LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[stinger_gc]

13 minutes ago, woahnelly said:

 

How much will my Surratt rookie card be worth by then?

Not as much as my Dean Burmester card!

[stinger_gc]

Will be fl the week of LIV Miami! Might go and support my Stingers! I’ve got already got my NFTs and Jersey ready to go! Hopefully that tournament in rural Georgia doesn’t distract from this historic event 

[PedronNiall]

4 hours ago, tomjas said:

The only thing it’s safe to assume is that any deal will result in changes to both tours

 

After all, Saudi could simply have sponsored a few tournaments if their only objective was to chuck a few $ at the tour

 

They couldn't simply sponsor a few tournaments because JM & Co. shot that down. All indications were that the Tour heads wanted zero to do with SA no matter how much they'd already made headway in the NBA, Premier League, F1, etc. 

 

Only way they could have done that is indirectly through companies they are tied to and that wouldn't have let them have the public attachment to sports they want. 

 

Clearly at this point most inside and outside of the Tour don't want SA involved and it's still up in the air as to if it happens or not. Until it's decided they'll play nice as much as they have to. It's still possible that there's a lot going on behind the scenes most of us will never see that will determine if Justice and others who have final say let anything go through. 

[tomjas]

1 hour ago, PedronNiall said:

 

They couldn't simply sponsor a few tournaments because JM & Co. shot that down. All indications were that the Tour heads wanted zero to do with SA no matter how much they'd already made headway in the NBA, Premier League, F1, etc. 

 

Only way they could have done that is indirectly through companies they are tied to and that wouldn't have let them have the public attachment to sports they want. 

 

Clearly at this point most inside and outside of the Tour don't want SA involved and it's still up in the air as to if it happens or not. Until it's decided they'll play nice as much as they have to. It's still possible that there's a lot going on behind the scenes most of us will never see that will determine if Justice and others who have final say let anything go through. 

Their involvement in those other sports is direct investment in teams and not merely sponsorship 

 

They own Newcastle and used to own a stake in McLaren

 

Btw, they haven’t invested in a NBA team & aren’t permitted to 

 

Don’t really see the problem in, say, Aramco sponsoring events given that they already do so for other golf tournaments and many global sports 

 

Seriously doubt that cricket fans perception of Saudi has changed because Aramco is the naming sponsor for every global tournament 

Edited March 25 by tomjas

[tomjas]

Highly recommend “The Lost Leonardo” on Netflix 

 

It’s about a painting & not golf but gives you an insight into MBS (Yasir’s boss)

 

 

[MtlJeff]

13 hours ago, tomjas said:

Rahm has a contract until 2028 

 

Given when Rahm signed (after merger talks began) i'd be shocked if there isn't language in the contract about what happens if the league merges into PGA or dissolves. Maybe like a lump sum to him of balance etc. 

 

Has to be in there...

 

But the LIV contract fine prints are pretty private

[King_Slender]

7 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

 

They couldn't simply sponsor a few tournaments because JM & Co. shot that down. All indications were that the Tour heads wanted zero to do with SA no matter how much they'd already made headway in the NBA, Premier League, F1, etc. 

 

Only way they could have done that is indirectly through companies they are tied to and that wouldn't have let them have the public attachment to sports they want. 

 

Clearly at this point most inside and outside of the Tour don't want SA involved and it's still up in the air as to if it happens or not. Until it's decided they'll play nice as much as they have to. It's still possible that there's a lot going on behind the scenes most of us will never see that will determine if Justice and others who have final say let anything go through. 

 

The only thing going on is Jay Monahan figuring out a way that he can maintain power/status in a newly merged entity when he''s done nothing but burn bridges for the last 2 years. 

[Golfinfloridaafter40]

19 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

 

The only thing going on is Jay Monahan figuring out a way that he can maintain power/status in a newly merged entity when he''s done nothing but burn bridges for the last 2 years. 

This!!!  He needs to go, if the PGA is going to recover from this

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, King_Slender said:

 

The only thing going on is Jay Monahan figuring out a way that he can maintain power/status in a newly merged entity when he''s done nothing but burn bridges for the last 2 years. 

 

Now now, that's a bit of over hype .....  I've been seeing PGA Tour events (last three weeks have been great), and DP and LPGA (which both have Tour involvement) events that have been pretty good. Restructuring, some needed changes and so on.

 

Tours not destroyed, LIV functionally irrelevant to those who watch golf, --- all things considered a good enough job and, lol, no not about an ego trip --- that's LIV's domain.  

 

Now it's just waiting for the next round of clickbait.

 

 

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, Golfinfloridaafter40 said:

This!!!  He needs to go, if the PGA is going to recover from this

 

The Jay thing is very interesting. Looking at it from the players point of view, he seems like a terrible boss, i am guessing that despite whatever they say publicly (which itself is not flattering often), privately he's probably even less liked. A lot of the reports of things he told them came across as vindictive and petty, and thats before you get into the telling them that some things are more important than money etc, before taking his own promotion

 

However, it has also been reported that he is very good at getting investors and is very well connected in that space. The SSG deal i believe was a great deal of his doing/relationships.

 

My guess is the players hate him largely. But on the business side there may be people who want him there. 

 

Maybe CEO of the parent company with a seperate tour CEO is the best for everyone

[ahenderX]

3 hours ago, tomjas said:

Highly recommend “The Lost Leonardo” on Netflix 

 

It’s about a painting & not golf but gives you an insight into MBS (Yasir’s boss)

 

 

Don’t have Netflix. What is there to learn other than MBS bought a $450M fake painting?

[bcjim]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

The Jay thing is very interesting. Looking at it from the players point of view, he seems like a terrible boss, i am guessing that despite whatever they say publicly (which itself is not flattering often), privately he's probably even less liked. A lot of the reports of things he told them came across as vindictive and petty, and thats before you get into the telling them that some things are more important than money etc, before taking his own promotion

 

However, it has also been reported that he is very good at getting investors and is very well connected in that space. The SSG deal i believe was a great deal of his doing/relationships.

 

My guess is the players hate him largely. But on the business side there may be people who want him there. 

 

Maybe CEO of the parent company with a seperate tour CEO is the best for everyone

He's not their boss,  first of all. And second,  looking objectively at it,  he's done a fantastic job of giving them a place to play golf for vast amounts of money.  I would love to a boss as terrible as Jay.

[MtlJeff]

4 minutes ago, bcjim said:

He's not their boss,  first of all. And second,  looking objectively at it,  he's done a fantastic job of giving them a place to play golf for vast amounts of money.  I would love to a boss as terrible as Jay.

 

He's the CEO of their tour and has the ability to suspend them, or give them PIP payouts. Whatever you want to call him is fine but he's an authority figure to the players certainly. 

 

There's people who make a lot of money and there's people who make less money, in all sorts of jobs. The psychology of whether or not you like your boss is only loosely tied to this. I am sure there are executives at many tech companies that make 750K or whatever that don't like their bosses. These same people when they were in college probably couldn't fathom ever making 750K and hating their boss. But life is funny like that

[bscinstnct]

Jay gets criticized, perhaps were he more adept at diplomacy, he could have made a deal earlier 

 

***However!

 

Lets not forget that PIF reportedly commissioned McKinsey to detail a report on how to basically steal the game, sign the Top 12 players, and gut the tour like a fish!

 

Then they proceeded to pay off as many top guys as possible with 100s of millions 

 

So, it doesn’t sound like there was any window to really deal and, from what I can tell

 

Nobody has suggested an alternative set of moves. He could made to not be in the situation we are in now. 
 

 

[MtlJeff]

7 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Jay gets criticized, perhaps were he more adept at diplomacy, he could have made a deal earlier 

 

***However!

 

Lets not forget that PIF reportedly commissioned McKinsey to detail a report on how to basically steal the game, sign the Top 12 players, and gut the tour like a fish!

 

Then they proceeded to pay off as many top guys as possible with 100s of millions 

 

So, it doesn’t sound like there was any window to really deal and, from what I can tell

 

Nobody has suggested an alternative set of moves. He could made to not be in the situation we are in now. 
 

 

 

From a purely business side this is what i was talking about. He apparently is very well connected with sponsors and investors, the tour was in a fairly healthy position position, and what LIV did would have been very challenging for any leader. 

 

From the view of a player, it seemed like based on reports, that they knew pretty well they had the players over a barrel (until LIV came along) and got to reject a few of the things they wanted. As you say too, i'm not sure he was super diplomatic with the players in handling the LIV poaching. 

 

It's in the second paragraph stuff where im guessing he could have done a better job. 

[PedronNiall]

9 hours ago, tomjas said:

Their involvement in those other sports is direct investment in teams and not merely sponsorship 

 

They own Newcastle and used to own a stake in McLaren

 

Btw, they haven’t invested in a NBA team & aren’t permitted to 

 

Don’t really see the problem in, say, Aramco sponsoring events given that they already do so for other golf tournaments and many global sports 

 

Seriously doubt that cricket fans perception of Saudi has changed because Aramco is the naming sponsor for every global tournament 

 

It doesn't matter what they've done elsewhere in regards to your original point, it's context is only in relation to what they want at the end of the day, which is public association with all the sports they buy into. The Tour refused to entertain them even having the "simple sponsorship" role you suggested. Wasn't going to happen, ever, and even now the merged entity is in doubt. 

[jimecherry]

9 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Jay gets criticized, perhaps were he more adept at diplomacy, he could have made a deal earlier 

 

***However!

 

Lets not forget that PIF reportedly commissioned McKinsey to detail a report on how to basically steal the game, sign the Top 12 players, and gut the tour like a fish!

 

Then they proceeded to pay off as many top guys as possible with 100s of millions 

 

So, it doesn’t sound like there was any window to really deal and, from what I can tell

 

Nobody has suggested an alternative set of moves. He could made to not be in the situation we are in now. 
 

 

i'm not really upset with jay's decision to not make a deal earlier or even the suspending of players. i'm upset with the moral high ground bs, and the asking players to buyinto that moral high ground.

[stinger_gc]

4 hours ago, Golfinfloridaafter40 said:

This!!!  He needs to go, if the PGA is going to recover from this

Jay’s not going anywhere. He actually got a promotion to CEO of PGAT enterprises a few weeks ago.

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, jimecherry said:

i'm not really upset with jay's decision to not make a deal earlier or even the suspending of players. i'm upset with the moral high ground bs, and the asking players to buyinto that moral high ground.

 

Yeah no doubt that was dumb and transparently hypocritical 

 

So, par for the course for a CEO 🤣

 

But it does seem like Jay is a bit out of his element with a deal this big. Although I assume he’s more of a “go between” at this point

[the bishop]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yeah no doubt that was dumb and transparently hypocritical 

 

So, par for the course for a CEO 🤣

 

But it does seem like Jay is a bit out of his element with a deal this big. Although I assume he’s more of a “go between” at this point

Well I see the Boeing job just opened up!🤣

[tomjas]

6 hours ago, ahenderX said:

Don’t have Netflix. What is there to learn other than MBS bought a $450M fake painting?

It’s a documentary about business and gives an insight into Saudi mindset 

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

5 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Jay gets criticized, perhaps were he more adept at diplomacy, he could have made a deal earlier 

 

***However!

 

Lets not forget that PIF reportedly commissioned McKinsey to detail a report on how to basically steal the game, sign the Top 12 players, and gut the tour like a fish!

 

Then they proceeded to pay off as many top guys as possible with 100s of millions 

 

So, it doesn’t sound like there was any window to really deal and, from what I can tell

 

Nobody has suggested an alternative set of moves. He could made to not be in the situation we are in now. 
 

 

All Jay had to do was take a meeting after Jack, Rory, Dunne, PIF etc, asked him to do so. 

[Hawkeye77]

44 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

All Jay had to do was take a meeting after Jack, Rory, Dunne, PIF etc, asked him to do so. 

Keep on making stuff up!

[bscinstnct]

37 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

All Jay had to do was take a meeting after Jack, Rory, Dunne, PIF etc, asked him to do so. 

Yeah?

 

Im sure Arum would have given Jay a copy of their golf plan to peruse over Niçoise salads 🤣

 

 

 

“A 2021 plan called “Project Wedge” from the firm McKinsey & Company outlined a number of scenarios for the Saudi Arabian pro golf venture that ultimately launched in June 2022. According to the New York Times, the documents revealed that benchmarks for success the “need to sign each of the world’s top 12 golfers, attract sponsors to an unproven product and land television deals for a sport with declining viewership—all without significant retaliation from the PGA Tour it would be plundering.”

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/nyt-report-liv-plan-2022

[Hawkeye77]

26 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Yeah?

 

Im sure Arum would have given Jay a copy of their golf plan to peruse over Niçoise salads 🤣

 

 

 

“A 2021 plan called “Project Wedge” from the firm McKinsey & Company outlined a number of scenarios for the Saudi Arabian pro golf venture that ultimately launched in June 2022. According to the New York Times, the documents revealed that benchmarks for success the “need to sign each of the world’s top 12 golfers, attract sponsors to an unproven product and land television deals for a sport with declining viewership—all without significant retaliation from the PGA Tour it would be plundering.”

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/nyt-report-liv-plan-2022

So they did it, lol, and ….. almost total fail, almost total fail and total fail even with the $$$$$$.

 

Hang in there Tour!
 

 

[Shilgy]

18 hours ago, tomjas said:

Their involvement in those other sports is direct investment in teams and not merely sponsorship 

 

They own Newcastle and used to own a stake in McLaren

 

Btw, they haven’t invested in a NBA team & aren’t permitted to 

 

Don’t really see the problem in, say, Aramco sponsoring events given that they already do so for other golf tournaments and many global sports 

 

Seriously doubt that cricket fans perception of Saudi has changed because Aramco is the naming sponsor for every global tournament 

They’re not permitted to own Newcastle FC either….but do.

 

As far as the PIF having unlimited funds as claimed a page ago….

 

This project will eat a ton of it, although they are looking for investors.

 

 

 

https://www.neom.com/en-us

 

[tomjas]

7 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

Jay’s not going anywhere. He actually got a promotion to CEO of PGAT enterprises a few weeks ago.

Poster boy for failing upwards 

[tomjas]

49 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

They’re not permitted to own Newcastle FC either….but do.

 

As far as the PIF having unlimited funds as claimed a page ago….

 

This project will eat a ton of it, although they are looking for investors.

 

 

 

https://www.neom.com/en-us

 

Abu Dhabi owns Man City as well 

 

EPL is hardly the best example of corporate governance 

[bcjim]

25 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Poster boy for failing upwards 

evidence free slander. By any measure Jay has done at a minimum a good job. 

[bscinstnct]

46 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Poster boy for failing upwards 

 

🤣

 

Jay has captained consistent growth and 6.5 Billion media deal

 

Arum and Norman have flushed like 5 billion down the toilet 🚽 and get 100k viewers on YouTube 

 

I know, I know, it’s 8-D chess ♟️ yo!

 

🤣🍻