Coaching HS Golf advice

[dgarland]

3 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Both. Compiled average selects the top 3/4, weekly qualifiers for the other 1/2 spots. HS golf is a team sport so treat it like one. Does a football coach bench his star QB because he threw one or two interceptions in practice? Does a basketball coach bench his best power forward because he only hit 60% of his free throws in a mid-week scrimmage? 

 

Lets say your best player hits a borderline drive on one hole that takes a terrible bounce and goes OB. That bounce could cause your best player to not be in the starting rotation for a match that week because you did a separate, single qualifying round for each event. I would hope that is a situation you would want to avoid.

 

 

This will definitely be what I do.  That is a spectacular idea.  Thank you very much... and thanks to everyone who has replied, I appreciate the input.

[nuthin but a hacker]

I can tell you some things NOT to do based off of what my daughter’s new coach this year is doing. 
 

Don’t try to change the swing of established players on the team. Help the newbies if you like but leave the other kids alone. They’ve been playing a long time at this point. First day of practice this year he watches my daughter swing a few times and declares “You’ll never go far with that swing”. Ok Jethro, it only got her to the state championship last year. Whatever. 
 

Don’t ride around all over the course looking for a spot to chip and putt while the kids are playing. And if you just HAVE to do this, don’t be loud and disturb the kids who are trying to play. 
 

Don’t ask the kids to play practice rounds with only 3 clubs. They will never have to do this in a match. Ever. 
 

That’s all I have for now but we have more matches to go so I’m sure he will give me more material. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by nuthin but a hacker

[dgarland]

2 hours ago, nuthin but a hacker said:

I can tell you some things NOT to do based off of what my daughter’s new coach this year is doing. 
 

Don’t try to change the swing of established players on the team. Help the newbies if you like but leave the other kids alone. They’ve been playing a long time at this point. First day of practice this year he watches my daughter see ing a few times and declares “You’ll never go far with that swing”. Ok Jethro, it only got her to the state championship last year. Whatever. 
 

Don’t ride around all over the course looking for a spot to chip and putt while the kids are playing. And if you just HAVE to do this, don’t be loud and disturb the kids who are trying to play. 
 

Don’t ask the kids to play practice rounds with only 3 clubs. They will never have to do this in a match. Ever. 
 

That’s all I have for now but we have more matches to go so I’m sure he will give me more material. 

Why no 3 club practice round?  Won’t that help them develop new shots?

[LeoLeo99]

Sounds like it's harder for you if you came in 2nd in a tournament.  Now there are expectations.  My high school team was in the middle of the pack among our local schools and coach knew we would win against the bad schools and lose against the really good schools.  We played 9 hole matches 5x5 match play for 3 points.  First 5 holes for a point, last 4 holes for a point and all 9 for a point.  It was a great format.  They switched to medal play now.  There were no tournaments.  Our golf coach was also the basketball coach and saved all the coaching for them.  He just made sure we played fairly and were organized and played with integrity.  Maybe a swing tip here and there but no swing coaching.  Back then we didn't have team shirts or bags or anything.  One guy on my team became a club pro.  The best player on our team didn't fare so well in life.  

[Hawkeye77]

On 8/27/2021 at 8:31 PM, dgarland said:

Why no 3 club practice round?  Won’t that help them develop new shots?

Magically?  Out of thin air? That limited experiment might be a fun thing and valuable for that, but a 3 club practice round really won't help them develop new shots.  Better and more focused ways to help them develop "new" shots if someone needs them. Let them use all their clubs and tee off from forward tees, or set some boxes up well forward of usual if they are already off the shorter boxes - they'll get more out of that in terms of scoring and playing experience.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[DevilDog]

On 7/23/2021 at 12:18 PM, dgarland said:

I am coaching a newly formed HS golf team this upcoming season.  I've coached basketball and baseball in the past but never golf.  I'm open for advice on all aspects of coaching golf... specifically ideas for practice and some insight on how the HS matches are run, although any input would be appreciated.  

 

Our club pro is the coach for my son's high school so I asked him.  He said that most kids don't have a swing coach but need one but the high school coach can't coach swing for the team.  What the high school coach does is try to assist with on course management.  Here the coach is only allowed to speak to players between green just completed and next tee.  He does have them do swing drills on the range that any instructor would have them do on practice days but that's about it on swing coaching.  My son, for instance, has his own swing coach so the high school coach shouldn't be coaching his swing at all.  

[ThePutterGirl]

If this helps at all...

 

One thing I wish my high school coach had done differently was promote team camraderie between the skilled and less skilled players.  We had three or four girls that could shoot in the 70's- low 80's and then the rest of us hovered at 95-115 and it honestly felt like we played on two teams.  In practice rounds or other practices  our coach always had the better players play/practice together.  

 

Obviously there were reasons for this, but it created a lot of awkwardness on the team (especially bc it's high school girls! ).  Everyone knew if they were an important  "important" player or a "space filler".  Ironically, the better players were more uncomfortable with it a lot of the time. 

 

Looking back, as one of the "less experienced" players on the team I do think I would have learned a lot practicing with the better players, especially the mental aspects of the game. I also think it subtly undermined my confidence in our our matches and tournaments.  

 

 

[weavej1]

1 hour ago, ThePutterGirl said:

If this helps at all...

 

One thing I wish my high school coach had done differently was promote team camraderie between the skilled and less skilled players.  We had three or four girls that could shoot in the 70's- low 80's and then the rest of us hovered at 95-115 and it honestly felt like we played on two teams.  In practice rounds or other practices  our coach always had the better players play/practice together.  

 

Obviously there were reasons for this, but it created a lot of awkwardness on the team (especially bc it's high school girls! ).  Everyone knew if they were an important  "important" player or a "space filler".  Ironically, the better players were more uncomfortable with it a lot of the time. 

 

Looking back, as one of the "less experienced" players on the team I do think I would have learned a lot practicing with the better players, especially the mental aspects of the game. I also think it subtly undermined my confidence in our our matches and tournaments.  

 

 

On another level….practicing with some one of different skills could help both, it helps prepare the higher skilled player to look past the other and remain focused and centered on thier game and teaches the lower level

player to not be anxious and watch what golfers with better skills do on the course.

Edited September 7, 2021 by weavej1

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

14 hours ago, ThePutterGirl said:

If this helps at all...

 

One thing I wish my high school coach had done differently was promote team camraderie between the skilled and less skilled players.  We had three or four girls that could shoot in the 70's- low 80's and then the rest of us hovered at 95-115 and it honestly felt like we played on two teams.  In practice rounds or other practices  our coach always had the better players play/practice together.  

 

Obviously there were reasons for this, but it created a lot of awkwardness on the team (especially bc it's high school girls! ).  Everyone knew if they were an important  "important" player or a "space filler".  Ironically, the better players were more uncomfortable with it a lot of the time. 

 

Looking back, as one of the "less experienced" players on the team I do think I would have learned a lot practicing with the better players, especially the mental aspects of the game. I also think it subtly undermined my confidence in our our matches and tournaments.  

 

 

I have always hated this for young adults.  High school is weird enough.

 

Now let's make it even weirder during practice and not have any team unity.

 

My son's teams were like this throughout high school.  His last two years of HS they had like 20 kids.  He basically knew 7.

 

Him and the other Capt. Senior year ask for scramble Fridays, so everybody could play together.

 

My daughter's team is much like you described.  Its a group of girls that constantly play and can go low.  She has been in the number 1 spot since her freshman year.  She has the mental make up to handle it, but she even admits the coach doesn't try to help the other kids.

 

It was rough for her Freshman and Sophomore years with the cat stares.  I think now she embraces it.  But I am a Dad with a 16yo daughter do I truly know anything. 🙂

[Mike_C]

On 8/27/2021 at 6:16 PM, nuthin but a hacker said:

Don’t try to change the swing of established players on the team. Help the newbies if you like but leave the other kids alone. They’ve been playing a long time at this point. First day of practice this year he watches my daughter swing a few times and declares “You’ll never go far with that swing”. Ok Jethro, it only got her to the state championship last year. Whatever.

 

 

This.  Especially if you don't know what you are doing.....

 

My daughter played years ago, the "golf coach" was the former highly respected football coach in his twilight years at the school, he liked to golf so they gave him the girls golf team when he was done with football.

 

Nice guy, but had no business giving golf advice.  For instance, he had all the girls doing drills to stop hitting a slice, buy my daughter didn't hit a slice, she ended up duck hooking the ball based on his advice.  She was just an OK player, mid to low 80s or so when she played well, but was strong and hit it pretty far compared to the other girls, he goofed her swing up badly....

 

She also had a a quite good short game, one thing she could actually hit is a flop shot, she didn't think anything of it, just opened the face and swang, maybe by watching Tiger on TV or something,  I don't know, but she could do it perfectly almost every time with a good lie.  The coach freaked out when he saw her do it and told her to stop it as it was too risky.  That got in her head and messed up her short game.....

[RmoorePE]

Our local HS boys team just started this season, my daughters are friends with a few of the players and I was speaking with them last night. One of the kids couldn't make the JV team for the first two events, even though I know he is better than over half of the kids there. The reason is that the older kids pencil whipped their scores to ensure they got to travel. It is a big golf team, almost 25 kids and they take 12 (6 V, and 6 JV). The coach cannot watch them to be able to question their scores, but I know he is seeing the results after 2 matches and will try to reign in the cheaters. What he really needs is an assistant. The biggest issue is that the cheaters are the older kids who know the system, and so the younger kids have a hard time sticking their nose in. As a coach I recommend staying vigilant and talking to the players individually about their scoring as well as a team.

 

My high school coach was my basketball coach too (pretty common at most schools). He never taught us anything about our golf swings, but he did give me one lesson on lag putting that I will never forget. Me and another team mate were playing a round with him after practice, I had just made a horrible 3 putt bogey and he said to me "If the hole was as big as a hula hoop could you make it?" I said "yeah, most of the time." Coach just walked off the green and never said anything else, but I got the point.

 

I think he liked to coach golf because we had quite a few basketball players, and we could never make excuses to miss open gym. I remember the golf team van taking us directly from a golf match to the gym to change and shoot baskets.

 

[Gsea]

1 hour ago, RmoorePE said:

Our local HS boys team just started this season, my daughters are friends with a few of the players and I was speaking with them last night. One of the kids couldn't make the JV team for the first two events, even though I know he is better than over half of the kids there. The reason is that the older kids pencil whipped their scores to ensure they got to travel. It is a big golf team, almost 25 kids and they take 12 (6 V, and 6 JV). The coach cannot watch them to be able to question their scores, but I know he is seeing the results after 2 matches and will try to reign in the cheaters. What he really needs is an assistant. The biggest issue is that the cheaters are the older kids who know the system, and so the younger kids have a hard time sticking their nose in. As a coach I recommend staying vigilant and talking to the players individually about their scoring as well as a team.

 

My high school coach was my basketball coach too (pretty common at most schools). He never taught us anything about our golf swings, but he did give me one lesson on lag putting that I will never forget. Me and another team mate were playing a round with him after practice, I had just made a horrible 3 putt bogey and he said to me "If the hole was as big as a hula hoop could you make it?" I said "yeah, most of the time." Coach just walked off the green and never said anything else, but I got the point.

 

I think he liked to coach golf because we had quite a few basketball players, and we could never make excuses to miss open gym. I remember the golf team van taking us directly from a golf match to the gym to change and shoot baskets.

 

Maybe you should volunteer as an asst instead taking s*** on the internet

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, RmoorePE said:

Our local HS boys team just started this season, my daughters are friends with a few of the players and I was speaking with them last night. One of the kids couldn't make the JV team for the first two events, even though I know he is better than over half of the kids there. The reason is that the older kids pencil whipped their scores to ensure they got to travel. It is a big golf team, almost 25 kids and they take 12 (6 V, and 6 JV). The coach cannot watch them to be able to question their scores, but I know he is seeing the results after 2 matches and will try to reign in the cheaters. What he really needs is an assistant. The biggest issue is that the cheaters are the older kids who know the system, and so the younger kids have a hard time sticking their nose in. As a coach I recommend staying vigilant and talking to the players individually about their scoring as well as a team.

 

My high school coach was my basketball coach too (pretty common at most schools). He never taught us anything about our golf swings, but he did give me one lesson on lag putting that I will never forget. Me and another team mate were playing a round with him after practice, I had just made a horrible 3 putt bogey and he said to me "If the hole was as big as a hula hoop could you make it?" I said "yeah, most of the time." Coach just walked off the green and never said anything else, but I got the point.

 

I think he liked to coach golf because we had quite a few basketball players, and we could never make excuses to miss open gym. I remember the golf team van taking us directly from a golf match to the gym to change and shoot baskets.

 

 

 

If a coach can't control the kids and they put down what ever they want on a scorecard why would anyone want to play on that team.  

 

If they are cheating to play you have to assume they would cheat in a tournament.  It's pretty easy to spot kids shaving strokes.  If you got a kid who can't hit a fairway or greens and they writing 72 on their card you know something is up.  

Edited September 8, 2021 by tiger1873

[RmoorePE]

 

1 hour ago, Gsea said:

Maybe you should volunteer as an asst instead taking s*** on the internet

 

LOL. I think this thread is about coaching advice - the advice is to check in with the kids on their scoring and try to root out the cheaters. 

 

However, if I had time I surely would assist the golf team and coach would take my help no doubt. But it is volleyball season and so every other afternoon/evening is booked, I only have just enough time to talk s*** on the internet.

[ThePutterGirl]

11 hours ago, RmoorePE said:

 

 

LOL. I think this thread is about coaching advice - the advice is to check in with the kids on their scoring and try to root out the cheaters. 

 

However, if I had time I surely would assist the golf team and coach would take my help no doubt. But it is volleyball season and so every other afternoon/evening is booked, I only have just enough time to talk s*** on the internet.

Hate to say it, but this is spot on...

 

At the high school level, there is a lot fo cheating, but it is not all intentional. 

 

Unless the kids have been playing AJGA, it is very unlikely a high school freshman has been playing and keeping score under the "complete" rules of golf if most of their prior golf is casual golf with parents, family and friends.  

 

There are two kinds of cheating in high school golf 

• Intentional cheating 
• Accidental cheating from a player not knowing the ins and outs of the rules 

It gets murkier when a more experienced player takes advantage of less experienced player's knowledge of the rules.  It gets even more murky when the OP's team may encounter a coach less familiar with the rules of golf, or who may not be a golfer, and just doesn't want to admit they do not know....

 

Knowledge is power! I can't say it enough, give EVERYONE on your team a copy of the USGA rules that they keep in their golf bag.  They should never assume the other player, coach or random adult standing nearby knows the rules and has them all memorized! If things ever feel weird or awkward, pull it out!!!  

 

I still have the copy my coach gave me from 1998.  It's out of date, but I still like to have it my bag.  

 

 

 

 

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, ThePutterGirl said:

 

 

Knowledge is power! I can't say it enough, give EVERYONE on your team a copy of the USGA rules that they keep in their golf bag.  They should never assume the other player, coach or random adult standing nearby knows the rules and has them all memorized! If things ever feel weird or awkward, pull it out!!!  

 

 

Have them download the USGA Rules app to their phones.  They're on there 80% of the time anyway.

[tiger1873]

4 hours ago, ThePutterGirl said:

Hate to say it, but this is spot on...

 

At the high school level, there is a lot fo cheating, but it is not all intentional. 

 

Unless the kids have been playing AJGA, it is very unlikely a high school freshman has been playing and keeping score under the "complete" rules of golf if most of their prior golf is casual golf with parents, family and friends.  

 

There are two kinds of cheating in high school golf 

• Intentional cheating 
• Accidental cheating from a player not knowing the ins and outs of the rules 

It gets murkier when a more experienced player takes advantage of less experienced player's knowledge of the rules.  It gets even more murky when the OP's team may encounter a coach less familiar with the rules of golf, or who may not be a golfer, and just doesn't want to admit they do not know....

 

Knowledge is power! I can't say it enough, give EVERYONE on your team a copy of the USGA rules that they keep in their golf bag.  They should never assume the other player, coach or random adult standing nearby knows the rules and has them all memorized! If things ever feel weird or awkward, pull it out!!!  

 

I still have the copy my coach gave me from 1998.  It's out of date, but I still like to have it my bag.  

 

 

 

 

 

Just because a kid plays AJGA doesn't mean they will not cheat. While the vast majority are honest there are cheaters at all levels of golf.  

 

The coach should be teaching the kids on things to watch out for.  The kids should be confirming the scores when finished the hole at the very least.  The more important thing is to encourage them to call officials if they do not know a rule or think there is a problem.  

 

The basic rules of golf is not that hard to follow it is one the first things a kid who is playing needs to learn. If I was a coach I would give them a written test before they were allowed to play. 

 

 

 

 

[tiger1873]

Here is a link from the USGA if anyone needs the basic rules this what every player should know.  

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2019/rules/RulesPoster.pdf

Edited September 9, 2021 by tiger1873

[tsecor]

keep it simple

 

Know the rules.....keep it fun and light for the competitors and let the kids enjoy themselves.....

 

too many wanna bees have 1500 things as a "coach" and they never realize when kids and athletes tune them out.....

 

ive coached 5 sports, won championships in 4 of them and every group of kids tell me the saame thing, year after year......being too serious is not a good thing.... athletes play better when they are relaxed and enjoying their time on the field of play....guide them....do not force them......younger athletes like structure, but do not like to be forced into any structure. Outline how you do things and go from there

[ZAP]

This is my 7th or 8th season of coaching HS golf.  I have lots to add to this but I will wait because as you may have figured out time is pretty tight during the season.  Hope things are going well for you.

[dgarland]

Another question for the group.  We have a home match on Tuesday but Monday the course is going to deep tine the greens.  How do you handle that with rules, etc?  I'm assuming that once on the green you can move the ball, no nearer to the hole, so that you aren't sitting in one of the holes from the aeration.  Other than that, good luck.

 

On a side note:  thank you very much for all of the input, it is greatly appreciated.  

Edited September 12, 2021 by dgarland

[Hawkeye77]

5 hours ago, dgarland said:

Another question for the group.  We have a home match on Tuesday but Monday the course is going to deep tine the greens.  How do you handle that with rules, etc?  I'm assuming that once on the green you can move the ball, no nearer to the hole, so that you aren't sitting in one of the holes from the aeration.  Other than that, good luck.

 

On a side note:  thank you very much for all of the input, it is greatly appreciated.  

Find and read Model Local Rule E-4 in the rules and that is what you would need to have put in place.

[heavy_hitter]

The best HS coaches are motivators.  They need to be able to create a daily practice plan and instill discipline.  Creating Team Chemistry is a must.  I have seen great and poor chemistry on the HS level and Collegiate level.  We have a PGA Professional as our coach and while nice, it certainly isn't needed.  He stays away from swing.  Concentrates on short game and creating team chemistry.  Our old HS coach was a PGA professional and a complete moron.  He was fired for a multitude of reasons and was an excellent swing coach, however, team chemistry with a knowledge of doing what was best for the team was non existent.

 

I don't think this is mentioned, but I would look to see if any of my kids were JGS ranked.  If they are, then you know who your workhorses are and who is committed.  

[dgarland]

Update to the season.  We hosted a match last Thursday and we finished first out of three teams, which is awesome.  Now for the bad news.  Our team is made up of 4 players from my school and 3 from a neighboring district.  The neighboring district has gone online for the next two weeks and they've decided that their kids cannot participate on the golf team during that time.  So that really hurts.  

[Jackal66]

Yes, we had a new golf coach that was going to show some of the players  how to swing.

My Son has played  in AJGA and JRPGA events.

 He proceeded  to 'help' my Son without  my knowledge.

 My Son went from scratch golf, to bogey  golf in around 2 weeks.

Our PGA swing coach was able to undo this damage  in about  5 or 6 lessons.

The coach still thinks he knows more that everyone. 

He said things like "grip pressure doesn't matter".

"Once you get to $25 a dozen all golf balls are the same. It's  an ego thing"

"A launch monitor is just a video game and doesn't  help anyone".

They couldn't  figure out why the team went from 14 players to 3.

Two boys  and one girl.

He started  leaving my Son alone.

 Just coach what  you can, and teach rules & etiquette. 

Every season we have to show kids how to fix ball marks on the green, and some don't  know to hollar "fore" when the ball is going toward someone. 

I've  seen several  people hit in the last 2 years, and carts damaged.

  You can tell the ones that really want to play. 

Make sure all of them  enjoy  it.

[heavy_hitter]

13 hours ago, Jackal66 said:

Yes, we had a new golf coach that was going to show some of the players  how to swing.

My Son has played  in AJGA and JRPGA events.

 He proceeded  to 'help' my Son without  my knowledge.

 My Son went from scratch golf, to bogey  golf in around 2 weeks.

Our PGA swing coach was able to undo this damage  in about  5 or 6 lessons.

The coach still thinks he knows more that everyone. 

He said things like "grip pressure doesn't matter".

"Once you get to $25 a dozen all golf balls are the same. It's  an ego thing"

"A launch monitor is just a video game and doesn't  help anyone".

They couldn't  figure out why the team went from 14 players to 3.

Two boys  and one girl.

He started  leaving my Son alone.

 Just coach what  you can, and teach rules & etiquette. 

Every season we have to show kids how to fix ball marks on the green, and some don't  know to hollar "fore" when the ball is going toward someone. 

I've  seen several  people hit in the last 2 years, and carts damaged.

  You can tell the ones that really want to play. 

Make sure all of them  enjoy  it.

 

Our Coach is a PGA Professional and he doesn't even mess with the kids swings.  Coach sounds like the typical weekend hacker.

[heavy_hitter]

15 hours ago, dgarland said:

Update to the season.  We hosted a match last Thursday and we finished first out of three teams, which is awesome.  Now for the bad news.  Our team is made up of 4 players from my school and 3 from a neighboring district.  The neighboring district has gone online for the next two weeks and they've decided that their kids cannot participate on the golf team during that time.  So that really hurts.  

What did your team shoot in the win?

[ThePutterGirl]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

What did your team shoot in the win?

Yes! Updates please!!! 

 

Also such a bummer that they can't participate!!!

 

Can they still come to the matches to support those who can play? Might good to think about getting the team feelings going with some virtual team stuff if they are not even allowed to come to matches.  

 

For the kids who can't be there make sure they know they are still part of the team! 

 

 

 

 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

22 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Our Coach is a PGA Professional and he doesn't even mess with the kids swings.  Coach sounds like the typical weekend hacker.

Daughters freshman year we avoided optional practice.  The coach is a former student of the school I guess and an average golfer, but loves it.

 

She would have optional practice that involved a family member giving the ladies swing advice.

 

We always opted out.

 

Son's Sophomore and junior year his coach would always throw in swing advice.  He is a PGA Pro, but I swear he went from tearing it up in junior golf to losing his swing.  Not 100% sure it was the coach or just he could see the finish line of a golf season and was ready for a break.

Edited September 21, 2021 by TripleBogeysrbetter

[Jackal66]

7 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Our Coach is a PGA Professional and he doesn't even mess with the kids swings.  Coach sounds like the typical weekend hacker.

He is there are several  kids and parents that can't  stand this guy. He has been a lousy basketball coach for about 20 years. 

 He can't  help the kids at all. He shoots mid 80s to low 90s.

 It's sad that some kids would like to play, but won't because of him.