Solo Rounds

[KenNorthIdaho]

I play a lot of golf!   About 150 rounds in our short season in North Idaho.  Most of my rounds are solo as I just get out and play.    I end up playing enough with other people to get a handicap but they never attest or sign a score card or even monitor my score.   It seems like playing with others is really a formality when it comes to handicap.   Golf is a sport of integrity and honor anyway.  We will see how my handicap ends up this year.  Last year it was a 4 but if I record my best solo rounds honestly it would be 0 or Plus 1 because I play so much on the same course an am bound to have good rounds.  I wonder how fair the system is.   It would seem to make more sense to trust the integrity of the player whether playing solo or not.   

[nsxguy]

4 hours ago, KenNorthIdaho said:

I play a lot of golf!   About 150 rounds in our short season in North Idaho.  Most of my rounds are solo as I just get out and play.    I end up playing enough with other people to get a handicap but they never attest or sign a score card or even monitor my score.   It seems like playing with others is really a formality when it comes to handicap.   Golf is a sport of integrity and honor anyway.  We will see how my handicap ends up this year.  Last year it was a 4 but if I record my best solo rounds honestly it would be 0 or Plus 1 because I play so much on the same course an am bound to have good rounds.  I wonder how fair the system is.   It would seem to make more sense to trust the integrity of the player whether playing solo or not.   

 

I don't think the integrity of the player is the issue in not allowing solo rounds to count. I think it's the lack of "pressure", whether you're otherwise playing for $, a tournament, or simply to beat your buddy.

 

But the system is fair because everyone else is doing the same thing.

 

As for "fair", as in does it truly provide as accurate a basis for competing against one or more others as possible,,,,,,,, I'm sure if you can come up with a better method the WHS will at least listen.

 

So you're not recording those low rounds.

 

Since you were playing solo, you're following the handicapping rules so yours is a legitimate handicap.

 

Good on ya mate ! 👍

 

P.S. Welcome to WRX.

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by nsxguy

[mark m]

Hello Ken,

 

Solo rounds have been discussed here numerous times - and you could try the search function to find those threads. 
 

But - you if could provide some scoring info that would help. 150 rounds is impressive. Did you compete in any competitive individual stroke play rounds last year? An example would be a stroke play club championship, or the like. If so, what were the differentials from those rounds?

 

Integrity in golf is a mix of responsibilities regarding your own effort and commitment to playing by the rules, but also “protecting the field” by attesting another’s score in competitions. (Did you pay attention?) And also keeping your friends honest in regards to their handicaps. 

[Hawkeye77]

It’s been this way for seven years. 

 

Why do people need to attest or sign your cards? Although with all the bits about how you are probably scratch or better “if only”  doubt this is even real. 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Hawkeye77

[ArtMBgolf]

Playing/pairing with strangers to post a round seems like a formality, since 
there is no enforcement of rules or verifying what gets posted.   Same with 
buddies who don't keep a Hdc.  
  
I have noticed for myself that sometimes if playing all alone, I can shoot a 
good round more often.   There are no distractions, sometimes no waiting and 
it's possible to take as long as desired on certain shots/putts, like read a putt
from all sides, because no use waiting on the next tee.  If nobody in front, you 
might get into a groove playing quickly.    My point is playing alone could lead 
to a lower Hdc than if playing in competition.         

[Augster]

That “integrity” goes both ways. The USGA trusts your “integrity” that you won’t post solo rounds, and will play by the rules to the best of your ability on postable rounds. 
 

The rules of handicapping are set forth by a ruling body to make competition among differently-abled golfers equitable. The way the system works best is that everyone follows the posting rules. 
 

They trust our “honor” and “integrity” to post scores legally. 

[davep043]

19 hours ago, KenNorthIdaho said:

I play a lot of golf!   About 150 rounds in our short season in North Idaho. 

So since the posting rule changes, you've played over 1000 rounds of golf.  Its time to get used to posting scores only when you play with someone else.

 

19 hours ago, KenNorthIdaho said:

Last year it was a 4 but if I record my best solo rounds honestly it would be 0 or Plus 1 because I play so much on the same course an am bound to have good rounds.

Handicaps are intended to equalize competition.  Competition implies playing with another person.  Its only logical that handicaps be based on scores played with another person, since if you compete you'll be playing with another person.  If you really do play differently when you're alone, is it "fair" to base your handicap on those scores?  

 

Separately, I believe that the change to disallow players to post solo scores in 2016 was the initial step towards uniting handicaps worldwide.  There was no place else in the world that allowed solo scores to be posted, and most are still more strict than we are in USGA areas.  I would love to see the USGA more towards their systems, instituting something to require posting of appropriate competition rounds, and to require pre-registration and attestation for posting of "casual"  rounds.

[IndyArcher]

I guess I don't even see what the point would be in posting solo, non-competitive rounds. Competing is a different mindset. Posting just any ordinary round by myself likely won't reflect how I focus and play in the midst of competition, so using the results from those low/no pressure rounds to form the handicap that I'll use to compete makes no sense. Some people perform better and focus more in competition, and some fall apart. Regardless, it is still likely to have at least some impact on how a person plays/scores. I'm not a great golfer, but I do focus more and tend to play at least marginally better when I'm competing, even if (which it almost always is) it is ONLY for fun and bragging rights. 

[Naptime]

I think the underlying issue is whether playing solo would bias your handicap by posting a higher gross number.  Mulligans and foot wedges and generous drops lower your score and actually hurt you so it’s not clear to me what advantage is gained.  So the perceived risk is sandbagging and the idea that playing with someone prevents sandbagging?  Not sure it works that way in actuality.  GHIN tags scores as home, away, and/or competition.  So clearly acceptable to post a non competition score.  

[MelloYello]

Ideally, everyone would play enough tournament rounds to eliminate the posting of anything that isn't a formal competition. 

 

That said, few golfers play in even a single stroke-play event, let alone multiple events per month as would be practical for handicap purposes. 

 

So the inclusion of non-competitive rounds that are none-the-less allowed because of the presence of a witness is there only because it has to be. 

 

As others have said, if you want to use the USGA handicapping method as a measure of personal skill, you can post whatever you want. If you wish to use it for competitive balancing, there are rules to keep it consistent for everyone. 

[Newby]

44 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

Ideally, everyone would play enough tournament rounds to eliminate the posting of anything that isn't a formal competition. 

 

That said, few golfers play in even a single stroke-play event, let alone multiple events per month as would be practical for handicap purposes. 

 

So the inclusion of non-competitive rounds that are none-the-less allowed because of the presence of a witness is there only because it has to be. 

 

As others have said, if you want to use the USGA handicapping method as a measure of personal skill, you can post whatever you want. If you wish to use it for competitive balancing, there are rules to keep it consistent for everyone. 

I think your comments are more appropriate to the US scene. I get the impression far more formal competition rounds are played in the RoW (Oz, Europe and particularly GB&I).

[MelloYello]

On 3/21/2023 at 12:09 PM, Newby said:

I think your comments are more appropriate to the US scene. I get the impression far more formal competition rounds are played in the RoW (Oz, Europe and particularly GB&I).

 

I'm not talking about competing with your buddies in money games. I do that every week, too. Everyone at clubs around the US does that, often multiple times per week. That's not "tournament golf." 

 

I'm talking formal competitions which are by definition organized by committees, clubs or other organizations and which thus require (expensive) entry fees.

 

It doesn't matter your nationality, recreational golfers aren't spending that kind of money on a weekly basis. That's what makes them recreational players. 

[Newby]

59 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

I'm not talking about competing with your buddies in money games. I do that every week, too. Everyone at clubs around the US does that, often multiple times per week. That's not "tournament golf." 

 

I'm talking formal competitions which are by definition organized by committees, clubs or other organizations and which thus require (expensive) entry fees.

 

It doesn't matter your nationality, recreational golfers aren't spending that kind of money on a weekly basis. That's what makes them recreational players. 

Over here most clubs will be running at least one low entry cost (eg < $5) formal competition every week. Certainly all clubs will run a 'Monthly Medal' and a Stableford every fortnight or so. My club has about 8 'Honour Board' competitions through the year, all of which cost £5 including a 2s club.

 

The term 'tournament' is rarely, if ever, used here. But I understand it used to be used in the US to refer to particular high level competitions which had a special status the the pre-WHS system.

[davep043]

4 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

I'm not talking about competing with your buddies in money games. I do that every week, too. Everyone at clubs around the US does that, often multiple times per week. That's not "tournament golf." 

 

I'm talking formal competitions which are by definition organized by committees, clubs or other organizations and which thus require (expensive) entry fees.

 

It doesn't matter your nationality, recreational golfers aren't spending that kind of money on a weekly basis. That's what makes them recreational players. 

@Newby points this out, I've come to learn that in other parts of the world, "formal competitions" are held several times a month, sometimes more than once a week.  It seems a kind of "chicken and egg" question.  Did these frequent competitions develop because of the handicap rules, or did the rules develop because competitions were easy available?  I don't know that answer.  I have a feeling that if the USGA changed their rules, many clubs would have more of those low-level competitions.

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, Newby said:

Over here most clubs will be running at least one low entry cost (eg < $5) formal competition every week. Certainly all clubs will run a 'Monthly Medal' and a Stableford every fortnight or so. My club has about 8 'Honour Board' competitions through the year, all of which cost £5 including a 2s club.

 

The term 'tournament' is rarely, if ever, used here. But I understand it used to be used in the US to refer to particular high level competitions which had a special status the the pre-WHS system.

 

One of my most fun days out in golf was a Gents Open at Kilmarnock Barassie that got me on a nice course for next to nothing and terrific company.  They figured out a handicap off of my index and good news - nobody could claim based on my front nine I was any kind of sandbagger, lol.  

[larrybud]

On 3/19/2023 at 12:51 PM, nsxguy said:

 

I don't think the integrity of the player is the issue in not allowing solo rounds to count. I think it's the lack of "pressure", whether you're otherwise playing for $, a tournament, or simply to beat your buddy.

 

How about when I play with some rando whose name I barely remember? What pressure is that?

[nsxguy]

4 hours ago, larrybud said:

How about when I play with some rando whose name I barely remember? What pressure is that?

 

OK, simply to beat your new buddy.

[Augster]

15 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

OK, simply to beat your new buddy.

Also not to look like a fool on every shot.
 

With other people around, we tend to try not to play asshat golf because, deep down, we want the rando to like us and we want to “impress” them. 
 

Playing a solo round there is no social pressure to perform. 

[DaveLeeNC]

5 minutes ago, Augster said:

Also not to look like a fool on every shot.
 

With other people around, we tend to try not to play asshat golf because, deep down, we want the rando to like us and we want to “impress” them. 
 

Playing a solo round there is no social pressure to perform. 

 I agree. Outside of competitive golf, the most pressure that I feel is with strangers. Much less with guys I know (whether or not we have a friendly game going). 

 

dave

[larrybud]

58 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

OK, simply to beat your new buddy.

The stranger and I who happened to get paired together have no idea what each other shot.

 

[nsxguy]

20 minutes ago, larrybud said:

The stranger and I who happened to get paired together have no idea what each other shot.

 

 

Nor was that the point. The point was that he was there.

 

How's this ? I have NO IDEA why. Maybe you can just send an email to the WHS ?  👍

[Oh Hi Carl]

I agree only to a point that there's pressure when playing with a rando.  Maybe a little.  But I think the more significant factor is that when you're playing with someone else, it is hard to get into the zone and play your best golf.  Too many interruptions and distractions.  I've had several rounds by myself when nothing interrupted my flow and I was able to play my best. But that doesn't reflect how I would play in competition, which is why we don't post those solo rounds.  

[RoyalMustang]

On 3/24/2023 at 6:24 PM, Oh Hi Carl said:

I agree only to a point that there's pressure when playing with a rando.  Maybe a little.  But I think the more significant factor is that when you're playing with someone else, it is hard to get into the zone and play your best golf.  Too many interruptions and distractions.  I've had several rounds by myself when nothing interrupted my flow and I was able to play my best. But that doesn't reflect how I would play in competition, which is why we don't post those solo rounds.  

 

I'm the opposite: I tend to score pretty well in tournament rounds. I've shot my 2 best scores cap-wise in the past year, out of probably 80 regular rounds and 10 tournaments. And they count double! I'm a 5.3 and my 1.2 and 1.8 rounds were both tournament rounds. It's easier to be focused and in the moment.  I don't just walk up to a ball and hit it: I think about what I am doing. I miss 2 footers when I play by myself but it doesn't happen in a tournament when I take my time. 

 

That said, I'm with some of the posters here. The solo requirement makes no sense to me. Sure, I might play better in tournaments vs solo when I know it doesn't count, but that's only because it doesn't count. If I wanted it to count, I could spend a few extra seconds thinking about that 2-footer and making sure I understood the break. If you have integrity, you are posting the right score whether in a group or solo. If you don't, then you are posting whatever sound good that day. And, if you really want to bump up your cap, misread some 5 footers. Nobody will know that your putter just didn't go cold. I've seen that intentionally from players leading up to a capped tournament.  

 

To me, this is a great example of the 6 words I hate most as a consultant after I ask a client why: the answer comes back as "we've always done it this way".  

Edited August 18, 2023 by RoyalMustang

[North Butte]

FWIW, based on the people I've known in UK (mostly England) I'm pretty sure golf clubs being oriented around ongoing weekly and monthly comps was true before anything like the modern handicap system came along. The CONGU system was designed to reflect the (club) golf culture, not vice versa.

 

 

[Newby]

Spot on.

[bcjim]

I have long thought and gone on record saying the UK/Euro scheme of hdcp management is superior... counting T scores, not counting social play.

 

The big problem here in the US is the lack of opportunities to record T scores. Especially if you are not a member of a CC. I think state golf associations should mandate some kind of fairly informal, opt-in weekly competition be made available at all courses that belong to the SGA.

[DaveLeeNC]

11 minutes ago, bcjim said:

I have long thought and gone on record saying the UK/Euro scheme of hdcp management is superior... counting T scores, not counting social play.

 

The big problem here in the US is the lack of opportunities to record T scores. Especially if you are not a member of a CC. I think state golf associations should mandate some kind of fairly informal, opt-in weekly competition be made available at all courses that belong to the SGA.

 

I belong to a club where such opportunities exist. I also play in a group of 12'ish guys once a week. About half of these guys play in enough regular club events that they could establish some kind of sensible index. The others do not and that behavior would not change. The group as a whole would find this most inconvenient and irritating with no obvious benefit to them (even if there might well be benefit to a minority of the club members). 

 

dave

[nsxguy]

9 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I'm the opposite: I tend to score pretty well in tournament rounds. I've shot my 2 best scores cap-wise in the past year, out of probably 80 regular rounds and 10 tournaments. And they count double! I'm a 5.3 and my 1.2 and 1.8 rounds were both tournament rounds. It's easier to be focused and in the moment.  I don't just walk up to a ball and hit it: I think about what I am doing. I miss 2 footers when I play by myself but it doesn't happen in a tournament when I take my time.

 

Sorry ?

[tatertot]

9 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I'm the opposite: I tend to score pretty well in tournament rounds. I've shot my 2 best scores cap-wise in the past year, out of probably 80 regular rounds and 10 tournaments. And they count double! I'm a 5.3 and my 1.2 and 1.8 rounds were both tournament rounds. It's easier to be focused and in the moment.  I don't just walk up to a ball and hit it: I think about what I am doing. I miss 2 footers when I play by myself but it doesn't happen in a tournament when I take my time. 

 

That said, I'm with some of the posters here. The solo requirement makes no sense to me. Sure, I might play better in tournaments vs solo when I know it doesn't count, but that's only because it doesn't count. If I wanted it to count, I could spend a few extra seconds thinking about that 2-footer and making sure I understood the break. If you have integrity, you are posting the right score whether in a group or solo. If you don't, then you are posting whatever sound good that day. And, if you really want to bump up your cap, misread some 5 footers. Nobody will know that your putter just didn't go cold. I've seen that intentionally from players leading up to a capped tournament.  

 

To me, this is a great example of the 6 words I hate most as a consultant after I ask a client why: the answer comes back as "we've always done it this way".  

Missing 2 footers in rounds that don't count because you aren't really trying is a form of unintentional sandbagging, and one reason why the handicapping system sucks.

[StudentGolfer4]

I understand the rule and I don’t post the 4-5 solo rounds a year. I try my best on every golf shot regardless of who I’m with and find the rule silly about no solo rounds pretty odd. 

 

I’m lucky enough to play with my 90 year old grandpa still. He tees off from about 200 yards, or 300 on par 5s, and rarely plays all 18 holes. The fact that I am allowed to post scores when he and I play together but not by myself has never set well with me. There’s zero competition being had and definitely no peer review as be no longer keeps score. 
 

Everything I hear about how golf is played overseas makes me with the American system was more like it. I agree with others that T scores should be emphasized more. I also know that as a golfer that doesn’t belong to a club and is only able to play 17-25 rounds a year I would be a guy that no longer has a handicap because I don’t play in tournaments (not counting member guest beat ball formats).