LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[NormanFan]

Yeah, Bryson keeps grinding and his YouTube content is pretty fun.

 

I can definitely see him in the mix at the U.S. and Open championships.  However, some of the wayward iron shots he was able to get away with at Valhalla he will not able to at Pinehurst unless he wants to bring some sandals with him.

[CDM]

@idrive  and @Hawkeye77.... really?  Everyone knows you dislike LIV but Its a major, top players miss the cut.  That is what happens.   

 

Aberg, Clark, Fitzpatrick, Burns. Etc.   Its a Major and that is what happens.  11 or 16 players that play on LIV made the cut, 69% made it through the weekend.  Not a bad stat. 

 

Xander played the best all weekend and deserved the win, 100% he earned from start to finish.  Glad to see him win one finally. 

 

Bryson played well, always pretty consistent when he plays.   Brooks will admit was a surprise.  Showed up in contention as expected but Saturday, wow...  which was odd and then rebounded on Sunday.   *3 over on Satruday was a surprise but no one can miss that many 5 foots putts in any event, let alone a major and contend.  

 

Rahm, facts are facts (based on performance)  LIV was not smart move for him.  He has some issues going and appear to be mental.   If its not mental then 110% he does not care / practice like he used too. The only other logic is he is a player that just fits certain courses.  Looking at his PGAT schedule he did play a lot the same courses, ones he knows well.  On LIV he wont get that option, so maybe his game does not "travel" so to speak. Either way he should have stayed on the PGAT. 

 

I never figured Tiger or Phil would make the cut.  

 

Great event though.    

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, CDM said:

@idrive  and @Hawkeye77.... really?  Everyone knows you dislike LIV but Its a major, top players miss the cut.  That is what happens.   

 

Aberg, Clark, Fitzpatrick, Burns. Etc.   Its a Major and that is what happens.  11 or 16 players that play on LIV made the cut, 69% made it through the weekend.  Not a bad stat. 

 

Xander played the best all weekend and deserved the win, 100% he earned from start to finish.  Glad to see him win one finally. 

 

Bryson played well, always pretty consistent when he plays.   Brooks will admit was a surprise.  Showed up in contention as expected but Saturday, wow...  which was odd and then rebounded on Sunday.   *3 over on Satruday was a surprise but no one can miss that many 5 foots putts in any event, let alone a major and contend.  

 

Rahm, facts are facts (based on performance)  LIV was not smart move for him.  He has some issues going and appear to be mental.   If its not mental then 110% he does not care / practice like he used too. The only other logic is he is a player that just fits certain courses.  Looking at his PGAT schedule he did play a lot the same courses, ones he knows well.  On LIV he wont get that option, so maybe his game does not "travel" so to speak. Either way he should have stayed on the PGAT. 

 

I never figured Tiger or Phil would make the cut.  

 

Great event though.    

 

I haven't said a word about "top" players missing the cut.

 

 

[Tpfol]

It's amazing that at the end of the day, if players could have kept their PGA Tour cards by meeting the minimum number of tournaments and qualifications, all of this debate would be moot.

 

[NormanFan]

7 minutes ago, Tpfol said:

It's amazing that at the end of the day, if players could have kept their PGA Tour cards by meeting the minimum number of tournaments and qualifications, all of this debate would be moot.

 

 

This has been said a zillion times before but I'll say it again:  Why would the PGA TOUR agree to that?  At some point they just become a mini-tour to LIV.  And since LIV wanted these guys to play 14 events that wouldn't even leave them the ability to meet the TOUR's qualifications anyway since I doubt these guys were going to play 15 more on TOUR (which includes the majors).  Under this setup the floodgates would've opened, all the top players would've left, and TOUR would've been in shambles.

[jimb6golf]

Has anyone else noticed that Bryson's attitude, at least visually, has improved?  Never liked the guy during his PGA tour days and didn't miss him when he left for LIV.  However recently he's been doing Youtube matches with other golfers and he seems to have a much improved attitude and that seems to be carrying over to the course - the announcers during the PGA noted it as well and indicated his new caddy has been a big part of it as well.  Glad to have him back in a major when he's playing at his best and with a better attitude too (no more pouting after every shot, etc).

[idrive]

1 hour ago, Tpfol said:

It's amazing that at the end of the day, if players could have kept their PGA Tour cards by meeting the minimum number of tournaments and qualifications, all of this debate would be moot.

 

 

At the beginning of the day one of the big reasons for jumping (for most) was to stay home with their families and not have to play as much golf.

 

 

 

 

[idrive]

4 hours ago, CDM said:

@idrive  and @Hawkeye77.... really?  Everyone knows you dislike LIV but Its a major, top players miss the cut.  That is what happens.   

 

Aberg, Clark, Fitzpatrick, Burns. Etc.   Its a Major and that is what happens.  11 or 16 players that play on LIV made the cut, 69% made it through the weekend.  Not a bad stat. 

 

Xander played the best all weekend and deserved the win, 100% he earned from start to finish.  Glad to see him win one finally. 

 

Bryson played well, always pretty consistent when he plays.   Brooks will admit was a surprise.  Showed up in contention as expected but Saturday, wow...  which was odd and then rebounded on Sunday.   *3 over on Satruday was a surprise but no one can miss that many 5 foots putts in any event, let alone a major and contend.  

 

Rahm, facts are facts (based on performance)  LIV was not smart move for him.  He has some issues going and appear to be mental.   If its not mental then 110% he does not care / practice like he used too. The only other logic is he is a player that just fits certain courses.  Looking at his PGAT schedule he did play a lot the same courses, ones he knows well.  On LIV he wont get that option, so maybe his game does not "travel" so to speak. Either way he should have stayed on the PGAT. 

 

I never figured Tiger or Phil would make the cut.  

 

Great event though.    

 

2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

I haven't said a word about "top" players missing the cut.

 

 

 

Nor did I.

 

 

[pingbling23]

well xander now gets into the majors for 5 years.  LIV bound possibly.

[MrDC]

It's unlikely any player could have met the minimum for the PGAT and played every LIV event like they're contracted to do, with all the global travel it would have been impossible.

It's also unlikely golf fans would have embraced LIV players on the PGAT, sure we've seen fans acting nice at the Majors but that doesn't mean everyone wants them back on the tour.

This fracturing is for good, LIV players better hope LIV lives on because that's the only place for them to play golf now, along with the Majors of course.

Edited May 20 by MrDC

[Nic1972]

Happy for Schauffele that there will be no asterisk next to his name, the best iron player of all times was in the field.

[Titleist99]

Hey, didn't we hear this from Rahm .......🤣

 

"Xander Schauffele's father: 'No chance' of LIV Golf defection"

"What we told LIV in Saudi Arabia, with Xander beside me, was that if there is no path back to the PGA Tour and if there is no chance at world ranking points we do not have anything to talk about," Stefan Schauffele said. "Even if you throw hundreds of millions of dollars at him. That word still stands."

[Hawkeye77]

7 hours ago, jimb6golf said:

Has anyone else noticed that Bryson's attitude, at least visually, has improved?  Never liked the guy during his PGA tour days and didn't miss him when he left for LIV.  However recently he's been doing Youtube matches with other golfers and he seems to have a much improved attitude and that seems to be carrying over to the course - the announcers during the PGA noted it as well and indicated his new caddy has been a big part of it as well.  Glad to have him back in a major when he's playing at his best and with a better attitude too (no more pouting after every shot, etc).

He said YouTube has allowed him to see what is needed to engage with fans and so forth.  So some part of it is a bit calculated but . . . he sure seems to have embraced it.  He also mentioned how nice it is to be home more to work on his game and the YouTube thing so the $$$$$$$ bit has worked out for him.  

 

I see Golf Digest has a silly article up about how golf "needs" him - these media LIV apologists are getting to be a bit much.  He left, he knew what he was doing and seems very content with it all.  He didn't "need" the golf that he left now some clamor for the LIV guys to have their cake and eat it.  

 

If he's being genuine, he's happy, good for him!

[jdl]

5 hours ago, pingbling23 said:

well xander now gets into the majors for 5 years.  LIV bound possibly.

 

https://x.com/NUCLRGOLF/status/1792532035229135007

 

7 hours ago, jimb6golf said:

Has anyone else noticed that Bryson's attitude, at least visually, has improved?  Never liked the guy during his PGA tour days and didn't miss him when he left for LIV.  However recently he's been doing Youtube matches with other golfers and he seems to have a much improved attitude and that seems to be carrying over to the course - the announcers during the PGA noted it as well and indicated his new caddy has been a big part of it as well.  Glad to have him back in a major when he's playing at his best and with a better attitude too (no more pouting after every shot, etc).

 

https://x.com/AlanShipnuck/status/1792261754216677462

[pingbling23]

34 minutes ago, jdl said:

 

https://x.com/NUCLRGOLF/status/1792532035229135007

 

 

https://x.com/AlanShipnuck/status/1792261754216677462

Yeah I read that.  “What we told LIV in Saudi Arabia, with Xander beside me, was that if there is no path back to the PGA Tour & if there is no chance at World Ranking points we do not have anything to talk about.”. There will be a path back and guess who doesn’t need owgr points now.

[Hawkeye77]

33 minutes ago, jdl said:

 

https://x.com/NUCLRGOLF/status/1792532035229135007

 

 

https://x.com/AlanShipnuck/status/1792261754216677462

 

Just goes to show sometimes you need someone to ask the key questions and get through the BS - in others words, no pathway back to the Tour, no OWGR  contrary to the "promises" some claimed to have been given (if they were even telling the truth) or now their "hopes and dreams" now they've gone.  In the end it was . . . . $$$$$$$ (just admit it like a few have, lol).  The plan was to kill the Tour and be part of whatever LIV was the prelude to, so far . . . failure.  

 

Always good when Dad can have your back!  I respect the definitive statement.

[tomjas]

10 hours ago, MrDC said:

It's unlikely any player could have met the minimum for the PGAT and played every LIV event like they're contracted to do, with all the global travel it would have been impossible.

It's also unlikely golf fans would have embraced LIV players on the PGAT, sure we've seen fans acting nice at the Majors but that doesn't mean everyone wants them back on the tour.

This fracturing is for good, LIV players better hope LIV lives on because that's the only place for them to play golf now, along with the Majors of course.

There’s several tours that welcome LIV golfers already 

[Tpfol]

18 hours ago, NormanFan said:

 

This has been said a zillion times before but I'll say it again:  Why would the PGA TOUR agree to that?  At some point they just become a mini-tour to LIV.  And since LIV wanted these guys to play 14 events that wouldn't even leave them the ability to meet the TOUR's qualifications anyway since I doubt these guys were going to play 15 more on TOUR (which includes the majors).  Under this setup the floodgates would've opened, all the top players would've left, and TOUR would've been in shambles.

And a zillion times the answer is the same. The PGA tour has minimum standards a player needs to uphold to keep their card, if a player meets those standards they keep their card. What they do in their own time is their own business.

The fact is, many players over the years after gaining success opted for a near minimum standard and it was acceptable.

If players jumped to LIV and lost their cards because they couldnt meet standards, that is on them, not the Tour. If they were able to keep their card, they'd have more quality players at events. Its a win win for the tour.

Instead its been a political nightmare 

[Danielson]

20 hours ago, jimb6golf said:

Has anyone else noticed that Bryson's attitude, at least visually, has improved?  Never liked the guy during his PGA tour days and didn't miss him when he left for LIV.  However recently he's been doing Youtube matches with other golfers and he seems to have a much improved attitude and that seems to be carrying over to the course - the announcers during the PGA noted it as well and indicated his new caddy has been a big part of it as well.  Glad to have him back in a major when he's playing at his best and with a better attitude too (no more pouting after every shot, etc).

 

I think he can definitely be majorly tone deaf and say some absolutely insane things, but I think he WANTS to be liked and doesn't understand why he sometimes isn't. Not to patronize him, he's an adult who can handle his business... but I feel like a lot of outsiders can look at his quotes and demeanor and go "yeah man, that's why they were never going to put you on the policy board" and he just doesn't always see that same thing. I think being out of the spotlight at LIV is probably great for him, then he can engage with fans via Youtube on his own terms instead of through standard PGA Tour channels. Guy marches to the beat of his own drum for sure.

[NormanFan]

4 hours ago, Tpfol said:

And a zillion times the answer is the same. The PGA tour has minimum standards a player needs to uphold to keep their card, if a player meets those standards they keep their card. What they do in their own time is their own business.

The fact is, many players over the years after gaining success opted for a near minimum standard and it was acceptable.

If players jumped to LIV and lost their cards because they couldnt meet standards, that is on them, not the Tour. If they were able to keep their card, they'd have more quality players at events. Its a win win for the tour.

Instead its been a political nightmare 

 

These guys can still do whatever they want to do on their own time.  However, when you do that there is no obligation of a professional organization to let you compete in their events.  There's no human right to compete on the PGA TOUR.

[NormanFan]

9 hours ago, tomjas said:

There’s several tours that welcome LIV golfers already 

 

Yes, but those tours don't require 15+ events a year for membership as far as I know.  But let me guess, you'd prefer the TOUR have lowered that to like 5-10 events, which would basically kill the other TOUR stops.  And I'm sure that would've been another demand from players that wanted the Saudi money.  All of which would have, again, eroded the TOUR brand.  They were right to defend that.

Edited May 21 by NormanFan

[Dutch1008]

5 hours ago, Tpfol said:

And a zillion times the answer is the same. The PGA tour has minimum standards a player needs to uphold to keep their card, if a player meets those standards they keep their card. What they do in their own time is their own business.

The fact is, many players over the years after gaining success opted for a near minimum standard and it was acceptable.

If players jumped to LIV and lost their cards because they couldnt meet standards, that is on them, not the Tour. If they were able to keep their card, they'd have more quality players at events. Its a win win for the tour.

Instead its been a political nightmare 

 

Do the math. Top guys play 25x a year, maybe. 

 

25 Events - 4 Majors - 14 LIV Events = 7 potential open dates

 

Congrats PGAT, the best players in the world might give you 7 events. 

 

But wait, it's worse. The European Ryder Cup requires players to participate in 4 DPWT events to maintain eligibility. So sorry PGAT, Rahm, Rory, Viktor, Fitzpatrick, Aberg, Fleetwood, Hatton, etc aren't playing 7, they're playing 3. But hey! The Scottish Open is co-sanctioned so at least you'll get  some coverage for that!

 

But wait, it's even worse. Rory only played 22 events in 2023. Sorry PGAT, no Rory for you. Rahm played in 24, so you might get him for 2 events. Congrats Torrey Pines and Waste Management, Rahmbo is back to his old stomping grounds!  

 

Tell me, what is the PGAT worth, what is the next TV contract going to look like, when the top 50 players in the world are only showing up to a small handful of events? About as valuable as the KFT. 

 

On no, now it's worse! Even though Rahm loves Torrey and WM, you think he's going to take time away from his family to play for a $2-3M purse? The PGAT isn't putting up $8-20M purses when the TV contract evaporates. 

 

For your idea to be remotely possible, the Top 50 players would need to be open to a 30-35 event calendar. Looking back over the last 25 years and specifically over the last 3, what makes you think the players have any interest in working more?

 

[jkumpire]

Hi Dutch,

 

So, as I understand your position, the PGA Tour is irrelevant to world golf other than a few majors and a couple of other big events that the 'top fifty players in the world' play in? LIV golf is supposedly the future, and in time only it will draw massive crowds on TV and at sites. All the other tours will have events to fill time with almost no spectators, nobody watching on TV, small prizes, and maybe be a feeder system for the real (i.e. LIV tour).

 

Sounds pretty depressing to me. Though maybe getting a Crushers uniform hat would be nice. 😒  

[tomjas]

5 hours ago, NormanFan said:

 

Yes, but those tours don't require 15+ events a year for membership as far as I know.  But let me guess, you'd prefer the TOUR have lowered that to like 5-10 events, which would basically kill the other TOUR stops.  And I'm sure that would've been another demand from players that wanted the Saudi money.  All of which would have, again, eroded the TOUR brand.  They were right to defend that.

I have stated no preference 

 

Just pointing out facts 

 

There’s a big world out there with lots of options 

[Tpfol]

4 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Do the math. Top guys play 25x a year, maybe. 

 

25 Events - 4 Majors - 14 LIV Events = 7 potential open dates

 

Congrats PGAT, the best players in the world might give you 7 events. 

 

But wait, it's worse. The European Ryder Cup requires players to participate in 4 DPWT events to maintain eligibility. So sorry PGAT, Rahm, Rory, Viktor, Fitzpatrick, Aberg, Fleetwood, Hatton, etc aren't playing 7, they're playing 3. But hey! The Scottish Open is co-sanctioned so at least you'll get  some coverage for that!

 

But wait, it's even worse. Rory only played 22 events in 2023. Sorry PGAT, no Rory for you. Rahm played in 24, so you might get him for 2 events. Congrats Torrey Pines and Waste Management, Rahmbo is back to his old stomping grounds!  

 

Tell me, what is the PGAT worth, what is the next TV contract going to look like, when the top 50 players in the world are only showing up to a small handful of events? About as valuable as the KFT. 

 

On no, now it's worse! Even though Rahm loves Torrey and WM, you think he's going to take time away from his family to play for a $2-3M purse? The PGAT isn't putting up $8-20M purses when the TV contract evaporates. 

 

For your idea to be remotely possible, the Top 50 players would need to be open to a 30-35 event calendar. Looking back over the last 25 years and specifically over the last 3, what makes you think the players have any interest in working more?

 

 

Basically, you are agreeing with me.

The PGA tour didnt need to suspend these guys if they truly believed all that, they wouldnt have been able to retain their PGA status and wouldnt have had to go thru all of the controversy.

 

[Tpfol]

On 5/20/2024 at 1:49 PM, idrive said:

 

At the beginning of the day one of the big reasons for jumping (for most) was to stay home with their families and not have to play as much golf.

 

 

 

 

Which was said of course after facing expulsion from the tour.

How much simpler it would have been to have allowed these players the opportunity to not meet the standards and lose their status

 

[Dutch1008]

3 hours ago, jkumpire said:

Hi Dutch,

 

So, as I understand your position, the PGA Tour is irrelevant to world golf other than a few majors and a couple of other big events that the 'top fifty players in the world' play in? LIV golf is supposedly the future, and in time only it will draw massive crowds on TV and at sites. All the other tours will have events to fill time with almost no spectators, nobody watching on TV, small prizes, and maybe be a feeder system for the real (i.e. LIV tour).

 

Sounds pretty depressing to me. Though maybe getting a Crushers uniform hat would be nice. 😒  

 

Uhh no, I think LIV is lame mickey mouse golf. 

 

I was simply responding to a poster who believes the PGAT made a mistake in not allowing players to come and go as they please. I'm of the opinion that would have been death by a self inflicted wound. 

 

Lets say, for example, the top 50 take the big checks from LIV while also intending to honor their PGAT requirement of 15 events? What's that look like?

 

+ 14 LIV events + 4 Majors (Which count as PGAT events) + 11 additional PGAT events to hit their requirement = 29 events

 

For the Europeans that still need to hit their Ryder Cup requirements, they'd have to play two additional events (Scottish & Open Championship already count) = 31 events

 

So as I mentioned, the top guys would need to commit to ~30 events to actually make that work. Players haven't shown much of an appetite to work more but perhaps the LIV money makes this worth while. 

 

Two big problems...

1. The PGAT hosts some 40 events every year, now 75% of those will lack all of the Top 50. Yikes. Do you find yourself glued to the tube during the Sanderson Farms?  

2. With the top 50 all playing on LIV and a working relationship w/ the PGAT, how quickly do you think the OWGR points issue gets resolved? My bet is yesterday if not quicker

 

So now that the PGAT has a weaker calendar, how do you think the negotiations for the next TV deal go? What type of TV deal does LIV get as the home of 14 events w/ the Top 50 players? How quickly does the Tour replace the Farmers as the sponsor at Torrey Pines now that none of the Top 50 are showing up? When they do find a sponsor, do you think they'll pay what Farmers did with a weaker field?

 

If TV $'s and sponsor $'s decline, what do you think happens to purses? 

 

If the OWGR issue is resolved and PGAT purses are declining, why would the Top 50 guys, who are making buckets at LIV and have access to majors, really care that much about keeping a PGAT card? Why do they need it? For nostalgia? Maybe they play that jumbo schedule for a year or two, but eventually it scales back. Eventually LIV has all the leverage and the PGAT becomes the KFT with a better name. 

Edited May 22 by Dutch1008

[Shilgy]

Did I read correctly that Chacarra was the only one to make it through qualifying for the US Open?

Plus exempt Bryson, Hatton, DJ, Kaymer, Koepka, Phil, Rahm,and Cam Smith.  Seems to be smaller representation as we go along.

[Hawkeye77]

12 hours ago, Tpfol said:

Which was said of course after facing expulsion from the tour.

How much simpler it would have been to have allowed these players the opportunity to not meet the standards and lose their status

 

I suggest reading up on what actually happened and why? This doesn’t make sense. 

[tomjas]

9 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Did I read correctly that Chacarra was the only one to make it through qualifying for the US Open?

Plus exempt Bryson, Hatton, DJ, Kaymer, Koepka, Phil, Rahm,and Cam Smith.  Seems to be smaller representation as we go along.

There were 16 in PGA but Open has different criteria e.g. top 100 on OWGR for PGA v top 60