FedEx St Jude Championship 2022 (*** NO LIV REFERENCES/DISCUSSIONS ***)

[MtlJeff]

24 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

Play is over after the results are finalized on Sunday, not after the individual rounds. If errors are found after that, then the results would stand even with the error. 

 

When I first heard of the penalty, I thought 'oh no'. As it turns out, there was no real conspiracy. It was an obvious violation  by Cam. 

 

I guess it depends on perspective, I kinda look at the rounds like games of a NBA or MLB series. I guess just a different perspective but I understand where you're coming from

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I guess it depends on perspective, I kinda look at the rounds like games of a NBA or MLB series. I guess just a different perspective but I understand where you're coming from

I can see that point, but in those cases each game is final.  I can also see the point that a PGA tour tournament is 4 days long, so just because it's a new day, doesn't mean the penalty wouldn't impact the over-all results. If this sort of thing happened after the results had been posted and a winner crowned, well then it would be a real point of contention.

 

I am not a big fan of calling in penalties the day after, but if Patrick Reed did the same thing, would people still be upset?

[Hardluckster]

55 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I guess it depends on perspective, I kinda look at the rounds like games of a NBA or MLB series. I guess just a different perspective but I understand where you're coming from

I understand why you take that view but don't agree with it. 

 

To use the NBA analogy, let's take a hypothetical: Let's assume that an NBA 'game' was 4 days long, with only one quarter being played each day. A scoring error on the first day (in the first quarter) should be corrected if it is found before the game results are final - in my opinion, of course. 

 

Edit: As Krt22 pointed out above, the golf score is cumulative across all four days. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Hardluckster

[nsxguy]

18 hours ago, Hardluckster said:

That was not an obscure rule, though. Full relief is a rule which professional golfers should know. 

 

If really amazes me that some people who play and caddy professionally do not know the rules of golf - even simple ones. You'd think that they would make it a priority, especially since the rules are there to help in a lot of situations. 

 

I don't see that particular circumstance as that simple simply because "everyone" knows about  complete relief when it's "free".

 

I mean "everybody" knows when one takes FREE relief from a cart path (the most common example imo) one must take FULL relief, but from a penalty area, not so much.

 

At one time I was confused about "in or out". If any part of the ball is IN bounds the ball is in. If any part of the ball is touching the general area, as in this case, the ball ISN'T in if it's touching any part of the penalty area. It can be a little bit confusing.

 

Having said that, yes, a professional should know, his caddie should know, and if there's ANY question at all, call over an official. No excuse.

[Krt22]

What an implosion by JJ Spaun though. If he could carded an even par round, he would have ended up solo 3rd with a hefty 1M payday. Instead he slid all the way to T42 for 55k. Ouch

[Hardluckster]

10 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I don't see that particular circumstance as that simple simply because "everyone" knows about  complete relief when it's "free".

 

I mean "everybody" knows when one takes FREE relief from a cart path (the most common example imo) one must take FULL relief, but from a penalty area, not so much.

 

At one time I was confused about "in or out". If any part of the ball is IN bounds the ball is in. If any part of the ball is touching the general area, as in this case, the ball ISN'T in if it's touching any part of the penalty area. It can be a little bit confusing.

 

Having said that, yes, a professional should know, his caddie should know, and if there's ANY question at all, call over an official. No excuse.

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe it isn't quite as cut-and-dry as I first proposed. I can agree that the differences in OB and penalty area lines can be confusing. The same can be said, I suppose, for free relief versus relief from a hazard. 

 

I guess that I just think that if a hacker like me knows the rule, a professional golfer/caddy should also. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Hardluckster

[FriedEgg]

Hallelujah - now I don't have to hear about Zalatoris trying to get his first win ever AGAIN

[nsxguy]

16 hours ago, BobMorris said:

Bonehead move of the year by Straka. Will is looking at 4, he should have played for the middle of the green. Idiot.

 

I was thinking the same thing at the time, but then realized Straka likely didn't know Z's situation. He knew Z-s ball stayed up but not the fix Z was in.

 

Probably thought Will had an easy to mildly difficult chip and he (Straka) needed to hit a good shot just to tie - and possibly win of course.

[smashdn]

As far as I know there is no rule against carrying a copy of The Rules with you.  Maybe while waiting for the rules official to come over (and I understand in this situation he was not asked to) you flip to the rule you think applies and try and figure it out on your own?

[Potatohead]

48 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

I understand why you take that view but don't agree with it. 

 

To use the NBA analogy, let's take a hypothetical: Let's assume that an NBA 'game' was 4 days long, with only one quarter being played each day. A scoring error on the first day (in the first quarter) should be corrected if it is found before the game results are final - in my opinion, of course. 

 

Edit: As Krt22 pointed out above, the golf score is cumulative across all four days. 

 

This isn't really anything new. What year did Tiger donk it off the flag at 15 at Augusta and then get penalized the next day because he took the drop a few yards back... 2013 or something? 

 

I'll take the stance that everything before the tournament is actually over is fair game. Up until a few years ago in a situation like this Cam actually would have been dq'd. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Potatohead

[NMBob]

13 hours ago, grm24 said:

FWIW an on site rules official noticed the infraction when watching the round replay Saturday night.

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/08/14/cameron-smith-penalized-two-strokes-improper-ball-placement-fedex-st-jude-championship/

 

Gary Young, a PGA Tour rules official who is the chief referee of the FedEx St. Jude Championship, said an on-site rules official noticed the drop while watching the re-broadcast Saturday night.

 

what a bunch of clowns these guys are.   In the golf channel  tv interview , the title of the guy telling the story seemed to be the head head of  tournament officials speaking, who said the tournament rules committee had looked at it and decided to do nothing.   Then "someone" watching it later , called them.   

 

significant edit:  again, how on earth does simply another official on site, convince the guys who looked at it , that they need to do it again,  How is the  committee this bad?   This is different from tiger, his exact specific issue was not previously reviewed by the rules committee with no action/penalty previously decided. 

 

here is an old article when call ins were banned and a video review official was deemed to be the final decision maker

.https://golf.com/news/tournament-officials-will-no-longer-consider-rules-violations-phoned-in-by-tv-viewers-according-to-new-rule-beginning-jan-1-2/

 

this now also begs the question, is a rules official off site watching a replay at night on tv, a rules official or a tv viewer ?

Edited August 15, 2022 by NMBob

[cardia10]

1 hour ago, Potatohead said:

 

This isn't really anything new. What year did Tiger donk it off the flag at 15 at Augusta and then get penalized the next day because he took the drop a few yards back... 2013 or something? 

 

I'll take the stance that everything before the tournament is actually over is fair game. Up until a few years ago in a situation like this Cam actually would have been dq'd. 

 

 

Or the improper drop at Augusta by Tiger that got overlooked. Can't have the best ever DQ'd over signing an incorrect scorecard... The rules are selectively applied sadly as history has proven. 

[CasualLie]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

I was thinking the same thing at the time, but then realized Straka likely didn't know Z's situation. He knew Z-s ball stayed up but not the fix Z was in.

 

Probably thought Will had an easy to mildly difficult chip and he (Straka) needed to hit a good shot just to tie - and possibly win of course.

 

It was still a bonehead move.  Under the circumstances, you can't say it is a given Z gets up/down.  And if Straka hits middle of green his chance of making a birdie putt is not much less than than Z getting up/down.

 

At first I thought he must have been firing left of pin and pushed it, but nope, in the interview he fired right at the pin and blamed the wind for not doing what it was supposed to for coming up short.  

 

But hey, it's tough out there and playoffs with water everywhere must be very stressful.

[tiderider]

if he went at the pin, then it's a bonehead move ... yeah, 20/20 and all that for an armchair qb, but going at a pin tucked by the water when your opponent has an iffy situation? ...  you hit left 20 ft and take it from there ... 

3 hours ago, cardia10 said:

Or the improper drop at Augusta by Tiger that got overlooked. Can't have the best ever DQ'd over signing an incorrect scorecard... The rules are selectively applied sadly as history has proven. 

not sure it's "sadly" ... 

[tiderider]

6 hours ago, Krt22 said:

What an implosion by JJ Spaun though. If he could carded an even par round, he would have ended up solo 3rd with a hefty 1M payday. Instead he slid all the way to T42 for 55k. Ouch

that IS an ouch ... 

[cardia10]

34 minutes ago, tiderider said:

if he went at the pin, then it's a bonehead move ... yeah, 20/20 and all that for an armchair qb, but going at a pin tucked by the water when your opponent has an iffy situation? ...  you hit left 20 ft and take it from there ... 

not sure it's "sadly" ... 

Augusta said their place, their rules and with 100% video evidence, let Tiger slide. Same with DJ. Letting someone start a round with the prior days ruling hanging over someone happens in no other sport than golf and is more than absurd. 

[3whacker]

Straka is one of those streaky players who when firing on all cylinders he is going to make a ton of birdies and get a win like he did this year, but splashing one in the water also explains all the missed cuts since his win...Hard for a lot of these guys to not shoot at flags because they know if they get hot with the flat stick for 4 consecutive days they are set for a couple of years..just the way the TOUR has evolved

[tiderider]

47 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

Augusta said their place, their rules and with 100% video evidence, let Tiger slide. Same with DJ. Letting someone start a round with the prior days ruling hanging over someone happens in no other sport than golf and is more than absurd. 

Well, the dj thing is unique since it was during a round (if it’s the us open you’re referring to) … that was absurd to a special degree … 

[EastTNGolfer]

17 hours ago, syders said:

Nothing should be able to be assessed after the round. It’s a horrendous look for the PGA tour. 

Agree. Just more reason for me to cheer for the downfall of the PGA tour. This was just so ridiculous. It definitely doesn't grow the game of golf. Let common sense win for Christ sake. Unfortunately there is little of it to be found on tour.

[Hardluckster]

5 minutes ago, EastTNGolfer said:

Agree. Just more reason for me to cheer for the downfall of the PGA tour. This was just so ridiculous. It definitely doesn't grow the game of golf. Let common sense win for Christ sake. Unfortunately there is little of it to be found on tour.

So you don't think that golfers should be responsible for understanding and abiding by the rules of the game that they choose to play for a living?

[1t2golf]

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/08/15/will-zalatoris-rock-wall-playoff-fedex-st-jude-championship/

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by 1t2golf

[EastTNGolfer]

3 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

So you don't think that golfers should be responsible for understanding and abiding by the rules of the game that they choose to play for a living?

Well first of all I think it's an incredibly dumb rule. Second of all, the worst part of this is that it was assessed the next day. This isn't a good look for golf and it's not a good look for the PGA tour. 

[tiderider]

14 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

So you don't think that golfers should be responsible for understanding and abiding by the rules of the game that they choose to play for a living?

he's not saying that ... the rule was assessed the day after ... and they even saw it on tv when he did it and thought nothing of it since they assumed he knew the rule, and would therefore know his ball couldn't touch the line ... they only went back to it the next day after someone thought it might be on the line ... 

[Hardluckster]

2 minutes ago, tiderider said:

he's not saying that ... the rule was assessed the day after ... and they even saw it on tv when he did it and thought nothing of it since they assumed he knew the rule, and would therefore know his ball couldn't touch the line ... they only went back to it the next day after someone thought it might be on the line ... 

Well, I think that he was saying that - just maybe not in those words. He’s advocating for excusing a player from knowing and following the rules.  Cam Smith even agreed that the penalty was correct. 

[black bnr32]

I’d like to think that the watchful eye of your playing partners provide enough incentive to play by the rules.  Hence, I’d say the score could stand after the round without much risk of cheating.

[johnseg]

55 minutes ago, EastTNGolfer said:

Well first of all I think it's an incredibly dumb rule. Second of all, the worst part of this is that it was assessed the next day. This isn't a good look for golf and it's not a good look for the PGA tour. 

Unfortunately the PGA Tour (golf) has a long history of after the fact penalties, penalties called in from TV viewers, etc.

 

It is funny the way the players bend the rules all the time I am surprised he did not drop (roll) the ball into the hazard twice to be able to place the ball.

[NMBob]

58 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

So you don't think that golfers should be responsible for understanding and abiding by the rules of the game that they choose to play for a living?

 

That's not the issue.   (Although many many players and broadcasters don't know jack about the rules) 

 

Who said  if the TV review official and committee ruled on Saturday to investigate further then and award the penalty on Saturday,  that the  penalty on the same day should not happen?  No one. But that is not what happened.

 

  Now add to this the head official , who said on the Golf Channel broadcast tape,  that they had already looked at it once on Saturday and said no penalty at that time.    

[nsxguy]

17 hours ago, johnseg said:

It is funny the way the players bend the rules all the time I am surprised he did not drop (roll) the ball into the hazard twice to be able to place the ball.

 

I don't think I've seen the entire sequence, so I don't know how many times he dropped, but he DID exactly that.

 

Except that he (apparently ?) only dropped it only once, and it DID roll INTO the PA.

 

The issue is nether he nor his caddie realized it was in the PA and he should have dropped it a 2nd time - or if that was a 2nd drop, he should have placed it where the 2nd drop hit the ground.

 

And playing "by" the Rules is not "bending" the Rules.

 

 

17 hours ago, NMBob said:

Now add to this the head official , who said on the Golf Channel broadcast tape,  that they had already looked at it once on Saturday and said no penalty at that time.    

 

THIS is the part I'd like more clarity on.

 

From the pics I've seen the ball was CLEARLY touching the red line of the PA. As in CLEARLY, no possible doubt.

 

So if the officials on site looked at it THAT day, how on earth did they think all was OK and need some other official to "discover" it that night ?

 

I struggle trying to understand the scenario.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by nsxguy

[Hardluckster]

21 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

THIS is the part I'd like more clarity on.

 

From the pics I've seen the ball was CLEARLY touching the red line of the PA. As in CLEARLY, no possible doubt.

 

So if the officials on site looked at it THAT day, how on earth did they think all was OK and need"some other official to "discover" it that night ?

 

I struggle trying to understand the scenario.

I agree with this. 

[WhostherealSlimShady]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:40 AM, tatertot said:

 

That aged well ...

actually it did..two guys hacking it around who can't hit a green under pressure.