LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Neither side wants to see things go this far but the battle seems pretty even at the moment with both sides dug in. 

 

 

How do you see it as "pretty even" at the moment? 

 

From where I sit, LIV has a half-dozen legitimate golfers who only play 14 times a year, pretty much nobody knows when and where or watches, it, and nobody cares. 

 

The PGAT may have some lower-than-normal ratings to start the year but still has plenty of big names competing. Even the non-signature events that have LIV fans bemoaning the lack of big names on the leaderboard absolutely dwarf LIV's viewership. Heck, the one time LIV got decent ratings this year was when the PGAT had a weather stoppage and were broadcasting the past year's tournament--and IIRC still got three times as many viewers as LIV. 

 

It's true that LIV has hurt the PGAT slightly, but they've seemed to do it at absolutely no benefit to themselves... So I don't see it as pretty even.

[bscinstnct]

28 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

How do you see it as "pretty even" at the moment? 

 

From where I sit, LIV has a half-dozen legitimate golfers who only play 14 times a year, pretty much nobody knows when and where or watches, it, and nobody cares. 

 

The PGAT may have some lower-than-normal ratings to start the year but still has plenty of big names competing. Even the non-signature events that have LIV fans bemoaning the lack of big names on the leaderboard absolutely dwarf LIV's viewership. Heck, the one time LIV got decent ratings this year was when the PGAT had a weather stoppage and were broadcasting the past year's tournament--and IIRC still got three times as many viewers as LIV. 

 

It's true that LIV has hurt the PGAT slightly, but they've seemed to do it at absolutely no benefit to themselves... So I don't see it as pretty even.

 

 

Simply from the standpoint of leverage. 
 

LIV never runs out of leverage because their resources are unlimited 

 

Lack of Commercial success seems no deterrent to them continuing to take top 10 players and major winners

 

So, how many major winners and top 10 players leave before the media/networks offer less money/the tours revenues go down and project to go down every year and purse cuts begin? 

 

 

[pingbling23]

35 of the 54 man field were in the top 100 owgr when they went to LIV and that somehow equals 6 legitimate golfers now?

[Titleist84]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

And again, just because someone has a meeting doesn't mean they "want" PIF money - and you don't seem to understand the word "potential".  

 

 

They may not go with PIF as an investor, but you thinking the meeting was about anything but an investment (money) is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I'll come back to watch you and others heads explode when the deal is finalized and LIV players are welcomed back on tour.  

[Titleist99]

28 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

How do you see it as "pretty even" at the moment? 

 

From where I sit, LIV has a half-dozen legitimate golfers who only play 14 times a year, pretty much nobody knows when and where or watches, it, and nobody cares. 

 

The PGAT may have some lower-than-normal ratings to start the year but still has plenty of big names competing. Even the non-signature events that have LIV fans bemoaning the lack of big names on the leaderboard absolutely dwarf LIV's viewership. Heck, the one time LIV got decent ratings this year was when the PGAT had a weather stoppage and were broadcasting the past year's tournament--and IIRC still got three times as many viewers as LIV. 

 

It's true that LIV has hurt the PGAT slightly, but they've seemed to do it at absolutely no benefit to themselves... So I don't see it as pretty even.

I 100% see it the same way as you do. 2024 so far has been snake bitten by weather delays. LIVers are forecasting doom and gloom because the Players Tournament only got 3.53M viewers on the final Sunday despite being one of the most exciting of the year.

 

The other tour barely cracks 200,000 viewers on the free CW .....for those keeping track.

I'm sure signing a player to a $600M contract will pay off down the line.

 

Again, never once has I or anyone I know tuned into a PGAT event because Jon Rahm or Terrell Hatton was in it. I tune in for the drama and stay for the excitement/entertainment.

 

PS/ Anybody miss Harold Varner lll or Jason Kokrak yet.🤣

[Titleist99]

17 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Simply from the standpoint of leverage. 
 

LIV never runs out of leverage because their resources are unlimited 

 

Lack of Commercial success seems no deterrent to them continuing to take top 10 players and major winners

 

So, how many major winners and top 10 players leave before the media/networks offer less money/the tours revenues go down and project to go down every year and purse cuts begin? 

 

 

LIV Golf currently has two of the last four Major Tournament winners John Rahm and Brooks Keopka. Wyndham Clark and Brian Harman chose to stay on the PGAT.

 

How's that poaching of the Major champions working out for the Saudi tour?

[bekgolf]

10 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

They may not go with PIF as an investor, but you thinking the meeting was about anything but an investment (money) is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I'll come back to watch you and others heads explode when the deal is finalized and LIV players are welcomed back on tour.  

 

If those guys are welcomed back it will mean fewer viewers for PGA Tour golf broadcasts.  They left us (the viewers/advertising demographic), it was a decision that turns off any fans they had, let them go off into the sunset and derive happiness counting their money.  I have no use for them.

[betarhoalphadelta]

23 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Simply from the standpoint of leverage. 
 

LIV never runs out of leverage because their resources are unlimited 

 

Lack of Commercial success seems no deterrent to them continuing to take top 10 players and major winners

 

So, how many major winners and top 10 players leave before the media/networks offer less money/the tours revenues go down and project to go down every year and purse cuts begin? 

 

 

They have financial leverage, of course. But they had to dangle half a billion in front of Rahm's nose to get him. And in doing so, signaled to other stars that they shouldn't go cheap--they've inflated costs in their own market to poach players. 

 

Players know what they give up to sell out and go to LIV. No OWGR points. No fans or interest. Restrictive contracts. Being at the beck and call of Greg and ARum. After Rahm, they're not giving up all that for a measly $100M... How many more half-billion dollar checks is ARum and his boss going to write? 

 

To me, the Rahm signing was a hail mary pass, and it didn't connect. 

[bscinstnct]

6 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

LIV Golf currently has two of the last four Major Tournament winners John Rahm and Brooks Keopka. Wyndham Clark and Brian Harman chose to stay on the PGAT.

 

How's that poaching of the Major champions working out for the Saudi tour?

 

Why are you asking me? I’ve posted the actual Google data showing interest keeps declining ; )

 

But, and this is in response to @betarhoalphadelta post above as well….

 

It won’t prevent PIF from spending 1.5-2 billion next year to sign Cantlay, Xander, Sahith, Homa, and Hovland, and Finau

 

Lets not pretend this can’t happen

[bekgolf]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

It won’t prevent PIF from spending 1.5-2 billion next year to sign Cantlay, Xander, Sahith, Homa, and Hovland, and Finau

 

Lets not pretend this can’t happen

 

100% true and it's the reason not to appease PIF.  Their goal is to change what the PGA Tour is and has been by turning it into a feeder tour for the fat cat premier league.

 

I don't want the fat cat premier league.  If it happens it won't gain viewers but it will end something I really like which is the PGA Tour.

[Titleist99]

5 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Why are you asking me? I’ve posted the actual Google data showing interest keeps declining ; )

 

But, and this is in response to @betarhoalphadelta post above as well….

 

It won’t prevent PIF from spending 1.5-2 billion next year to sign Cantlay, Xander, Sahith, Homa, and Hovland, and Finau

 

Lets not pretend this can’t happen

Leave Sahith and Homa......they can have the rest.🤣

 

Sure it can happen. the PGAT will just have to make some more stars.

[Titleist84]

3 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

If those guys are welcomed back it will mean fewer viewers for PGA Tour golf broadcasts.  They left us (the viewers/advertising demographic), it was a decision that turns off any fans they had, let them go off into the sunset and derive happiness counting their money.  I have no use for them.

 

This cancel culture is getting old.  People leave their jobs for more money all of the time, this is nothing new. I don't blame them for leaving and the players that stayed should be thanking them for the purse increases.  Even Rory who was the most outspoken against LIV has done a near 180 on the issue.

[bscinstnct]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

 

100% true and it's the reason not to appease PIF.  Their goal is to change what the PGA Tour is and has been by turning it into a feeder tour for the fat cat premier league.

 

I don't want the fat cat premier league.  If it happens it won't gain viewers but it will end something I really like which is the PGA Tour.

 

It’s not appeasing it’s dealing 

 

Here is a deal I could accept,

 

PIF agrees to no longer offer huge sign ons. Players can join simply based on the purses and schedule. Likewise, LIV has no contracts and any new LIV players can come back and join the tour. 
 

PIF agrees to have 2/3 of its events outside the US 
 

PIF makes a multi billion 💰 investment in the tour so it has an interest in its success

 

The tour agrees to 2-3 Aramco events with the top end of both fields playing. Aramco funds the purses 

 

Both tours play an RC type event. 
 

Now, I know some here despise LIV and the players who left but I’d love to see the top liv guys playing against the top tour guys in season events and an RC wheat. 
 

 

[bekgolf]

1 minute ago, Titleist84 said:

 

This cancel culture is getting old.  People leave their jobs for more money all of the time, this is nothing new. I don't blame them for leaving and the players that stayed should be thanking them for the purse increases.  Even Rory who was the most outspoken against LIV has done a near 180 on the issue.

 

I have the right to watch what and whom I choose.  Those guys left their viewers for money, that's fine but don't expect the fan to watch anymore.  Remember they left us and without the fans they never would be able to play golf for a living.   

 

Cancel culture is a very strong term.  In the past I've said that it's possible for those guys to come back but it would take an act of contrition on a large scale.

[bekgolf]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

It’s not appeasing it’s dealing 

 

Here is a deal I could accept,

 

PIF agrees to no longer offer huge sign ons. Players can join simply based on the purses and schedule. Likewise, LIV has no contracts and any new LIV players can come back and join the tour. 
 

PIF agrees to have 2/3 of its events outside the US 
 

PIF makes a multi billion 💰 investment in the tour so it has an interest in its success

 

The tour agrees to 2-3 Aramco events with the top end of both fields playing. Aramco funds the purses 

 

Both tours play an RC type event. 
 

Now, I know some here despise LIV and the players who left but I’d love to see the top liv guys playing against the top tour guys in season events and an RC wheat. 
 

 

 

That deal means the end of the PGA tour as we know it.  If it happens it happens, there is little I can do about it.  I won't be watching it but those guys don't need viewers because they have an unlimited money supply.

[Titleist99]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

It’s not appeasing it’s dealing 

 

Here is a deal I could accept,

 

PIF agrees to no longer offer huge sign ons. Players can join simply based on the purses and schedule. Likewise, LIV has no contracts and any new LIV players can come back and join the tour. 
 

PIF agrees to have 2/3 of its events outside the US 
 

PIF makes a multi billion 💰 investment in the tour so it has an interest in its success

 

The tour agrees to 2-3 Aramco events with the top end of both fields playing. Aramco funds the purses 

 

Both tours play an RC type event. 
 

Now, I know some here despise LIV and the players who left but I’d love to see the top liv guys playing against the top tour guys in season events and an RC wheat. 
 

 

There will be an agreement and we will see some version of your plan. IMO

[Hawkeye77]

43 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

They may not go with PIF as an investor, but you thinking the meeting was about anything but an investment (money) is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I'll come back to watch you and others heads explode when the deal is finalized and LIV players are welcomed back on tour.  

Change the goalposts - fine. 
 

Of course, it was about a potential investment. For the third and obvious time, that doesn’t mean the Tour wants PIF’s money. 

[Titleist84]

6 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

I have the right to watch what and whom I choose.  Those guys left their viewers for money, that's fine but don't expect the fan to watch anymore.  Remember they left us and without the fans they never would be able to play golf for a living.   

 

Cancel culture is a very strong term.  In the past I've said that it's possible for those guys to come back but it would take an act of contrition on a large scale.

Sure you can watch whatever you choose.  I suspect it will be a short term boycott by most who say they will stop watching.

 

As for cancel culture, I stand by what I said.  

[bscinstnct]

5 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

That deal means the end of the PGA tour as we know it.  If it happens it happens, there is little I can do about it.  I won't be watching it but those guys don't need viewers because they have an unlimited money supply.

 

Oh you’ll watch. 

You’ll throw cheesy poofs at Bryson on your 📺 

 

But you’ll watch 🤣 🍻 

[bekgolf]

Just now, Titleist84 said:

Sure you can watch whatever you choose.  I suspect it will be a short term boycott by most who say they will stop watching.

 

As for cancel culture, I stand by what I said.  

 

Really, something changes to the extent that I don't like it anymore so I don't participate and it's cancel culture?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

18 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

 

This cancel culture is getting old.  People leave their jobs for more money all of the time, this is nothing new. I don't blame them for leaving and the players that stayed should be thanking them for the purse increases.  Even Rory who was the most outspoken against LIV has done a near 180 on the issue.

This has nothing to do with cancel culture. But hey if it makes you feel better go ahead and believe that 😂

[bekgolf]

2 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Oh you’ll watch. 

You’ll throw cheesy poofs at Bryson on your 📺 

 

But you’ll watch 🤣 🍻 

 

Bryson and Rahm are the two I miss.  Loved watching those guys play, such intensity in Rahm and Bryson was changing things with innovation.

[Titleist84]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Change the goalposts - fine. 
 

Of course, it was about a potential investment. For the third and obvious time, that doesn’t mean the Tour wants PIF’s money. 

How is that changing the goal post?  Yes they want the money, what they dont want are the strings attached that come with the money.  

 

There, happy now?

[Titleist99]

21 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

 

This cancel culture is getting old.  People leave their jobs for more money all of the time, this is nothing new. I don't blame them for leaving and the players that stayed should be thanking them for the purse increases.  Even Rory who was the most outspoken against LIV has done a near 180 on the issue.

People do leave their jobs all the time, but few is welcomed back with a ticket tape parade.

[bscinstnct]

3 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

Bryson and Rahm are the two I miss.  Loved watching those guys play, such intensity in Rahm and Bryson was changing things with innovation.

 

Imagine Tiger vs Greg as captains in PGA vs LIV,

 

World 🌎 Cup yo!!

 

At Bethpage Black 😳

 

Ratings bonanza

[Titleist84]

3 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

Really, something changes to the extent that I don't like it anymore so I don't participate and it's cancel culture?

Yes, here's the definition.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cancel culture#:~:text=For those of you who,Twitter%2C Instagram%2C or Facebook.

[jimecherry]

5 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

People do leave their jobs all the time, but few is welcomed back with a ticket tape parade.

not everyone deserves the lebron james treatment ;}

[Hawkeye77]

7 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

How is that changing the goal post?  Yes they want the money, what they dont want are the strings attached that come with the money.  

 

There, happy now?

Moving them again.  
 

They don’t want PIF’s money, which is what you keep saying. 
 

Let it go, lol. 

[Titleist99]

9 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

Bryson and Rahm are the two I miss.  Loved watching those guys play, such intensity in Rahm and Bryson was changing things with innovation.

Just to counter that.....Bryson's shtick got pretty old to me, but he turned it into a $100M+ contract with the gullible Saudis. I tired of Rahm complaining every time he missed a putt and complaining of not getting any respect. So, for everyone that misses the pair there's some who say good riddance.

[bekgolf]

3 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

Yes, here's the definition.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cancel culture#:~:text=For those of you who,Twitter%2C Instagram%2C or Facebook.

 

The only thing in common with that toxic definition is that this discussion is on social media.