Correct my rant: double bagging caddies sucks, not fancy, worse than no caddie

[hammergolf]

3 hours ago, ND2005 said:

 

Nope, like I said caddie master brought us a pull cart and apologized but that was it. 

 

 

Man that’s terrible. We had a similar incident on our trip at Lahinch. They didn’t have the caddies I had requested for our group on our first round. Ended up giving us a forecaddie for the group that actually worked out ok. However on our second round I had the grumpiest old man on the bag. Probably didn’t say 10 words the entire round other than giving me a yardage and read. Miraculously EVERY yardage I had that day ended a 5…. I guess he got tired or mad after 8 holes when he gave me a bad read and I went back and putted it again and it definitely went the other way. From that point on he didn’t even read any other putts and would give me the putter as we were approaching the green and he would go to the next tee and wait. As if this wasn’t bad enough, they gave us a guy who had no clue about caddying for another player in the group. He was standing in people line when they putted. And was standing on the green directly in my line as I was waiting to play for over a minute before another caddie told him to get out the way. After the round, as I went to pay him, I was still going to give him a small tip but he said he had no change and rather than him going into the caddie shack and asking, I had to walk over to the pro shop to get change. At that point I decided to not give him a tip at all, something I had never done before. I intentionally handed the money so he could see there was no tip included, he didn’t mention a word and took the money and was on his way…. The Caddiemaster, who I gave to say was great over our two rounds at Lahinch, apologized profusely and I could see him going back into the Caddie Shack and having a very loud and spirited conversation with him as I was waiting on our other group to finish. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by hammergolf

[Golferpaul]

On 6/19/2022 at 4:31 PM, memberguest said:

I realize caddies make more by double bagging. I would rather pay more a single bag caddie or not use caddies at all. 

 

Caddies double bagging is annoying, low end and makes the round less enjoyable. 

 

What am I missing? Is this is any way a good thing? Please give me a heads up before I go politely complain. 

You are correct.  Double bagging also slows pace of play.

[Roody]

Having done both, I 100% agree that the experience is better for the player if you have a single-bag caddie. However, I've had some good experiences with a double-bagger as well. 

 

One comment that stood out for me from Willy at Kiawah (who double-bagged for a buddy and I). I asked him if he preferred single or double, and he said he preferred double because "carrying two bags is easier on my back, can keep my shoulders level more easily". 

[So_Cal]

Double bagging definitely is worse than no caddies at all.  At Streamsong our double bagging playing partners caused nearly a 5 hour round.  If everyone had their own push cart it would have been 4:15. 

[ChipDriver]

With respect - wth are you guys expecting a caddie to do?   I would guess that most of these posts are "one-offs" where your caddie and you have never met before?  That's not fair IMO and IMO NO caddie will live up to that expectation.  If the first outing is good - it's the NEXT and future outings together that will help you score better - and enjoy each other more.

 

If new - IMO a "good caddie" is one that simply can keep up...but also  1) find the ball; 2) give you accurate distances to the pin; 3) read the greens.  Anything more like local knowledge or greens or strategy) is a bonus.  But I'd guess that 99.9% of the time - most people can't execute the necessary shots - and that inability is a direct impact on score.  And score determines likability or "good"ness.  🙂 Can't blame a caddie for that.  🙂  And a good caddie can do that on a single bag or a double, or even as a forecaddie.  If you're lucky you can get a guy who's a decent player, whose played the course, and has some good jokes.  If the groups are slow - it's due to a caddie's inexperience in logistics; and perhaps combined with a golf course's inability to enforce pace of play.  2 bag caddies can get around in under 4 hours - depending on the quality of the player.  Players tend to dictate pace - and if the caddie is being slow - I agree they are not "good"...but that's a problem at the pro shop.

 

The better caddie experience is if you take the same caddie again - now you get into a rhythm faster and you have more of a relationship - and that will reflect in your scores and your perception of whether a caddie is good or not.  Just my opinion.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by ChipDriver

[Orange Hog]

Going back to the OP, I've never been a fan of caddies that carry two bags.  It has to be uncomfortable as hell for them and is so much work having to chase down balls for two different golfers, give them reads on the green, etc.  If I'm hiring a caddy it's going to be just for me.

[mshills]

On 7/5/2022 at 11:14 AM, Orange Hog said:

Going back to the OP, I've never been a fan of caddies that carry two bags.  It has to be uncomfortable as hell for them and is so much work having to chase down balls for two different golfers, give them reads on the green, etc.  If I'm hiring a caddy it's going to be just for me.

 

Ex caddie here.  Packing double is only occasionally much more physically demanding than carrying single.  Especially if the other caddie is experienced -- even better if the other caddie is experienced and the two caddies are accustomed to working together.

 

For those on this thread blaming slow play on double-bagging caddies, that just can't be true unless a.) the caddies weren't worth a #### or b.) one or both players expect the caddie to be on his hip every step of your round and made the group wait for the consult.  If you're not on tour you don't need that, and I'd argue that most Tour players would be better off without analysis paralysis with the caddie.

[puttnforthe8]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:14 PM, 2bGood said:

 

Never fired a caddie, but I have had a few doozies over the years. One guys was pretty funny. He had been out on a huge all night bender and came straight to meet us for a 7:30am tee time. Somehow he managed to fall asleep several times during the round. Most times standing up, just leaning my bag or the flag stick while tending it. Found him sleeping on a bench when I was leaving the half way house. I could tell he was a good caddie when at his best, but that was an off day for him. No need to fire him though, just found it funny. 

I fired a caddie at Streamsong last year.  He was 'double bag' for two of us, except one of the guys is handicapped and so the caddie drove a cart.  My clubs were loaded on the cart with the other bag.  I was on the putting green waiting to be called.  When they called us to the tee, the caddie took off in the cart and my bag and clubs flew off the card and went all over the path right near the putting green and the 19th hole(par 3).  I was naturally upset and called him out on it for not securing the bag - note I had a couple of clubs banged up pretty good.  This caddie turned around and blamed me and then got in my face and threatened me for calling him out.  Note:  I had never touched my bag once after coming back from the range.

 

I told him to take off (fired), I got hold of the caddie master and explained I wanted someone else, grabbed my bag and walked the first hole and they brought a caddie out on hole 2.  

 

For the particular issue I got no apology from the course, and nothing done about the issue.  Soured me on SS and ruined my day.

 

 

[AC168]

Problem is a lot of caddies don’t really know what they are doing when they have two bags and it may just be too much work and frequently one person gets neglected.  

I personally think caddieing is quite difficult and think it’s hard enough to be a good caddie for one person.  
 

I’m a decent player and have used caddies throughout my life.  I’ve caddied for friends and my Dad in tournaments and it’s much harder than it looks.

 

If I have to share a caddie with a higher handicap, I just grab two or three clubs with my rangefinder after I tee off and assume I’ll see the caddie at the green with my putter and lob wedge.

 

That being said, I have had some fantastic caddies - I once had a caddie who played briefly on the Senior Tour - every read was right, every start line was perfect … said just the right things before each shot.  
 

I do think it helps if the caddie has shot around par at one point in life.

[2bGood]

On 7/5/2022 at 7:44 AM, ChipDriver said:

With respect - wth are you guys expecting a caddie to do?   I would guess that most of these posts are "one-offs" where your caddie and you have never met before?  

 

a "good caddie" is one that simply can keep up...but also  1) find the ball; 2) give you accurate distances to the pin; 3) read the greens.  Anything more like local knowledge or greens or strategy) is a bonus.

 

Reading through this thread, I think most agree with you of what a good caddie is. These are stories of guys damaging clubs, being stumbling drunk, giving wrong distances or not knowing basic golf etiquette. 

 

 

[ChipDriver]

10 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

Reading through this thread, I think most agree with you of what a good caddie is. These are stories of guys damaging clubs, being stumbling drunk, giving wrong distances or not knowing basic golf etiquette. 

 

 

Agreed - undoubtedly these guys had a bad caddie experience....but then try to use that one experience to judge ALL experiences?  I think that's not a good nor fair sample size.  🙂

 

I am lucky to have a choice - and I get to use caddies regularly - I've had the same type of bad experiences with single/double caddies like many here; but those are not the norm IMO.  Overall a good caddie is a good caddie - no matter how many bags they can carry.  Just my experience/opinion.

 

[DandyDon]

My best experience with a caddy was at Bandon about 8 years ago, we each got our own caddy and it was a fantastic experience.  The last two times that I went to Bandon we had one caddy for two of us, I found it an unsatisfying experience.  In fact, I actually declined to have a caddy for the final day (it was funny to have him still working in the foursome that day though).  

 

Fast forward to this last trip to Streamsong where you are required to at least have a forecaddy.  We had one guy for the four of us, I thought he did a freaking amazing job, better than any double bagger that we have ever  had....

[StudentGolfer4]

11 hours ago, DandyDon said:

My best experience with a caddy was at Bandon about 8 years ago, we each got our own caddy and it was a fantastic experience.  The last two times that I went to Bandon we had one caddy for two of us, I found it an unsatisfying experience.  In fact, I actually declined to have a caddy for the final day (it was funny to have him still working in the foursome that day though).  

 

Fast forward to this last trip to Streamsong where you are required to at least have a forecaddy.  We had one guy for the four of us, I thought he did a freaking amazing job, better than any double bagger that we have ever  had....

I’m guessing you had a forecaddie at streamsong? A good forecaddie can handle a group really well but they have to be willing to hustle. Where I’m at a forecaddie is required if it’s more than a 1-1 member to guest ratio and alot of guest groups take carts. To do a good job you have to get out ahead of them off the box and beat them to the green/after their approaches. It’s not a sprint but it’s definitely a jog about once per hole or so. By the time guys get to the fairway a good forecaddie will already have yardages and lines and then marks fixed, balls cleaned, and putts read when you get to the green. It all goes back to what you expect of a caddie. If you want putts read and distances a forecaddie is perfect. If you want someone to carry the bag it’s worthless. 
 

If you ever have a forecaddie in a group of walkers we call that “east street.” It almost completely eliminates the need for anything beyond a brisk walk. 

[robdalky]

I agree with this sentiment and generally will avoid a double bag situation but TBH I think that the fix for this is that single bag fees should be more expensive in general. For the experience, I think double bag fees are too high and single too low. If it was twice the cost of a double bag, I think this would sort itself out.

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, robdalky said:

I agree with this sentiment and generally will avoid a double bag situation but TBH I think that the fix for this is that single bag fees should be more expensive in general. For the experience, I think double bag fees are too high and single too low. If it was twice the cost of a double bag, I think this would sort itself out.

 

So you're saying if a double bag were $100 per golfer then the single bag would be $100 for the single golfer?

[againstthegrain]

Only had caddies, mostly double bagged, at my home club so I generally knew what I needed and was in play the vast majority of the time.  I prefer the caddie to be with the other golfer across the fairway so I could think and execute w out the added stress of people on top of me.  The only real bad experience I had was a caddie carrying my bag and his father's (against the club rules.)  He acted like he was out on a walk w his father and he was a very smart college kid so he knew exactly what he was doing.

 

The comment above about having 2 double bagged caddies for a 4some working together was exactly correct.  They can do a very good job, helping the 4some move expeditiously.

[StudentGolfer4]

3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

So you're saying if a double bag were $100 per golfer then the single bag would be $100 for the single golfer?

I think it goes the other way. He wants a single bag to be $200 and a double to be $100 per man. 

[charli]

On 6/19/2022 at 9:32 PM, stevopagolf said:

A good caddie is good if he or she is carrying 3 bags.  I have had too many enjoyable rounds with a caddy doing two bags to complain.  Most expect splatter shots.  Do your best to make it easier.

 

First world problem 

 

Looking forward to my next double bag caddie round at Philly Cricket.

I had one of my worst caddy experiences at cricket 

[stevopagolf]

8 hours ago, charli said:

I had one of my worst caddy experiences at cricket 

Sorry to hear that.  I've had great experience each of the last 5 years.  Been worth an extra birdie!

 

Better luck next chance!

[charli]

5 hours ago, stevopagolf said:

Sorry to hear that.  I've had great experience each of the last 5 years.  Been worth an extra birdie!

 

Better luck next chance!

Yeah I think he hated my partner. 

[ChipNRun]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:25 AM, rooski said:

Double bagging is effectively just hiring a human mule to sprint around and not be able to pay much personal attention to either person's golf game, and it costs you exactly the same as being one half of a double bag, never made much sense to me.

 

I did most of my caddying back in the previous century, when fairway woods actually had persimmon heads. I started in late 1960s; riding carts had started penetrating the mid-level clubs about 1960.

 

Lived in St. Louis area. Got my start at Algonquin GC, a club that had a formal caddie training program. AGC was surrounded completely by middle-class homes, so the course got more caddies than it could actually use. The surplus caddies often moved to other clubs.

 

I moved to Old Warson CC in high school, a dollar or two more per bag. It was a long tournament course, so the faint-hearted caddies stayed away.

 

The training was essential. This meant the caddies knew what to do, and the players knew how to work with the caddies. Also, if it was a golf foursome, the two caddies would work as a team. "You take (the flag) and I'll rake (the bunkers)" was arranged on a hole-by-hole basis. The "rake" caddie would then leave drivers on the tee box for his players while he went up ahead to the landing area on the next hole.

 

Both the caddies and the four golfers worked together as a team throughout the round. Ideal situation for pleasant round was older double caddie and two junior single caddies.

 

Can't remember exact dates, but by early 1970 more than half of players took carts. A foursome on carts had a cart runner, who went ahead to spot tee shots, and put a marker stake by shots in the rough (pre-driveway markers... these stakes were half a broom handle, painted yellow, with a long finishing nail driven into the end.)

 

The toughest assignment was two players in a cart, and two players walking. The caddie would walk down the center of the fairway, and the players would come over and get the club they needed.

 

One issue: I suspect that many WRXers simply don't know how to work with a caddie. I do not say this to demean you - it's just outside your experience.

 

Also, there's a wide variety of caddies out there. Some are full timers who do it all year, others are weekend-only veterans who do it as a second job. Then there's schoolboy caddies, with varying degrees of training. And, some clubs treat their caddies well. Others abuse them and expect them to do "off the clock" menial work for free - a frequent source of wage-and-hour lawsuits.

 

Overall, we're talking about managing expectations. Golfers have them, caddies have them. Well-managed clubs ensure the two sets of expectations mesh.

 

Side note: To alleviate slow play, require riding foursomes to take a cart runner. Someone to go out ahead and look for tee shots, take the pin, and pick up the PW that the guy always leaves behind at the last green.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, ChipNRun said:

Lived in St. Louis area. Got my start at Algonquin GC... 

 

Ah, memories. I grew up in St. Louis and snuck onto Algonquin, Old Warson, St. Louis Country Club, Glen Echo, Norwood Hills, Bellerive, Normandie.  The private country clubs held a fascination for me since I cut my teeth on the game on the public tracks.  I came up with a technique to get me on the private courses, and yes, I was caught several times but never got into trouble. The technique was my perfect alibi.

 

Speaking of being a caddie, I caddied at Norwood Hills.  I'm on the West Coast now but every September I can look for my old footprints on Norwood Hills as it is in the rotation on the Champions Tour on TV.

[ChipNRun]

@Double Mocha Man... Normandie has survived - again. It was closing down, up for sale, closing down, up for sale three times since 2010.

 

Now the Metropolitan Golf Foundation bought Normandie from UMSL for $1.5 million. And, Jack Nicklaus is spearheading a major renovation of the course.

 

The foundation is partnering with Beyond Housing and Walters Golf Mngt. to develop the facility. The reworked Normandie will tie into school and career development projects for the area.

 

Details: Normandie Golf

 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by ChipNRun
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[Double Mocha Man]

57 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

@Double Mocha Man... Normandie has survived - again. It was closing down, up for sale, closing down, up for sale three times since 2010.

 

Now the Metropolitan Golf Foundation bought Normandie from UMSL for $1.5 million. And, Jack Nicklaus is spearheading a major renovation of the course.

 

The foundation is partnering with Beyond Housing and Walters Golf Mngt. to develop the facility. The reworked Normandie will tie into school and career development projects for the area.

 

Details: Normandie Golf

 

 

 

@ChipNRun  Thanks for the info.

[Argonne69]

Just booked a round at Cabot Cliffs. They offer A and B caddies. Never heard of this before. A caddies will give you yardages and tips, whereas B caddies simply carry your clubs. 

 

[ChipNRun]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

A caddies will give you yardages and tips, whereas B caddies simply carry your clubs.

 

This is a blast from the past. In my era, A caddies were proven veterans, and B caddies were apprentices.

[mshills]

We had B, A, and Honor caddies when I got started. 
 

B to A was a fairly quick promotion if you knew anything about golf and played yourself. A to Honor was a much bigger jump. 

[golfortennis]

My only true caddie experience was at the Old Course, and not a double bag situation.  I think one other thing a good caddy can do for you, which mine was excellent for, is if the course is located in a windy area, tell you what club you want to hit for the wind.  Ie, the yardage might be 160, but you may want to hit a 190 club with the wind.  That is the other thing a caddie can do IMO to really distinguish themselves.

[ChipNRun]

On 7/5/2022 at 9:44 AM, ChipDriver said:

I would guess that most of these posts are "one-offs" where your caddie and you have never met before?  That's not fair IMO and IMO NO caddie will live up to that expectation.

 

Brings back memories of the last time I caddied, in 2017 at a Symetra Tour event (LPGA developmental). Most of the women were 18-25 years of age. Some had regular caddies that traveled with them (sometimes family members) while others used volunteer caddies available at tournament site. And, a dozen or so carried their own bags. (Note: Symetra now called Epson Tour)

 

The event caddie master got the scheduling a day off. He told the out-of-town volunteers that practice rounds were on Tuesday. But they were on Monday. And, I didn't get contact information for my player until Saturday night prior. My wife and I were going to drive up Monday from two hours away, look around, and size up the scene. But, when I call my player Monday AM, she said her practice round was starting in 10 minutes. We decided to coordinate later.

 

I meet my player that afternoon, and we talk. I ask her her dominant shot shape, and she cuts me off. "You don't worry about that or the yardage. Just carry the bag and keep the clubs clean. That will help plenty."

 

I work with her on the range Tuesday and Wednesday - pro-am was Thursday. Then on Friday morning, the first time I plant the bag for her on the course we're playing for money. It would have really helped to have worked with her during the practice round.

 

Final result: the Fri-Sat-Sun tournament has a 36 hole cut. Cut line is -2; my player is -1, and hits a pin-high 7i into the 18th green, about 20 feet left. Good speed on the birdie putt, but it turns to the side at the last second, ending up two feet away.

 

And, she missed the tap-in for the par. It was as if the life drained out of her. It was painful to watch.

 

She thanked me. I took her bag to the parking lot.  She said she would head out the next morning to the next Symetra stop, 500 miles away in Michigan.

 

Wondered that evening if we had worked together on that Monday, maybe I could have been more helpful and she might have made the cut. Oh, well.

 

(P.S. My wife and I went back to No. 18 and watched the final Saturday threesomes play out. A half-dozen times someone at -1 needed a birdie putt, and missed. And, all six missed the  clean-up putt for par. One woman just stood there by the cup, shell-shocked. Her caddie had to usher her off the green.)

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by ChipNRun
Update: Symetra --> Epson

[golfday]

On 7/7/2022 at 2:10 PM, mshills said:

 

Ex caddie here.  Packing double is only occasionally much more physically demanding than carrying single.  Especially if the other caddie is experienced -- even better if the other caddie is experienced and the two caddies are accustomed to working together.

 

For those on this thread blaming slow play on double-bagging caddies, that just can't be true unless a.) the caddies weren't worth a #### or b.) one or both players expect the caddie to be on his hip every step of your round and made the group wait for the consult.  If you're not on tour you don't need that, and I'd argue that most Tour players would be better off without analysis paralysis with the caddie.

Ex-caddie here too. It also slows things down when the players are bad and neither player wants to touch their bag for the day. I can only get back and forth from the left trees to the right trees so quickly. So if neither player is willing to ever take their range finder and a couple of clubs with them or maybe occasionally rake a bunker when they both hit it in different bunkers, or start reading their putt while I'm in the bunker with the other guy, then it can take longer. Days like that were no fun.