Playing with better players?

[bortass]

I was reading @RoyalMustang's thread about getting into the 70s consistently and one of the comments by @Kuuuch mentioned playing with better players. I've read that comment a number of times over the years and I guess my question is:

 

How does playing with better players help someone possibly improve?

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Seeing how they approach the game, read the greens,what shots they try to hit, etc.

Game also tends to flow better as they generally dont have annoying routines and hitting mulligans.

Also, bad shots can get to be contagious in a group.

[PracticeSwinger]

28 minutes ago, bortass said:

I was reading @RoyalMustang's thread about getting into the 70s consistently and one of the comments by @Kuuuch mentioned playing with better players. I've read that comment a number of times over the years and I guess my question is:

 

How does playing with better players help someone possibly improve?

 

 

First hand experience of 'greatness' (on any subject in life) usually offers a different perspective, and can be very valuable if one is smart enough to gather the information and see how to process it for themselves.

[MPStrat]

Playing with better players won’t make you a better player, but it will allow you to see what better players do. It’s up to you from there. 

[phizzy30]

I play with two guys that are + caps one who works for the USGA and the other who's one of my clients that plays on the Mackenzie Tour and they are on another level.  I've picked their brains as well.  I've learned quite a bit on course management from them.  Very little to do with technical swing mechanics though.  I also tend to play better when they're around as well because it helps me focus that much more.  It's embarrassing to play poorly and shoot 82 for example when they can shoot in the low 60's on any given day. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by phizzy30

[MelloYello]

It's humbling but it's also inspiring. 

 

I think seeing that mix of both supreme consistency as well as the occasional great show really drives home how much is left on the table in one's own game. 

 

Imagine you both start out with 3 pars and then you make your first bogey because, well, of course you do but on that same hole they flag their approach or drain some big putt for birdie and all of a sudden there's a 2-shot swing. You begin your march towards an over-par round and they're suddenly 1-under.

 

And of course, that sort of thing happens another X during the round resulting in you losing by a number of shots, LOL. 

 

It's important to see how the other half lives just so you know what's possible. While you may not be able to string together the good shots without making mistakes, the first step is often just seeing someone else do it. It has a lot of positive effects because people tend to mimic each other. You can glean a lot in terms of mentality and demeanor. 

 

It surely motivates me to chase what they've got. 

 

 

 

.

Edited June 29, 2023 by MelloYello

[gators78]

Summarizing a few main points I always come away with after playing with really good players.

 

1) How simple they keep everything, they stick to the bare essentials and don’t get bogged down with swing/technique/pressure/context clutter. There’s a reason the overused “one shot at a time” is mentioned after every single winner’s interview. Big key here though is simple =/= easy to do.

2) Technique on certain shots. Watching someone hit bunker shots, pitch shots, half wedges, or any shot that a specific technique is more or less required for that type of shot is really cool to see in person. 

3) Watching someone totally not caring about how low they’re going. Oh they’re 5 under? It’s just numbers on a piece of paper, on to my next shot. Really helps you get over that fear of going low.

4) Curve on the ballfight. When these players move it either only one direction, or their draws/fades curve under 10 yards, it’s a reminder I might need to neutralize or tighten some things up. 

[PhillipG78]

Playing with better players motivates you to up your game, also you learn what good players do that maybe you're not. I learned to stop going for hero shots when i hit a bad drive from playing with good golfers. 

[SNIPERBBB]

Just another thing to add too... Also note that they aren't hitting phenomenal shots all the time either. They can skank it around the course like any other hack out there. It just doesn't happen as often. 

[Jeri6gt]

When you play with better players you are not waiting to hit as much.

Normally they hit further so they are waiting for you.

That being said, all my best scores are when I play with better players.

[Soloman1]

If you’re talking about plus or elite players:

 

You’re trying to play chess, but many of them are trying to play checkers.

 

They have a bigger repertoire of short game shots than you.

 

They’re pin high more, and you’re short and right more.

 

You pick a club based on perfect contact, perfect swing and max distance you’ve hit it a couple of times.

 

They're happy to be middle of a green with a 5-iron; you’re trying to feather a high baby fade to a pin behind a bunker because you saw Tiger do it once on TV.

 

They understand that you only have to hit two good shots on any hole and you’ll score well. Run that through your organic computer.

 

They have a routine with pretty consistent timing from start to finish, you usually don’t.

 

They're more meticulous about their grip than you.

 

That’s probably enough for now.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Soloman1

[nitram]

Most of the time, you can learn something from someone better, especially if you listen more and talk less.

[phizzy30]

Just now, Jeri6gt said:

When you play with better players you are not waiting to hit as much.

Normally they hit further so they are waiting for you.

That being said, all my best scores are when I play with better players.

I don't know about that first statement of yours.  I've played with really good golfers that were painfully slow because their pre shot routines were ridiculous and/or they took forever to read and line up putts. 

[TourSpoon]

I love playing with better players. I recently joined a new club and finally got put into a group with 2 of the former club champions. I learned more about how to play the course in 4 hours than I would have learned in 10 rounds by myself. 

 

When I was younger and worked at a club, playing with the pros and visiting pros really puts you into a better mindset than playing with the local beer league. Learning strategy, how to hit certain shots, where to miss, when to pull the trigger, how to minimize damage, etc all get to be experienced first hand. 

[me05501]

I've noticed in golf and also in music that playing with better players can be really revealing.

 

My biggest takeaway has been that great players aren't magical. They're just doing the same things we're doing at a higher, more consistent level. They've put in a tremendous amount of time and set a higher standard for themselves, but they aren't playing a completely different game. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by me05501

[Boricua Golf]

For the most part I look at their mental approach, when shot don't end up as planned, it seems as if it don't bother them as much, yes upset, but then they go and hit a great shot to save Par or better, also, where they look when setting up for drives and approach shots, hitting "enough" club to get the correct distance, once i asked a +handicap, what is the most common mistake with high handicap amateurs, he stated a few things, mostly underclubbing, overswinging and flag hunting. He stated that unless you have the perfect number, he always goes towards the middle of the green on most approach shots and away from trouble on most tee shots (kind of duh) but we don't stick to those simple things...love playing with better players, my game responds to the pressure of not letting myself down and try to stay competitive.

[Pepperturbo]

Learn by watching people that are better at a given activity than you.  That doesn't mean absorbing their less attractive attributes; it means watch what they do that you want learn to do better, and emulate.

 

I've always preferred to play golf with guys that are much better at the game than me.  Recently, I been getting a bit loosey-goosey with my right arm, which was derogatorily affecting my ball striking.  I suspect that's the result of playing too much with mid-high cap golfer friends, who are sloppy about attention to details.  They don't care about such things.

 

Anyway a buddy is much younger, mini-tour + index player.  As we played I watched him, and noticed how tight his right arm was to his right side, during his turn in his backswing; when he reached the top and transitioned his right arm naturally fell into the slot, bringing the club inside to out.  During that round watching him, I was able to get my ball striking back on track.  Subtle observations like that can't be picked up from mid-high cap golfers. 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Louis_Posture]

3 hours ago, bortass said:

 

 

How does playing with better players help someone possibly improve?

 

 

 

If one pays attention he/she will learn much about address position and swing technique, choosing lines of play, club selection etc...

[alittleoverpar]

The main thing I've learned from playing with better players is how to manage your game.  They are masters at avoiding the double bogey.  Pay attention to what they do when they get out of position with a shot.  

[johnrobison]

The worse my playing partners are, the duller my focus is. I can realize my full potential for sharper focus, quieter mind, relaxed approach, etc. when my playing partners are much better.

[TourSpoon]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Subtle observations like that can't be picked up from mid-high cap golfers. 

This is so true. A few months ago I was having some trouble with pitching and I watched our young pro and saw his very deliberate tempo. I realized I was getting too quick and emulated his move just trying to feel the club. On my recent golf trip, my friend commented on my soft hands. 

[Haroputt]

For me I can Subconsciously able to absorb something about their swing that may work for me. I learn better by watching how better routine and how they hit the ball 

Also bonus is watching better putters on the green. Usually better putter have a nice touch. Ball roll at a speed that looks like it’s going in the cup Helps me confirm or rethink my read 

Bad putters with awful rolls look like there no chance to go in the hole and affects me negatively 

[bluedot]

6 hours ago, bortass said:

I was reading @RoyalMustang's thread about getting into the 70s consistently and one of the comments by @Kuuuch mentioned playing with better players. I've read that comment a number of times over the years and I guess my question is:

 

How does playing with better players help someone possibly improve?

 

 

Lots of great comments here; which ones apply to you depends on your particular situation.  Could be as simple as concentrating harder, could be course management, could be technique, and could be other stuff.

 

But the original premise is true; playing with better players, one way or another, helps you learn to play better golf.  It's by no means the only way to do that, but it's one of the ways.

[scooterhd2]

It simple things. You are on the tee with driver and they are waiting with a 5 iron. What do you know that I dont? What do you see that I dont? You proceed to hit driver into a fairway bunker. This is a short, tight par 4. Now they are 130 out hitting PW into the green. Easy par. You are fighting for bogey.

 

Look at the shot prep. They scope the flag on the par 3 and its 150 and you already have 150 club in hand. They are going over carry distance of the front bunker, pin placement, wind, is trouble left or right. They can easily hit 150 with different clubs, but what flight are we looking for, what spin are we looking for, where is the target line, where is the finish line, where do we want to miss? 

[tm3]

My favorite thing about playing with better players is watching them gag a shot or put together a bad round.

 

Makes me lighten up on myself.

[bortass]

Thanks for all of the great responses. It helped shed some light on it and pointed out that relativity matters. I'm familiar with the concept of wanting to play against better people in a competitive environment where you actively responding to an opponent. Golf doesn't fit that mold for me. I'm competing against myself. There's no one on the other side actively working against me like in volleyball or chess for example. Maybe if I were good enough to play competitive golf even just within the club level, this would have been more obvious.

 

Being good enough is the main component I picked up on. Almost everyone I play with is better than me but none of them are in the class of player that's been discussed and I think that's the key takeaway for me. Maybe someday I will get to play with a sub 5 index and what's been mentioned here will become more relevant. 

 

Have a good weekend!

[MattC555]

Most of my weekends are spent playing 4 ball with one of my bogey golfer friends.  We pair up high and low handicaps then play mostly straight up 4 ball.  The thought process and approach is blatantly different.  I'll steer my partner around the course best I can without it turning into a playing lesson.  I don't offer swing advice, but will give club and shot options.  We are all friends and comments are constantly made about how different they think about the game when paired in a cart with one of the low caps. 

 

Generally they don't follow a shot routine and ride emotional roller coasters while having too high of expectations.   

 

I'm someone who naturally plays to the level of my opponent, so I typically score better when playing directly against another low/+ cap.  My game suffers when I solely play with my high cap friends. 

[SNIPERBBB]

Another thing about playing with better players is that you don't generally get some of the inane "keep your head" down type tips. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by SNIPERBBB

[phizzy30]

14 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Another thing about playing with better players is that you don't generally get some of the inane "keep your head" down type tips. 

Henrik and Annika like your post. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by phizzy30

[Louis_Posture]

My regular skins game group of 12 to 32 players is a mix of handicaps ranging from +2 to  18.  Not paying attention to the club selection is a major fault I notice among higher caps. For example, from a deep rough lie or a severely sloped lie  a scratch player will usually choose a wedge or other short iron to get the ball back in position. The high caps should take note of this and do it instead of trying to play a fairway wood or other long shafted club from an out of position lie.

Another club selection issue I notice is that a scratch player will often choose more club for an iron shot approach, such as a 7-iron when if he really hammered a 9-iron it would likely reach the target. But higher cap amateurs usually choose the iron they need to hit their best just to reach the green, so they end up 10 to 20 yards short of the greens all day long.