LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Hawkeye77]

8 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Now you’re just making stuff up.  Top guys have played less forever.

 

Here’s one example…Jacked played 26 one in 1962. And backed way off from there.

 

https://www.pgatour.com/player/01869/jack-nicklaus/results

 

As Chi Chi famously said, "Jack is a legend in his spare time."

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

I don't disagree. I'd cap the number at 150 because I think that is the most players a tournament can handle. I choose 100 simply because I just think there is something cool about it. Making the top tour would signal that for a moment in time, you were one of the top 100 golfers on earth. I think that's awesome. Plus, it does seem like the players have been pretty damn successful in shrinking fields. I think 52 at LIV is too small and I think the 69 that made it into the API is too small. I consider 100 a compromise but would implement a cut for any player outside 10 strokes. 

 

What I think is most certain to change is that I don't think players are going to get to pick and choose their schedules. Both the PIF and SSG will want players committed so that they can sell their events to sponsors and advertisers. LIV actually got that part right. Those guys don't get to skip Saudi or the sweltering heat in Singapore. They're contracted for 14 events and baring injury, 14 events is what they are going to play.  

That’s really not working then as they’re not finding many buyers.  I think the must play aspect is more to make the team concept work.

[Dutch1008]

22 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

The talent gap is incredibly small.  Scoring average gap between #50 and #150 is less than one stroke per round.

171 players last year averaged less than 71.0 last season.  It’s a very deep tour and getting deeper. #10 and #91 are separated by just one stroke per round.

 

For those that think the “other”events are bush league….i believe the phrase used was KF equivalent…. the top 125 are the equivalent Pro Bowl selected NFL players. There are, not counting pitchers, 240 starters in MLB.  Which means every guy with a card in PGA and KF is starter level in baseball.

 

Puts it in perspective.

 

I'm not saying they're not fabulously talented golfers. But professional sports is a game of relative ability. You don't get to earn a living because you hit some fixed standard of performance. Not every kid that can throw 95 mph makes it to the show. The demand from fans will ultimately dictate the size of the market. 

 

Also, the NFL brings in $18B in revenue. The PGAT brings in $2B. The NFL can afford to employ a lot more professional athletes. Especially when golfers have convinced themselves that they should be playing for $20M every time they tee it up. 

 

Further, according to the NFHS roughly 150k boys golf played golf. Nearly 1M played football. 900k played baseball. 500k played basketball. Put more athletes into the top of the funnel, you'll get more elite athletes out of the bottom of the funnel. 

[Dutch1008]

26 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Now you’re just making stuff up.  Top guys have played less forever.

 

Here’s one example…Jacked played 26 one in 1962. And backed way off from there.

 

https://www.pgatour.com/player/01869/jack-nicklaus/results

 

 Appreciate the correction. Although I think that is just more proof that the PGAT should shrink. 

[Dutch1008]

32 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

I think it's a poor analogy. The issue with NHL/NBA/MLB games is that the "field" is the same each time. I agree that I don't know how people can get emotionally invested in a regular-season MLB game when it's 1 out of 162 for their team. Other sports (like NFL and college football) garner the attention they do because every game, every win, is precious. When you have 162 games, IMHO that's gone. 

 

But golf is different. Players can choose to play--or not to play--individual events. They're not contracted like the LIV boys. Which means that you'll inevitably have some more prestigious events than others. But the "others" also are meaningful for those players who are in them. They're good tournaments with high-level golf. Wins in those lower-prestige events can be life-changing for the winner. 

 

Maybe you're not going to see multiple major winners atop the leaderboard come Sunday afternoon, but you know that EVERY player atop that leaderboard is invested in the outcome. In that sense, I don't think it's dilutive. Because it's not "just another tournament" for some journeyman who's been on tour for 10 years and is trying to grow his career PGA Tour win count from a 1 into a 2, or some up and comer searching for his first. 

 

 

Because enough viewers watch, and enough sponsors pay for them, to make them economically viable. 

 

Maybe watching them isn't everyone's cup of tea. But apparently enough viewers watch them to keep advertisers writing checks. 

 

Appreciate the thoughtful reply. 

 

Now that SSG and PIF are involved, I think the days of players picking and choosing their spots is coming to an end. Time will tell. While I don't agree with everything Monahan has done, I do think the people constantly dogging him don't give him the credit he deserves. Negotiating a media deal and securing sponsors when you have zero ability to guaranty what players will show up is no easy gig. I think it will be easier for SSG to get a big broadcast deal and stronger sponsors by selling 20 Riv/Players caliber events than selling 10 great events, 15 ok events, and 15 weak events.  You may disagree. 

 

As to your last point, I would love to understand the event level P&L for both the tour and the broadcasters. Do the weak field events like Zurich or the opposite field events like Puntacana actually turn a profit or does CBS/NBC make enough money on the big events to accept the loses on the others? I imagine there is a lot of subsidizing going on. We all know it materially effects the broadcast. The players broadcast last week was fantastic. Valspar will not be remotely close in quality. Fewer camera angles, less on course coverage, fewer shots shown, more commercial load. They squeeze costs because the revenue is not there.    

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

 Appreciate the correction. Although I think that is just more proof that the PGAT should shrink. 

Every baseball game is not Dodgers Yankees or whatever you consider the equivalent….sometimes it’s Oakland Pittsburgh.  Doesn’t make it irrelevant. 
 

Some, sounds like you are included, feel they deserve to see an all star game every event.  Your plan would make a LIV more relevant.  No way for the kids or improving veteran to “get there”.  No Lucas Glover or Rickie Fowler stories…just tell them to quit, I guess.🤔

Edited March 22 by Shilgy

[Dutch1008]

43 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

That’s really not working then as they’re not finding many buyers.  I think the must play aspect is more to make the team concept work.

 

LIVs ratings are trash. Imagine how much worse they'd be if DJ, Rahm, and  Brooks decided they only wanted to play half the scheduled events? 

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

I'm not saying they're not fabulously talented golfers. But professional sports is a game of relative ability. You don't get to earn a living because you hit some fixed standard of performance. Not every kid that can throw 95 mph makes it to the show. The demand from fans will ultimately dictate the size of the market. 

 

Also, the NFL brings in $18B in revenue. The PGAT brings in $2B. The NFL can afford to employ a lot more professional athletes. Especially when golfers have convinced themselves that they should be playing for $20M every time they tee it up. 

 

Further, according to the NFHS roughly 150k boys golf played golf. Nearly 1M played football. 900k played baseball. 500k played basketball. Put more athletes into the top of the funnel, you'll get more elite athletes out of the bottom of the funnel. 

Umm, the PGA Tour has players from all over the world. Not just from US high schools.

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

LIVs ratings are trash. Imagine how much worse they'd be if DJ, Rahm, and  Brooks decided they only wanted to play half the scheduled events? 

 

[tomjas]

Okay, as someone who has actually watched some LIV golf (literally bits & pieces of 3 tournaments in 3 years), I will give my take on the tournaments for those who don’t watch at all

 

GOOD

 

The players are still really good

 

The format works IN THEORY 

 

Whether it’s a 3 or 4 day event, the objective is still to card the lowest possible score 

 

Shotgun starts condense playing time and virtually guarantee that there’s a golf shot to watch at all times 

 

I enjoy watching golf from different countries and bar the classic venues, find it far more interesting than a random stop on courses which don’t differ all that much to the casual viewer and offer little in way of interest from a tourist perspective 

 

The app is excellent 

 

AVERAGE to BAD

 

Not carried by major networks

 

No idea why the Saudis haven’t used their financial muscle to get slots but it’s a bad mistake not to have done so

 

The format is ordinary at best IN PRACTICE 

 

As another poster mentioned, match play would be far more interesting & would differentiate itself from the regular tours in a meaningful way 

 

What’s more, other sports such as surfing and sailing have successfully transitioned from large field events to match play only so there’s precedent 

 

Some of the venues aren’t the best on offer

 

Adelaide was highly successful but The Grange is just a top 40 or so course in the country and I’m sure that many of the top ones would welcome a LIV event 

 

On screen graphics are bad - confusing & distracting

 

One on course commentator has a voice like nails on a chalkboard 

 

The team aspect doesn’t do much for me & probably doesn’t for most long term golf watchers 

 

Stand alone teams event(s) might help in that regard and couldn’t be any worse than The President’s Cup but overall I just don’t care 

 

In summary, while better than your average tour event, that’s only because some of the world’s best are playing & it’s nowhere near as good as it could be let alone worth the investment 

[ThinkingPlus]

4 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

 

Undefined

[King_Slender]

4 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

LIVs ratings are trash. Imagine how much worse they'd be if DJ, Rahm, and  Brooks decided they only wanted to play half the scheduled events? 

 

Is a major factor in you enjoying televised golf what the ratings are? 

 

Here's part of what's great about LIV - you get to know and see all of the players on a pretty regular basis.  You can got MONTHS without seeing a player on TV on the PGA Tour unless they hole out.  In a LIV broadcast it's 54 players in a broadcast that shows 90-100 shots an hour and you see at least a couple of shots from every player.

 

Couple that with the team element, which makes players well off the lead potentially relevant on Sunday if they are in contention for the team title, and see shots from up and down the leaderboard.  In a PGA event on Sunday you might see shots from the top 4-5 guys and they'll throw in token hole-outs or a bigger name finishing up.  

[Dutch1008]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Every baseball game is not Dodgers Yankees or whatever you consider the equivalent….sometimes it’s Oakland Pittsburgh.  Doesn’t make it irrelevant. 
 

Some, sound like you included, feel they deserve to see an all star game every event.  Your plan would make a LIV more relevant.  No way for the kids or improving veteran to “get there”.  No Lucas Glover or Rickie Fowler stories…just tell them to quit, I guess.🤔

 

Not true at all. I proposed a structure with 25% annual turnover and a 450 player subsidized minor league. Lose your World card and you head down a level until you earn your way back up. Honestly, what I've proposed isn't dissimilar to what we have. Max Homa lost his card twice and made it back via KFT. My structure would work exactly the same. Fowler and Glover could re-earn their status. The only real change I've made is to remove the charade that there are 40+ PGAT quality tournaments. 

 

We should all face facts. There are two tours today. The signature events where all the top guys play (sans the few from LIV that matter), and all the other events, where a small sprinkling of the top guys play.  

 

For crying out loud Luke Donald and Zach Johnson are playing this week! Now I love Luke Donald. I got into Mizuno clubs because of Luke Donald. He has a beautifully simple clean swing and the dude is a short game wizard. He's also been a negative strokes gained player every year since 2017! He is getting starts that rightfully belong to some dude grinding on the KFT. These two are exactly who Rory was talking about when he talked about the tour being more cut throat.   

[Dutch1008]

24 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Umm, the PGA Tour has players from all over the world. Not just from US high schools.

 

Well there is roughly 50M male golfers in the world and the US represents about half. So I think you can safely double the US number. Still substantially more athletes going into other sports. We didn't even bring up soccer which is the real behemoth. 

 

Regardless, the point is that just because there are X professional athletes in one sport doesn't mean there should be an equal number of professionals in another. It just doesn't work like that. Professional sports, when not subsidized by Saudi dictators, have to follow general economic principles of supply and demand. 

[Dutch1008]

23 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Okay, as someone who has actually watched some LIV golf (literally bits & pieces of 3 tournaments in 3 years), I will give my take on the tournaments for those who don’t watch at all

 

GOOD

 

The players are still really good

 

The format works IN THEORY 

 

Whether it’s a 3 or 4 day event, the objective is still to card the lowest possible score 

 

Shotgun starts condense playing time and virtually guarantee that there’s a golf shot to watch at all times 

 

I enjoy watching golf from different countries and bar the classic venues, find it far more interesting than a random stop on courses which don’t differ all that much to the casual viewer and offer little in way of interest from a tourist perspective 

 

The app is excellent 

 

AVERAGE to BAD

 

Not carried by major networks

 

No idea why the Saudis haven’t used their financial muscle to get slots but it’s a bad mistake not to have done so

 

The format is ordinary at best IN PRACTICE 

 

As another poster mentioned, match play would be far more interesting & would differentiate itself from the regular tours in a meaningful way 

 

What’s more, other sports such as surfing and sailing have successfully transitioned from large field events to match play only so there’s precedent 

 

Some of the venues aren’t the best on offer

 

Adelaide was highly successful but The Grange is just a top 40 or so course in the country and I’m sure that many of the top ones would welcome a LIV event 

 

On screen graphics are bad - confusing & distracting

 

One on course commentator has a voice like nails on a chalkboard 

 

The team aspect doesn’t do much for me & probably doesn’t for most long term golf watchers 

 

Stand alone teams event(s) might help in that regard and couldn’t be any worse than The President’s Cup but overall I just don’t care 

 

In summary, while better than your average tour event, that’s only because some of the world’s best are playing & it’s nowhere near as good as it could be let alone worth the investment 

 

I've watched a very small amount of LIV. Mostly just a few highlight packages on youtube. It's not for me but I do appreciate a balanced reply. 

[Shilgy]

18 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Not true at all. I proposed a structure with 25% annual turnover and a 450 player subsidized minor league. Lose your World card and you head down a level until you earn your way back up. Honestly, what I've proposed isn't dissimilar to what we have. Max Homa lost his card twice and made it back via KFT. My structure would work exactly the same. Fowler and Glover could re-earn their status. The only real change I've made is to remove the charade that there are 40+ PGAT quality tournaments. 

 

We should all face facts. There are two tours today. The signature events where all the top guys play (sans the few from LIV that matter), and all the other events, where a small sprinkling of the top guys play.  

 

For crying out loud Luke Donald and Zach Johnson are playing this week! Now I love Luke Donald. I got into Mizuno clubs because of Luke Donald. He has a beautifully simple clean swing and the dude is a short game wizard. He's also been a negative strokes gained player every year since 2017! He is getting starts that rightfully belong to some dude grinding on the KFT. These two are exactly who Rory was talking about when he talked about the tour being more cut throat.   

Gee, I wonder why they are in the field this week.  What could it be? Spider Cup? No that’s not it. It’s some moving company I think….

Ryder Cup captains…not current playing form.  But then, you already knew that’s why they are there.

[Shilgy]

11 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Well there is roughly 50M male golfers in the world and the US represents about half. So I think you can safely double the US number. Still substantially more athletes going into other sports. We didn't even bring up soccer which is the real behemoth. 

 

Regardless, the point is that just because there are X professional athletes in one sport doesn't mean there should be an equal number of professionals in another. It just doesn't work like that. Professional sports, when not subsidized by Saudi dictators, have to follow general economic principles of supply and demand. 

C’mon…you’re attempting to talk in circles.  I didn’t ask for a PGA Tour with 750 like MLB.  Just making some aware…because it gets forgotten….that all of these guys are excellent players.  
If you don’t know who they are or don’t think a guy with a 70.96 scoring average last year “deserves” to be there that’s on you.

 

PGA tour is the all star game of professional golf.

[Dutch1008]

20 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

Is a major factor in you enjoying televised golf what the ratings are? 

 

Here's part of what's great about LIV - you get to know and see all of the players on a pretty regular basis.  You can got MONTHS without seeing a player on TV on the PGA Tour unless they hole out.  In a LIV broadcast it's 54 players in a broadcast that shows 90-100 shots an hour and you see at least a couple of shots from every player.

 

Couple that with the team element, which makes players well off the lead potentially relevant on Sunday if they are in contention for the team title, and see shots from up and down the leaderboard.  In a PGA event on Sunday you might see shots from the top 4-5 guys and they'll throw in token hole-outs or a bigger name finishing up.  

 

I only care about ratings insomuch as they're a driver of what we'll ultimately get to see long term. Everybody has had a show on Netflix or HBO that they loved, but was canceled due to weak ratings. 

 

Regarding LIV, I've watched little but what I have seen gave me whiplash. I'll grant you that a standard PGA event doesn't show nearly enough shots, LIV goes overboard and doesn't let anything breathe. The Masters finds a good balance and I thought the Players last week did great. The PGAT has major room for improvement but watching a LIV event is like listening to a podcast on 3x speed. Its too much. 

 

Sorry, but I just can't get into the week to week Team stuff. Pat Perez firing a Sunday 64 when he's 15 strokes off the pace isn't interesting. I don't care that his performance helped the Aces grab 3rd place. Now to be fair. I actually really like the LIV end of season team event. If the merger were to happen, I'd want to build off of that. Don't try to sell me on franchises. I'm never going to care about the Cleeks or Ironheads. But if you took the top 48 finishers in the Fed Ex (Or some similar point based system) drafted them into 12 teams and replicated the LIV team event with the 48 best players? I'd enjoy the hell out of that. Plus I think a draft could be super entertaining. Would Scottie Scheffler with the #1 pick choose the #13th ranked Max Homa or will he grab the #20 ranked Sam Burns because they'rr boys? Does Rory draft Shane Lowry or does he take the top guy still on the board, Sahith Theegala, etc. 

[Titleist99]

3 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

Agree, that why I said "though not optimally managed". The PGAT has too many events. They've been more focused on increased playing opportunities for members than presenting world class tournaments for fans. The NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL cannot just recklessly expand into every city. Moving too fast just dilutes the quality of the product. If the top 100 guys are only playing 25 events a year, you shouldn't host another 20 events w/ the B squad. 

 

 

The PGAT demo is still hugely valuable. But your wearing rose colored glasses if you don't think losing long time sponsors like Farmers, Wells, and Honda isn't a red flag. I've yet to see a WSJ article talking about a bidding war to replace these groups. 

 

 

Not sure I get your point. Why would the PGAT want to control LIV? It has a handful of great golfers but is a complete money pit that no one watches. Wouldn't they be better off getting back those players, their small fan base, and shedding the massive costs of operating 14 $30M tournaments that nobody cares about? 

When I say control It, I mean having PIF as an investment partner that's in the same capacity as SSG with the Tour (Jay Monahan) controlling the board. Jay is presently CEO of the new company PGAT Enterprise. 

 

LIV must exist in order to appease the DOJ. We're talking an additional $3B in revenue for the membership plus access to the LIV tournaments if the PGAT has its way.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm surprised that the deal isn't signed already.

[Pops99]

48 minutes ago, tomjas said:

 

 

In summary, while better than your average tour event, that’s only because some of the world’s best are playing & it’s nowhere near as good as it could be let alone worth the investment 

Laughable. 

[Dutch1008]

13 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Gee, I wonder why they are in the field this week.  What could it be? Spider Cup? No that’s not it. It’s some moving company I think….

Ryder Cup captains…not current playing form.  But then, you already knew that’s why they are there.

 

So an event from last year justifies a spot in a real life professional tournament this year? Lets bring back Paddy and Stricker too? Monte is still playing on the senior tour, let's bring him back as well. Where are Furyk and Weir? At least the President's Cup is being played this year and their participation could be justified under scouting. 

 

I'm looking forward next year Broncos v Saints game when they let Peyton Manning and Drew Brees quarterback this meaningless non-conference game. They're super bowl champs! fan favorites, why not!

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Do we need more NHL / NBA / MLB games? At a certain point, more is just dilutive. With LIV around we all have more golf than ever, does anybody besides the LIV bots think things have improved? 

 

The way I see it, 8 months (Jan thru Aug), 3 tournaments per month, and 4 rounds per tournament, plus 4 more days for ryder/president cup effectively gives me 100 games to watch every year. That's a lot of anything. I'm a Colorado sports fan. I don't watch every Nuggets / Avs / Rockies game. Those are long seasons. I have other interests, hobbies, and responsibilities. 

 

Besides, there will still be plenty of golf to watch. NCAA, LPGA, Champions Tour, plus all the golf below my theoretical "PGA World" tour will still exist. As you said, there has long been a pecking order, my structure is just honest about it. The Corales Puntacana has always been more of a KFT event that PGAT event, we should stop acting like it isn't. 

 

What is the argument for keeping all these events? So more guys can say that they're a PGA Tour card holder? I could easily be talked into expanding the PGA World from the Top 100 to Top 150. The talent gap between #100 and #150 is probably pretty damn small. However, I struggle to accept that the Myrtle Beach Classic, Kentucky Championship, Barracuda Championship, etc are top level professional events worthy of 2 year exemptions for winners etc. Those are minor league events and we simply pretend they aren't. These weren't started to fill an insatiable demand for golf, they were started to give more playing opportunities for members. Market demand should drive the product, not the wishes of the players.   

"What is the argument for keeping all these events? So more guys can say that they're a PGA Tour card holder?"

 

The best argument that I can come up with is that the PGAT has already been paid $7B in Media rights and $2B in international media rights 2022-2030. That's why your logic is humorous.

[Dutch1008]

11 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

C’mon…you’re attempting to talk in circles.  I didn’t ask for a PGA Tour with 750 like MLB.  Just making some aware…because it gets forgotten….that all of these guys are excellent players.  
If you don’t know who they are or don’t think a guy with a 70.96 scoring average last year “deserves” to be there that’s on you.

 

PGA tour is the all star game of professional golf.

 

Where is the cutoff then? There are fantastic players on the DPWT, the Asian Tour, the KFT. Dudes far better at golf than I will be at anything. But there has to be a cutoff somewhere. How many professional golfers can the actual demand for the product support? I think we both agree that there should be development leagues and paths to the tour but what should the top of the food chain look like?

 

We aren't going to back to 2019 with a sustainable ecosystem. We aren't going back to the early 80's with two roughly equal tours. Or maybe we are? Maybe LIV continues to develop and ultimately mirrors the Euro Tour in the 80s w/ Faldo and Seve and Langer. Or maybe LIV just keeps pumping money like sponsors did post Tiger and the PGAT slowly starts to resemble the DPWT?

 

I hope Yassir gets bored and folds up shop but hope isn't a strategy and Yassir may be too stubborn to ever concede. 

[Titleist99]

24 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

I only care about ratings insomuch as they're a driver of what we'll ultimately get to see long term. Everybody has had a show on Netflix or HBO that they loved, but was canceled due to weak ratings. 

 

Regarding LIV, I've watched little but what I have seen gave me whiplash. I'll grant you that a standard PGA event doesn't show nearly enough shots, LIV goes overboard and doesn't let anything breathe. The Masters finds a good balance and I thought the Players last week did great. The PGAT has major room for improvement but watching a LIV event is like listening to a podcast on 3x speed. Its too much. 

 

Sorry, but I just can't get into the week to week Team stuff. Pat Perez firing a Sunday 64 when he's 15 strokes off the pace isn't interesting. I don't care that his performance helped the Aces grab 3rd place. Now to be fair. I actually really like the LIV end of season team event. If the merger were to happen, I'd want to build off of that. Don't try to sell me on franchises. I'm never going to care about the Cleeks or Ironheads. But if you took the top 48 finishers in the Fed Ex (Or some similar point based system) drafted them into 12 teams and replicated the LIV team event with the 48 best players? I'd enjoy the hell out of that. Plus I think a draft could be super entertaining. Would Scottie Scheffler with the #1 pick choose the #13th ranked Max Homa or will he grab the #20 ranked Sam Burns because they'rr boys? Does Rory draft Shane Lowry or does he take the top guy still on the board, Sahith Theegala, etc. 

Just when I start to think that you're going mad, you post something that makes sense...🤣😆 and I can agree with. LOL!

[Dutch1008]

6 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

"What is the argument for keeping all these events? So more guys can say that they're a PGA Tour card holder?"

 

The best argument that I can come up with is that the PGAT has already been paid $7B in Media rights and $2B in international media rights 2022-2030. That's why your logic is humorous.

 

And what exactly is locked down in that media deal? The tour has completely revamped itself each of the last two years. Monahan is already on record saying they had to accelerate purse growth. They were expecting to shell out $12-15 purses by the end of that deal. Not the $20M there pumping today. 

 

If the tour was as confident in their future as you seem to think they should be, they'd have told Yassir to pound sand. Sign the framework agreement to kill the lawsuit, sign up with SSG, then answer every media questions about LIV, "We picked our horse, we're excited about our future, we don't care what LIV is doing". 

[Dutch1008]

3 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Just when I start to think that you're going mad, you post something that makes sense...🤣😆 and I can agree with. LOL!

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 😉 

[bscinstnct]

I’m tellin yous guys the simplest thing is to have 2 tours, ARum won’t give up LIV anyway 

 

And simply put the top 50 pga guys and top 20 liv guys in 4 huge Aramco events 

 

Aramco juices the tours coffers and the tour gets the bulk of the media rights 

 

Otherwise the tour continues with the elevated events for top 70 or so. You can still have turnover since there’s all the other pga tour events, still meritocracy 

 

LIV agrees to fairer recruiting. 
 

Then the Ryder Cup event is a huge money maker. 
 

Rahm, Cam, DJ, Bryson, BK and 7 other top liv guys

 

vs

 

Rory SS Spieth JT Cantaloo etc 

 

Ratings bonanza yo!

[Titleist99]

2 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

And what exactly is locked down in that media deal? The tour has completely revamped itself each of the last two years. Monahan is already on record saying they had to accelerate purse growth. They were expecting to shell out $12-15 purses by the end of that deal. Not the $20M there pumping today. 

 

If the tour was as confident in their future as you seem to think they should be, they'd have told Yassir to pound sand. Sign the framework agreement to kill the lawsuit, sign up with SSG, then answer every media questions about LIV, "We picked our horse, we're excited about our future, we don't care what LIV is doing". 

Is it greed or an opportunity? I don't know.....

[Ole3wiggle]

10 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

"What is the argument for keeping all these events? So more guys can say that they're a PGA Tour card holder?"

 

The best argument that I can come up with is that the PGAT has already been paid $7B in Media rights and $2B in international media rights 2022-2030. That's why your logic is humorous.

Its almost as if, had they created an actually off season for golf.  Which in turn meant having LESS events, making being title sponsor for an event more lucrative for themselves by driving up demand/being more scarce. They wouldn't have had to shuffle everything around at the last minute, being overly reactionary and looking clueless at doing so. They could have made these changes all while the hypotheical LIV threat came. But they didn't because who changes a cash cow before competition comes? 

 

i.e. Kodak, Blockbuster, MySpace, Blackberry. List goes on..

[Dutch1008]

27 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

When I say control It, I mean having PIF as an investment partner that's in the same capacity as SSG with the Tour (Jay Monahan) controlling the board. Jay is presently CEO of the new company PGAT Enterprise. 

 

LIV must exist in order to appease the DOJ. We're talking an additional $3B in revenue for the membership plus access to the LIV tournaments if the PGAT has its way.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm surprised that the deal isn't signed already.

 

I agree that the PGAT wants the PIFs money and would rather have an ally than an enemy. I don't think that is the same as wanting LIV. 

 

I also think the DOJ stuff is simply LIV talking points. The DOJ doesn't seem to have a probably with the NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL having a monopoly on their sports. They seem to encourage it.