Power Blades discussion (formerly known as hollow / Player's distance)

[Bad9]

2 hours ago, Ger21 said:

Damn, I thought we settled on Hot Pockets and I moved on....

 

I came really close to buying some Honma TW-X's when they came out. I could have belonged to the club.

 

I'm still sulking over @MtlJeff not letting Maltby TS-2's in this club.

[MtlJeff]

1 minute ago, Bad9 said:

 

I'm still sulking over @MtlJeff not letting Maltby TS-2's in this club.

 

Let it be known that this is an inclusive club. You can be in! 

 

Just promise me you'll insert goo into your club heads. I don't need more details than that

[drumdude96]

I had a set of Adams XTD Forged that also fit into the category.  They were really good when hit on the sweet spot, but felt like crap if you missed.  I would say they were the longest-hitting set of irons I've ever had.  I've even thought about buying another set, but then I would hit one a bit on the toe and remember why I got rid of mine in the first place.  I think it's best to leave them in the past, like that crazy ex girlfriend that every dude has that was awesome in the sack, but you finally realized that the drama wasn't worth it and dumped her.  But damn, those 190 yard 7 irons...

[beaney]

They definitely have appeal. 
 

I recently had a set of Apex. Loved the looks, liked the feel and the forgiveness was great. The whole loft/distance debate will always polarise, but I found that the lofts kept the flight/height under control, and distance was only 5 yds longer than my srixons, so certainly no madness. 
 

the flyer subject keeps coming up in these threads, but here’s my take. I never saw a flyer from a fairway, and a well struck shot flew the predicated distance. However as some have alluded to, the spin is generally low and it therefore doesn’t seem to take much for the spin to fall out of that optimal window (rough, water on the face,or an off centre strike), and when that happens you are prone to a flyer. I guess that’s the case with all irons, but just a little more with these because you’re starting on the edge of correct spin. 
 

so if you are a high spin player or you can pair with a high spin shaft, then their great, but if you’re a low spin player, you’re always going to be prone to the odd fiery one!

[Drivingrangehero]

5 hours ago, beaney said:

so if you are a high spin player or you can pair with a high spin shaft, then their great, but if you’re a low spin player, you’re always going to be prone to the odd fiery one!

When comparing my past blades (MP-67 with X100 shafts) to my current hollow body irons (MP-20 HMB) loft for loft, I saw almost no difference in launch, spin or distance. The only thing that changed was the number in the bottom of the club, being that the MP-67 loft for a 4-5-6 iron is identical to an MP-20 HMB 5-6-7 iron. 

MP 20 HMB.           7 iron loft 32*

MP 67 Cut MB.       6 iron loft 32*

MP 20 MB.              7 iron loft 34*
 

My launch, spin, and ball speed were all very close loft for loft. Almost identical in the MP 67 and HMB

 

The MP-67 and the HMB were tested side by side with the same DG x100 shafts. The HMB launched 1* higher, spin rate was 300 rpm less, ball speed was 1 mph less and the carry distance was 2 yards shorter with the HMB, loft for loft. These differences may have been even tighter if the shafts were the same length, but the standard HMB 7 iron was 1/4 shorter than the standard MP-67 6 iron. 

 

I ended up in a Modus 105s hs/x1 at D4.5-D5. The whole reason for me getting new clubs was to get away from the DG X100 due to back issues/arthritis. The Modus 105s had me launch 1/2* higher than the DG X100 and spin 300rpm more with HMB head with an increase in ball speed of 2mph. So, loft for loft with the HMB Modus 105s and the DG X100 MP-67’s, they are now almost identical. The HMB’s launch is 1/2* higher, ball speed is 1mph higher and spin is the same as the MP-67 with the x100 loft for loft. Take in the consideration that I’m not a robot, and these numbers could be considered equal with a margin of error from the guy swinging the club ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I don’t see much of a difference loft for loft in spin or launch. I think if you are a low spin player, you would have a “fiery” one in the same lofted club from a blade or cavity back as you would a “players distance” iron.  If a 200-300 spin drop due to design is going to put someone over the edge, maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  but you should launch the players distance club higher than your corresponding blade loft for loft,  due to the club being shorter (7iron instead of 6 iron playing length in most cases ) so that should offset it . 
 

My thinking is that people who teeter on lower spin with any club, are catching the “flier” due to face contact, loft and ball speed retention. If you have a situation where a flier could occur with a bit of water on the ball and a few blades of grass between the ball and the club, plus  your face contact wasn’t perfect with your bladed iron, you will see more ball speed drop than you would a Hollow Body iron.  You may have hit the blade close to the same overall distance, with less carry and more roll with less ball speed. If you retain more ball speed on a less than perfect strike with a hollow body iron, you may go long. You had the same thing occur, lower spin, but the ball speed retention was higher, that would cause it to travel longer. I just think that the whole “flier” argument can be debunked for the most part. I’m sure some designs will produce lower spin than others loft for loft, but it isn’t going to be wild numbers like + or - 800rpm loft for loft. 
 

I chose the HMB due to the loft being weaker than almost all other hollow body designs other than the T-MB’s. I primarily liked the look and turf interaction of the HMB as a sweeper, plus I just found them easier to gap than the Cobra or the P790’s 

 

Im willing to bet Im going to hit each 32* club within a few yards of each other with the same playing length and shaft, regardless of the irons construction, whether it’s cast, forged, hollow bodied, muscle back or cavity back and all I would need to change is balls. My thinking on this anyways! 

Maybe I’ll start a thread discussion on this  topic 🤔 

 

 

[MtlJeff]

^^^ I would agree that i don't think any irons are going to be really noticeably longer, spec for spec, regardless of their construction. 

 

Give me 5 different 32 degree irons as you say with the same shaft and shaft length. I will hit some further, i'd guess maybe 5yds max....and it will likely be due to optimal trajectory

 

I just love these clubs so far due to the look and feel, and the trajectory i get with them. I don't feel i am hitting them further than my G410

[beaney]

48 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

When comparing my past blades (MP-67 with X100 shafts) to my current hollow body irons (MP-20 HMB) loft for loft, I saw almost no difference in launch, spin or distance. The only thing that changed was the number in the bottom of the club, being that the MP-67 loft for a 4-5-6 iron is identical to an MP-20 HMB 5-6-7 iron. 

MP 20 HMB.           7 iron loft 32*

MP 67 Cut MB.       6 iron loft 32*

MP 20 MB.              7 iron loft 34*
 

My launch, spin, and ball speed were all very close loft for loft. Almost identical in the MP 67 and HMB

 

The MP-67 and the HMB were tested side by side with the same DG x100 shafts. The HMB launched 1* higher, spin rate was 300 rpm less, ball speed was 1 mph less and the carry distance was 2 yards shorter with the HMB, loft for loft. These differences may have been even tighter if the shafts were the same length, but the standard HMB 7 iron was 1/4 shorter than the standard MP-67 6 iron. 

 

I ended up in a Modus 105s hs/x1 at D4.5-D5. The whole reason for me getting new clubs was to get away from the DG X100 due to back issues/arthritis. The Modus 105s had me launch 1/2* higher than the DG X100 and spin 300rpm more with HMB head with an increase in ball speed of 2mph. So, loft for loft with the HMB Modus 105s and the DG X100 MP-67’s, they are now almost identical. The HMB’s launch is 1/2* higher, ball speed is 1mph higher and spin is the same as the MP-67 with the x100 loft for loft. Take in the consideration that I’m not a robot, and these numbers could be considered equal with a margin of error from the guy swinging the club ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I don’t see much of a difference loft for loft in spin or launch. I think if you are a low spin player, you would have a “fiery” one in the same lofted club from a blade or cavity back as you would a “players distance” iron.  If a 200-300 spin drop due to design is going to put someone over the edge, maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  but you should launch the players distance club higher than your corresponding blade loft for loft,  due to the club being shorter (7iron instead of 6 iron playing length in most cases ) so that should offset it . 
 

My thinking is that people who teeter on lower spin with any club, are catching the “flier” due to face contact, loft and ball speed retention. If you have a situation where a flier could occur with a bit of water on the ball and a few blades of grass between the ball and the club, plus  your face contact wasn’t perfect with your bladed iron, you will see more ball speed drop than you would a Hollow Body iron.  You may have hit the blade close to the same overall distance, with less carry and more roll with less ball speed. If you retain more ball speed on a less than perfect strike with a hollow body iron, you may go long. You had the same thing occur, lower spin, but the ball speed retention was higher, that would cause it to travel longer. I just think that the whole “flier” argument can be debunked for the most part. I’m sure some designs will produce lower spin than others loft for loft, but it isn’t going to be wild numbers like + or - 800rpm loft for loft. 
 

I chose the HMB due to the loft being weaker than almost all other hollow body designs other than the T-MB’s. I primarily liked the look and turf interaction of the HMB as a sweeper, plus I just found them easier to gap than the Cobra or the P790’s 

 

Im willing to bet Im going to hit each 32* club within a few yards of each other with the same playing length and shaft, regardless of the irons construction, whether it’s cast, forged, hollow bodied, muscle back or cavity back and all I would need to change is balls. My thinking on this anyways! 

Maybe I’ll start a thread discussion on this  topic 🤔 

 

 

Can’t disagree with any of that. 

[lefthack]

@Drivingrangehero hit the nail spot on the head, I think. It's interesting to hear that loft for loft saw little to no difference despite being different lengths. I am not surprised in the least as an engineer who understands physics. 

 

And yet I still find it hilarious that folks get hung up on the number on the bottom of the club and not the clubs physical attributes (loft, length, overall weight, swing weight...). 

 

I theorize that "fliers" are actually a solid hit that your janky swing only produces once in a while and they catch you by surprise. But that is pure theory on my part.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

58 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

^^^ I would agree that i don't think any irons are going to be really noticeably longer, spec for spec, regardless of their construction. 

 

Give me 5 different 32 degree irons as you say with the same shaft and shaft length. I will hit some further, i'd guess maybe 5yds max....and it will likely be due to optimal trajectory

 

I just love these clubs so far due to the look and feel, and the trajectory i get with them. I don't feel i am hitting them further than my G410

 

I've lots of iron sets, mostly old, and switch out a lot. When playing my old sets, I usually just club up one compared to my modern irons and get the same results. So, an old 8i will be about 42* and 36 inches or so, which is like a modern 9i. They go the same distance.

 

But I've noticed that the hollow body irons power blades are a bit different in the longer irons. May be the lower spin, but the distance with roll out is about a club. Just a little bit hotter. 

Which is nice.

 

 

[localpar3guy]

I had the filled PXG 0211's, switched from those to hollow/not filled Honma TW-X irons. The Honma irons are better, no other way to explain it. I am getting more distance and better dispersion. The long irons are so hittable it is outrageous. I think the club heads and the stock NS Pro Modus 105 shaft are just perfect for me. I am able to hit draws and fades on demand. They look amazing, have serious bag appeal but also perform better than anything else I've hit.

 

I am curious to know if these goo filled heads that have become so popular are hurting performance, if they don't perform well when the club head is cold, etc. I felt that way about the 0211's, and now since I am playing irons without any filling and playing even better I am starting to believe that it is possible.

 

I also have seen pictures of P790's with green fluid leaking out of the black speed pocket thing after someone played in the middle of the summer. Just don't know how concerned one should be with weather and these goo filled heads.

Edited April 3, 2021 by localpar3guy

[MK7Golf21]

I like TM version especially for players who need a bit more distance without going into a huge iron and I thought they felt decent. I would only play them in a long iron. You have to wonder how long that foam inside will hold up though.

 

I was reading golf digest the other day and had Dustin Johnson’s bag in it, on his irons he says he plays blades because CB irons launch too low with not enough spin for him and he misses right with them from the head being bigger. Says he hits blades higher and straighter since they are easier to turn over. Thought it was an interesting take on irons 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Redjeep83

[jonskelly91]

21 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I went with the Mizuno HMB, but I loved the Cobra Forged Tec. 
 

I think the Forged Tec were just as soft feeling as the Mizuno’s and my low on the face miss, wasn’t punished as much with them. I only chose the Mizuno’s because I like the looks better and the lofts just worked better for me in regards to launch/spin for gapping.
 

I think shaft has a lot to do with feel as well. I hit the Mizuno HMB’s with Modus 120x  at the time, next to my Mizuno MP-67’s with DG X100’s and they felt every bit as good. I play the Modus 105s hs/x1 now) The Cobra’s I hit with a stock KBS stiff shaft (not sure what KBS shaft it was, but it felt great, every bit as good as the Mizuno HMB. 
 

As far as “flyers”I think it’s a myth for the most part. I think they are very consistent. I think the whole “flyer” comes from two different reasons most likely

 

1. people just not finding the center of the face consistently 

 

2.The lofts are stronger, they may be border line too low of spin for their speed/delivery, so a little water on the ball, or a shade heavy and their already low spin, becomes a knuckle ball “flyer”. 
 

When I tested the HMB with the Modus 105s I was consistently hitting the same numbers 18* launch 6600rpm spin, 126mph ball speed. That put me between 178-182 carry. When I put a the club sticker and line on the ball to check lie angle. I was getting 4300rpm spin. The 2300rpm less spin had me fly the ball 191-194 carry with a much longer roll out. Instead of flying 178 and total being 184 yards, they were flying 190 and rolling out over 200 yards.  So personally, I think the “ I sometimes get a flyer that goes 15 yards long” is a misnomer. 

 

.

 

That's an interesting take. I can get behind that too.

[Drivingrangehero]

32 minutes ago, lefthack said:

I theorize that "fliers" are actually a solid hit that your janky swing only produces once in a while and they catch you by surprise. But that is pure theory on my part.

 
I want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I think this is a considerable percentage  of players that make these claims, coupled with them not producing a sufficient amount of spin to begin with. 
 

As far as the loft debate that discussed ad nauseam, I find it comical as well. It’s most often coming from blade snobs, but the funny part about it, if they look back over time, they are playing jacked lofts with their modern blades as well.

 

The first new set of clubs I got were Wilson Staff Progressives from the 90’s, they are 3* weaker than the New Callaway Apex MB as well as the Mizuno MP-20 MB. My grandfather played a set of Hogans from the early 70’s Apex? I remember I was almost a club shorter with his clubs, which were 2.5* weaker than my Wilson Staff Progressives

 

So modern blades have up to 5 1/2* stronger (jacked) lofts than my Grandfathers old blades..... it’s no wonder he was always chipping with his 9 iron 😂 

 

I remember hitting his Hogan Wooden Driver longer than my Ping Eye Wooden driver now and then. 

 

[Circaflex]

How does the i500 get lumped in a blades discussion? Far from a blade...

[Cwing]

2 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

^^^ I would agree that i don't think any irons are going to be really noticeably longer, spec for spec, regardless of their construction. 

 

Give me 5 different 32 degree irons as you say with the same shaft and shaft length. I will hit some further, i'd guess maybe 5yds max....and it will likely be due to optimal trajectory

 

I just love these clubs so far due to the look and feel, and the trajectory i get with them. I don't feel i am hitting them further than my G410

Crazy talk right there....

 

Take your five 32* irons and identify them as:

9 iron

8 iron

7 iron

6 iron 

5 iron and they will all perform differently.

 

🤪

Edited April 3, 2021 by Cwing

[Drivingrangehero]

35 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

How does the i500 get lumped in a blades discussion? Far from a blade...

They are not pretending to be a “blade” by what their website says 

 

https://ping.com/en-us/clubs/irons/i500

 

That leads me to this question 

 

“what is a blade?”

 

I had a set of MP-32’s, many will say they are not blades...... so, what is a blade? 
 

1 piece forged iron.... ok, there are 1 piece forged cavity backs

 

2 No cavity backs..... ok, back to the MP-32 and my MP-67’s, both had a cut out portion from the back. Is there a cut off on how much mass can be removed 🤔 if it’s any, I guess they are out

 

3 If weight is distributed instead of towards the perimeter, but the center a true blade? Taylormade RAC TP, Sub 70 TA III, New Level 623’s are out

 

4 Does the irons metallurgy have to be carbon? If so what is the proper metal to be considered a blade.... stainless? No, that eliminates a few more manufacturers 

 

5. No tech.... ok, the Callaway Apex MB has tech, with the weight in the back, so that can’t qualify

6 Does  it have to have acceptable loft parameters to be considered a true blade? The 1972 Hogan Apex is in, and many modern are out 

 

 

The list can go on and on unfortunately. It’s like the No true Scotsman fallacy, so ................. again 

 

What is a blade? 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Drivingrangehero
.

[Drivingrangehero]

12 minutes ago, Cwing said:

Crazy talk right there....

 

Take your five 32* irons and identify them as:

9 iron

8 iron

7 iron

6 iron 

5 iron and they will all perform differently.

 

🤪

Correct, if they have different shaft lengths, and headweight, otherwise, not so much! 😝 

 

 

[MtlJeff]

2 hours ago, Circaflex said:

How does the i500 get lumped in a blades discussion? Far from a blade...

 

If you mean this thread overall, this is dedicated to the new category we have dubbed "power blades" which refer to a larger blade like design that is hollow and filled with foam (or "goo")

[PigPyle]

Made the jump to the Ping i500’s after 9 years of gaming SGI Clevelands and couldn’t be happier. The ball launches sky-high so I don’t mind the lack of spin, and I haven’t had an issue with flyers. Opinions on the i500’s seem very divided in terms of forgiveness but I find them quite forgiving. The ball still goes straight on mis-hits and I don’t lose a ton of distance on thin/fat hits. I absolutely love the look of them too!

[lefthack]

Honma TR21X, no lefty. 😞

 

 

[mootrail]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:17 AM, boggyman said:

You should patent “Power Blades”

 

Well, except they're hollow and not blades.

[MtlJeff]

9 minutes ago, mootrail said:

 

Well, except they're hollow and not blades.

 

The definition of power blades is that they be filled with a foamy or gooey substance, and have the appearance of a larger blade (ie - no exterior cavity)

 

[cmatthews77]

On 4/3/2021 at 10:05 AM, Redjeep83 said:

I like TM version especially for players who need a bit more distance without going into a huge iron and I thought they felt decent. I would only play them in a long iron. You have to wonder how long that foam inside will hold up though.

 

I was reading golf digest the other day and had Dustin Johnson’s bag in it, on his irons he says he plays blades because CB irons launch too low with not enough spin for him and he misses right with them from the head being bigger. Says he hits blades higher and straighter since they are easier to turn over. Thought it was an interesting take on irons 

 

 

I 1000% think blades are easier or as easy to hit (for me) in the short irons than anything else. My son has some 718 AP1s I bought him and every now and then I want to hit them and they’re just harder for me for some reason. 
 

My only issue with blades is that I start losing gaps in the longer irons because of my lack of speed and consistent striking. So I pack a bit of forgiveness there just to keep gaps where I need them and weaken lofts accordingly. 

[lefthack]

40 minutes ago, cmatthews77 said:

My only issue with blades is that I start losing gaps in the longer irons because of my lack of speed and consistent striking. So I pack a bit of forgiveness there just to keep gaps where I need them and weaken lofts accordingly. 

 

This is why combo sets just make sense to me. Maybe I could play a full blade set, but I like having a little help up top. Having a blade 7 has been awesome with my new set. But every so often I get caught slipping and that blade lets me know it. 🤣

[boggyman]

5 hours ago, mootrail said:

 

Well, except they're hollow and not blades.

Lol, I know they’re not blades! It was a friendly gesture to @MtlJeff 

Edited April 5, 2021 by boggyman

[Multipass613]

Playing Maltby TS-1 irons, very interesting comments and reasoning in this thread, as a high spin / high launch player I have yet to hit a single "flier" from a clean lie. Makes sense that a natural low spin player could experience that type of shot though.

 

They give you the thin topline and narrower sole of a blade with the forgiveness of a larger cavity back. A winning design IMO for a lot of wannabe tour fanboys like me haha.

[00bolt]

I have a set of Taylormade P770 on its way. Playing Friday and Sunday. Should have some feedback soon 

[Sandles]

Have been using my HMBs for +8 months now and I'm still in love... Ordered the 2iron with the Modus 120 stiff (as per my 4-PW) and it arrived last week. 3 rounds later (Easter break) and from the first hit it's averaging 220m / 240y. Sure this is quite a gap over my 4i (185m) and it does roll on, but doesn't matter as it's for driving on short tight par 4s or 2nd on par 5.

 

My hybrid is now retired indefinately and I struggle to justify pulling out the 3w. Guess I'm outside the norm (read that 3irons are dead etc), but I find this gooey 16 degree much easier to hit consistently off the tee or deck and feels great (moreso when members of the group chuckle as it rolls up to their drive). 

[GolfTurkey]

I play the JPX 921 forged 2 degrees weak. Used to play i500 in retro spec lofts (2 weak).

 

IMO 921F has the power of a power blade, is extremely forgiving and has the proper forged feel. 

[lefthack]

The big man rocking hollow bodies on tour, damn.

 

https://golf.com/gear/john-daly-wall-to-wall-equipment/

 

Daly is the first pro to employ the players-distance model on Tour. The hollow-body construction and military-grade maraging steel L-Cup face are geared for forgiveness and distance — two things Daly has rarely needed in his career.