pls delete

[kerrlybill]

na

Edited November 8, 2021 by kerrlybill
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[Valtiel]

Looks like a typical case of someone not using any kind of shim/protective barrier between the clubhead and the contact points of the loft/lie machine. This can be caused by not properly securing the club as well. I wouldn't call this "damage" since most of it is cosmetic and can be rubbed/cleaned off (black marks/residue etc). The dents on the other hand are obviously a different story, but are still just cosmetic. 

If it were me, I would be a little miffed at the lack of precautions taken and likely not use them again, but i'd probably leave it at that. Irons don't stay pretty long so I try not to sweat that kind of stuff. On the other hand, having to disclose these cosmetic issues if you were to sell the irons is a bit of a pain, so I understand the frustration there. Expressing your dissatisfaction with the tech/company would be fine, just be aware that this kind of thing is pretty common and you'll likely not get much for your efforts unless you have a significant personal or financial relationship with the parties. What they did was sloppy and somewhat unprofessional, but not really enough to be able to claim any sort of damages IMO. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Valtiel

[rsballer10]

16 minutes ago, kerrlybill said:

Hello,

 

I brought my irons in to my course, and had them check lofts, and adjust the lie angles.  I went to pick them up yesterday after I left the office, but the club builder and GM had left for the day.  

 

I immediately noticed the significant dents near each number.  I notified the employee working the proshop and he said he would get the builder to reach out to me.  Once I got home, I noticed far more damage.  I have provided a link below where you can view pictures of each iron.  Some pictures don't fully capture the extent of the damage but you should be able to get a good idea.  

 

For your information, the irons have about 10ish rounds on them and were 9.9 out of 10 when I dropped them off this weekend.  They are in an Ogio Chamber bag to reduce chatter and are meticulously cleaned between shots.  

 

Please tell me that I am not being unreasonable for this being a very unreasonable amount of damage from being adjusted.  If could share your thoughts on why you think this happened as well, that would be appreciated.  I would like to be armed with information when I go to get this settled.

 

Thank you

 

PICS BELOW

https://imgur.com/a/dVqtnaM

 

Some of the dings and dents are very concerning IMO. My first reaction when reading was there was going to be small knicks on the hosel where they were bent, which shouldn't happen but could happen with a cheap bending bar.

 

Seeing big dents like that means that the builder screwed up big time. They look like pressure points where the machine clamps to the iron. Possibilities:

-Clamps on the machine are old and worn, digging into the iron instead of clamping.

-The bending machine was over tightented.

-The clubs were put into the machine improperly.

 

All in all, I would say you have every right to be annoyed and I would pursue the issue to the fullest extent. The only acceptable "damage" during bending would be very small marks on the hosel, and even that can be avoided if the club builder has a decent amount of skill.

 

I bend my own irons with a 30 year old scotland machine and a $45 dollar bar. I just tape around the hosel before I bend. I have never had this happen to a golf club.

[cadoipi]

Agree with @Valtiel take on it.  Except for the dents by the number on the 7-9 (which are quite aggravating), everything else would eventually happen or you should be able to buff them out.

 

Realistically the best you should expect is an apology, a refund of what you paid to have them bent, and MAYBE a discount on a future purchase.  Seeking further compensation, such as a new set of irons or a cash payment to offset the effect on the market value of your irons would in my opinion be unreasonable.

Edited July 27, 2021 by cadoipi

[kerrlybill]

6 minutes ago, cadoipi said:

a cash payment to offset the effect on the market value of your irons would in my opinion be unreasonable.

Why would this be unreasonable?  This is a real cost to me and seems totally reasonable.  

 

If you hired a detailer and the pad slipped of his buffing machine leaving a giant scratch down the hood of your car, how would you want that rectified?  It's only cosmetic but I bet a refund wouldn't be a sufficient remedy for you.  

[MakersMarsh3]

Unfortunately, this is what happens far too often....

 

A lot of people and places don't care, and don't use any sort of tape or protection

I usually only have someone that I trust do the work, or do mine myself

Because different levels of care and expectation

 

How specific were you when you talked to them?

Do you have prior experience at this shop?

 

[kerrlybill]

2 minutes ago, MakersMarsh3 said:

Unfortunately, this is what happens far too often....

 

A lot of people and places don't care, and don't use any sort of tape or protection

I usually only have someone that I trust do the work, or do mine myself

Because different levels of care and expectation

 

How specific were you when you talked to them?

Do you have prior experience at this shop?

 

 

I had a detailed spread sheet printed out of stock lofts, lofts after blending for the combo set, stock lie angles and what I needed them adjusted to.  There were clear instructions on the spread sheet.  I don't think it needs to be said that I would expect a reasonable amount of care to be applied when working on my clubs.  I honestly wouldn't be that miffed it was just a couple of marks, but these are fairly good size dents and on most of the irons.  

 

This is my home course but I have never had any work done by them.  I was assured by the GM that they could handle my request.  

[Valtiel]

8 minutes ago, kerrlybill said:

Why would this be unreasonable?  This is a real cost to me and seems totally reasonable.  

 

If you hired a detailer and the pad slipped of his buffing machine leaving a giant scratch down the hood of your car, how would you want that rectified?  It's only cosmetic but I bet a refund wouldn't be a sufficient remedy for you.  

If you look at it that way then sure, but the problem is that irons get smashed into the ground as part of their job, so cosmetic wear is not treated like a car, which ideally does not have the same job 😅.

Not defending their negligence, just pointing out that if you expect the same level of cosmetic consideration for your irons that you would something like a car that you're setting yourself up for aggravation. 

[mcounci2]

11 minutes ago, kerrlybill said:

Why would this be unreasonable?  This is a real cost to me and seems totally reasonable.  

 

If you hired a detailer and the pad slipped of his buffing machine leaving a giant scratch down the hood of your car, how would you want that rectified?  It's only cosmetic but I bet a refund wouldn't be a sufficient remedy for you.  

The difference here is that a car detailer is being paid to make your car cosmetically better, while bending an iron is a totally functional activity.  The functionality of your irons has not been affected, although the bender didn't, in my opinion, do a very good job.  I think this one, unfortunately, is a learning/research experience for you more than anything.  We've all been there, doesn't mean it sucks any less.  Sorry man!  Just chalk it up to Mizuno softness!

[llewol007]

The damage to the clubs are consistent with not properly protecting the clubs during the lie adjustment. I would say the pro shop has some explaining to do as I dont think the person doing the work was not properly trained.

[kerrlybill]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

If you look at it that way then sure, but the problem is that irons get smashed into the ground as part of their job, so cosmetic wear is not treated like a car, which ideally does not have the same job 😅.

Not defending their negligence, just pointing out that if you expect the same level of cosmetic consideration for your irons that you would something like a car that you're setting yourself up for aggravation. 

 

I agree with that argument partially.  Some people are okay with their possessions deteriorating at any speed as they are a tool.  Others do everything they can to take care of their possessions and keep them as pristine as possible.  I fall in to that category.  

[MakersMarsh3]

1 minute ago, kerrlybill said:

 

I had a detailed spread sheet printed out of stock lofts, lofts after blending for the combo set, stock lie angles and what I needed them adjusted to.  There were clear instructions on the spread sheet.  I don't think it needs to be said that I would expect a reasonable amount of care to be applied when working on my clubs.  I honestly wouldn't be that miffed it was just a couple of marks, but these are fairly good size dents and on most of the irons.  

 

This is my home course but I have never had any work done by them.  I was assured by the GM that they could handle my request.  

Ehhh sorry to hear its your home track

 

I don't assume anything in clubmaking man, they probably gave this to the intern and whoever did it thinks everything is fine.

I've seen this far too many times, especially with some soft forged sticks like yours

I usually am very specific about protecting a club, and give a clubmaker a wedge or something to try first. I've even taped clubs before giving them to guys

 

I would expect to not be charged, but anything more is gonna be tough

It sucks, I agree 100% but if it matters that much to you then I would recommend being more specific and finding a shop you really trust.

 

Unfortunately this would happen at a lot of shops....

[Break68]

I would be livid, I am very OCD about my clubs. I would talk to the GM. To me that is unacceptable to leave dents on the heads. Brutal.

[MakersMarsh3]

A lot of this comes down to the level of expectation

 

[Valtiel]

1 minute ago, kerrlybill said:

 

I agree with that argument partially.  Some people are okay with their possessions deteriorating at any speed as they are a tool.  Others do everything they can to take care of their possessions and keep them as pristine as possible.  I fall in to that category.  

That is perfectly fair. At that point though you either start cultivating a close relationship with a tech or learn to do these things on your own, because the goal of keeping things as neat and pristine as possible will always conflict with having the general public do work for you. 

[kerrlybill]

4 minutes ago, MakersMarsh3 said:

A lot of this comes down to the level of expectation

 

I expect a decent effort and amount of care put in to one's work as I would do for others.  I am not holding people to god-tier expectations, but the head builder at a club should be able to provide better results than this.  

[kerrlybill]

2 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

That is perfectly fair. At that point though you either start cultivating a close relationship with a tech or learn to do these things on your own, because the goal of keeping things as neat and pristine as possible will always conflict with having the general public do work for you. 

I couldn't agree with you more.  I do a lot of things for myself that could easily be hired out.  Once I have a bit more space, I will be getting a club building set up in my garage.  

[JeffreySpicoli]

1 minute ago, kerrlybill said:

I am not holding people to god-tier expectations, but the head builder at a club should be able to provide better results than this.  

Unfortunately that is not a realistic expectation.

[Phabs]

The markings on the face and the sole by the numbers is extemely common as stated above.   Every set of mizunos I’ve had adjusted come back with similar marks, just part of the process. 
 

The nicks on the backs of the heads I’d be pissed about. Have to remind myself these are tools not jewels sometimes.  

Edited July 27, 2021 by Phabs

[Krt22]

A bit sloppy, but they are tools not jewels. Some of the damage seems avoidable, some of the indents on the sole are a bit harder to prevent. When you are bending a softer metal inside a harder metal, some physical marring can happen. You may be able to recover the cost of the labor itself, but I don't see how anything more than that will be accommodated. 

[cadoipi]

30 minutes ago, kerrlybill said:

Why would this be unreasonable?  This is a real cost to me and seems totally reasonable.  

 

If you hired a detailer and the pad slipped of his buffing machine leaving a giant scratch down the hood of your car, how would you want that rectified?  It's only cosmetic but I bet a refund wouldn't be a sufficient remedy for you.  

 

In your car example, the detailer would be able to fix the mistake themselves with their own tools and that would be my expectation.  That is not possible here.

 

I understand that you are upset, but what dollar level of compensation would make you whole?

Edited July 27, 2021 by cadoipi

[kerrlybill]

16 minutes ago, cadoipi said:

 

In your car example, the retailer would be able to fix the mistake themselves with their own tools and that would be my expectation.  That is not possible here.

 

I understand that you are upset, but what dollar level of compensation would make you whole?

And if they couldn't fix it, they would be responsible to find someone who could, or replace the damaged item.  

 

I don't know that I have a set amount to feel whole.  It's not really about the money.  I think a fair option would be for them to order me identical clubs through their account.  Once they arrive, they can take this banged up set to sell and recoup some or all of the cost to them.  I know what the wholesale cost is for this set as my fitter showed me.  They should be able to get close to that, possibly more.  It may not cost them a dime, but it leaves me happy and they made an effort to take care of a long time customer.  

 

I have sent off an email to the club now thanks to a lot of help from the comments on here.  I will wait to see how they respond.  

Edited July 27, 2021 by kerrlybill

[Krt22]

14 minutes ago, kerrlybill said:

And if they couldn't fix it, they would be responsible to find someone who could, or replace the damaged item.  

 

I don't know that I have a set amount to feel whole.  It's not really about the money.  I think a fair option would be for them to order me identical clubs through their account.  Once they arrive, they can take this banged up set to sell and recoup some or all of the cost to them.  I know what the wholesale cost is for this set as my fitter showed me.  They should be able to get close to that, possibly more.  It may not cost them a dime, but it leaves me happy and they made an effort to take care of a long time customer.  

 

I have sent off an email to the club now thanks to a lot of help from the comments on here.  I will wait to see how they respond.  

I would prepare to be disappointed. 

[cadoipi]

5 minutes ago, kerrlybill said:

And if they couldn't fix it, they would be responsible to find someone who could, or replace the damaged item.  

 

I don't know that I have a set amount to feel whole.  It's not really about the money.  I think a fair option would be for them to order me identical clubs through their account.  Once they arrive, they can take this banged up set to sell and recoup some or all of the cost to them.  I know what the wholesale cost is for this set as my fitter showed me.  They should be able to get close to that if not more.  It may not cost them a dime, but it leaves me happy and they made an effort to take care of a long time customer.  

 

I have sent off an email to the club now thanks to a lot of help from the comments on here.  I will wait to see how they respond.  

 

Selling you a new set at wholesale is reasonable.  Unless you are spending $500+ a year on clubs with them or this is an exclusive private club, I will be shocked if they agree to hold the bag on selling the old set.  But hey doesn't hurt to ask.

[Krt22]

6 minutes ago, cadoipi said:

 

Selling you a new set at wholesale is reasonable.  Unless you are spending $500+ a year on clubs with them or this is an exclusive private club, I will be shocked if they agree to hold the bag on selling the old set.  But hey doesn't hurt to ask.

He is not asking for them to sell at set at wholesale, he is asking for a brand new replacement set at zero cost to him.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Krt22
cl

[cadoipi]

14 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

He is not asking for them to sell at set at wholesale, he is asking for a brand new replacement set at zero cost to him.

 

His proposal can be viewed as them selling at wholesale and him paying with his old clubs instead of cash.  I doubt they accept this, but selling at wholesale for straight cash is a reasonable request they should accommodate.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by cadoipi

[dlygrisse]

It's sloppy work.  Does it hinder the playing condition?  no, but it's annoying and does lessen the resale value if that is a concern.  I am not one to get overly wound up by a small nick on an iron or wedge, but they should do something to make it right.  A shop credit for a bit of money would be appropriate.  

[MountainKing]

Sadly this happens when bending, sometimes even if you take all precautions you can still end up with marks, or with cast clubs a broken club.  Most places I've seen that bend will or should tell you that you assume all the risks that come with it.  The best you could probably get is your money back.  I know it's of little help to your situation, but generally anytime I have this work done I take it to a place where I can wait and watch them do the work and I know they won't pass it off to somebody who doesn't have a lot of experience.

[animalgolfs]

Did you ask beforehand about any possible cosmetic blemishes,  that might occur? I see you read about the process....Did you buy chance ask the club person about your concerns? 

[scooterhd2]

1. get your money back for the adjustment. 

2. have them sell you a set at wholesale, factory adjusted to your specs.
3. sell your beat up set on ebay and try to break even out of it all.