traditional" lofted irons.

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

well if for some reason they decided to go that route with the driver itd push everything back towards "traditional" lofted irons.

I can't see that would make any difference.  It's irrelevant what number is on the bottom of the club, a 30* loft  iron of the same length goes the same distance whether it's called a 5, 6 or 7.

Of these three things - golf course, clubs, balls - which is the easiest/least disruptive to change?  Golf courses should last decades, clubs could also (but not likely more than one decade), balls hardly last a season.  Limit the driver length to 46 inches and change the ball - size, weight or max velocity permitted, to reduce distance by 10%.  It would blow over in a few years, long hitters would still be long hitters, but it would save golf courses.

[dmecca2]

15 hours ago, Newby said:

Won't that apply to all the players entered? Those are the only ones you are competing against

It would apply to the amateur players, yes, but the professional players in the field that I am also competing against will only use the tour ball and therefore have more practice with it. 

 

In the end @ThinkingPlus is right. It may suck for me, but there are not many of me and it will be the path of least resistance for the ruling bodies. In the meantime, I will just pray that they do nothing and leave the awesome game of golf where it is. 

[bladehunter]

On 2/4/2021 at 8:03 AM, dmecca2 said:

As a competing amateur, the can of worms this opens up for me is not a fun one. Where is the line drawn for this local rule if they do, in fact, go with bifurcation? Will I need to own 2 sets of clubs? Do I need to keep 2 handicaps? Where will I find the time to practice with the conforming equipment?

I don’t get this .... if you’re a competing am , you’d use the completion equipment all the time.  Why would you use two sets ? 

[LeoLeo99]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t get this .... if you’re a competing am , you’d use the completion equipment all the time.  Why would you use two sets ? 

Money games. 

[bladehunter]

9 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

Money games. 

Depends totally on which money game.   If you’re a competing am you generally don’t play in net money games , I can only think of one I’ve ever played in.  So anyone in it will be playing the competition equipment. 

[Hawkeye77]

12 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t get this .... if you’re a competing am , you’d use the completion equipment all the time.  Why would you use two sets ? 

I used the completion equipment a lot more when I was 13, just the one set though.

[davep043]

13 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t get this .... if you’re a competing am , you’d use the completion equipment all the time.  Why would you use two sets ? 

I can see this becoming a problem for an improving golfer, perhaps someone in high school.  High school and junior competitions may allow "normal" equipment, perhaps State Amateur would require the restricted equipment, national USGA competitions would almost certainly require the restricted equipment.  To be most competitive in the lower level competitions, he'd want to use the longer clubs and/or balls.  And in a gross money game, wouldn't he choose to use the longer equipment if he was allowed to?  This is one of the (several) hurdles to be crossed in trying to set up the "voluntary local rule".  

[Newby]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

I can see this becoming a problem for an improving golfer, perhaps someone in high school.  High school and junior competitions may allow "normal" equipment, perhaps State Amateur would require the restricted equipment, national USGA competitions would almost certainly require the restricted equipment.  To be most competitive in the lower level competitions, he'd want to use the longer clubs and/or balls.  And in a gross money game, wouldn't he choose to use the longer equipment if he was allowed to?  This is one of the (several) hurdles to be crossed in trying to set up the "voluntary local rule".  

Much the same as DMDs ?

[davep043]

2 hours ago, Newby said:

Much the same as DMDs ?

Perhaps, although it seems to me that changing equipment back and forth within a season might be more difficult than using a DMD for just part of the time.  Maybe I think that way because I spent the first 30 years or more of my golf career without a DMD.

Edited February 6, 2021 by davep043

[farmer]

"there's not many of me".  In a nutshell, that is my issue with the roll back.  I'm 70, don't hit it very far, a 10% reduction means every hole is driver-fairway wood.  There are a LOT of me.

[phil75070]

16 hours ago, farmer said:

"there's not many of me".  In a nutshell, that is my issue with the roll back.  I'm 70, don't hit it very far, a 10% reduction means every hole is driver-fairway wood.  There are a LOT of me.

I'm 73 and I'm with you! I have trouble reaching longer par 4s as it is now. A 10% reduction would probably result in at least a 2 club, maybe as much as a 4 club difference when you take into account both the reduced driver distance and the loss of distance off other clubs.

[sui generis]

12 minutes ago, phil75070 said:

I'm 73 and I'm with you! I have trouble reaching longer par 4s as it is now. A 10% reduction would probably result in at least a 2 club, maybe as much as a 4 club difference when you take into account both the reduced driver distance and the loss of distance off other clubs.

 

No geezers will be impacted by these Local Rules. 😉

[dmecca2]

On 2/5/2021 at 8:35 PM, bladehunter said:

I don’t get this .... if you’re a competing am , you’d use the completion equipment all the time.  Why would you use two sets ? 

 

Local tournaments would almost certainly not use the local rule. Member guests tournaments (which are extremely popular and competitive where I live) will most definitely not use a local rule. Saturday morning games at the club, etc. State tournaments may or may not. The problem is that we have many older competitive players that play in these events. They compete while hitting their drives 250 tops. A 10% rollback for them could be devastating in tournament play. 

 

On 2/6/2021 at 12:13 PM, Newby said:

Much the same as DMDs ?

DMD's are different. It takes me 10 minutes to calibrate my walking steps to a yard. Nothing in my game changes, it just takes longer to get my number. 

 

[bladehunter]

37 minutes ago, dmecca2 said:

 

Local tournaments would almost certainly not use the local rule. Member guests tournaments (which are extremely popular and competitive where I live) will most definitely not use a local rule. Saturday morning games at the club, etc. State tournaments may or may not. The problem is that we have many older competitive players that play in these events. They compete while hitting their drives 250 tops. A 10% rollback for them could be devastating in tournament play. 

 

DMD's are different. It takes me 10 minutes to calibrate my walking steps to a yard. Nothing in my game changes, it just takes longer to get my number. 

 

I don’t think member guests is what a competitive am is aimed at.  Anything at the club level would most assuredly play under the “ anything goes “ mantra it does now.   I mean I’ve never had grooves checked , or clubs counted at the am level.  Have you ?  

Edited February 8, 2021 by bladehunter

[dmecca2]

Just now, bladehunter said:

I don’t think member guests is what a competitive am is aimed at.  Anything at the club level would most assuredly play under the “ anything goes “ mantra it does now.   I mean I’ve never had lives checked , or clubs counted at the am level.  Have you ?  

You would be surprised. Feelings get hurt around here in member guest events 😂. But for local golf association events I cant imagine they would use that local rule.

[cval]

On 2/6/2021 at 2:30 PM, farmer said:

"there's not many of me".  In a nutshell, that is my issue with the roll back.  I'm 70, don't hit it very far, a 10% reduction means every hole is driver-fairway wood.  There are a LOT of me.

Why would that be? The tees would just be adjusted to take into account the 10% reduction. Is this not the whole point of the reduction is to reduce the length of the courses?

[farmer]

1 hour ago, cval said:

Why would that be? The tees would just be adjusted to take into account the 10% reduction. Is this not the whole point of the reduction is to reduce the length of the courses?

Where I play, there are no tees further up.  There are a lot of less than elite courses that don't have the money to build a new set of tees.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Not my area of expertise in engineering aerodynamics and polymer science but it seems possible to me the ball design could be changed to only impact the fastest swing speeds. Such as redesign dimples, internal structure and polymers such that above a certain swing speed the point of diminishing returns for distance could be attained.