Rabbit holes and the curse of the better player

[Barfolomew]

The better the player you are the more likely you can be successful using different styles.  I enjoy experimenting and often find many different things work.  Sometimes the lines get blurred between styles and you end up with a hodgepodge cocktail with rabbit holes running into each other.  I'll take a piece of this and a piece of that lol...

 

Anyone notice the better they get the more choices they have and end up down them rabbit holes more then when they weren't as good?

 

I'm not complaining, maybe even the opposite, as I love the complexity of golf as it keeps us entertained for decades...

[lefthack]

This is how I ended up going through 5 sets of irons in about 8 months. There is still one set on the way and another by end of year or early next. Trying stuff is fun and as my game has improved, even more so. But it's getting expensive. 🤣

[Barfolomew]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:00 PM, lefthack said:

This is how I ended up going through 5 sets of irons in about 8 months. There is still one set on the way and another by end of year or early next. Trying stuff is fun and as my game has improved, even more so. But it's getting expensive. 🤣

sounds fun lol... are you able to sell em so you dont lose too much?

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I would say I tinker too much, or have in the past. But technique wise I try to stick to very conventional methods. 

[Kmagnuss]

I'm constantly changing my swing up.  I'll change... hcp goes up... starts to come back down lower than it was... then I'll find something I "need" to change.  Hcp goes up for awhile... rinse and repeat. 

 

I was consistently scoring in the high 70's with 20-something rounds in a row under 85... then I switched up my backswing (a lot), and now I couldn't break 90 if you paid me. 

 

So yes... I feel your pain but it's a fun ride.

[lefthack]

3 hours ago, Barfolomew said:

sounds fun lol... are you able to sell em so you dont lose too much?

 

I've either broke even or made a buck on all but the KZG's, but they are olde and lesser known so I knew I would lose some.

 

It's been fun for sure and that's why I'm still not done. I figure I will have 2-3 sets of different types to play as I feel. 

[Barfolomew]

2 hours ago, Kmagnuss said:

I'm constantly changing my swing up.  I'll change... hcp goes up... starts to come back down lower than it was... then I'll find something I "need" to change.  Hcp goes up for awhile... rinse and repeat. 

 

I was consistently scoring in the high 70's with 20-something rounds in a row under 85... then I switched up my backswing (a lot), and now I couldn't break 90 if you paid me. 

 

So yes... I feel your pain but it's a fun ride.

 

The old roller coaster ride lol....

[Ferguson]

Interesting topic.  I am the opposite.  I remove the complexity by sticking with what works and playing from my strengths. 

It's funny how many holes I play from the same spots week after week. 

 

 

Curious, what is the crowning achievement or capstone with all the tinkering?    

[TexasRig]

I have been a person that tinkers with everything, swing and clubs included.  I'm currently a 9 hcp lowest ever and I believe it is 100% because I am able to play and practice more and has nothing to do with the tinkering.  So as I'm getting better I'm trying to force myself to stops making changes.  I'm selling all my extra clubs and putters and have settled on one set.  I've stopped watching youtube swing tips and am really just trying to improve with the clubs and the swing that I have.   I love buying shiny new clubs and will miss that but I also really enjoy the process of getting better so I'm excited for the change.  

Edited October 7, 2021 by TexasRig

[dropkicked]

I like buying gear, it's the "ho" in me... but I don't change out my gamers unless forced too. I don't change my move/turn/swing.... I try to keep it all grooved in with my "feels" so that I am not left scrambling on the track when it matters.

[gripandrip]

My curse with getting better... the expectation that it continues, that you will always play at your best level. For me this turned into too much focus on scoring and forgetting why I play and how to enjoy the game. Less than expected rounds were miserable.

 

When I got my focus back, my scores were consistently better. Back to enjoying the company of the people I'm with, the opportunity to spend time in the outdoors (I love to walk when I play), and just the enjoyment of striking the ball.

 

Like Ferguson... I don't tinker too much. It's rare I change a club that is working (Still playing a R9 3 wood). I've made some big swing changes in the past to remove flaws, and now it's just preventing falling back into bad habits.

[dbleag]

20 hours ago, Ferguson said:

Interesting topic.  I am the opposite.  I remove the complexity by sticking with what works and playing from my strengths. 

It's funny how many holes I play from the same spots week after week. 

 

 

Curious, what is the crowning achievement or capstone with all the tinkering?    

I recently played golf with a former psychologist, age 75.  He was a decent player (5 handi) who started to have several bad holes in the latter half of his rounds that shook his confidence and ruined his rounds.

 

I mentioned that he appeared to be losing focus.  He said that there is a psychological syndrome where just changing your routine or something small can rejuvenate your focus.  

 

For me, my golf focus seems to be helped by a new/different club or swing thought.  

 

I only wish that the new, improved focus lasted longer.  😞 

[Ferguson]

1 minute ago, dbleag said:

I recently played golf with a former psychologist, age 75.  He was a decent player (5 handi) who started to have several bad holes in the latter half of his rounds that shook his confidence and ruined his rounds.

 

I mentioned that he appeared to be losing focus.  He said that there is a psychological syndrome where just changing your routine or something small can rejuvenate your focus.  

 

For me, my golf focus seems to be helped by a new/different club or swing thought.  

 

I only wish that the new, improved focus lasted longer.  😞 

 

How did you determine he was losing focus?  

Was he wandering around the woods between shots?  

 

 

 

[Fairway14]

On 10/1/2021 at 1:33 PM, Barfolomew said:

The better the player you are the more likely you can be successful using different styles.  I enjoy experimenting and often find many different things work.  Sometimes the lines get blurred between styles and you end up with a hodgepodge cocktail with rabbit holes running into each other.  I'll take a piece of this and a piece of that lol...

 

Anyone notice the better they get the more choices they have and end up down them rabbit holes more then when they weren't as good?

 

I'm not complaining, maybe even the opposite, as I love the complexity of golf as it keeps us entertained for decades...

 

I don't know how most people define "better player" but the  0 or plus handicap players I know typically stick the with same bag of clubs for years.

Same is true for swing technique, rarely looking to make changes. I think an honest zero or plus handicap is focused on playing shots, playing for score whereas higher handicap players are sometimes prone to playing equipment or playing swing.

[Barfolomew]

I guess the curse I'm referring to is that a better player CAN use an experimental technique and have success VS the newer player that struggles with any lol

 

So when a lower handi changes their grip it works, changes stance, open stance or more closed, move the ball around.  So now you have to decide on just one when many work lol

 

 

I'll mess around on the practice green and show the guys technique isnt important specially with putting and just use whatever is comfortable.  I'll face the opposite way or stand on 1 leg and make decent putts.... or putt with a driver or close my eyes or do whatever like 1 handed.... easier to do with putting lol... so when you're serious and make tiny changes they obviously work very well compared to your normal technique, so now pick lol

[bobfoster]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:00 PM, lefthack said:

This is how I ended up going through 5 sets of irons in about 8 months. There is still one set on the way and another by end of year or early next. Trying stuff is fun and as my game has improved, even more so. But it's getting expensive. 🤣

 

Seven full sets of irons in a year? You have a serious problem! But I think this puts you in the WRX Hall of Fame (if there is one - if not, there should be). 😂

[Ferguson]

17 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

Seven full sets of irons in a year? You have a serious problem! But I think this puts you in the WRX Hall of Fame (if there is one - if not, there should be). 😂

 

That's a good question. 

 

The math is not working for me.  Let's look at 7 sets of irons to include "TYPICAL" covid lead-times, shipping, fitting and trial period.

 

Fitting - 1 day

Order processing and transit time (covid)- 45 days

Trial period - 14 days

 

7 sets @ 60 days each =  420 days

Calendar year: 365 days

 

 

 

 

[lefthack]

7 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

That's a good question. 

 

The math is not working for me.  Let's look at 7 sets of irons to include "TYPICAL" covid lead-times, shipping, fitting and trial period.

 

Fitting - 1 day

Order processing and transit time (covid)- 45 days

Trial period - 14 days

 

7 sets @ 60 days each =  420 days

Calendar year: 365 days

 

 

 

 

 

First off, I would not know where to go for a fitting for all but 1 set of the irons I have purchased (can you even get fit for Nike irons anywhere?). Second, I have not been fitted yet, but will likely get fitted eventually if I find a fitter with lefty stuff.

 

But the Takomo irons are still at least a month out and Haywood might not have lefty MB's until next year. So 6 sets are FOR SURE. 🤣

 

And I have sold all but my KZG blades and my BGD sc's.

 

[Kmagnuss]

7 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

That's a good question. 

 

The math is not working for me.  Let's look at 7 sets of irons to include "TYPICAL" covid lead-times, shipping, fitting and trial period.

 

Fitting - 1 day

Order processing and transit time (covid)- 45 days

Trial period - 14 days

 

7 sets @ 60 days each =  420 days

Calendar year: 365 days

 

 

 

 

He probably buys used clubs (like me).  I've gone through 6 sets of irons in just over a year.

 

-Mag

Edited October 8, 2021 by Kmagnuss

[lefthack]

44 minutes ago, Kmagnuss said:

He probably buys used clubs (like me).  I've gone through 6 sets of irons in just over a year.

 

-Mag

 

The last 2 sets have been new, but also wicked cheap ($425 for BGD, $300 for Takomos). 

[Ferguson]

1 hour ago, Kmagnuss said:

He probably buys used clubs (like me).  I've gone through 6 sets of irons in just over a year.

 

-Mag

 

Puzzled.  Are you club collectors? 

[lefthack]

17 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

Puzzled.  Are you club collectors? 

 

I went from my '96 Ping Zing 2 irons that I bought new to a set of Nike Vapor Pro Combos last summer. Then everybody here kept saying "the VR Pro Combos are way better", so I bought those, sold the Vapors. Then found a KZG CB set for a steal and some blade heads, so I built a KZG combo set because why not. Loved the blades so much, I ditched the CB's and was full blade.

 

Then Nick Byrd hit me up on Facebook and said "I'm building 15 sets of lefties, you still down?" I said "hell yes!" and sold the CB's. Then Takomo sent me an email and said "our lefties are now available..." Then Haywood came out with the MB and said lefties would be end of year or early next.

 

So what was I supposed to do? 

 

<edit> if I get the Haywood's I will sell my KZG's. But 3 very different sets of irons is something I can justify having. Especially when all 3 sets cost less than one set of a major OEM.

Edited October 8, 2021 by lefthack

[ShowMe]

I don't think it's the "better golfer," per se.  I think it's the golfer who knows more about the swing.  Although, there's probably a correlation between the two.

[Myherobobhope]

On 10/1/2021 at 4:33 PM, Barfolomew said:

The better the player you are the more likely you can be successful using different styles.  I enjoy experimenting and often find many different things work.  Sometimes the lines get blurred between styles and you end up with a hodgepodge cocktail with rabbit holes running into each other.  I'll take a piece of this and a piece of that lol...

 

Anyone notice the better they get the more choices they have and end up down them rabbit holes more then when they weren't as good?

 

I'm not complaining, maybe even the opposite, as I love the complexity of golf as it keeps us entertained for decades...

I think this is an interesting topic…

 

To a certain extent, I think the basic premise is an interesting one “talented physical golfers can more easily make radical changes and have their game still work”. I think that’s 100% true, but I think anyone who is physically gifted like that will quickly find and stick to what works best for them…

 

I guess another way to read it is “golfers who actively improve their game seek new techniques to build new, hopefully useful, skills”. This is where I am at. I put myself to sleep at night contemplating how to play different holes on my course. I’ve switched to heads up putting, after spending a year improving my regular putting. I’m always thinking about what I want to improve and how to do it… I’ve been learning to hit an in to out wedge shot off the toe because it helps generate a ton of spin… impact feels awful and I haven’t taken it to the course yet… numbers look good on the simulator though!

I think the challenge here is working on stuff that is both actionable and useful. Things you can practice and things you can bring to the course. I spent 3 months learning to hit the sieckmann finesse wedge shot… I never hit it on the course! Just couldn’t get confident with it.

 

the last interpretation is where this thread went… trying new things = buying different equipment… I think that’s part of the 2nd point, but once you find the gear that works, you hopefully stop!

[Kmagnuss]

On 10/8/2021 at 4:36 PM, Ferguson said:

 

Puzzled.  Are you club collectors? 

No but I like to try out as much as I can.  Technology is so different than it was over 20 years ago when I stopped playing that I wanted to try all the new types of clubs (new to me).

Cavity back, older muscleback blade, newer muscleback blade, split cavity blade, hollow body forged, game improvement... there will be more to come.

 

I'm the same way with cars... it's very rare for me to keep a car more than a year and as such I've had 35 cars in 28 years of driving.  I wouldn't say I'm a collector, because I use the heck out of all of them... more of an enthusiast.

 

-Mag

[MountainKing]

Always looking to improve my swing, but it's generally small things at a time, and I try to stick with one perspective/instructor on things.  Last thing I ever want to do is setup to a golf ball with 10 different swing thoughts from different places that really are just different ways to accomplish the same thing.   I always try to look at the better players that I play with and see how they do things, and follow their lead.   They rarely change out equipment (I did change out most of my big this year after almost a decade), they rarely are working on more than one small thing/one feel in their swing at any given time, and they're constantly practicing their short game and wedges.

[Jtgavigan]

On 10/7/2021 at 12:26 PM, Fairway14 said:

 

I don't know how most people define "better player" but the  0 or plus handicap players I know typically stick the with same bag of clubs for years.

Same is true for swing technique, rarely looking to make changes. I think an honest zero or plus handicap is focused on playing shots, playing for score whereas higher handicap players are sometimes prone to playing equipment or playing swing.

 

I am scratch and play with several people in my ability range and better. Probably the best player I know, I have played with since maybe June. 

 

He has:

1. Reshafted an older driver (G400) at least once.

2. Changed to a TSI3 driver

3. Reshafted/changed out his irons

4. Played at least 5 or 6 putters. 

 

Don't think I have ever seen him shoot over 71. He just shot 32 from the back tees on the front 9 at a 7,000 yard course and lipped out 2 short putts Wednesday. 

 

Another plus cap hasn't changed out squat in the same time frame,  but is thinking if changing his driver. 

 

Another guy who is scratch hasnt changed anything. 

 

Me:

1. Two new 3 woods, with several different shafts

2. New driving iron shafts

3. New driver (2017 M2 to SIM) and different shafts/lengths. I have changed weights/settings a lot.

4. Swapped iron shafts

 

Some people like to tinker and others don't. I build my own stuff. So, part of my enjoyment is playing around with new equipment and configurations. Sometimes, I am struggling with a certain part of the game and want to see if equipment can help. It happens at all levels. 

[otto6457]

I try very hard to keep my golf IQ low when it comes to MY swing.  I don't tinker.  I try to have only one voice in my head and when things don't work, I go see my coach or I send him video.  He tells me to do "X" or stop doing "Y".  I do what he tells me...I hit the ball good again.

 

KISS  (keep it simple stupid)

 

BTW, my irons are from 2003.  My fairway woods are from 1999.  And my driver is a 2010 model.  It ain't the arrows, it's the Indian.

 

I believe it was Raymond Floyd that said the person you don't want to play in a money game is a guy with old clubs and new grips

Edited October 10, 2021 by otto6457

[Ferguson]

It's the complete antithesis of what I did in 2021.  In January, I put the following to task: 

 

1. No new clubs

2. No practice

3. Same brand of ball for every single round

4. Added relaxation breathing before shots and putts

5. Simple stretching before playing

6. Left the flag in for all putts

 

HC dropped from 7.1 to 6.0 

I scored no higher than 79 in 77% of my rounds 

 

I wasn't trying to improve, just get more consistent week-to-week.

The result has been improvement.  Strange game.

[Barfolomew]

7 hours ago, Ferguson said:

It's the complete antithesis of what I did in 2021.  In January, I put the following to task: 

 

1. No new clubs

2. No practice

3. Same brand of ball for every single round

4. Added relaxation breathing before shots and putts

5. Simple stretching before playing

6. Left the flag in for all putts

 

HC dropped from 7.1 to 6.0 

I scored no higher than 79 in 77% of my rounds 

 

I wasn't trying to improve, just get more consistent week-to-week.

The result has been improvement.  Strange game.

 

Impressive.... Are you a pedantic Scotsman