LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Danielson]

17 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

I wish they had filmed it all and didn't cut holes out or shorten it for TV.  Those guys were playing a different game then.  And it seemed to me it was more of a game too, that you played as much with the clubs as you did your mind and your imagination sussing out what type of shot to hit.  Much more vagary and variety.

 

I was very surprised to not see more stuff like this during Covid when they couldn't have fans anyways. Still surprised we don't get more. A LIV challenge match setup would get me to actually watch. Play courses you couldn't host a full event at due to lack of infrastructure, bring a handful of cameras and shoot it from the ground. It seems like all "The Match" setups we get now are just trying too hard and injecting too much random BS. I'd watch Brooks play Rahm at Medalist or Fisher's Island or Kauri Cliffs any day.

[idrive]

10 hours ago, notsohard said:

Well, head in the sand by the PGAT board is not going to help...RBC have pulled the pin... their PR response is that they'll wait and see what happens with the "framework deal". If there is no deal, there is no more RBC. That's 3 big sponsors gone. 

 

Not true. they are monitoring the situation. They never said no "framework deal" or we're done. They are disappointed like many but have not said they will pull their sponsorship if there is no merger.

 

Like the other sponsors that have left there are others standing by to take their place.

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 6/3/2024 at 1:28 PM, Rob G 89 said:

I agree to an extent and like to add it seems like the liv tour is for older players who can’t compete on pga tour or players in prime only care about the majors. I have no problem with either tour and I think it strengthens and makes the majors more intriguing. If your a real golf fan more golf is better

 

"More golf" isn't better if it dilutes the talent pool such that top players aren't playing on the same tour together. Then it just means that you have more golf, but it's less-competitive and less compelling to watch. 

 

That said, I'm not in the camp that says the current PGA Tour product isn't competitive or compelling. I think outside of a VERY small handful of players (Rahm/DJ/Bryson/Brooks/CamSmith), the ones who left for LIV were addition by subtraction. So I think ultimately the dilution was pretty minor and didn't actually make professional golf materially worse. The LIV product is pretty weak, but thankfully its existence didn't make the PGAT product materially worse. 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

"More golf" isn't better if it dilutes the talent pool such that top players aren't playing on the same tour together. Then it just means that you have more golf, but it's less-competitive and less compelling to watch. 

 

That said, I'm not in the camp that says the current PGA Tour product isn't competitive or compelling. I think outside of a VERY small handful of players (Rahm/DJ/Bryson/Brooks/CamSmith), the ones who left for LIV were addition by subtraction. So I think ultimately the dilution was pretty minor and didn't actually make professional golf materially worse. The LIV product is pretty weak, but thankfully its existence didn't make the PGAT product materially worse. 

 

 

Agreed - one need only look at the Memorial field this week versus the LIV field in Houston. 

 

The heat index this weekend in Houston will hover between 110-118° F. You would think Norman could've found a course somewhere above the Mason-Dixon line for them to play this weekend.

[Rob G 89]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Agreed - one need only look at the Memorial field this week versus the LIV field in Houston. 

 

The heat index this weekend in Houston will hover between 110-118° F. You would think Norman could've found a course somewhere above the Mason-Dixon line for them to play this weekend.

Will the extreme heat help the liv players get ready for us open or hurt them because it drains them?

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

 

[leezer99]

Lamprecht to LIV incoming. All the timing makes too much sense... has an exemption into the US Open but turns pro instead. Tries to qualify into the US Open and fails to do so. Ends up in 2nd place on PGA Tour U with full KFT status but doesn't enter this week's event. 

 

Quite a few contracts are up this year for players on LIV and they are looking for extensions and not getting them (yet). If LIV were to pull the world #1 am it would be a huge gain for them. 

 

Full disclosure, I am not a fan of his at all. After watching his behavior during the semifinal round against Clanton, he lost me as a supporter. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

30 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Lamprecht to LIV incoming. All the timing makes too much sense... has an exemption into the US Open but turns pro instead. Tries to qualify into the US Open and fails to do so. Ends up in 2nd place on PGA Tour U with full KFT status but doesn't enter this week's event. 

 

Quite a few contracts are up this year for players on LIV and they are looking for extensions and not getting them (yet). If LIV were to pull the world #1 am it would be a huge gain for them. 

 

Full disclosure, I am not a fan of his at all. After watching his behavior during the semifinal round against Clanton, he lost me as a supporter. 

I had to look up who he is. .. so he's not moving the needle. Just like Rahm and Kim didn't move the needle for LIV. 

 

I was looking at web traffic numbers for LIVgolf.com vs PGAtour.com. PGA tour has added 1.3Million monthly visits from April to June while livgolf has added 63K over the same period. To give that additional context, the PGAT growth in monthly views alone since April is nearly 3x LIV's total monthly traffic. 

 

No matter the recruit it's not generating liv fans. 

Edited June 5 by BlackDiamondPar5

[jls667]

8 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

 

 

Hold up.........all that money and they took a commercial airline together?

[freeze16172002]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

Lamprecht to LIV incoming. All the timing makes too much sense... has an exemption into the US Open but turns pro instead. Tries to qualify into the US Open and fails to do so. Ends up in 2nd place on PGA Tour U with full KFT status but doesn't enter this week's event. 

 

Quite a few contracts are up this year for players on LIV and they are looking for extensions and not getting them (yet). If LIV were to pull the world #1 am it would be a huge gain for them. 

 

Full disclosure, I am not a fan of his at all. After watching his behavior during the semifinal round against Clanton, he lost me as a supporter. 

Why go pro a week before the US Open and lose the exemption. Liv has an event this week, he isnt in it. He is not in the Memorial. Whoever is advising him should be fired

[dcmidnight]

Lamprecht is a huge get only to the nerdiest of the nerds on golf forums and Twitter.

And its only huge if they start cycling out the bottom of the barrel - like AK. Sorry, it was a good try, you went for the PR home run and hit a foul ball to first. If LIV really wants to improve the fields you *have* to start taking the DFLs off your roster and replacing them with better players.

[bcjim]

11 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Agreed - one need only look at the Memorial field this week versus the LIV field in Houston. 

 

The heat index this weekend in Houston will hover between 110-118° F. You would think Norman could've found a course somewhere above the Mason-Dixon line for them to play this weekend.

Liv players prepping for the Houston tournament

 

[Danielson]

43 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Lamprecht is a huge get only to the nerdiest of the nerds on golf forums and Twitter.

And its only huge if they start cycling out the bottom of the barrel - like AK. Sorry, it was a good try, you went for the PR home run and hit a foul ball to first. If LIV really wants to improve the fields you *have* to start taking the DFLs off your roster and replacing them with better players.

 

It'll be interesting to see what do they do when a captain is in a relegation spot. And whether that prompts other teams to just make everyone a captain since that's a thing you can apparently do (Majesticks). We need team-wide relegation. Send the Iron Heads and Majesticks to the MENA tour.

[Archimedes65]

5 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Lamprecht to LIV incoming. All the timing makes too much sense... has an exemption into the US Open but turns pro instead. Tries to qualify into the US Open and fails to do so. Ends up in 2nd place on PGA Tour U with full KFT status but doesn't enter this week's event. 

 

Quite a few contracts are up this year for players on LIV and they are looking for extensions and not getting them (yet). If LIV were to pull the world #1 am it would be a huge gain for them. 

 

Full disclosure, I am not a fan of his at all. After watching his behavior during the semifinal round against Clanton, he lost me as a supporter. 

 

He melted down at NCAA’s last month as well.  Looked totally out of sorts.  IIRC, he’s recently recovered from a back injury.  Could be that he’s resting it. 

[Archimedes65]

4 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

Why go pro a week before the US Open and lose the exemption. Liv has an event this week, he isnt in it. He is not in the Memorial. Whoever is advising him should be fired

 

He’s had a back injury.  Kept him out of the individual part of NCAA’s, though he came back for at least one round of the team portion.  He played poorly though.  Could be he’s just resting his back.

[Archimedes65]

3 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

It'll be interesting to see what do they do when a captain is in a relegation spot. And whether that prompts other teams to just make everyone a captain since that's a thing you can apparently do (Majesticks). We need team-wide relegation. Send the Iron Heads and Majesticks to the MENA tour.

 

LIV’s team names crack me up.  Half of them sound like roller derby team names, and the other half sound like they a group of 12 year olds came up with them.  Nothing says professionalism like ‘The Crushers’…

[freeze16172002]

4 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

Lamprecht is a huge get only to the nerdiest of the nerds on golf forums and Twitter.

And its only huge if they start cycling out the bottom of the barrel - like AK. Sorry, it was a good try, you went for the PR home run and hit a foul ball to first. If LIV really wants to improve the fields you *have* to start taking the DFLs off your roster and replacing them with better players.

that is a hard ask when 75% of the league is washed up and never were players. Then you have players like DJ that will want a big contract to resign, but the best years are behind him. That obviously goes with Phil also

[freeze16172002]

27 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

He’s had a back injury.  Kept him out of the individual part of NCAA’s, though he came back for at least one round of the team portion.  He played poorly though.  Could be he’s just resting his back.

So he tried to qualify for the US Open last week when he was already qualified? That makes sense? He needed to go pro to rest his back, couldnt do it as a AM

[smashdn]

16 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

The heat index this weekend in Houston will hover between 110-118° F. You would think Norman could've found a course somewhere above the Mason-Dixon line for them to play this weekend.

 

My confusion is this, if this is a problem or a concern, have you taken a look at the PGAT schedule?  North Carolina in August?  Memphis in August?  Atlanta in August?

 

Not sure where the Ghost of Snead resides but it will be hot and humid here until the middle of September or longer.  I am on the KY-TN line.

 

Late June in Nashville is gonna be hot.  The Greenbrier in August might be tolerable due to being in the mountains.  Even Dallas in late September will be plenty warm.  Just giving you the heads up.

[Titleist99]

On 6/4/2024 at 11:37 AM, idrive said:

 

Not true. they are monitoring the situation. They never said no "framework deal" or we're done. They are disappointed like many but have not said they will pull their sponsorship if there is no merger.

 

Like the other sponsors that have left there are others standing by to take their place.

 

100%.......

The waiting list is long, and nobody finds sponsors like Jay Monohan.

 

"The @PGATOUR has a new title sponsor for its Kentucky event, with Louisville-based ISCO Industries signing on through 2027. The ISCO Championship is July 11-14, opposite the Genesis Scottish Open:"

[bcjim]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

My confusion is this, if this is a problem or a concern, have you taken a look at the PGAT schedule?  North Carolina in August?  Memphis in August?  Atlanta in August?

 

Not sure where the Ghost of Snead resides but it will be hot and humid here until the middle of September or longer.  I am on the KY-TN line.

 

Late June in Nashville is gonna be hot.  The Greenbrier in August might be tolerable due to being in the mountains.  Even Dallas in late September will be plenty warm.  Just giving you the heads up.

Just seems like when you have few events, you might want to be a little more selective about not holding them in an oven. Especially when no sponsor (such as FedEx) has any skin in the game since you have no sponsors.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, freeze16172002 said:

that is a hard ask when 75% of the league is washed up and never were players. Then you have players like DJ that will want a big contract to resign, but the best years are behind him. That obviously goes with Phil also

While I agree with the bulk of your statement, I think they will continue to play in the LIV league for the winning purses and their equity in the teams. I do believe part ownership was one of the perks of joining. I could be wrong though. Besides, where else are they going to play?

[Danielson]

1 hour ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

LIV’s team names crack me up.  Half of them sound like roller derby team names, and the other half sound like they a group of 12 year olds came up with them.  Nothing says professionalism like ‘The Crushers’…

 

I kind of love it because it puts a bow on how ridiculous LIV is sometimes.

[Ghost of Snead]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

My confusion is this, if this is a problem or a concern, have you taken a look at the PGAT schedule?  North Carolina in August?  Memphis in August?  Atlanta in August?

 

Not sure where the Ghost of Snead resides but it will be hot and humid here until the middle of September or longer.  I am on the KY-TN line.

 

Late June in Nashville is gonna be hot.  The Greenbrier in August might be tolerable due to being in the mountains.  Even Dallas in late September will be plenty warm.  Just giving you the heads up.

 

No need to be confused. I currently live in Georgia, have lived in Florida and am well aware of the weather. 

 

If you've ever been to Houston, it's hellish hot this time of the year and a heat index over 110 is dangerous. My post never said anything about the PGAT sites you mention that have been cast in stone for awhile. Could it be as hot at those sites as well ? Sure ... as hot as Houston ? Not likely. 

 

You would think Norman had choices of where to play when, but evidently not. 

 

 

 

 

[Archimedes65]

2 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

So he tried to qualify for the US Open last week when he was already qualified? That makes sense? He needed to go pro to rest his back, couldnt do it as a AM

 

No idea.  Wasn’t saying that I knew anything.  Just saying that he very recently had an injury that he couldn’t play through.  During the NCAAs he fell apart on the back nine, like someone still feeling an injury or just not back yet.

 

Why would you ‘go pro’ if you’re just going to LIV anyway?  It’s a moot point, as you’re a pro the minute you sign with LIV.  If he’s going to LIV, why not take the U.S. Open exemption and play, and then depart?  You think he’s just looking for a little cash on the way out?  I’d think the smarter move, if you’re going to LIV, would be to take the exemption and try to finish in the top 10 to earn an exemption for the following year, so he doesn’t have to go through qualifying.

[Opie Taylor]

2 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

My confusion is this, if this is a problem or a concern, have you taken a look at the PGAT schedule?  North Carolina in August?  Memphis in August?  Atlanta in August?

 

Not sure where the Ghost of Snead resides but it will be hot and humid here until the middle of September or longer.  I am on the KY-TN line.

 

Late June in Nashville is gonna be hot.  The Greenbrier in August might be tolerable due to being in the mountains.  Even Dallas in late September will be plenty warm.  Just giving you the heads up.

PGAT not giving players the option to wear shorts is ridiculous. Even the DPWT has allowed players to wear shorts at certain events. It doesn't look trashy at all.

 

I think it was even hotter and more humid when they were in Asia.

[Archimedes65]

54 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

While I agree with the bulk of your statement, I think they will continue to play in the LIV league for the winning purses and their equity in the teams. I do believe part ownership was one of the perks of joining. I could be wrong though. Besides, where else are they going to play?

 

I disagree.  My money’s on the big names walking away from LIV when their contracts are up and trying to make their way back to the PGA Tour, unless something radically changes in terms of a PGA Merger and/or LIV magically becomes successful.  The big names that signed got so much money for their 3-5 year commitment, they won’t need any more money and I think they will miss playing in relevant tournaments and having easier access to the Majors.

 

If status quo remains the same, I can’t imagine guys like Rahm wanting to spend the rest of their careers playing meaningless events for more bags of cash. Again, IF nothing changes in the current landscape. 

[CDM]

On 6/4/2024 at 9:37 AM, idrive said:

 

Not true. they are monitoring the situation. They never said no "framework deal" or we're done. They are disappointed like many but have not said they will pull their sponsorship if there is no merger.

 

Like the other sponsors that have left there are others standing by to take their place.

 

100% TRUE, merger comment is BS. 

 

RBC cleary noted it is based on uncertain market aspects of the PGAT.  IE: numbers for PGAT being down by decent margins from attendance and TV viewership.   Similar reasons the other 3 Top sponsors pulled out. RBC would make 4 now  

 

RBC business wise, smart move honestly to state this. Purely just a business "disclaimer" at this point.

 

Should RBC pull out as they have NO contract going foward with the PGAT.  YES they have no contract going foward with the PGAT if people are not aware. 

 

* RBC only signed a ONE YEAR deal for 2024 with the PGAT to sponsor The Heritage and Canadian Open. So hurts if they pull out.  I think they stay personally but not at the asking price. 

 

RBC and others report It is Cost vs Return issue:  PGAT as we know asked/leveraged sponsors for alot more money to try and save them. The investment is just not there, the cap was hit vs what businesses are willing to pay.   

 

I and few others noted this over a YEAR +, asking how the PGAT thought this would work.  The math never showed it would work.  Everyone ingnored the business facts.   "Jay M makes it rain, that is why he is there... sponsors will come..!!!"     🙄

 

Hindsight is always 20/20 but this so clear to see.  HOW Jay and others could not see it beyond comprehension. OR they did and did not care? Or always planned to do a deal and get paid out?

 

One year deal with RBC for somet time had me wondering if there is some pressure on RBC from SA?  SA used RBC to do some deals for them in north america, still involved as I understand it.

 

RBC made BILLIONS on those deals with SA. Followed up by basically blitzing them 2 years ago on TV.   Business is Business.... take the moral high ground sure, but if you do you should never target one of your top clients in a "publc way" or at least do it behind closed doors.  

Edited June 5 by CDM

[Archimedes65]

I love the ‘Sky is Falling on the PGA Tour’ mantra from the LIV syncophants.  Meanwhile every single sponsor that’s left has been immediately replaced by a new one.  I mean they’re no EasyPost, but they’re still respectable companies.

[Archimedes65]

The Golf Channel is commemorating the one year anniversary of the announcement of the ‘LIV/PGA Tour Merger’, and watching tape of Jay Monahan speaking on CNBC that day is just as cringeworthy today as it was then.  Just a hot mess of nonsensical spin.