Got to hit the Titleist TSR driver

[playgolf111]

One simple question from a mid handicapper. SS around 90.

Do you really see a BIG DIFFERENT between the TSI2 and TSR2 Driver? Length, forgiveness?

 

[Audi A-Fore]

@sandshark - what’d you think was the diff between the Red Ventus and the TR Red Ventus?

 

I have a fitting tomorrow w/ a Titleist rep (weather permitting), so will see how they stack up against my current TSi3 w/ Red Ventus combo. 

[Carolina Golfer 2]

2 hours ago, playgolf111 said:

One simple question from a mid handicapper. SS around 90.

Do you really see a BIG DIFFERENT between the TSI2 and TSR2 Driver? Length, forgiveness?

 

Yes, yes and yes.  

[Clifford]

2 hours ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

Yes, yes and yes.  

can you tell us what the differences are? Extra length? dispersion?

Thanks

[nsxguy]

6 hours ago, playgolf111 said:

One simple question from a mid handicapper. SS around 90.

Do you really see a BIG DIFFERENT between the TSI2 and TSR2 Driver? Length, forgiveness?

 

 

 

 

Will you swing the TSR any faster ? If so, why ?

 

Will the face be hotter ? No.

 

MIGHT it be a bit more forgiving and/or give you slightly better launch characteristics ? Maybe. What are your launch characteristics with the TSi2 ?

 

Try it & see. 👍

[Carolina Golfer 2]

2 hours ago, Clifford said:

can you tell us what the differences are? Extra length? dispersion?

Thanks

I made a pretty in-depth post in the main TSR thread.   
 

But sure, I’m actually a couple mph slower than @playgolf111 and went from a TSi2 to the TSR2.  
 

i gained 5-7 moh ball speed, 12 to 15 yards of carry and 20 to 25 total yards.   Have a much tighter dispersion as well. 
 

Overall just better results.  The only area that hasn’t shown huge improvement is spin reduction.  But I’m going to try the 3 and 4 just to satisfy my curiosity.    The 4 coupe end up being a surprise.  The comvential wisdom says I don’t have the swing speed for it.   But listening to JJ Weesenbeek on a zoom call last week.  He said it has had some very good success in lowering spin and SS isn’t a prerequisite for the 4.  Especially in what they call the 3.5 meaning the weight in the rear port. 
 

 

[Leftyjoe89]

I have the 425 and rogue max st ls that I seem to switch back and forth with.  I’ll be giving the tsr a try and hoping it will kick both of them out of the bag.  The ls is definitely bias for me and so is the 425 so hoping for something more neutral 

[Audi A-Fore]

On 9/19/2022 at 9:32 AM, Clifford said:

has anyone with driver swingspeed between 96-100 mph hit these? No reviews with average joes, just 110+swingspeeds.

96-100 mph swinger here, I have a fitting in 5hr to hit them, will report back afterwards. 

 

For reference, I hit mid/high launch angles with low spin. I play the Tsi3 w/ Ventus Red 6S, 10* set to 10.75* to get the spin up to the range I need it. I hit that setup further with more ball speed than the Tsi2 in any setup by about 2-3mph.

 

My guess is that the TSR2 will be a contender and keep me in my needed spin ranges with probably 9-10* static loft. The TSR3, will probably require a similar setup as I have now, but again, we'll see in about 5hrs. 

 

[NoTalentLefty]

Best looking driver hands down. But I’ll stick with my Callaway Rogue ST MAX.

[sociojeje]

For a casual golfer like me (100-105), I really don't see much difference between drivers. One day I hit this brand slightly better and the other day another brand is slightly better. And drivers are becoming even more expensive. Unless someone can make a magical driver that can retain the same ball speed across face with any hitting angle, I guess I have to stop trying new ones.   But Tsr should feel great.... Tsi was the best feeling driver..

[TyNiles]

Wanted to come on here and give some feedback after having a "fitting" at Golf Galaxy. To be clear - the sales rep that I had was not the best but at this point I can basically fit myself and wanted to hit the new lineup anyways. I'm currently a 5 handicap with a driver SS of 100-105 on average with an aggressive transition from the top. Last few seasons, my driver has been the problem child and been the reason I can't get my handicap lower. My home course is not forgiving when you are offline with driver and I really need to focus on hitting more FIR next season if I want to bring my scores down. 

This year I have tried it all: Stealth, LTD, Rogue, and I just cannot settle on anything that I really like. My swing is a constant work in progress and has its issues, so its 99% me and 1% driver most days. 

I started with the 9* TSR2 w/ the new HZRDUS and I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. I have always been a "3" series player but there was a lot for me to like with the TSR2. As far as looks, you still know its the "2" model, but the gap has closed between that and the 3 now, which is a welcome change. As you'd expect, misses with the TSR2 launch higher and spin more than desired, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Was excellent on mishits - retained ball speed extremely well and not that far offline. I think this is the most important point in all of this, and it has been a theme with most all of the new drivers: the best swings are not that much different, but the new technology in all of these drivers saves mishits exceptionally well. 

I was pleasantly surprised with the HZRDUS, it had a little more feel than I remember other HZRDUS's having and felt decent on the load/unload. Really not a bad stock option since most of us will end up experimenting with other shafts anyways.

Moved to the TSR3 and spin and launch came down a bit, but mishits were definitely punished more - but still extremely playable. It looks excellent at address, but I was not a fan of that "TSR" logo at address; I much preferred the "triangle" that was used on anything prior to the TSi. Hitting the TSR3 felt like a slightly improved TSi3, which it basically is. 

They put the Tensei 1k Black in my hand and I actually loved it, but it felt extremely boardy to me. Not sure that I would want to trunk slam with that shaft without getting a few swings in first. Launched lower and spun less than the HZRDUS, and also seemed to help my dispersion as well. 

I went back and forth swapping these shafts out with the different heads and configurations and felt like I was splitting hairs - they were all similar enough that I could go with any combination and be happy. 

I play 100+ rounds a year and I could see a lot of value in the TSR2 on the days where I don't have my best stuff or I'm hungover/tired.etc. but also love the adjustment options of the 3. Picture 1 is TSR2 w/ HZRDUS and picture 2 is TSR3 w/ 1k Black. As always, your results may vary but I'm happy to answer any questions about them that I can!  

[Carolina Golfer 2]

1 hour ago, sociojeje said:

For a casual golfer like me (100-105), I really don't see much difference between drivers. One day I hit this brand slightly better and the other day another brand is slightly better. And drivers are becoming even more expensive. Unless someone can make a magical driver that can retain the same ball speed across face with any hitting angle, I guess I have to stop trying new ones.   But Tsr should feel great.... Tsi was the best feeling driver..

So totally assuming by your comment that one driver brand one driver antoher day from another brand, it's sounds like you haven't had a qualify fitting for any driver.   You call yourself a causal golfer, but your swing speed, you are above average for the casual golfer, and in fact above average for all golfers.    I bet if you were to spend the time and money for a true unbiased fitting you'd find the driver that best fits you...whether its a TSR or TaylorMade, Ping or whatever, that it woudl be far superior to the hit and miss drivers you are playing now. 

 

Just because you only play casually-whcih means different things to different people, doesn't mean you wouldn't benefit hugely from a fiting.  Something to seriously think about. 

[Tiptx1122]

23 minutes ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

So totally assuming by your comment that one driver brand one driver antoher day from another brand, it's sounds like you haven't had a qualify fitting for any driver.   You call yourself a causal golfer, but your swing speed, you are above average for the casual golfer, and in fact above average for all golfers.    I bet if you were to spend the time and money for a true unbiased fitting you'd find the driver that best fits you...whether its a TSR or TaylorMade, Ping or whatever, that it woudl be far superior to the hit and miss drivers you are playing now. 

 

Just because you only play casually-whcih means different things to different people, doesn't mean you wouldn't benefit hugely from a fiting.  Something to seriously think about. 

[sociojeje]

3 hours ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

So totally assuming by your comment that one driver brand one driver antoher day from another brand, it's sounds like you haven't had a qualify fitting for any driver.   You call yourself a causal golfer, but your swing speed, you are above average for the casual golfer, and in fact above average for all golfers.    I bet if you were to spend the time and money for a true unbiased fitting you'd find the driver that best fits you...whether its a TSR or TaylorMade, Ping or whatever, that it woudl be far superior to the hit and miss drivers you are playing now. 

 

Just because you only play casually-whcih means different things to different people, doesn't mean you wouldn't benefit hugely from a fiting.  Something to seriously think about. 

Thank you. In fact, I went through many professional fitting sessions. On that day, one driver was slightly better than the others. I picked it up (Callaway low spin head with ventus blue). Then, a few months later, I tried again and then Ping was slightly better than my gamer. It wasn't before. I had similar experiences in other sessions. One day, I hit high on my face. The other day, every hit was toey.. Well, sometimes a bit more random. During one session, I could see a winner. But then, sometimes my fitted gamer was often beat by a stock driver on a certain day. Trying once more a few days later, then my gamer was better... Wish my swing was more consistent. 

[Carolina Golfer 2]

1 hour ago, sociojeje said:

Thank you. In fact, I went through many professional fitting sessions. On that day, one driver was slightly better than the others. I picked it up (Callaway low spin head with ventus blue). Then, a few months later, I tried again and then Ping was slightly better than my gamer. It wasn't before. I had similar experiences in other sessions. One day, I hit high on my face. The other day, every hit was toey.. Well, sometimes a bit more random. During one session, I could see a winner. But then, sometimes my fitted gamer was often beat by a stock driver on a certain day. Trying once more a few days later, then my gamer was better... Wish my swing was more consistent. 

Ok. Cool.  Ceazy game isn’t it.  How things very not only from player to player but sometimes even compared to ourself. 
 

As I mentioned.  I did see a pretty good bump in speed and distance from my TSi2 to the TSR.  Maybe it wouldn’t be enough of a gain for some.   But hey I don’t have many vices, so club ho’ing meeps me entertained.  So why not 😬

[SwooshLT]

On 9/19/2022 at 3:09 PM, playgolf111 said:

One simple question from a mid handicapper. SS around 90.

Do you really see a BIG DIFFERENT between the TSI2 and TSR2 Driver? Length, forgiveness?

 

 

I'm old and slowing down .....tsi2 last year was solid , straight but spinny.... 

 

Immediately noticed the spin reduction but in same flight window......same loft and shaft.

 

I hit on monitor and took it out on course for a round so only a small sample.....10-15yd gain for me .

[Audi A-Fore]

On 9/19/2022 at 12:09 PM, playgolf111 said:

One simple question from a mid handicapper. SS around 90.

Do you really see a BIG DIFFERENT between the TSI2 and TSR2 Driver? Length, forgiveness?

 

I would say there is a noticeable jump in performance from TSI2 to TSR2. The ballspeeds I saw yesterday at my Titleist fitting were higher with the TSR2, also the ballspeeds were maintained across the face. 

 

Aesthetically, the TSR2 is "more 3-like" as best I as I can put it. More of a rounded pear shape that people like in Titleist drivers, sound and feel were much improved over the TSi2. 

[Clifford]

On 9/19/2022 at 9:05 PM, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

I made a pretty in-depth post in the main TSR thread.   
 

But sure, I’m actually a couple mph slower than @playgolf111 and went from a TSi2 to the TSR2.  
 

i gained 5-7 moh ball speed, 12 to 15 yards of carry and 20 to 25 total yards.   Have a much tighter dispersion as well. 
 

Overall just better results.  The only area that hasn’t shown huge improvement is spin reduction.  But I’m going to try the 3 and 4 just to satisfy my curiosity.    The 4 coupe end up being a surprise.  The comvential wisdom says I don’t have the swing speed for it.   But listening to JJ Weesenbeek on a zoom call last week.  He said it has had some very good success in lowering spin and SS isn’t a prerequisite for the 4.  Especially in what they call the 3.5 meaning the weight in the rear port. 
 

 

Thanks for the reply. If you shorten the shaft in the 2, it will lower spin but also hit it lower

[SwooshLT]

17 minutes ago, Audi A-Fore said:

I would say there is a noticeable jump in performance from TSI2 to TSR2. The ballspeeds I saw yesterday at my Titleist fitting were higher with the TSR2, also the ballspeeds were maintained across the face. 

 

Aesthetically, the TSR2 is "more 3-like" as best I as I can put it. More of a rounded pear shape that people like in Titleist drivers, sound and feel were much improved over the TSi2. 

 

This should be on a Poster sponsored by Titleist........description to a tee

[SwooshLT]

@Audi A-Fore @Carolina Golfer 2 I'm wondering if the gains we've seen applies higher to us in the modest swingspeed range? Ponder

[AvgSlicer]

Just picked up a TSR2 today coming from a Tsi3. Hated the look of the tsi2 which is why I went for the 3 even though I probably had no business playing it.

 

TSR2 is absolutely unreal. Very forgiving and tight dispersion. Ball speeds and distance seemed to be on par for me with the tsi3 (probably because I’m hitting Center more with the 2).
 

But where I saw biggest difference was the consistency when hitting out of the heel (my miss). Ball didn’t want to peel out to the right like it normally does. Actually helps it’s line and didn’t lose too much distance. Very impressed!

[Audi A-Fore]

22 hours ago, Audi A-Fore said:

96-100 mph swinger here, I have a fitting in 5hr to hit them, will report back afterwards. 

 

For reference, I hit mid/high launch angles with low spin. I play the Tsi3 w/ Ventus Red 6S, 10* set to 10.75* to get the spin up to the range I need it. I hit that setup further with more ball speed than the Tsi2 in any setup by about 2-3mph.

 

My guess is that the TSR2 will be a contender and keep me in my needed spin ranges with probably 9-10* static loft. The TSR3, will probably require a similar setup as I have now, but again, we'll see in about 5hrs. 

 

 

As promised, a writeup of my fitting Titleist experience yesterday. YMMV!!

 

Location/Conditions: TPC Harding Park, w/ Trackman, damp weather. Nick C. was a fantastic rep.

 

Fitting:

• I started out with some baseline shots w/ my TSi3 w/ Ventus Red 6S (10.75*). About what I expected and similar to what I had been fitted with when I bought it, although my spin would dip too low into the 1800-1900 range. That's my tendency, high launch, too-low spin. Accuracy is less my issue but I don't want to lose any of it (81% FIR in '22), I look to max out distance
• Moved onto the TSR3 10* in the A1 setting with my Ventus Red, showing similar results as my gamer
  • On my toe misses, my ballspeed and smash factor remained quite high. Very playable even on bad misses.
  • He added a heavier backweight (+4g) in an attempt to increase backspin but it threw off quite a bit. 
• Changed TSR3 10* with a few other shafts: stock HZRDUS Red (too loose), HZRDUS White - nothing better
• Changed to TSR2 10* with my Ventus Red, and a number of shafts.
  • Ballspeed and smash factor remained strong, on average just about the same as the TSR3 on the small sample set, which is a great thing
  • Higher than what I remember from my short stint with the TSI2, also higher on average than my TSI3.
  • The tendency for me was the left miss or a more pronounced draw vs. the TSR3 where we could shift the weight to the toe. 
  • Overall: great improvement IMO from the TSI2. Honestly, going into the fitting, I thought I was going to walk away with one of these due to spin. My strike pattern didn't reap the benefits of the more forgiving nature of the TSR2 (vs. the 3), that plus the ability to shift weight in the TSR3 to the toe was better for me. 
• Changed back to TSR3, but used different lofts through settings and tried the 11*
  • Spin range hovered around 2300 which is much more playable for me, carry yardage was consistently higher here by ~5y vs my gamer
  • Misses were less severe for me than the TSR2, which probably makes me an outlier.
  • Swapped to AD-IZ, I never got along with the AD-DI  for whatever reason. Also tried the Tensei Black. None of these worked for my swing, although they are great shafts.
  • Swapped to the AD UD and this is where the club really took off for my swing. Really stable through the hitting area, noticeable kick, and a great ballflight. It's a different feel, he stated it sits somewhere between the IZ and DI. I don't know anything about the shaft other than it had the tightest dispersion for me and how it felt to me yesterday.
  • Overall: this is the setup I ordered w/ the weight in T1, set at A1 hosel. It showed an appreciable difference in ballspeeds across the face and better launch and carry numbers versus my gamer, with no loss in accuracy. Not too far off my 10.75* TSI3 setup.

Observations:

• The TSR2 here is a real major step forward for Titleist, IMO. It's more "TSI3/TSR3-like" in all aspects (aesthetics, forgiveness, sound/feel, ballspeed), it should be great option for the masses. As I mentioned, I fully expected to walk away with one of these largely bc of the spin window I was anticipating. 
• The TSR3 is an incremental step forward vs. the TSI3, but the consistent ballspeed across the face does make it compelling to some people. Don't mess with success, right? 
• For some reason, the deeper, not as wide head of the TSR3 (and TSI3), suits my swing better as my strike tends to drift more vertically, than horizontally across the face.
• he delta in performance could really come down to just a better fit shaft for me. In theory, I could've bought the AD UD shaft for my TSI3 and been just as good. The Ventus Red maybe was a touch low now for me in launch, but the spin was definitely too low on average. 
• The two of these at this stage remind me of the old "983K v. 983E" days, but with these 2 current drivers performing WAY closer than most people realize. The people who loved the 983E swore by them, but I'd put the majority of players in the 983K (20%/80%, respectively??). The TSR3 and TSR2 are both way more playable and probably have a lot more overlap that may make the split more like 40/60 or in the real world (WRX ratio: 90/10!!). 

My decision:

• I got the TSR3 with the AD UD because it was the best for MY SWING (as evidenced by the 11* head!). My strike pattern is generally tighter than most with a miss shading towards the toe. Thus, I didn't really realize the advantages of the TSR2 forgiveness, but it did help me to be able to fine tune with the moveable weight. 
• I really dialed in with this setup, finding center strikes a bit more yesterday, with consistent smash factor around 1:48. I had higher overall ballspeed, with it averaging just under 4mph faster than my driver, peaking at +6mph on a ball here and there. The average gain I was seeing on carry is huge for my game, especially with the rise in peak height and ability to keep the spin window around 2300 +/-.

Disclaimer: My swing is a bit weird post ankle-injuries, especially compared to most 110+MPH swings here. I'm mid-90's, high launch, low spin. I'm the short knocker that keeps it in play off the tee and will chip/putt you to death. 

 

 

 

 

[Audi A-Fore]

5 hours ago, SwooshLT said:

@Audi A-Fore @Carolina Golfer 2 I'm wondering if the gains we've seen applies higher to us in the modest swingspeed range? Ponder

Yah, I should probably cross-post in Avg. Joe's eh? 🤔

[realitycheck]

On 9/20/2022 at 3:07 PM, sociojeje said:

For a casual golfer like me (100-105), I really don't see much difference between drivers. One day I hit this brand slightly better and the other day another brand is slightly better. And drivers are becoming even more expensive. Unless someone can make a magical driver that can retain the same ball speed across face with any hitting angle, I guess I have to stop trying new ones.   But Tsr should feel great.... Tsi was the best feeling driver..

Same...much of the fun has been taken away from upgrading, experimenting, etc.  The juice isn't worth the squeeze anymore.....

[Carolina Golfer 2]

On 9/21/2022 at 11:49 AM, SwooshLT said:

@Audi A-Fore @Carolina Golfer 2 I'm wondering if the gains we've seen applies higher to us in the modest swingspeed range? Ponder

You know I get where you're coming from thinking there is more room to go up when you are in the 80's and 90's vs in the higher range. 

 

But if you listen to some, I have heard in several of the popular releases over the past few years, only those with elite swing speed 110 mph+ will see any measurable gains.  But yet, I mentioned I saw gains in the 5 to7 mph range based on a mid 80's swing. 

 

So I guess all that means is if you work with a qualified fitter that has al lthe options, he will something that gets you gains.    I may have mentioned this in another post, and I know you were on the Titleist Zoom call last week.   One of he most interesting things I heard was when JJ mentioned  he can pretty much get any player to where he wants him to be with all 3 heads and different shafts.   I forget what the number of possible combinations was but wasn't it over 10,000 or somthing like between the surefit hosel settings, the 3 heads and the 7 or 8 shafts offered. 

 

 

[Audi A-Fore]

3 minutes ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

You know I get where you're coming from thinking there is more room to go up when you are in the 80's and 90's vs in the higher range. 

 

But if you listen to some, I have heard in several of the popular releases over the past few years, only those with elite swing speed 110 mph+ will see any measurable gains.  But yet, I mentioned I saw gains in the 5 to7 mph range based on a mid 80's swing. 

 

So I guess all that means is if you work with a qualified fitter that has al lthe options, he will something that gets you gains.    I may have mentioned this in another post, and I know you were on the Titleist Zoom call last week.   One of he most interesting things I heard was when JJ mentioned  he can pretty much get any player to where he wants him to be with all 3 heads and different shafts.   I forget what the number of possible combinations was but wasn't it over 10,000 or somthing like between the surefit hosel settings, the 3 heads and the 7 or 8 shafts offered. 

 

 

Yah, I'd agree. A proper fit, as in a professional one, will more than likely yield some gains for any level golfer. Like most here on WRX, I know a ton about launch/spin conditions and all that, at the very least more than the average player. Given unlimited access to a Flightscope and shaft choices, I could probably probably find the optimal setup, but I'm really confident that the fitting w/ the Titleist rep has shown some proper gains. I'm sure they could've found a TSR2 setup that worked too, but I'm really confident in what I was fitted to and ultimately ordered. 

[Carolina Golfer 2]

5 minutes ago, Audi A-Fore said:

Yah, I'd agree. A proper fit, as in a professional one, will more than likely yield some gains for any level golfer. Like most here on WRX, I know a ton about launch/spin conditions and all that, at the very least more than the average player. Given unlimited access to a Flightscope and shaft choices, I could probably probably find the optimal setup, but I'm really confident that the fitting w/ the Titleist rep has shown some proper gains. I'm sure they could've found a TSR2 setup that worked too, but I'm really confident in what I was fitted to and ultimately ordered. 

I just read your fitting post above.   Very well done and written.   I thnk you have found a winner as well based on the comments.   I am intriqued by the UB shaft, especially since you said it fits between the IZ and the DI, and I have both those as well as an XC 6S which I must have picked up in a moment of extreme overconfidence....Ha     I tried the DI in the TSR2 yesteerday, and it was really good.  I got a much higher flight than the the stock  HZRDUS Red 6.0 that I was fit for intiially.   Didn't have a great swing yesterday and no LM so can't give any real numbers on it, but I liked the what I saw of it in the air. 

 

 

[nsxguy]

6 hours ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

You know I get where you're coming from thinking there is more room to go up when you are in the 80's and 90's vs in the higher range. 

 

But if you listen to some, I have heard in several of the popular releases over the past few years, only those with elite swing speed 110 mph+ will see any measurable gains.  But yet, I mentioned I saw gains in the 5 to7 mph range based on a mid 80's swing. 

 

So I guess all that means is if you work with a qualified fitter that has al lthe options, he will something that gets you gains.    I may have mentioned this in another post, and I know you were on the Titleist Zoom call last week.   One of he most interesting things I heard was when JJ mentioned  he can pretty much get any player to where he wants him to be with all 3 heads and different shafts.   I forget what the number of possible combinations was but wasn't it over 10,000 or somthing like between the surefit hosel settings, the 3 heads and the 7 or 8 shafts offered. 

 

 

 

I was going to respond to your claims yesterday but I figured I'd drink the Kool-Aid and try these drivers myself first against my gamer for 3.5 years now; my Epic Flash SZ.

 

Results ?

 

 

 

Frankly, unless you were exceptionally ill fit for your previous TS2 (or was it TSi2 ? No matter) there is virtually no way for you to pick up 5-7 mph and 15 yards of carry because of the driver (head).

 

Max COR/CT has been reached by the manufacturers for some 16(?) YEARS or so and afai am aware no shaft will pick up 5-7 mph for you either.

 

Can you pick up consistency from your new combo ? Sure. Hit the center of the face more often ? Absolutely.

 

Pick up 5-7/15 yards ? Sorry, don't see it.

 

Would love to hear from the boys on this ( @Valtiel, @Howard_Jones, @Stuart_G

[Albatross Dreamer]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:07 PM, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

So totally assuming by your comment that one driver brand one driver antoher day from another brand, it's sounds like you haven't had a qualify fitting for any driver.   You call yourself a causal golfer, but your swing speed, you are above average for the casual golfer, and in fact above average for all golfers.    I bet if you were to spend the time and money for a true unbiased fitting you'd find the driver that best fits you...whether its a TSR or TaylorMade, Ping or whatever, that it woudl be far superior to the hit and miss drivers you are playing now. 

 

Just because you only play casually-whcih means different things to different people, doesn't mean you wouldn't benefit hugely from a fiting.  Something to seriously think about. 

I think what he was saying is that they're all pretty similar now, which seems to be mostly true as a general statement. Having hit the Rogue ST, TSi3, TSr, PXG, TM (not the stealth- couldn't hit that to save my life lol) they came out fairly similar. While there are slight differences that might make one option better than another as a whole, it seems to really be about finding the one that jells with you, whatever the reason for that may be. But we may disagree of course!

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

I was going to respond to your claims yesterday but I figured I'd drink the Kool-Aid and try these drivers myself first against my gamer for 3.5 years now; my Epic Flash SZ.

 

Results ?

 

 

 

Frankly, unless you were exceptionally ill fit for your previous TS2 (or was it TSi2 ? No matter) there is virtually no way for you to pick up 5-7 mph and 15 yards of carry because of the driver (head).

 

Max COR/CT has been reached by the manufacturers for some 16(?) YEARS or so and afai am aware no shaft will pick up 5-7 mph for you either.

 

Can you pick up consistency from your new combo ? Sure. Hit the center of the face more often ? Absolutely.

 

Pick up 5-7/15 yards ? Sorry, don't see it.

 

Would love to hear from the boys on this ( @Valtiel, @Howard_Jones, @Stuart_G

IMO the substantial gains can come from a few places, but only one can really be attributed to legit tech advancements at this point, with others being different fit related variables and then the player related ones. If you have a well fit modern driver that is being struck solidly with a fairly consistent delivery then I agree that the substantial gains basically can't happen, but with some small caveats. Regardless, increased ball speed can only come from either increased swing speed, better/more "centered" contact, or a change in delivery conditions. 

From the tech side, increased ball speed on mishits is definitely a thing, and I can see across a larger sample size how someone could see bigger gains from that. You might argue that the SLDR for example can keep up any modern driver if properly fit, and even if that is true with pure strikes, the SLDR is going to lag way behind most current offerings if those strikes aren't grouped on the head of a thumbtack. I could easily see a well fit higher MOI model like the TSi2 or TSR2 showing those types of substantial gains across that large sample size over a less forgiving head. 

That leads to the poor fit angle though with just about any driver that is incorrectly setup for the player appearing to lag way behind the shiny new model that is better set up. You'll almost always see noticeable gains there, but obviously that isn't 1:1. What people need from a fit standpoint can change over time as well, especially the high percentage that have the ole' steep over the top slice issue. Those can be complete wild cards because their delivery alone can cause wide variations in distance and ball speed. One day they can square it up and achieve good numbers and a strong flight, while other days they're leaving the face wide open and spinning it off the planet while losing 30+ yards. They do that long enough and it's off to get a new driver that doesn't suck like this one that slices too much, and all it takes is squaring up a couple with the new driver to see instant big gains. Bonus points if a savvy fitter sees the guy's swing and takes a low lofted head and cranks it shut to help him square up a few to get those gains. 

Along with all that comes the things we don't see, stuff like the actual sweet spot location of the head and whether that is best suited to a player's strike pattern. Someone with a slightly heel side CG driver that has a toe miss for example will likely see immediate ball speed gains from a more toe side CG driver, especially across a larger sample size. Then you have actual loft vs. printed loft and how much that can vary and the true specs of the club in terms of weights (static, swing, MOI) and how those can influence delivery and clubhead speed. 

ALL of that is to say that I want a print out of every variable accounted for both from the club standpoint and from the launch monitor data standpoint before I believe any meaningful gain claims. The bigger the claim, the more I can guarantee there is something that can explain most if not all of it that isn't marketing fairy dust.