LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[King_Slender]

23 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

I haven't seen a ton of details here. I imagine it would work like a typical private company ESOP. It's not a public company so players won't be able to buy and sell in an active market. In a traditional ESOP, a company typically buys back shares from employees at retirement. In the VC world, employees frequently take loans against their shares to get liquidity. This is how Elon lives a lavish lifestyle despite taking a $1 salary from Tesla. He simply takes tax free distributions via loans from private lenders.

 

I have no idea how players will earn shares, though I don't think that's too hard to figure out. Some formula based on time and performance. Kept your card for 5 years? Congrats, you've earned shares! Won the tour championship? Congrats, here's an equity grant. Etc.  

 

This isn't a roundabout way for Jay to compensate top players. Its a clear, transparent, and very direct way for Jay to compensate top players. I imagine initial grants are going to be based on a players track record, tenure, and possibly, what they turned down from LIV. Moving forward I imagine is will be very time + performance oriented.    

 

That's why this needs to be define.  Equity cannot be infinite if they just keep doling out shares.

[Dutch1008]

4 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Why would the PGAT burn their sustainable business to the ground? LIV will never make money. Despite what some might think losing money every year is a fool's mission.

 

Maybe you should rethink your logic.....

 

The PGAT was sustainable. Now they have a class of player who primarily only plays signature events for $20M. They have sponsors pulling out and needed outside capital to stabilize and grow. What was once a good business, though I'd argue not optimally managed, has been materially harmed in this war w/ an irrational actor. 

 

As much as I'd love to see Yassir tire of throwing good money after bad and fold up shop, it doesn't appear that is going to happen. He's going to keep poaching players. Every time a new guy wins a major, there is going to be a realistic chance of him going to LIV. Hovland / Cantlay / Xander, whether you like them or not, are undeniably talented and a move to LIV becomes materially more likely if they lock in major exemptions. I'd guess there are a bunch of players similarly situated. 

 

I'm not going to start watching LIVs Mickey Mouse events if those dudes leave, but I'm also not going to deny that losing talent hurts the tour and weakens the product.  

[CDM]

2 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

I derive immense enjoyment from PGA Tour golf and I don't want to see it go away.  Liv wants to change that.  I have a forum to express my displeasure with the whole thing which is much better than keeping it in, keeping quiet, and watching it happen.

 

Sadly we all go back and forth at each other as each is very passonite about what they feel is right and yet it is not going to change the final outcome.

 

I was a bit surprised that Jay and a few others are pushing the deal harder then expected given SSG deal is signed.   I have no validation but when Jay said at his press confrence the SSG deal was done with intent of PIF...well I was a bit surprised.  in my business experience all 3 where talking more then I think the players knew. 

[Dutch1008]

27 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

If Aramco will put up 30-40MM in purses, every guy Rory etc will not hesitate to play. Some events will go south or be “opposite” field events. The top guys will still play the sane total number of events. 

 

At that point the tour is simply cutting off their nose to spite their face. I agree Rory and Co would go play $30-40M co-sponsored Aramco events. But he'd do that at the cost of 4 other tour stops. He played the Cognizant this year and I believe is scheduled for Valero too. He's not playing those events if he can fill his calendar with $30M alternatives. JT, Spieth and Xander aren't playing the Valspar or Farmers if they can replace those work weeks w/ silly money Aramco events. 

 

These dudes do not want to play more. They want to play 2-3x per month Jan thru Aug and that is it. 

[Dutch1008]

16 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

That's why this needs to be define.  Equity cannot be infinite if they just keep doling out shares.

 

What are you talking about? Companies expand their share count all the time. You can always issue more shares and dilute existing shareholders. Most public company CEOs derive most of their compensation from stock options. What matters is that earnings and valuation grows faster than dilution. 

[Titleist99]

11 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

The PGAT was sustainable. Now they have a class of player who primarily only plays signature events for $20M. They have sponsors pulling out and needed outside capital to stabilize and grow. What was once a good business, though I'd argue not optimally managed, has been materially harmed in this war w/ an irrational actor. 

 

As much as I'd love to see Yassir tire of throwing good money after bad and fold up shop, it doesn't appear that is going to happen. He's going to keep poaching players. Every time a new guy wins a major, there is going to be a realistic chance of him going to LIV. Hovland / Cantlay / Xander, whether you like them or not, are undeniably talented and a move to LIV becomes materially more likely if they lock in major exemptions. I'd guess there are a bunch of players similarly situated. 

 

I'm not going to start watching LIVs Mickey Mouse events if those dudes leave, but I'm also not going to deny that losing talent hurts the tour and weakens the product.  

"The PGAT was sustainable. Now they have a class of player who primarily only plays signature events for $20M."

 

PGAT has always been this way with WGC events, etc....

 

"They have sponsors pulling out and needed outside capital to stabilize and grow. What was once a good business, though I'd argue not optimally managed, has been materially harmed in this war w/ an irrational actor. "

 

Sponsors are still lining up to do business with the PGAT. Banking and the service industry love the PGAT values. The sponsors that left were restructuring, etc... 

 

"As much as I'd love to see Yassir tire of throwing good money after bad and fold up shop, it doesn't appear that is going to happen. He's going to keep poaching players."

 

The PGAT doesn't want LIV to disappear they want to control it. LIV signed Jon Rahm to a contract and the needle barely moved for them, Pro golf is not player-driven, it's the whole package. Signing Major winners don't bring eyeballs to that tour.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[CDM]

3 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Giving in to the bully doesn't work. 

 

The big difference is the term "bully" does not relate in business like it does in personal.

Edited March 21 by CDM

[NV825]

1 hour ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

@betarhoalphadelta said it better than I could have. 

 

That said, I don't think there is a world where PGAT has half the stars playing a dozen $20M events and LIV has half the stars playing a different dozen $20M events, where both enterprises make money. Golf is just not that big and popular as a spectator sport. Ratings for the tour will drop, sponsors will continue to push back on the PGAT. LIV ratings will continue to be meaningless with no hope of ever breaking even. 

 

I think both groups know this and realize its in their best interest to figure it out. I have an idea of where we'll end up but who knows how long it takes to get there. Reading the hints from Rory and Wyndham last week and even some of the long time statements from Greg and Phil, I think we are on the marching path to a world tour. I don't think it will look like LIV but I don't think it will look like the current PGAT either. My best guess...

 

PGAT, LIV, DPWT and others consolidate into the following....

 

PGA World - Top 100 players, 16 stroke play events (10 US based, 6 Intl), 4 team events, $20-25M purses. Add in the majors, ryder/pres cups and top players are playing a max of 25 events / yr

PGA Americas - ~150 players, 20ish events, $3M purses

PGA Europe - ~150 players, 20ish events, $3M purses

PGA Aussie/Asia - ~150 players, 20ish events, $3M purses   

 

Top 75 in the PGA World keep their card for the next year. Bottom 25 go to qualifying and are joined by the top 75 across the Americas/Europe/AussieAisa tours along w/ maybe the top 25 of players from NCAA. Those 125 players compete in a fall series (3-4 events) for the right to earn a tour card at the PGA World level. 

 

I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't watch a ton of the sub PGA World events. I doubt others would either. These tours would likely need to be subsidized by the World tour. However, that isn't that different from MLB subsidizing the Minor Leagues. I would get a kick out of fall qualifying though. You could have some awesome story lines. Struggling star like JT has to battle through qualifying, Aging star like  Adam Scott or Justin Rose, can a young buck like Gordon Sargeant jump directly from college to the world tour? It'd be a blast. Like Q school on steroids.  

 

I think this is a very realistic outcome, especially now that private equity is involved. I also think something like this will happen even if LIV does not merge. I don't see how much more they can grow than what they're already achieving in the USA, but PGAT players are going to find out that settling for low to no growth is not an option. 

 

[Dutch1008]

23 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

"The PGAT was sustainable. Now they have a class of player who primarily only plays signature events for $20M."

 

PGAT has always been this way with WGC events, etc....

Agree, that why I said "though not optimally managed". The PGAT has too many events. They've been more focused on increased playing opportunities for members than presenting world class tournaments for fans. The NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL cannot just recklessly expand into every city. Moving too fast just dilutes the quality of the product. If the top 100 guys are only playing 25 events a year, you shouldn't host another 20 events w/ the B squad. 

 

23 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

"They have sponsors pulling out and needed outside capital to stabilize and grow. What was once a good business, though I'd argue not optimally managed, has been materially harmed in this war w/ an irrational actor. "

 

Sponsors are still lining up to do business with the PGAT. Banking and the service industry love the PGAT values. The sponsors that left were restructuring, etc... 

 

The PGAT demo is still hugely valuable. But your wearing rose colored glasses if you don't think losing long time sponsors like Farmers, Wells, and Honda isn't a red flag. I've yet to see a WSJ article talking about a bidding war to replace these groups. 

 

23 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

"As much as I'd love to see Yassir tire of throwing good money after bad and fold up shop, it doesn't appear that is going to happen. He's going to keep poaching players."

 

The PGAT doesn't want LIV to disappear they want to control it. LIV signed Jon Rahm to a contract and the needle barely moved for them, Pro golf is not player-driven, it's the whole package. Signing Major winners don't bring eyeballs to that tour.

 

Not sure I get your point. Why would the PGAT want to control LIV? It has a handful of great golfers but is a complete money pit that no one watches. Wouldn't they be better off getting back those players, their small fan base, and shedding the massive costs of operating 14 $30M tournaments that nobody cares about? 

Edited March 21 by Dutch1008

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

If ARum wants LIV to continue as a brand, this is an ego fight and nothing will likely be resolved. They can brand the 4 event team series I suggested as the LIV Golf Team Series presented by Aramco. They can hold one of the stroke play events and another team event in Jeddah, Neom, or King Abdullah EC. Add in an Augusta membership and get this signed. ARum gets a seat on the board, a couple big events to help spark Saudi tourism, the naming rights on team golf, and the Augusta membership he so desperately wants. 

 

I see a problem w/ your plan. Top players don't want to play any more than they already do. So all the PGAT would really be getting is a new sponsor committed to taking over from disgruntled sponsors. There wouldn't be 4 new Aramco events, they'd simply rebrand Farmers, Honda, Well Fargo etc. Also, do the LIV guys want to add 4 events to their schedule. They likely have no choice in the matter but the vast majority of them screamed from the mountain tops that one of the primary reasons for joining LIV was to play less. 

 

I think both parties need to burn it all to the ground and start from scratch.  

You really think anyone can just walk up to Augusta National’s gate with a check and become a member?

 

Bill Gates campaigned for years and was declined.  Someone that spends other people’s money wouldn’t have an edge.

[CDM]

2 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Disagree.  The PGA events so far this year have had fantastic finishes and world quality golf being played by names that are new to the winners circle.  Just having the names won't do it, it's a huge waste of money and all it's doing is tearing up the tour.  How does anyone support that?

 

 

The golf events have been "decent" to watch for sure, but not for a business trying to survive. 

 

One aspect  have not seen in  this thread is, have the players openly attack Jay, openly saying that LIV has Top 10 Top 25 players, constantly bringing up money.... all it is probably not helping either.  

 

Valspar, normally sells out the event.  A couple of nights ago on the Golf Channel they talked to Barber and there are tickets still available.....for each day.  Thoought that was odd as Valspar has more top players this year then they did last year.  

 

Nick Dunlap's win is the only event to have good ratings. All the other events are way day. 

 

Take the passion for the game out of  it for now, viewership down that much, sponsors start to ask the hard questions  "is the rate of return worth what we are paying"  

 

So not having all the best (precieved or not) players together the end result is what we are seeing. 

 

[Dutch1008]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

You really think anyone can just walk up to Augusta National’s gate with a check and become a member?

 

Bill Gates campaigned for years and was declined.  Someone that spends other people’s money wouldn’t have an edge.

 

If this is to be believed, plenty of finance bros are members at Augusta...

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-augusta-national-golf-club-members/

 

Druckenmiller runs a hedge fund, Carlyle is a PE shop. Both these dudes literally spend other peoples money, no different than Yassir role at the PIF. And Bill Gates is a member. 

 

I understand it's unbelievably hard to get into Augusta, but the PGAT has a long standing relationship w/ Augusta. Jimmy Dunne is a member. The guys at SSG are most certainly connected to many members. Augusta could bring golf back together if it wanted to. 

[bekgolf]

25 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

Take the passion for the game out of  it for now, viewership down that much, sponsors start to ask the hard questions  "is the rate of return worth what we are paying"  

 

 

 

None of it works without sponsors.  Sponsors want to see certain demographics in the audience, otherwise there isn't a reason to advertise.

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

They can easily make it a 70-80 person field, no cut, get rid of the mumble rap,

 

 

You keep using this term... I've been wondering a long time.

 

What is mumble rap?

 

I wouldn't exactly call myself a hip hop devotee, but I'm not unfamiliar with the genre. One of the more important things in that genre is the ability to rap with moderately understandable diction. I mean, there are exceptions... The Notorious BIG wasn't so tight; i.e. he was what Patton Oswalt calls "B word fat", and then there was Mase who I'd agree was a mumbler... But that was the 90s. Likewise I could say that anything Bob Dylan ever recorded, or Pearl Jam's "Yellow Ledbetter" are virtually unintelligible, but I'm not going to define rock music as "mumble rock" based on those examples...

 

So I'm wondering exactly what you're actually trying to refer to here... Do you have examples of artists that I should look into to understand the mumble rap sub-genre?

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, CDM said:

 

Not a bad thought.

 

Not sure it works though? The MEDIA rights is what makes pertty much all the money for the PGAT.  How it has played out so far I dont think any of the groups being dicussed are going to give up not being part of that.   

 

PGAT is not hiding it, that media rights is where all the monies come from for the tour........as we know Phil did his soapbox on it.

 

I have been assuming (could be way wrong) the for profit entitiy would be the media rights side? How they can get a return.  I think if they go after the sponosrs it will go bad.  As we know they poked at 3 for more money to be elevated events and those 3 have withdrawn from being sponsors. 

 

LIV and Aramco both are ultimately owned by the same entity 

 

Aramco sponsors the event, they get the typical sponsor benefits, therefore LIVs paymasters do as well, the tour gets the media revenue, LIV gets to participate in a real golf tournament. 

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

You keep using this term... I've been wondering a long time.

 

What is mumble rap?

 

I wouldn't exactly call myself a hip hop devotee, but I'm not unfamiliar with the genre. One of the more important things in that genre is the ability to rap with moderately understandable diction. I mean, there are exceptions... The Notorious BIG wasn't so tight; i.e. he was what Patton Oswalt calls "B word fat", and then there was Mase who I'd agree was a mumbler... But that was the 90s. Likewise I could say that anything Bob Dylan ever recorded, or Pearl Jam's "Yellow Ledbetter" are virtually unintelligible, but I'm not going to define rock music as "mumble rock" based on those examples...

 

So I'm wondering exactly what you're actually trying to refer to here... Do you have examples of artists that I should look into to understand the mumble rap sub-genre?

🤣

 

just google it. Eminem has songs ripping it

 

The lyrics are all slurred together

[tomjas]

1 hour ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

At that point the tour is simply cutting off their nose to spite their face. I agree Rory and Co would go play $30-40M co-sponsored Aramco events. But he'd do that at the cost of 4 other tour stops. He played the Cognizant this year and I believe is scheduled for Valero too. He's not playing those events if he can fill his calendar with $30M alternatives. JT, Spieth and Xander aren't playing the Valspar or Farmers if they can replace those work weeks w/ silly money Aramco events. 

 

These dudes do not want to play more. They want to play 2-3x per month Jan thru Aug and that is it. 

So what you’re saying is that they want to play less but earn more

 

Where have I heard that before?

[tomjas]

Hilarious that some are so parochial that you wouldn’t watch a tournament sponsored by Aramco

 

If that’s truly the case then you should avoid doing research into the sponsors of most stops on the tour 

[betarhoalphadelta]

50 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

Agree, that why I said "though not optimally managed". The PGAT has too many events. They've been more focused on increased playing opportunities for members than presenting world class tournaments for fans. The NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL cannot just recklessly expand into every city. Moving too fast just dilutes the quality of the product. If the top 100 guys are only playing 25 events a year, you shouldn't host another 20 events w/ the B squad. 

 

 

I don't agree the PGAT has too many events. The idea that there was a "pecking order" of events and some were more prestigious and attracted more top players than others was there LONG before the elevated/signature events thing happened. 

 

The biggest risk of your proposal that I can think of is that if you separate PGA World from PGA Americas, you create an even worse two-tier system than we currently have with the regular and signature events. Today, the regular events are important because players can use them to play their way into the signature events. And *some* top players (past winners, guys with name but who are struggling like JT, etc) will play in some of them because they get points, further making the regular events important. You break that link and I doubt those players will "slum it" in any PGA Americas events. 

 

I don't understand the whole "PGAT has too many events" schtick... Nobody is saying you have to watch EVERY event. Isn't more golf a good thing?

[Hawkeye77]

31 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Hilarious that some are so parochial that you wouldn’t watch a tournament sponsored by Aramco

 

 

Actually nothing funny about it but we aren't allowed to discuss a variety of things relevant to why I won't watch.

 

And I don't have time for all the "whataboutism" - you draw your lines in the desert, I'll draw mine, but this is definitely one for me.  

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

 Augusta could bring golf back together if it wanted to. 

 

LOL, no.  Starting to wander a bit too far, IMO.

Edited March 21 by Hawkeye77

[Dutch1008]

2 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

I don't understand the whole "PGAT has too many events" schtick... Nobody is saying you have to watch EVERY event. Isn't more golf a good thing?

 

Do we need more NHL / NBA / MLB games? At a certain point, more is just dilutive. With LIV around we all have more golf than ever, does anybody besides the LIV bots think things have improved? 

 

The way I see it, 8 months (Jan thru Aug), 3 tournaments per month, and 4 rounds per tournament, plus 4 more days for ryder/president cup effectively gives me 100 games to watch every year. That's a lot of anything. I'm a Colorado sports fan. I don't watch every Nuggets / Avs / Rockies game. Those are long seasons. I have other interests, hobbies, and responsibilities. 

 

Besides, there will still be plenty of golf to watch. NCAA, LPGA, Champions Tour, plus all the golf below my theoretical "PGA World" tour will still exist. As you said, there has long been a pecking order, my structure is just honest about it. The Corales Puntacana has always been more of a KFT event that PGAT event, we should stop acting like it isn't. 

 

What is the argument for keeping all these events? So more guys can say that they're a PGA Tour card holder? I could easily be talked into expanding the PGA World from the Top 100 to Top 150. The talent gap between #100 and #150 is probably pretty damn small. However, I struggle to accept that the Myrtle Beach Classic, Kentucky Championship, Barracuda Championship, etc are top level professional events worthy of 2 year exemptions for winners etc. Those are minor league events and we simply pretend they aren't. These weren't started to fill an insatiable demand for golf, they were started to give more playing opportunities for members. Market demand should drive the product, not the wishes of the players.   

[Dutch1008]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

LOL, no.  Starting to wander a bit too far, IMO.

 

That was hyperbole. Although I do think there is a nugget of truth to it. Yassir wants to be a master of the universe. An Augusta membership is the ultimate credential. 

[Titleist99]

55 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I don't agree the PGAT has too many events. The idea that there was a "pecking order" of events and some were more prestigious and attracted more top players than others was there LONG before the elevated/signature events thing happened. 

 

The biggest risk of your proposal that I can think of is that if you separate PGA World from PGA Americas, you create an even worse two-tier system than we currently have with the regular and signature events. Today, the regular events are important because players can use them to play their way into the signature events. And *some* top players (past winners, guys with name but who are struggling like JT, etc) will play in some of them because they get points, further making the regular events important. You break that link and I doubt those players will "slum it" in any PGA Americas events. 

 

I don't understand the whole "PGAT has too many events" schtick... Nobody is saying you have to watch EVERY event. Isn't more golf a good thing?

"I don't understand the whole "PGAT has too many events" schtick... Nobody is saying you have to watch EVERY event. Isn't more golf a good thing?"

 

100%, I don't understand that line of thinking either. The tour has over 200 members to worry about, not 48 that play each other over and over again. To say that the tour has too many tournaments is laughable. Lots of charities depend on the PGAT and its partners for contributions.

 

Part of the PGATs mission is to create playing opportunities for its members.

 

.

Edited March 21 by Titleist99

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, Dutch1008 said:

 

That was hyperbole. Although I do think there is a nugget of truth to it. Yassir wants to be a master of the universe. An Augusta membership is the ultimate credential. 

 

Yikes, guarantee that's not how they would try and solve the problem!!!!!

 

Although if Phil made the cut and needed to play with a marker on Sunday because there was an odd number and he was in last place, sending him out as the marker would make for some fun for all.  Fred:  "Can't buy your way out of this one pal."

 

 

[Dutch1008]

51 minutes ago, tomjas said:

So what you’re saying is that they want to play less but earn more

 

Where have I heard that before?

 

Boom roasted! You got me bruv. LIV rulez! Greg Norman 4life!

 

The top guys have been playing 25ish events every year since Tiger popularized it 20 years ago. The LIV defectors, despite having it better than all the other professional golfers who ever lived, still thought a 4 day work week and half a year of work was too much for them. They're clowns. Enjoy watching Phil and AK fire 80s while DJ continues to get fatter by the day. 

[Shilgy]

40 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Do we need more NHL / NBA / MLB games? At a certain point, more is just dilutive. With LIV around we all have more golf than ever, does anybody besides the LIV bots think things have improved? 

 

The way I see it, 8 months (Jan thru Aug), 3 tournaments per month, and 4 rounds per tournament, plus 4 more days for ryder/president cup effectively gives me 100 games to watch every year. That's a lot of anything. I'm a Colorado sports fan. I don't watch every Nuggets / Avs / Rockies game. Those are long seasons. I have other interests, hobbies, and responsibilities. 

 

Besides, there will still be plenty of golf to watch. NCAA, LPGA, Champions Tour, plus all the golf below my theoretical "PGA World" tour will still exist. As you said, there has long been a pecking order, my structure is just honest about it. The Corales Puntacana has always been more of a KFT event that PGAT event, we should stop acting like it isn't. 

 

What is the argument for keeping all these events? So more guys can say that they're a PGA Tour card holder? I could easily be talked into expanding the PGA World from the Top 100 to Top 150. The talent gap between #100 and #150 is probably pretty damn small. However, I struggle to accept that the Myrtle Beach Classic, Kentucky Championship, Barracuda Championship, etc are top level professional events worthy of 2 year exemptions for winners etc. Those are minor league events and we simply pretend they aren't. These weren't started to fill an insatiable demand for golf, they were started to give more playing opportunities for members. Market demand should drive the product, not the wishes of the players.   

The talent gap is incredibly small.  Scoring average gap between #50 and #150 is less than one stroke per round.

171 players last year averaged less than 71.0 last season.  It’s a very deep tour and getting deeper. #10 and #91 are separated by just one stroke per round.

 

For those that think the “other”events are bush league….i believe the phrase used was KF equivalent…. the top 125 are the equivalent Pro Bowl selected NFL players. There are, not counting pitchers, 240 starters in MLB.  Which means every guy with a card in PGA and KF is starter level in baseball.

 

Puts it in perspective.

 

PS…oh crap…forgot the universal DH….make that 270 starters in MLB.

Edited March 21 by Shilgy

[betarhoalphadelta]

22 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Do we need more NHL / NBA / MLB games? At a certain point, more is just dilutive. With LIV around we all have more golf than ever, does anybody besides the LIV bots think things have improved? 

 

 

I think it's a poor analogy. The issue with NHL/NBA/MLB games is that the "field" is the same each time. I agree that I don't know how people can get emotionally invested in a regular-season MLB game when it's 1 out of 162 for their team. Other sports (like NFL and college football) garner the attention they do because every game, every win, is precious. When you have 162 games, IMHO that's gone. 

 

But golf is different. Players can choose to play--or not to play--individual events. They're not contracted like the LIV boys. Which means that you'll inevitably have some more prestigious events than others. But the "others" also are meaningful for those players who are in them. They're good tournaments with high-level golf. Wins in those lower-prestige events can be life-changing for the winner. 

 

Maybe you're not going to see multiple major winners atop the leaderboard come Sunday afternoon, but you know that EVERY player atop that leaderboard is invested in the outcome. In that sense, I don't think it's dilutive. Because it's not "just another tournament" for some journeyman who's been on tour for 10 years and is trying to grow his career PGA Tour win count from a 1 into a 2, or some up and comer searching for his first. 

 

Quote

What is the argument for keeping all these events?  

 

Because enough viewers watch, and enough sponsors pay for them, to make them economically viable. 

 

Maybe watching them isn't everyone's cup of tea. But apparently enough viewers watch them to keep advertisers writing checks. 

[Shilgy]

19 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Boom roasted! You got me bruv. LIV rulez! Greg Norman 4life!

 

The top guys have been playing 25ish events every year since Tiger popularized it 20 years ago. The LIV defectors, despite having it better than all the other professional golfers who ever lived, still thought a 4 day work week and half a year of work was too much for them. They're clowns. Enjoy watching Phil and AK fire 80s while DJ continues to get fatter by the day. 

Now you’re just making stuff up.  Top guys have played less forever.

 

Here’s one example…Jacked played 26 one in 1962. And backed way off from there.

 

https://www.pgatour.com/player/01869/jack-nicklaus/results

[Dutch1008]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

The talent gap is incredibly small.  Scoring average gap between #50 and #150 is less than one stroke per round.

171 players last year averaged less than 71.0 last season.  It’s a very deep tour and getting deeper. #10 and #91 are separated by just one stroke per round.

 

I don't disagree. I'd cap the number at 150 because I think that is the most players a tournament can handle. I choose 100 simply because I just think there is something cool about it. Making the top tour would signal that for a moment in time, you were one of the top 100 golfers on earth. I think that's awesome. Plus, it does seem like the players have been pretty damn successful in shrinking fields. I think 52 at LIV is too small and I think the 69 that made it into the API is too small. I consider 100 a compromise but would implement a cut for any player outside 10 strokes. 

 

What I think is most certain to change is that I don't think players are going to get to pick and choose their schedules. Both the PIF and SSG will want players committed so that they can sell their events to sponsors and advertisers. LIV actually got that part right. Those guys don't get to skip Saudi or the sweltering heat in Singapore. They're contracted for 14 events and baring injury, 14 events is what they are going to play.