LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[italianstallion]

21 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

How did they blacklist players for taking the money? If this is in reference to banning them from returning, this was already part  of the agreement when they joined the PGAT. The tour is just enforcing the rules they all agreed long ago. 

 

I understand the agreement that PGA TOUR players have when they join the TOUR. My agreement with that statement comes more from the fact that it was disingenuous for them to vilify people for leaving and then turn around and announce the framework agreement. I agree with the TOUR's stance on preventing those players from coming back to the TOUR, but don't agree with them announcing that they're ultimately going to do the same thing. Thus why I won't watch anything PGA TOUR related until the details are finalized. If the PIF ends up with any ownership or say in how the TOUR operates then I'm not watching for good.

[Titleist84]

57 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

It could of been avoided by Liv starting from scratch.  They could of started small tours to identify talent and bigger ones to further identify the outstanding talent.  Once that was done they could have a Liv tour that attracted golfers and fans. 

 

They didn't choose to start that way, they chose to disrupt everything in professional golf and demand to be part of what took the PGA Tour a half century to develop.  That's why things are like they are right now, because of the actions Liv took.

No company starts from scratch.  They throw money at top talent.  LIV just happens to have very deep pockets.  I also don't think starting a developmental tour would've made them any more popular.

 

I'm not a fan of LIV, I just don't like the way the tour handled this .

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, bekgolf said:

 

It could of been avoided by Liv starting from scratch.  They could of started small tours to identify talent and bigger ones to further identify the outstanding talent.  Once that was done they could have a Liv tour that attracted golfers and fans. 

 

They didn't choose to start that way, they chose to disrupt everything in professional golf and demand to be part of what took the PGA Tour a half century to develop.  That's why things are like they are right now, because of the actions Liv took.

If you have to explain this to someone, I suggest that they're being purposely obtuse.

[beluga99]

One thing LIV doesn’t have this weekend that the PGA does have - seven Kevins. Let’s go Streelman!

[BlackDiamondPar5]

5 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

 

I understand the agreement that PGA TOUR players have when they join the TOUR. My agreement with that statement comes more from the fact that it was disingenuous for them to vilify people for leaving and then turn around and announce the framework agreement. I agree with the TOUR's stance on preventing those players from coming back to the TOUR, but don't agree with them announcing that they're ultimately going to do the same thing. Thus why I won't watch anything PGA TOUR related until the details are finalized. If the PIF ends up with any ownership or say in how the TOUR operates then I'm not watching for good.

OK I see your point. 

 

But it seems Phil really set the fires for an adversarial relationship. Before any bans were announced, Phil had announced he was going to liv, called LIV operators scary, murderer's etc and bashed the tour with baseless, disingenuous allegations. 

 

Perhaps if Phil had shut his mouth the whole thing wouldn't have blown up quite so badly. 

[Hawkeye77]

The Tour didn’t vilify anyone, but for sure some players spoke their minds. LIV pursued a strategy of destroying the PGA Tour and baiting media with all sorts of stupid accusations snd childish insults directed at all sorts of individuals - clickbait. 
 

The Tour was put in a position of having to react to a monolithic $$$$$$$$ wielding destructive force - that’s a fact. I don’t think the Tour is doing the same thing as LIV - there is no similarity at all, IMO. We have signature events, no WGC’s, higher purses and overall more opportunity for players with all sorts of changes to the Tour and other tours under its umbrella or that it partners with. 
 

Time has been on LIV’s side - media wants something to write about, most don’t want to wait for things that require a lot of waiting to see how they will eventually turn out - now it’s the Tour didn’t handle it well - IMO it has has handled it about as well it could be.  
 

LIV is just the in our face pile of absolute BS poo that hides what’s really going on and ……… a lot of that can’t intelligently be talked about in this forum which is understandable but really makes it impossible to talk in real terms about what is involved. 
 

Tour events continue, good stories, if “ratings” are lagging for a few months - nothing new or alarming unless you want to feed their narrative. 

LIV itself? Nobody watches or for the most part cares. 
 

Saudis? Can’t talk about ‘em. 

Edited March 22 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, italianstallion said:

 

I understand the agreement that PGA TOUR players have when they join the TOUR. My agreement with that statement comes more from the fact that it was disingenuous for them to vilify people for leaving and then turn around and announce the framework agreement. I agree with the TOUR's stance on preventing those players from coming back to the TOUR, but don't agree with them announcing that they're ultimately going to do the same thing. Thus why I won't watch anything PGA TOUR related until the details are finalized. If the PIF ends up with any ownership or say in how the TOUR operates then I'm not watching for good.

The whole PIF potential investment is definitely problematic - maybe that’s what you are focused on in terms of the Tour and at least how things have been handled since the so called “truce” that wasn’t a truce was announced? 

 

Have to admit this gives me heartburn. Was hoping recent investment, etc. was more of a counter move, still do.  
 

Maybe they keep PIF out of the Tour but somehow through this new outfit think they have a pathway - I’m skeptical as well for sure.  And have to admit that any significant involvement of the Saudi gov’t in the Tour could be a bridge too far for me - but they haven’t asked!

[Titleist84]

28 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

The Tour didn’t vilify anyone, but for sure some players spoke their minds. LIV pursued a strategy of destroying the PGA Tour and baiting media with all sorts of stupid accusations snd childish insults directed at all sorts of individuals - clickbait. 
 

The Tour was put in a position of having to react to a monolithic $$$$$$$$ wielding destructive force - that’s a fact. I don’t think the Tour is doing the same thing as LIV - there is no similarity at all, IMO. We have signature events, no WGC’s, higher purses and overall more opportunity for players with all sorts of changes to the Tour and other tours under its umbrella or that it partners with. 
 

Time has been on LIV’s side - media wants something to write about, most don’t want to wait for things that require a lot of waiting to see how they will eventually turn out - now it’s the Tour didn’t handle it well - IMO it has has handled it about as well it could be.  
 

LIV is just the in our face pile of absolute BS poo that hides what’s really going on and ……… a lot of that can’t intelligently be talked about in this forum which is understandable but really makes it impossible to talk in real terms about what is involved. 
 

Tour events continue, good stories, if “ratings” are lagging for a few months - nothing new or alarming unless you want to feed their narrative. 

LIV itself? Nobody watches or for the most part cares. 
 

Saudis? Can’t talk about ‘em. 

No you can't talk about the Saudis because the tour wants their money.  

 

Smaller fields, higher purses, majority of them have no cuts but yeah sure, the signature events are nothing like LIV.

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

No you can't talk about the Saudis because the tour wants their money.  

 

I don’t know that they “want” it, (that hasn’t been shown) but the overall point about not being able to talk about the Saudis (again understandable) has not much to do with what the Tour wants. 

Edited March 22 by Hawkeye77

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

The Tour didn’t vilify anyone, but for sure some players spoke their minds. LIV pursued a strategy of destroying the PGA Tour and baiting media with all sorts of stupid accusations snd childish insults directed at all sorts of individuals - clickbait. 
 

The Tour was put in a position of having to react to a monolithic $$$$$$$$ wielding destructive force - that’s a fact. I don’t think the Tour is doing the same thing as LIV - there is no similarity at all, IMO. We have signature events, no WGC’s, higher purses and overall more opportunity for players with all sorts of changes to the Tour and other tours under its umbrella or that it partners with. 
 

Time has been on LIV’s side - media wants something to write about, most don’t want to wait for things that require a lot of waiting to see how they will eventually turn out - now it’s the Tour didn’t handle it well - IMO it has has handled it about as well it could be.  
 

LIV is just the in our face pile of absolute BS poo that hides what’s really going on and ……… a lot of that can’t intelligently be talked about in this forum which is understandable but really makes it impossible to talk in real terms about what is involved. 
 

Tour events continue, good stories, if “ratings” are lagging for a few months - nothing new or alarming unless you want to feed their narrative. 

LIV itself? Nobody watches or for the most part cares. 
 

Saudis? Can’t talk about ‘em. 

 

Jay couldn't say it any better. 

 

 

[Gregakin]

Yasir meeting with PGAT players, and no LIV players reps, can't be glossed over.  Without Yasir's checkbook, there is no LIV and there he was meeting without GN and his boys.  

 

Wonder if the boys are reading the room? They can't be foolish enough to believe this will last forever...or could they?

[Titleist84]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I don’t know that they “want” it, (that hasn’t been shown) but the overall point about not being able to talk about the Saudis (again understandable) has not much to do with what the Tour wants. 

 

Jordan Spieth confirms player directors are 'strongly encouraged' to meet with PIF's Al-Rumayyan

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jordan-spieth-pga-tour-meeting-yasir-al-rumayyan-pif-liv-2024-players-championship

 

 

[bcjim]

3 minutes ago, Gregakin said:

Yasir meeting with PGAT players, and no LIV players reps, can't be glossed over.  Without Yasir's checkbook, there is no LIV and there he was meeting without GN and his boys.  

 

Wonder if the boys are reading the room? They can't be foolish enough to believe this will last forever...or could they?

The guys that signed fat contracts are praying for liv to crater and fold up shop. Except for the lazy ones,  DJ, Cam maybe. Rahm wants nothing more than keeping his liv dough and going back to playing real golf.

[ThinkingPlus]

7 minutes ago, bcjim said:

The guys that signed fat contracts are praying for liv to crater and fold up shop. Except for the lazy ones,  DJ, Cam maybe. Rahm wants nothing more than keeping his liv dough and going back to playing real golf.

It will be fun to watch those guys re-qualify for the PGAT. At least I hope that is what they are required to do. That will truly show who really wants to play the PGAT and who doesn't. 

[Hawkeye77]

30 minutes ago, bcjim said:

The guys that signed fat contracts are praying for liv to crater and fold up shop. Except for the lazy ones,  DJ, Cam maybe. Rahm wants nothing more than keeping his liv dough and going back to playing real golf.

You can’t mind read and impose such notions on them.  They chose to leave real golf behind and were paid handsomely - suggesting they are now rich beyond belief and yearn for the good old days isn't realistic but no doubt they want to have their cake and eat it.

Edited March 22 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

14 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

 

Jordan Spieth confirms player directors are 'strongly encouraged' to meet with PIF's Al-Rumayyan

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jordan-spieth-pga-tour-meeting-yasir-al-rumayyan-pif-liv-2024-players-championship

 

 

Oh brother - old news.  Meeting and “wanting” their money are two different things. Enough already. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

24 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

You can’t mind read and impose such notions on them.  They chose to leave real golf behind and were paid handsomely - suggesting they are now rich beyond belief and yearn for the good old days isn't realistic but no doubt they want to have their cake and eat it.

You can read it in some of their faces. Sure the money won them over but it doesn't come without strings, both contractually and emotionally. Rahm in particular shows it. He truly can't feel unmitigated euphoria  about the money. He was pretty vocal against LIV. But he was lured by the cash  and that won out over what he grew up knowing was significant in the world of golf. Simply put, a hollow victory. 

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

You can read it in some of their faces. Sure the money won them over but it doesn't come without strings, both contractually and emotionally. Rahm in particular shows it. He truly can't feel unmitigated euphoria  about the money. He was pretty vocal against LIV. But he was lured by the cash  and that won out over what he grew up knowing was significant in the world of golf. Simply put, a hollow victory. 

 

He has really come off as the biggest hypocrite of all of them so far with the things he was more than just a little outspoken about - his statements IMO resonated with a lot of folks a lot more than many others, including Rory's ramblings.  I have a hard time believing behind the scenes and the now convenient musings he isn't happy as can be - $300 million plus is the deal he made and no doubt negotiated hard for, he wanted it.  I just don't see he has any real angst other than he knows he was bought (and good for him, but he's getting what he's getting paid for and will still play those majors he supposedly loves if he wants to) - maybe that matters when he's alone, but again, really hard to believe it does - too many upsides to being incredibly rich. 

[Hawkeye77]

59 minutes ago, Gregakin said:

Yasir meeting with PGAT players, and no LIV players reps, can't be glossed over.  Without Yasir's checkbook, there is no LIV and there he was meeting without GN and his boys.  

 

Wonder if the boys are reading the room? They can't be foolish enough to believe this will last forever...or could they?

 

There are all sorts of reasons why LIV players or Norman, lol, wouldn't have been involved in the meeting - their contracts are set, they have nothing to say about how the Saudi gov't spends its money.  If that's the point, it's something we already know.

[tomjas]

The only thing Rahm has said is that he’d still like to play some PGAT events e.g. Phoenix

 

Other LIV players have said similar things 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

31 minutes ago, tomjas said:

The only thing Rahm has said is that he’d still like to play some PGAT events e.g. Phoenix

 

Other LIV players have said similar things 

He said a lot more than that... 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/jon-rahm-liv-golf-pga-tour-comments/

 

[tomjas]

17 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

He said a lot more than that... 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/jon-rahm-liv-golf-pga-tour-comments/

 

My reading of the Rahm situation is that he felt betrayed by Monahan & decided to take the cash as a result 

 

Has been positive about LIV since then but that might be the money talking 

[orr444]

Norman built a statue of himself?? That is a bit unusual

[Hawkeye77]

12 hours ago, tomjas said:

My reading of the Rahm situation is that he felt betrayed by Monahan & decided to take the cash as a result 

 

 

You just can't be taken seriously.  

 

He didn't take $500 million plus because he felt betrayed --- he negotiated to $500 million plus because some other mega millions over time that were likely thrown at him never moved him enough to make the jump.  Nothing about his talk about legacy and championships and history had anything to do with Jay.

 

He took it because he wanted it, it's that simple - it's an obscene amount of money (of course, not as much as Tiger is reputed to have turned down).

 

Good for him.  If he gives me some I'll agree to miss him.

Edited March 23 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

16 minutes ago, orr444 said:

Norman built a statue of himself?? That is a bit unusual

 

Be fair now, his wife had it made! 

[PedronNiall]

35 minutes ago, tomjas said:

My reading of the Rahm situation is that he felt betrayed by Monahan & decided to take the cash as a result 

 

Has been positive about LIV since then but that might be the money talking 

He admitted explicitly that he thought he was fine but actually having that much money in front of him swayed him. He said nothing about Jay or anyone else pushing him there. 

 

Wild to try and blame Tour leadership when out of his own mouth we know exactly why he left. 

[Ghost of Snead]

37 minutes ago, tomjas said:

My reading of the Rahm situation is that he felt betrayed by Monahan & decided to take the cash as a result 

 

Has been positive about LIV since then but that might be the money talking 

 

Get a new Ouija board

[Hawkeye77]

Just an FYI and sorry if I missed it here, but I see a UK source is citing Rahm's deal at 450m pounds, or about $567m.  More than the entire purse of the PGA Tour in 2023.  Perspective folks on these guys that got paid and find it convenient to say, "but it would be nice to play on the PGA Tour, too."  

 

Holy cow.

 

But now he wants to see things worked out . . . .

Edited March 23 by Hawkeye77

[tomjas]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Get a new Ouija board

He literally said that he had lost faith in Monahan’s leadership 

 

Weird how facts bother you guys 

[tomjas]

15 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

He admitted explicitly that he thought he was fine but actually having that much money in front of him swayed him. He said nothing about Jay or anyone else pushing him there. 

 

Wild to try and blame Tour leadership when out of his own mouth we know exactly why he left. 

He also said he’d lost faith in Jay