LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[italianstallion]

4 hours ago, tomjas said:

Here’s the thing that American PGAT fans don’t want to recognise 

 

We’re pissed about how the PGAT has treated our own tours for years 

 

That doesn’t mean that we support the Saudis 

 

It ain’t hard 

 

This has been said a number of times by a number of different people in 504 pages, but since you're new to the discussion this week I'll restate it:

 

The US is the biggest market for consuming golf content in the world. It's not the biggest population no, it's the biggest market. Yes, China and India have significantly more people living in them, but the LIV argument that it's going to only take one generation to convert these population figures into viewers is beyond a fantasy. There's a class system that exists in both countries and unless something significantly changes I don't think people who live in places like Dharavi are going to huddle around the television or radio to witness Pat Perez putt out for an 80 anytime soon.

 

But if you want to play the population game, in the US we've got two states here with more people living in them than people in your country. That's not a knock against where you live (I've been, fantastic country), but we're a first world country with a populace that has more disposable income than anyone but the Saudi royal family. It doesn't mean I'm sitting here chanting "USA! USA!" like we're the best country in the world; I'm just stating the facts as to why interest in the game of golf has grown faster here in the past 100 years than anywhere else, and thus the reason why the PGA TOUR was able to grow and offer the purses they did. Don't look to the PGA TOUR for the mistreatment, look to the Adam Scott's and Jason Day's who wanted to play for the purses the TOUR offered. And before you argue "well that's what LIV is doing, they're just paying people more so why are people upset," understand that the PGA TOUR got here like any other successful capitalist business has: decades of organic business growth selling a product people want to consume. The PIF is an irrational actor with unlimited funds attempting to buy the market with a product very few want, for reasons that have nothing to do with even caring about that product to begin with. That's the rub.

[hackeraz]

12 hours ago, bobfoster said:

🤣 "Let's not kid ourselves". Seriously? LIV has a handful of the top, a whole pile of has-beens on the downhill side of their careers, and they fill out their ranks with never-were's. Same guys playing each other every week, in shorts, to rock music (but they Tweet their breathless excitement!!!! Pretty sure they are contractually obligated to, but, y'know, still).

 

It's an exhibition tour. If you prefer to watch it instead of actual professional golf, good on ya! But "let's not kid ourselves". It's ratings on CW hover right around those of re-runs of the Gilmore Girls and America's Funniest Animals. And on YT? Way more people care about who the Kardashian du jour is dating than care about freaking Talor Gooch, or how the "Drooling Money-Grubbers" (or whatever his "team name" is) are doing. 

 

Face it. You can love LIV if you want, but the verdict is sorta in. It is in the viewership numbers. This simply isn't considered a serious golf tour. Everyone sees it for what it is. The Saudis trying to buy a global sport for intentions that have nothing to do with the good of the game. They have massive egos and an incredible sense of demeaning entitlement. And they started it by giving obscene amounts of money to two guys with equally massive egos and senses of entitlement - Norman and Mickelson - that had a deep and very public loathing of the PGAT. I mean, seriously, they saw a dude that commissioned a huge bronze statue of himself (do you get how psychopathic, how juvenile, how deeply in need of therapy someone like that is?), and another with absurd gambling debts, and figured heck, we can get these narcissistic losers for less than the price of buying another boring London hotel.

 

They were correct. 

 

I personally hope the guys that decided to take the bribes, become indentured servants to the PIF, are never allowed back on the PGAT. Let them pay the price, and wallow in obscurity. There is a whole new generation of golfers emerging on the Tour, and they are amazing to watch. 

 

If I want to watch an exhibition tour? Really, watching Borgmeier and Berkshire blast 420 drives (to the same irritating rock music) on the WLD is way more interesting than watching flippin' Sergio Garcia and Louis Oosthuizen play for participation trophies. (Don't Blink!!!! I mean, really?)

 

Let's not kid ourselves. LIV may be interesting to some (mostly 20-somethings it appears - resonates with a lot of TopGolf folks) but it ain't real, professional golf. It just isn't. You can assert whatever you want to on discussion boards on the internet, but at the end of the day professional sports is merely entertainment. It is about eyeballs, viewership. That is what the judge of "quality" is. The XFL is not the NFL. Women's soccer (that I happen to love, and think is slightly more interesting then men's soccer) still gets a fraction of the viewership as the men's World Cup.  And like it or not, LIV just ain't even remotely in the league of the PGAT. That's just what the sheer, raw numbers are saying. 

 

LIV and PIF, Norman and Mickelson, shot their shot. And it didn't work. 

 

And I'll tell you something else (that you won't want to hear). I've done business with the Saudis. They are not unsophisticated. If you don't think they don't have a (quiet) exit strategy mapped out (just in case), you don't know business. These are coldly rational people. They have a purpose in everything they do. But they are not rich, and do not stay rich, because they are not willing to cut their losses when the time comes. And if you don't think some of the top players that went to LIV aren't starting to have some regrets ... well, some of them are already starting to hint about that.

 

Speak in derogatory terms about Valspar if you wish, but the long term future of golf is in some of the guys playing there, not in the guys that chose short term participation fortunes over grinding it out and taking their place in the game's traditions - that the Saudi's have proven themselves to be be not only indifferent to, but willing to disrupt for what is clearly their own self-serving, short term purposes. 

Ah, the eloquent lament of the traditionalist golfer, bemoaning the rise of LIV as if it were an invasion of extraterrestrial golf enthusiasts armed with selfie sticks and dollar bills. Your disdain for LIV and its cast of characters reads like a sonnet to the sanctity of the PGAT, but allow me to tee off with a counterpoint or two.

Sure, LIV might not have the historical prestige of Augusta or the panache of the British Open, but to dismiss it as a mere sideshow is to overlook its evolutionary potential. Like the rebel offspring of a prestigious lineage, LIV dares to shake up the golfing world, injecting a shot of adrenaline into a game often accused of being as exciting as watching paint dry (albeit on impeccably manicured greens).

And while you wax poetic about the "good ol' days" of traditional golf, let's not forget that even the stodgiest of institutions need a breath of fresh air now and then. LIV might not be everyone's cup of tee, but its audacious attempt to modernize the sport deserves at least a polite golf clap.

As for your Saudi conspiracy theories and tales of narcissistic bronze statues, well, let's just say that every sport has its share of colorful characters and shady dealings. It's par for the course, if you will.

In the end, whether you prefer your golf served with a side of tradition or a splash of controversy, one thing remains undeniable: golf, in all its forms, is a game of passion, skill, and occasionally, a healthy dose of drama. So, whether you're rooting for the underdogs at Valspar or tuning in to LIV for a taste of the unconventional, just remember to keep your eye on the ball—and maybe turn down the rock music a notch or two. After all, there's nothing worse than a slice with a soundtrack.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

29 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

 

This has been said a number of times by a number of different people in 504 pages, but since you're new to the discussion this week I'll restate it:

 

The US is the biggest market for consuming golf content in the world. It's not the biggest population no, it's the biggest market. Yes, China and India have significantly more people living in them, but the LIV argument that it's going to only take one generation to convert these population figures into viewers is beyond a fantasy. There's a class system that exists in both countries and unless something significantly changes I don't think people who live in places like Dharavi are going to huddle around the television or radio to witness Pat Perez putt out for an 80 anytime soon.

 

But if you want to play the population game, in the US we've got two states here with more people living in them than people in your country. That's not a knock against where you live (I've been, fantastic country), but we're a first world country with a populace that has more disposable income than anyone but the Saudi royal family. It doesn't mean I'm sitting here chanting "USA! USA!" like we're the best country in the world; I'm just stating the facts as to why interest in the game of golf has grown faster here in the past 100 years than anywhere else, and thus the reason why the PGA TOUR was able to grow and offer the purses they did. Don't look to the PGA TOUR for the mistreatment, look to the Adam Scott's and Jason Day's who wanted to play for the purses the TOUR offered. And before you argue "well that's what LIV is doing, they're just paying people more so why are people upset," understand that the PGA TOUR got here like any other successful capitalist business has: decades of organic business growth selling a product people want to consume. The PIF is an irrational actor with unlimited funds attempting to buy the market with a product very few want, for reasons that have nothing to do with even caring about that product to begin with. That's the rub.

^^^♥️♥️♥️^^^ Very well stated! 

 

I'm also 100% sure that no one is against a competing league against the PGAT. I'm 100% certain the resentment comes from fact that it's government funded without regard for P&L. Plus they aren't trying to grow organically but just poach off the success of others. 

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

100%. Now you're playin' chess.🤣

 

Nawww

 

Everybody know DJ is the true 5-D chess master♟️ 🤣

 

 

[Titleist99]

30 minutes ago, hackeraz said:

Ah, the eloquent lament of the traditionalist golfer, bemoaning the rise of LIV as if it were an invasion of extraterrestrial golf enthusiasts armed with selfie sticks and dollar bills. Your disdain for LIV and its cast of characters reads like a sonnet to the sanctity of the PGAT, but allow me to tee off with a counterpoint or two.

Sure, LIV might not have the historical prestige of Augusta or the panache of the British Open, but to dismiss it as a mere sideshow is to overlook its evolutionary potential. Like the rebel offspring of a prestigious lineage, LIV dares to shake up the golfing world, injecting a shot of adrenaline into a game often accused of being as exciting as watching paint dry (albeit on impeccably manicured greens).

And while you wax poetic about the "good ol' days" of traditional golf, let's not forget that even the stodgiest of institutions need a breath of fresh air now and then. LIV might not be everyone's cup of tee, but its audacious attempt to modernize the sport deserves at least a polite golf clap.

As for your Saudi conspiracy theories and tales of narcissistic bronze statues, well, let's just say that every sport has its share of colorful characters and shady dealings. It's par for the course, if you will.

In the end, whether you prefer your golf served with a side of tradition or a splash of controversy, one thing remains undeniable: golf, in all its forms, is a game of passion, skill, and occasionally, a healthy dose of drama. So, whether you're rooting for the underdogs at Valspar or tuning in to LIV for a taste of the unconventional, just remember to keep your eye on the ball—and maybe turn down the rock music a notch or two. After all, there's nothing worse than a slice with a soundtrack.

Hmmm......that's your counter to SA trying to buy golf and change it to a team sport, while trying to bankrupt the PGAT?

 

You say, Golf needs a shake-up, really!?!

[hackeraz]

2 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Hmmm......that's your counter to SA trying to buy golf and change it to a team sport, while trying to bankrupt the PGAT?

 

You say, Golf needs a shake-up, really!?!

Nah, just my ChatGPT counter to that book I read above. Just a little fun 😉 

[Titleist99]

10 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

^^^♥️♥️♥️^^^ Very well stated! 

 

I'm also 100% sure that no one is against a competing league against the PGAT. I'm 100% certain the resentment comes from fact that it's government funded without regard for P&L. Plus they aren't trying to grow organically but just poach off the success of others. 

Here's SA game plan:

 

Steal the idea from the PGL- check

Poach the players from the PGAT-check

Buy the game of golf and turn it into a team sport-check

 

Did they really think that PGAT fans would go quietly into the night? 🤣

[ahenderX]

40 minutes ago, hackeraz said:

Ah, the eloquent lament of the traditionalist golfer, bemoaning the rise of LIV as if it were an invasion of extraterrestrial golf enthusiasts armed with selfie sticks and dollar bills. Your disdain for LIV and its cast of characters reads like a sonnet to the sanctity of the PGAT, but allow me to tee off with a counterpoint or two.

Sure, LIV might not have the historical prestige of Augusta or the panache of the British Open, but to dismiss it as a mere sideshow is to overlook its evolutionary potential. Like the rebel offspring of a prestigious lineage, LIV dares to shake up the golfing world, injecting a shot of adrenaline into a game often accused of being as exciting as watching paint dry (albeit on impeccably manicured greens).

And while you wax poetic about the "good ol' days" of traditional golf, let's not forget that even the stodgiest of institutions need a breath of fresh air now and then. LIV might not be everyone's cup of tee, but its audacious attempt to modernize the sport deserves at least a polite golf clap.

As for your Saudi conspiracy theories and tales of narcissistic bronze statues, well, let's just say that every sport has its share of colorful characters and shady dealings. It's par for the course, if you will.

In the end, whether you prefer your golf served with a side of tradition or a splash of controversy, one thing remains undeniable: golf, in all its forms, is a game of passion, skill, and occasionally, a healthy dose of drama. So, whether you're rooting for the underdogs at Valspar or tuning in to LIV for a taste of the unconventional, just remember to keep your eye on the ball—and maybe turn down the rock music a notch or two. After all, there's nothing worse than a slice with a soundtrack.

LIV is modernizing golf? Maybe you can include a few details as to what this means.

[hackeraz]

1 minute ago, ahenderX said:

LIV is modernizing golf? Maybe you can include a few details as to what this means.

LIV Golf Investments, commonly referred to as LIV Golf, is indeed making waves in the golfing world with its innovative approach. LIV Golf is known for its efforts to modernize the sport of golf in various ways, aiming to attract new audiences and engage existing fans in novel ways. Here are a few key aspects of how LIV Golf is modernizing golf:

Format Innovation: LIV Golf has introduced new tournament formats aimed at enhancing excitement and viewer engagement. This includes team-based competitions, shorter formats, and innovative scoring systems designed to make the game more dynamic and accessible to a wider audience.

Technology Integration: Embracing technology is a cornerstone of LIV Golf's modernization efforts. This involves incorporating advanced analytics, tracking technologies, and virtual reality experiences to provide fans with deeper insights into the game and create immersive viewing experiences.

Global Expansion: LIV Golf is spearheading efforts to globalize the sport by hosting events in various countries and regions outside traditional golfing strongholds. This expansion aims to introduce golf to new markets and cultivate a more diverse and inclusive fan base.

Player Engagement: LIV Golf places a strong emphasis on enhancing the visibility and marketability of players. Through various initiatives such as social media engagement, player-driven content, and fan interactions, LIV Golf aims to showcase the personalities of golfers and create compelling narratives around the sport.

Fan Experience: Improving the fan experience is a top priority for LIV Golf. This involves initiatives such as enhancing broadcast production quality, introducing fan-friendly initiatives at tournaments, and leveraging digital platforms to provide interactive and personalized experiences for fans.

Overall, LIV Golf's approach to modernizing the sport encompasses a broad range of strategies aimed at revitalizing golf and ensuring its relevance in a rapidly evolving sports landscape.

[italianstallion]

2 minutes ago, hackeraz said:

LIV Golf Investments, commonly referred to as LIV Golf, is indeed making waves in the golfing world with its innovative approach. LIV Golf is known for its efforts to modernize the sport of golf in various ways, aiming to attract new audiences and engage existing fans in novel ways. Here are a few key aspects of how LIV Golf is modernizing golf:

Format Innovation: LIV Golf has introduced new tournament formats aimed at enhancing excitement and viewer engagement. This includes team-based competitions, shorter formats, and innovative scoring systems designed to make the game more dynamic and accessible to a wider audience.

Technology Integration: Embracing technology is a cornerstone of LIV Golf's modernization efforts. This involves incorporating advanced analytics, tracking technologies, and virtual reality experiences to provide fans with deeper insights into the game and create immersive viewing experiences.

Global Expansion: LIV Golf is spearheading efforts to globalize the sport by hosting events in various countries and regions outside traditional golfing strongholds. This expansion aims to introduce golf to new markets and cultivate a more diverse and inclusive fan base.

Player Engagement: LIV Golf places a strong emphasis on enhancing the visibility and marketability of players. Through various initiatives such as social media engagement, player-driven content, and fan interactions, LIV Golf aims to showcase the personalities of golfers and create compelling narratives around the sport.

Fan Experience: Improving the fan experience is a top priority for LIV Golf. This involves initiatives such as enhancing broadcast production quality, introducing fan-friendly initiatives at tournaments, and leveraging digital platforms to provide interactive and personalized experiences for fans.

Overall, LIV Golf's approach to modernizing the sport encompasses a broad range of strategies aimed at revitalizing golf and ensuring its relevance in a rapidly evolving sports landscape.

 

Not sure I'm a fan of using ChatGPT on the boards.

[Hawkeye77]

12 minutes ago, hackeraz said:

LIV Golf Investments, commonly referred to as LIV Golf, is indeed making waves in the golfing world with its innovative approach. LIV Golf is known for its efforts to modernize the sport of golf in various ways, aiming to attract new audiences and engage existing fans in novel ways. Here are a few key aspects of how LIV Golf is modernizing golf:

Format Innovation: LIV Golf has introduced new tournament formats aimed at enhancing excitement and viewer engagement. This includes team-based competitions, shorter formats, and innovative scoring systems designed to make the game more dynamic and accessible to a wider audience.

Technology Integration: Embracing technology is a cornerstone of LIV Golf's modernization efforts. This involves incorporating advanced analytics, tracking technologies, and virtual reality experiences to provide fans with deeper insights into the game and create immersive viewing experiences.

Global Expansion: LIV Golf is spearheading efforts to globalize the sport by hosting events in various countries and regions outside traditional golfing strongholds. This expansion aims to introduce golf to new markets and cultivate a more diverse and inclusive fan base.

Player Engagement: LIV Golf places a strong emphasis on enhancing the visibility and marketability of players. Through various initiatives such as social media engagement, player-driven content, and fan interactions, LIV Golf aims to showcase the personalities of golfers and create compelling narratives around the sport.

Fan Experience: Improving the fan experience is a top priority for LIV Golf. This involves initiatives such as enhancing broadcast production quality, introducing fan-friendly initiatives at tournaments, and leveraging digital platforms to provide interactive and personalized experiences for fans.

Overall, LIV Golf's approach to modernizing the sport encompasses a broad range of strategies aimed at revitalizing golf and ensuring its relevance in a rapidly evolving sports landscape.

I really don't think we need cut and pasted talking points this many years into the "game" the exhibition league is playing.

[bobfoster]

20 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

 

Not sure I'm a fan of using ChatGPT on the boards.

Yeah. That looked straight out of ChatGPT (or some other similar LLM). In fact, absolutely perfect grammar, spelling, and punctuation is one of the ways you can tell. (ChatGPT is known for that - humans rarely write error free prose.) 

 

I use ChatGPT in business, makes some work far more efficient. But would never use it for casual discussions.

 

I would mention that anyone who asks it something like "How is the LIV golf tour modernizing golf?", might also then ask it "How is the LIV golf tour damaging golf?" It will produce an equally compelling (and perfectly written) response. 

 

But I will not do that here. IMO, discussion boards should be between people asserting opinions and ideas, it should not be simply different people cut and pasting the output of different ChatGPT queries. That isn't a discussion. 

Edited March 22 by bobfoster

[Hawkeye77]

5 hours ago, tomjas said:

Sure mate

 

Name one thing I have said in support of LIV

 

 

LOL, because I don't care that much and don't want to waste the time, there is this (one example of many) you were on about just a very few posts/minutes before that one:

 

"If you prefer to watch Valspar or the Singapore event this week then that’s your prerogative but let’s not kid ourselves that they have better quality fields than LIV as that claim truly is laughable"

Edited March 22 by Hawkeye77

[italianstallion]

8 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

Yeah. That looked straight out of ChatGPT (or some other similar LLM). In fact, absolutely perfect grammar, spelling, and punctuation is one of the ways you can tell. (ChatGPT is known for that - humans rarely write error free prose.) 

 

I use ChatGPT in business, makes some work far more efficient. But would never use it for casual discussions.

 

I would mention that anyone who asks it something like "How is the LIV golf tour modernizing golf?", might also then ask it "How is the LIV golf tour damaging golf?" It will produce an equally compelling (and perfectly written) response. 

Another telling sign: it was posted a minute after the post it was replying to.

 

Not sure if the poster was truly trying to be funny by using ChatGPT or not, but I don’t think AI responses should have a place here. 

[hackeraz]

4 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

Another telling sign: it was posted a minute after the post it was replying to.

 

Not sure if the poster was truly trying to be funny by using ChatGPT or not, but I don’t think AI responses should have a place here. 

Let's all simmer down and have a laugh for a minute. If I offended anyone, I apologize but it was a tongue in cheek response to a very long-winded post which was going to be a one and done. Then when another poster completely glanced past the admission it deserved a follow up.  You have my assurance this is not AI massaged and can all go back to arguing amongst yourselves. 

Edited March 22 by hackeraz

[Togatown22]

1 hour ago, hackeraz said:

Ah, the eloquent lament of the traditionalist golfer, bemoaning the rise of LIV as if it were an invasion of extraterrestrial golf enthusiasts armed with selfie sticks and dollar bills. Your disdain for LIV and its cast of characters reads like a sonnet to the sanctity of the PGAT, but allow me to tee off with a counterpoint or two.

Sure, LIV might not have the historical prestige of Augusta or the panache of the British Open, but to dismiss it as a mere sideshow is to overlook its evolutionary potential. Like the rebel offspring of a prestigious lineage, LIV dares to shake up the golfing world, injecting a shot of adrenaline into a game often accused of being as exciting as watching paint dry (albeit on impeccably manicured greens).

And while you wax poetic about the "good ol' days" of traditional golf, let's not forget that even the stodgiest of institutions need a breath of fresh air now and then. LIV might not be everyone's cup of tee, but its audacious attempt to modernize the sport deserves at least a polite golf clap.

As for your Saudi conspiracy theories and tales of narcissistic bronze statues, well, let's just say that every sport has its share of colorful characters and shady dealings. It's par for the course, if you will.

In the end, whether you prefer your golf served with a side of tradition or a splash of controversy, one thing remains undeniable: golf, in all its forms, is a game of passion, skill, and occasionally, a healthy dose of drama. So, whether you're rooting for the underdogs at Valspar or tuning in to LIV for a taste of the unconventional, just remember to keep your eye on the ball—and maybe turn down the rock music a notch or two. After all, there's nothing worse than a slice with a soundtrack.

This "shot of adrenaline" you speak of. . . Where is it?  There's no competition in LIV.  It's an exhibition.  It's the biggest issue I have as a former athlete, now fan of sport and competition.  I just don't see how anyone who really enjoys watching athletes compete under pressure could use the word "adrenaline" in the same sentence of LIV.  It's a complete non-starter for me.  

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, italianstallion said:

 

Not sure I'm a fan of using ChatGPT on the boards.

 

It's like I'm in the chatgpt episode of South Park.  Life imitates art, lol.

[italianstallion]

33 minutes ago, hackeraz said:

Let's all simmer down and have a laugh for a minute. If I offended anyone, I apologize but it was a tongue in cheek response to a very long-winded post which was going to be a one and done. Then when another poster completely glanced past the admission it deserved a follow up.  You have my assurance this is not AI massaged and can all go back to arguing amongst yourselves. 

 

Not to sound all "get off my lawn" but the applications of AI have a time and a place. In a thread that I feel already has had its fair share of bot/AI responses scattered throughout I'm just trying convey that I personally am not a fan of what a future filled with AI generated responses to a discussion topic looks like.

[hackeraz]

Just now, italianstallion said:

 

Not to sound all "get off my lawn" but the applications of AI have a time and a place. In a thread that I feel already has had its fair share of bot/AI responses scattered throughout I'm just trying convey that I personally am not a fan of what a future filled with AI generated responses to a discussion topic looks like.

That's cool and I get it but it's everywhere already and I promise you there's most likely plenty of other posters that are using it even on the last few pages. I used it as a humorous aside as this thread needs some of it. *these are my original thoughts and in no way shaped by the use of AI. 

[Hawkeye77]

3 minutes ago, hackeraz said:

That's cool and I get it but it's everywhere already and I promise you there's most likely plenty of other posters that are using it even on the last few pages.  

Uh - no. 

[Golferpaul]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:55 PM, Titleist99 said:

Total nonsense, most wouldn't even notice that they're gone until they log on to this fine site. It's refreshing not to hear them whine and complain..

 

The Players Championship was great with all the drama and excitement of a best selling novel. Next, you'll be complaining about the weak field. 🤣

Without Johnson, Rahm, DeChambeau, Reed, Koepka, and Smith it was indeed a much weaker than normal field.

 

Stop hating and recognize those six players are world-class.

Edited March 22 by Golferpaul

[Golferpaul]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:57 PM, Shilgy said:

Who is this Rohm guy you find sooo interesting?  🤣 /s

Jon Rahm's brother from another mother.

[Titleist84]

This could've all been avoided if the PGA Tour just gave exemptions to play in off week LIV events.  Since they have a near monopoly on the World Golf Rankings they had no fear of losing players permanently. 

 

But instead they black listed players that chose LIV and then copied off of LIV (smaller fields and higher purses).  

 

What's even worse is they black listed the players for "taking the money" and now the PGA Tour is in talks with PIF to "take the money".

[RobS]

7 hours ago, beluga99 said:

My query was, how are the investors going to get a return? $1.5b is significant from SSG. How are they making that back? I honestly don’t know, so would be keen for the more business savvy to educate me. Especially if they can’t get the eyeballs outside the Majors, of which I believe the PGA Tour does not control. 

With most sports, the real money is in television.  This is speculation on my part but I imagine that SSG has eyes on creating a PGA Tour Network.  Most of the principals of SSG such as Henry, Ricketts and Cohen own sports franchises and their broadcast networks, NESN, SNY and Marquee for example.  The clearest path to increasing TV revenue for the PGA Tour is bringing the broadcast in house and this model is an area of expertise for SSG.  The networks pay $700m a year to the PGA Tour so it's obviously profitable enough for the networks to pay that price.  CBS, for example, has a 5YA net profit margin of 20% (network wide, I'm not sure how well golf specifically does). The PGA Tour already pre-packages most of the advertising for the networks. Effectively, if they take the broadcast in house, they take keep all of the advertising money, broadcast rights, plus the network cable fee.  They'd also have an opportunity to create additional add revenue generating programming.  Perhaps they will be able to take over, generate and increase event revenue but golf doesn't much lend itself to that on a large scale being spread out over 100 plus acres.  There has been talk of golf real estate acquisition but I'm not really buying that is a significant source of revenue.  It's not an area of expertise for SSG and if they were interested in the golf real estate business, they didn't need to become investment partners with the Tour at $3b to do so.  They could have just deployed that capital into a REIT.

[italianstallion]

9 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

This could've all been avoided if the PGA Tour just gave exemptions to play in off week LIV events.  Since they have a near monopoly on the World Golf Rankings they had no fear of losing players permanently. 

 

But instead they black listed players that chose LIV and then copied off of LIV (smaller fields and higher purses).  

 

What's even worse is they black listed the players for "taking the money" and now the PGA Tour is in talks with PIF to "take the money".

 

The OWGR hat didn't drop until a couple weeks ago, when Greg 'dropped' LIV's pursuit of gaining ranking points. So your first statement doesn't accurately reflect the timeline of events.

 

I agree with the bolded point though. What's to be seen is if this was a tactic to shake the lawsuits or if its actually going to come to fruition.

[bekgolf]

8 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

This could've all been avoided if the PGA Tour just gave exemptions to play in off week LIV events.  Since they have a near monopoly on the World Golf Rankings they had no fear of losing players permanently. 

 

But instead they black listed players that chose LIV and then copied off of LIV (smaller fields and higher purses).  

 

What's even worse is they black listed the players for "taking the money" and now the PGA Tour is in talks with PIF to "take the money".

 

It could of been avoided by Liv starting from scratch.  They could of started small tours to identify talent and bigger ones to further identify the outstanding talent.  Once that was done they could have a Liv tour that attracted golfers and fans. 

 

They didn't choose to start that way, they chose to disrupt everything in professional golf and demand to be part of what took the PGA Tour a half century to develop.  That's why things are like they are right now, because of the actions Liv took.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

27 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

 

The OWGR hat didn't drop until a couple weeks ago, when Greg 'dropped' LIV's pursuit of gaining ranking points. So your first statement doesn't accurately reflect the timeline of events.

 

I agree with the bolded point though. What's to be seen is if this was a tactic to shake the lawsuits or if its actually going to come to fruition.

How did they blacklist players for taking the money? If this is in reference to banning them from returning, this was already part  of the agreement when they joined the PGAT. The tour is just enforcing the rules they all agreed long ago. 

Edited March 22 by BlackDiamondPar5

[Titleist84]

4 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

How did they blacklist players for taking the money? If this is in reference to banning them from returning, this was already part  of the agreement when they joined the PGAT. The tour is just enforcing the rules they all agreed long ago. 

Yes banning them.  They've given players exemptions in the past for playing in events that didn't conflict with their schedule.  But the tour felt threatened and tried to scare them from joining LIV. 

 

 

[Titleist84]

34 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

 

The OWGR hat didn't drop until a couple weeks ago, when Greg 'dropped' LIV's pursuit of gaining ranking points. So your first statement doesn't accurately reflect the timeline of events.

 

I agree with the bolded point though. What's to be seen is if this was a tactic to shake the lawsuits or if its actually going to come to fruition.

Good point on OWGR timeline, Greg did promise them they would get ranking points and be able to play in the majors at first.  I still think this could've all been avoided if the tour just gave the players exemptions to play in LIV events.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Golferpaul said:

Without Johnson, Rahm, DeChambeau, Reed, Koepka, and Smith it was indeed a much weaker than normal field.

 

Stop hating and recognize those six players are world-class.

Hating you say......are you out of your mind? Koepka and Smith were two of my favorite players when they played on the PGAT. Since they joined LIV I've not seen them play at all and have no desire.

 

I'm saying, out of sight out of mind. My new favorites are Wyndham Clark, Brendon Todd, and Eric Cole.

 

Players are interchangeable on the PGAT. Rarely do they all play together other than the Major tournaments and rarely do they all play well then.

 

The PGAT rolled on when Jack and Arnie left and will roll on when Tiger leaves. Surely it will roll on now that these few players have left. 

 

Enjoy watching your world-class players and I'll enjoy watching mine.

 

Edited March 22 by Titleist99