LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[betarhoalphadelta]

15 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Yes, the market is huge. But would the market be for Asian Tour or DP/PGA Tours?  
 

Put it this way….and I don’t know the answer if it is even findable….do more Americans follow MLS or Premier League?  Folks I know that follow that are interested in Premier League only.

 

Put another way…would increasing interest in golf lead them to watch the minor leagues or majors?

 

Again, we're talking hypotheticals here, but my guess is that the market for golf will be for the most prestigious and highest level competitive tour...

 

...HOWEVER, I would think that if golf were to catch on in China/India and the rest of Asia as a percentage of population as it has in North America, that over time the Asian Tour would become the most prestigious and highest level tour. The Americas can't compete with that population, meaning that the Asian Tour would become the tour with the most advertising revenues supporting the highest purses attracting the best players. 

 

And it would occur naturally and organically--much the same way that the PGA Tour ascended via demographic support to become the premier golf tour in the world today. 

 

But again, I think this is the sort of things that takes at least a generation, if not more, to play out. And may NEVER happen for various cultural reasons. 

[Titleist99]

"Jack Nicklaus Thinks PGA Tour Is 'Pretty Darn Good Right Now' Despite LIV Challenge"

And Jack would be correct. 2023 was one of the most exciting and highly viewed seasons in recent memory. 2024 has been plagued with rain delays but still managed to showcase new talent. Contrary to what the pundits or LIV fans would have you believe the PGAT is just fine. IMO

 

PS/ I'm surprised that an investment deal haven't been announced as of yet.

[tomjas]

9 hours ago, Shilgy said:

The cricket deal earned $480b rupees…~$5.7b US for a five year deal. Not annual.

PGA tour earns more…$1.9b in 2022

$1.9 billion is the PGA Tour’s TOTAL revenue 

 

For IPL, you have to add sponsorship, ticket sales, franchise sales ($1.5 billion last year alone), global revenue from cricket investments in South Africa/UAE/UK etc 

 

It’s a monster which dwarfs the PGA Tour and only runs for 7 weeks 

 

As I said, the comparison really isn’t fair due to India’s population but if golf can make even minimal inroads into those markets then the potential is massive 

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

4 minutes ago, tomjas said:

$1.9 billion is the PGA Tour’s TOTAL revenue 

 

For IPL, you have to add sponsorship, ticket sales, franchise sales ($1.5 billion last year alone), global revenue from cricket investments in South Africa/UAE/UK etc 

 

It’s a monster which dwarfs the PGA Tour and only runs for 7 weeks 

 

As I said, the comparison really isn’t fair due to India’s population but if golf can make even minimal inroads into those markets then the potential is massive 

 

 

 

The PGA Tour has domestic TV and streaming rights contracts through 2030 worth more than $700 million annually with CBS, NBC and ESPN. It also struck a 12-year, $2 billion international rights deal with what’s now Warner Bros. Discovery in 2018, for a total of more than $8 billion in U.S. and global media rights.

[bekgolf]

17 minutes ago, tomjas said:

$1.9 billion is the PGA Tour’s TOTAL revenue 

 

For IPL, you have to add sponsorship, ticket sales, franchise sales ($1.5 billion last year alone), global revenue from cricket investments in South Africa/UAE/UK etc 

 

It’s a monster which dwarfs the PGA Tour and only runs for 7 weeks 

 

As I said, the comparison really isn’t fair due to India’s population but if golf can make even minimal inroads into those markets then the potential is massive 

 

 

 

 

I read that India has less than 200 courses.  First thing to do for popularity is build courses for normal citizens, then start local clubs to build interest.  In one or two generations it could take off but they need the golf infrastructure first.

[idrive]

11 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I seem to recall that in the Middle East and China golf is where it was in the US over a century ago. Strictly the playground of the upper class.

 

More like upper, upper, upper class.

 

Simply not part of their culture. I'd wager it never will be.

[tomjas]

2 hours ago, idrive said:

 

More like upper, upper, upper class.

 

Simply not part of their culture. I'd wager it never will be.

Swimming is not part of China’s culture and look where they are now 

 

Very few people had cars in the ME 40 years ago and now it’s one of the most important areas for global motor sports 

 

If they want to do it then they will 

[idrive]

5 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Swimming is not part of China’s culture and look where they are now 

 

Very few people had cars in the ME 40 years ago and now it’s one of the most important areas for global motor sports 

 

If they want to do it then they will 

 

Can't talk politics but if you search China's govt. stance, statements made in regard to golf, then you'll understand my post.

 

However, I said "never".

 

Never say never.

[notsohard]

Secret meeting being held in Florida this weekend between Yasir and the PGA player directors.

Not so secret now

[ALIF]

6 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

I read that India has less than 200 courses.  First thing to do for popularity is build courses for normal citizens, then start local clubs to build interest.  In one or two generations it could take off but they need the golf infrastructure first.

What they probably really need before golf courses is decent housing, clean water, and medical treatment/vaccines for majority of their people which they don’t seem to be doing a very good job at currently.

[bcjim]

6 hours ago, tomjas said:

Swimming is not part of China’s culture and look where they are now 

 

Very few people had cars in the ME 40 years ago and now it’s one of the most important areas for global motor sports 

 

If they want to do it then they will 

Where are they now? A few elite swimmers? My guess is most Chinese don't know or care. 

[bscinstnct]

5 hours ago, notsohard said:

Secret meeting being held in Florida this weekend between Yasir and the PGA player directors.

Not so secret now

Nice one nsh

 

https://golf.com/news/saudi-pif-boss-meet-pga-tour-players/?amp=1

 

“The story said the meeting would include Saudi PIF governor Yasir Al-Rumayyan and the policy board’s six player directors — Spieth, Tiger Woods, Patrick Cantlay, Adam Scott, Webb Simpson and Peter Malnati — though when Spieth was asked on Friday after his Players Championship second round to confirm the report, the question just noted him and “other policy board members.” 

 

Just hope Cantlay doesn’t mess it up 🤣

 

 

Edited March 16 by bscinstnct

[idrive]

6 hours ago, notsohard said:

Secret meeting being held in Florida this weekend between Yasir and the PGA player directors.

Not so secret now

 

Not much of a secret.

 

This story was on my news feed three days ago.

 

 

 

 

[billyspan]

On 3/14/2024 at 4:48 PM, ahenderX said:

From what I can find, there are about 500 golf courses in China. About 300 in India. About one course per 3.125M people. I think my math is correct.

An issue the Asian Tour faces is the strong and isolated domestic Tours of both Japan and Korea.  The bulk of the numbers come from those two countries (and China).  I love following the international tours and I imagine the PIF cash infusion helped what was a struggling tour.  Many events we're getting cancelled, shuffled around, and added last-minute.  I am sad that one of their historic events, the Singapore Open, is gone.

The Asian Tour is moving out of its bubble, however.  There are events in the MENA region, England, and New Zealand.

Honestly, I am curious as to why they have not merged or co-sanction more with the Australasia Tour.

The Asian Tour's YouTube content and view numbers are not good.

 

[billyspan]

22 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I seem to recall that in the Middle East and China golf is where it was in the US over a century ago. Strictly the playground of the upper class.

Absolutely correct having played in a few countries in Asia myself.

First-hand knowledge that this is the case in South America and Africa as well.  Think the .01%...

[Hawkeye77]

18 hours ago, tomjas said:

Swimming is not part of China’s culture and look where they are now 

 

Very few people had cars in the ME 40 years ago and now it’s one of the most important areas for global motor sports 

 

 

 

You mean ordinary folks in China now have pools in their backyards and municipal pools and YMCAs where the kiddies they are allowed to have go play and have carefree summer afternoons and birthday parties? 

 

These "observations" of yours are so woefully irrelevant - and not real smart.

 

We can't discuss the reasons your statements are nonsense without getting into politics and not going there, but . . . it's all pretty obvious, Captain.

Edited March 16 by Hawkeye77

[idrive]

9 hours ago, tomjas said:

Very few people had cars in the ME 40 years ago and now it’s one of the most important areas for global motor sports - because the Saudi's are buying the sports world.

 

Fixed it for you.

[bscinstnct]

9 hours ago, tomjas said:

Swimming is not part of China’s culture and look where they are now 

 

Very few people had cars in the ME 40 years ago and now it’s one of the most important areas for global motor sports 

 

If they want to do it then they will 

 

No.

 

Swimming is a sport that requires….a pool. 
 

You can build pools in every school or town from the city to the sticks and cultivate and select outliers and advance them into the elite ranks. Wit government subsidy and management, this can happen in a decade or two

 

 

Golf is totally different. The reason the UK/Ireland and US have the strongest pipelines of talent is because golf is a game that has been played over multi generations, handed from father to son. And the buildout of the enormous number of golf courses was done over a hundred or hundreds of years

 

As @billyspan pointed out, there 500 courses in China. For a population of 1.5 Billion 🤣

 

99% of kids in China prolly got no golf course within 500 miles of their house! And their father don’t play golf. Not to mention the price of the equipment 

 

Between Texas and Florida alone there are over 2000 courses alone. Every school prolly got a golf team with a local course

 

So, China would need to build like 10,000 golf courses and have a huge government program to push golf, buy the clubs, hire and train coaches etc. 

 

But…China seems to not be very interested in encouraging golf participation for the general population at all

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

Fixed it for you.

Yeah, the sports the Saudis are getting into has little to do with interest from the masses. 
 

@idrive you can fix that “little” to “nothing” 😂

Edited March 16 by Shilgy

[dciccoritti]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

No.

 

Swimming is a sport that requires….a pool. 
 

You can build pools in every school or town from the city to the sticks and cultivate and select outliers and advance them into the elite ranks. Wit government subsidy and management, this can happen in a decade or two

 

 

Golf is totally different. The reason the UK/Ireland and US have the strongest pipelines of talent is because golf is a game that has been played over multi generations, handed from father to son. And the buildout of the enormous number of golf courses was done over a hundred or hundreds of years

 

As @billyspan pointed out, there 500 courses in China. For a population of 1.5 Billion 🤣

 

99% of kids in China prolly got no golf course within 500 miles of their house! And their father don’t play golf. Not to mention the price of the equipment 

 

Between Texas and Florida alone there are over 2000 courses alone. Every school prolly got a golf team with a local course

 

So, China would need to build like 10,000 golf courses and have a huge government program to push golf, buy the clubs, hire and train coaches etc. 

 

But…China seems to not be very interested in encouraging golf participation for the general population at all

Purchasing politicians all over the globe ain't cheap. No money left over for golf.

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, billyspan said:

Absolutely correct having played in a few countries in Asia myself.

First-hand knowledge that this is the case in South America and Africa as well.  Think the .01%...

So, why all this global tour nonsense from Rory and others?

[bekgolf]

9 hours ago, ALIF said:

What they probably really need before golf courses is decent housing, clean water, and medical treatment/vaccines for majority of their people which they don’t seem to be doing a very good job at currently.

 

So it's probably not a huge, untapped market for golf fans after all.

[Titleist99]

3 hours ago, idrive said:

 

Not much of a secret.

 

This story was on my news feed three days ago.

 

 

 

 

And this is why you can't tell the players or the rank and file about your negotiating tactics......

[notsohard]

Jimmy not happy..

Edited March 16 by notsohard

[jdl]

9 minutes ago, notsohard said:

Johnny not happy..

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jimmy-walker-says-pga-tour-new-2023-fedex-fall-setup-total-bullxxxx

[CaymanS]

6 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

So, China would need to build like 10,000 golf courses and have a huge government program to push golf, buy the clubs, hire and train coaches etc. 

 

But…China seems to not be very interested in encouraging golf participation for the general population at all

I've heard the Chinese government frowns on the golf world because they associate it with gangster activity.  Not a positive way to move the country forward.

[notsohard]

7 hours ago, idrive said:

 

Not much of a secret.

 

This story was on my news feed three days ago.

 

 

 

 

lol..of course it's not a secret, when Yasirs press boy released it to golfweek on the morning of the 15th.

[GwrxMod]

This is beginning to veer off topic. Let's get back to talking about golf.

[billyspan]

9 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

So, why all this global tour nonsense from Rory and others?

Rory is way more interested in the World Open Slam, but he needs the First British Empire Slam first.  The "Modern Grand Slam" is so 90s.  Can't let things like the US Masters or US PGA get in the way of history. #ROBERTO  😉  

 

 

*There are MANY more columns (hidden) to this spreadsheet...

[iBanesto]

David Puig v John Catlin playoff in the International Series Macau right now.

 

Puig almost holed out for eagle on the 1st play off hole.